Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: AmiDelf on May 28, 2007, 01:21:06 AM
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I think that PegasosIII, if it comes out .. should be promoted as the next high-end Amiga. That would be so cool. Showing the PC and MAC world, that Amiga is capable of playing HDTV stuff, playing heavy 3D stuff etc+++ the ultimate home computer.
EFIKA is all ok, but EFIKA is no power pegasos horse. Its a nice gateway to Amiga for the external audience, but will only sell when MorphOS 1.5(2.0) is out for it.
I hope that bbrv gives the power to the people in all areas. Both for the community AND those not knowing about Amiga.
You may ask why Ive wrote Amiga and Pegasos in the same sentence? Well, I see it as a Amiga computer in that it feels like it. Amiga is more and more a community name for me, rather than a hardware machine. Amiga is a symbol of the community keeping these red and blue alive.
Thanks for keeping Amiga alive! -everyone !
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Its sad to because I was one of many stating hey need make os4 work on the Peg as its good hardware. Now amiga has no hardware and well peg has no OS. I would love see this situation improve in any respect.
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@AmiDelf
Amiga is more and more a community name for me, rather than a hardware machine.
In that case, I see your Peg III and raise you AROS on a Dual Quadcore. Or something :lol:
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zephar123 wrote:
Its sad to because I was one of many stating hey need make os4 work on the Peg as its good hardware. Now amiga has no hardware and well peg has no OS. I would love see this situation improve in any respect.
It's a logical combination but I can't help feeling that the people needed to make it happen have too much mutual antipathy. I'd love to be proven wrong though. Unfortunately, even if I were, amiga inc would be busy wrapping it up in so much red tape (if you pardon the pun)...
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As usual - open source or die. It's the only way minority platforms stand a chance.
-- Peter
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As usual - open source or die. It's the only way minority platforms stand a chance.
Except every Amiga program that went open source has had no development continue with it, with the exception of AWeb, but thats more of a code cleanup than any major new feaetures.
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You can call "Amiga" what you like, it don't count for jack unless lawyers agree with you. :rtfm:
@ shoggoth
Only way? I can't believe you used the word "only", this is the computer market buddy. NEVER use absolutes. :lol:
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I really don't understand why so many Amigans pine for a PPC based platform. Is it just to be different?
Developing a modernised Amiga compatible OS seems to be enough of a challenge without the added headache of developing a custom hardware platform for it also. Why not take advantage of the x86's enormous marketshare, product range, unmatched desktop performance and commodity pricing?
The old arguments against x86 from back in the 80's and 90's don't apply anymore. For example: -
- 32-bit protected mode, which virtually every modern OS/app now operates under, is quite sane and comparable to other architectures.
- The AMD K5 pioneered an instruction decoding front-end where complex x86 instructions are decoded into simple micro-instructions that are handled by the "RISC like" execution units. This same technique was refined with the Pentium Pro (P6) and subsequent generations. Although instruction decoding logic had a high overhead initially, this now accounts for minimal overall die space in recent generations. Interestingly, other "RISC like" architectures have adopted similar approaches in recent years.
- Rename registers and caches are another technique designers have used to get around x86 architectural limitations. In fact this can provide more effective than having a large number of general purpose registers (another characteristic of "RISC like" designs).
- SIMD extensions have effectively replaced the archaic stack-based x87 floating point unit in almost all cases. SSE2/3 is a very good set of ISA extensions.
- Finally with x86-64 we have an excellent 64-bit implementation that addresses some of the other remaining architectural issues. The number of general-purpose registers is doubled from 8 to 16 (all 64-bit wide naturally). Incidentally, 16 registers seems to be an ideal compromise between having enough to perform most tasks quickly while still allowing reasonable context switching speeds. Support for some remaining "legacy" features have been removed such as virtual mode and segmented addressing.
AROS on x86 seems like the "ideal" solution for Amigans. An open source Amiga-like OS for the most powerful desktop hardware on the market. If only more developers would get behind it!
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IMHO if AROS proves anything it is that there's too little interest in an open source version of an Amiga like OS.
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i guess you could sell the pIII as the main computer, and efika as the media centre/mac mini equivalent thing
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Oli_hd wrote:
Except every Amiga program that went open source has had no development continue with it, with the exception of AWeb, but thats more of a code cleanup than any major new feaetures.
So the Amiga platform is different in this aspect compared to other platforms?
AROS is free, it's open, it's aims to be compatible with the OS3.9 API, and it's reached a very advanced state. It runs on non-exotic hardware. It doesn't need to be bundled with oddball hardware, and anyone can participate in the development.
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AROS is to Linux alike in thinking. I think that Amiga users are dedicated users. It means that they love to be a part of a community. AROS dosent create that community, it tries to open it and make the Amiga community as loose as the PC community.
I think that Genesi should really go for PegasosIII, no matter what. It would give Genesi so much respect. Dual core 2GHz PPC Amiga!
Gettings users to the Amiga side is hard enough. Genesi will do that with EFIKA and MorphOS 2.0 released for it. But when the new ones seeks for better speeds, PegasosIII should be there, providing everyone a fast and full 1080p HDTV ready system.
Come on bbrv! You can do this,.. If you work with the community as you say, you should do it.
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shoggoth wrote:
It runs on non-exotic hardware. It doesn't need to be bundled with oddball hardware, and anyone can participate in the development.
Then AROS clearly isn't aiming to be Amiga-like :-D
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IMHO if AROS proves anything it is that there's too little interest in an open source version of an Amiga like OS.
Which of course means closed source bolted onto specific hardware is doomed. Which is what has happened.
Dammy
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AROS is to Linux alike in thinking. I think that Amiga users are dedicated users. It means that they love to be a part of a community. AROS dosent create that community, it tries to open it and make the Amiga community as loose as the PC community.
AROS is in current active porting to EFIKA and x86_64 with a hope for ARM in the future. EFIKA maybe a winner for Genesi, however I don't see Peg3 going anywhere. If the desktop doesn't have bang:buck ratio of AMD64, you better have an amazing perk (like EFIKA) or show me a sub $500 notebook/subnotebook. Othewise your just wasting people's time.
As far as AROS not having a community, don't tell the folks on AROS-Exec.org (http://www.aros-exec.org) that. Else they will mock you for not having a clue.
Dammy
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@Dammy
Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate all the stuff you guys are doing but as you say on your own website you are short of developers. And open source is more about communities than closed source IMHO.
But you're right about the closed source Amiga like OS's; they are not going anywhere either...
It all boils down to this; there are too few Amigans left in a market that is heavily divided.
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@dammy
I selfishly wish that the AROS team wouldn't get side tracked with ports to EKIFA and other architectures (including x86_64 to some degree). I would love to see them focus on x86 native and Linux hosted and develop in a way that it can be ported to x86_64 down the track when it is really required.
The time spent porting could be better spent writing and improving device drivers. This would improve AROS's reach much more than creating ports to obscure platforms.
EFIKA may be a neat toy right now, but the fact is that PPC is going to be relevant only for embedded applications. The same thing happened to other once great RISC architectures like MIPS and ARM.
Actually I don't really see the interest in EFIKA. Aside than embedded applications (what it seems to have been designed for) the small form factor makes it neat as a media PC. But with only 400MHz/760 MIPS it doesn't have enough power to handle standard-def MPEG4 content let alone hi-def formats.
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AmiDelf wrote:
AROS is to Linux alike in thinking. I think that Amiga users are dedicated users. It means that they love to be a part of a community. AROS dosent create that community, it tries to open it and make the Amiga community as loose as the PC community.
No, they're creating a portable, open version of the AmigaOS3.9 API, enabling more people to use it.
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EvilGuy wrote:
shoggoth wrote:
It runs on non-exotic hardware. It doesn't need to be bundled with oddball hardware, and anyone can participate in the development.
Then AROS clearly isn't aiming to be Amiga-like :-D
Lol!!! :) How very true.
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Ranchu wrote:
@dammy
I selfishly wish that the AROS team wouldn't get side tracked with ports to EKIFA and other architectures (including x86_64 to some degree). I would love to see them focus on x86 native and Linux hosted and develop in a way that it can be ported to x86_64 down the track when it is really required.
The time spent porting could be better spent writing and improving device drivers. This would improve AROS's reach much more than creating ports to obscure platforms.
Actually I don't really see the interest in EFIKA. Aside than embedded applications (what it seems to have been designed for) the small form factor makes it neat as a media PC. But with only 400MHz/760 MIPS it doesn't have enough power to handle standard-def MPEG4 content let alone hi-def formats.
you see, if i had the student loan i'm getting in a while right now, i _might_ havve bought an efika thing to run a webcam for my front door/use it instead of a mini-itx board for some pointless project like a hi-fi in a zx spectrum or something...tbh i'd still probably go for a mini-itx board...but since i don't have the loan yet, i've only got about 7 x86 boxes lying about ready to run stuff...i hate linux, i find it obtrusive and pointless when xp works perfectly well for me, so that's why it's never going to be installed on my machines any time soon. i'd install aros just for fun, but from the skim reading i've done, it doesn't have a proper web browser, built in streamlined uae support (i.e. double click an adf file to run it...) or a particularly nice installer...so bleh to running that...if it did, then i'd have it dual booting for whenever i wanted to play amiga games...
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zephar123 wrote:
Now amiga has no hardware and well peg has no OS.
What makes you thnk the Peg has no OS? There are plenty Linux distros avaialble and most important MorphOS runs on the Peg.
Unfortunately the PegII is outdated and discontinued. The PegIII is not likely to appear as end user product in the near future. But there is the Efika which is perfectly ssupported by MorphOS 2.0 and yet the Efika runs Linux.
There are OSes for Peg & Efika: Linux and MorphOS.
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There are OSes for Peg & Efika: Linux and MorphOS.
and which of those two can I download for the EFIKA *RIGHT NOW* ?
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Linux, but you knew that, here is a link (http://www.efika.info/) and another (http://www.powerdeveloper.org/).