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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: ricco32097 on May 20, 2007, 05:52:19 PM

Title: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: ricco32097 on May 20, 2007, 05:52:19 PM
What kind of penalty would you get if you got caught downloading a couple of Amiga games? Superfrog, Elite and such.
I don't have anything illegal on my computer. E-Bay and other web sites does offer these games from time to time.
Has there been report of any cases lately of people getting fined for downloading Amiga games.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: uncharted on May 20, 2007, 06:00:12 PM
Quote

ricco32097 wrote:
What kind of penalty would you get if you got caught downloading a couple of Amiga games? Superfrog, Elite and such.
I don't have anything else illegal on my computer. E-Bay and other web sites does offer these games from time to time.
Has there been report of any cases lately of people getting fined for downloading Amiga games.


Not going to comment on the rest of the stuff (it's against T&C), but Superfrog (and others) is legally available for download at http://www.dream17.co.uk/downloads.php?cat=1
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: jkirk on May 21, 2007, 12:27:36 PM
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What kind of penalty would you get if you got caught downloading a couple of Amiga games?


you open yourself up to a lawsuit in which you will have to pay restitution. whether that happens or not depends on the company that owns the ip.

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E-Bay and other web sites does offer these games from time to time.


that is probably your best source just make sure the ones you are bidding on are not pirated.

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Has there been report of any cases lately of people getting fined for downloading Amiga games.


haven't heard of any but that does not mean they don't happen.

@uncharted
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(it's against T&C),


?? whatcha talkin about? asking questions is not against t&c(unless your question is where do i find pirated downloads.)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: ricco32097 on May 21, 2007, 12:34:24 PM
jkirk: Thanks for your response
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: uncharted on May 21, 2007, 01:48:34 PM
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jkirk wrote:

@uncharted
Quote
(it's against T&C),


?? whatcha talkin about? asking questions is not against t&c(unless your question is where do i find pirated downloads.)


Perhaps I'm being paranoid :crazy:, however, I was thinking more along the lines of No posting about illegal activities, as it's IMO basically asking whether it's worth doing a crime, and what the chances are of getting caught doing that crime.

With stupid copyright laws and bottom-feeding lawyers to enforce them, one can't be too careful IMHO.  I'd rather try to be helpful in a more legal way. :-)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: guru-666 on May 21, 2007, 03:55:59 PM
 not to mention that you will go straight to hell.  LOL

Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: ricco32097 on May 21, 2007, 03:58:04 PM
I guess my question should had been: 'Is Amiga software still under copyright?'
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: jkirk on May 21, 2007, 04:01:49 PM
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uncharted wrote:

Perhaps I'm being paranoid :crazy:, however, I was thinking more along the lines of No posting about illegal activities, as it's IMO basically asking whether it's worth doing a crime, and what the chances are of getting caught doing that crime.

With stupid copyright laws and bottom-feeding lawyers to enforce them, one can't be too careful IMHO.  I'd rather try to be helpful in a more legal way. :-)


i can understand you pov and yes it gives pause as to the answer.

technically this is not a crime and is not illegal. it instead unlawful(not supported by the law) and copyright infringement. a crime puts you in jail. copyright infringement siphons your pocketbook.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Piru on May 21, 2007, 04:05:21 PM
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Is Amiga software still under copyright?

Wikipedia: Copyright - How long copyright lasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#How_long_copyright_lasts)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: jkirk on May 21, 2007, 04:06:57 PM
Quote

ricco32097 wrote:
I guess my question should had been: 'Is Amiga software still under copyright?'


i guess the best way to answer is that it will never be out of copyright. as content comes up for expiration of copyright(mickey mouse springs to mind) the copyright holders petition to keep their copyright. with money under their belts they usually get their way and the smaller copyrights get extensions as a result. who knows when this will end.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 04:07:51 PM
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Piru wrote:
Quote
Is Amiga software still under copyright?

Wikipedia: Copyright - How long copyright lasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#How_long_copyright_lasts)


Still, so is that music you admitted to downloading on another thread and that apparently doesn't stop you.  Oh, the irony...   :-D
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Piru on May 21, 2007, 04:12:56 PM
@Darrin

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so is that music you admitted to downloading on another thread

What music? What thread?

Even if I was, the Finnish law says
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Anyone is allowed to copy music, movies, and television and radio broadcasts for their own private use. This is based on the Finnish Copyright Act, which allows published works to be copied without the author's permission. This type of copying is called "private copying."

In 1984, the Finnish Copyright Act was amended so that a "blank tape levy" was introduced to compensate private copying. Due to the European Union Copyright Directive the blank tape levy is now called "fair compensation for private copying." The purpose of fair compensation for private copying is to guarantee that when an EU Member State allows private copying, the creators and other right-owners will receive fair compensation.

source (http://www.hyvitysmaksu.fi/main/index.php?module=front&item=&lang=en)

Note that this does not mean that copyright would not apply. Of course it does. Also, this does not mean you would somehow be allowed to pirate computer programs.

Oh, I am sure the above does not apply to United States.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 04:22:58 PM
@ Piru:  I was joking about the hard time you gave me on a thread about a certain USB stack and another thread you recently posted in about students getting nailed for downloading MP3s.   ;-)

@ All:  Back to the subject of Amiga games, it is a problem worth mentioning as we need software to keep the system alive.  Little or no software is currently being developed for purchasing and anyone who buys a second hand Amiga will have a hard time finding software sold at retail.  Even Amiga Forever owners without a real Amiga need access to ADF files because an original Amiga floppy game is not going to work in their PC's floppy drive.

My personal opionion is that someone who wants a particular piece of software should first check the few Amiga stores still operating (Softhut, Amigakit, etc) and then check sites such as eBay.  I should think that if you actually own an original Amiga disk of a game then you cannot be prosecuted for downloading an ADF image of the same program.  Heaven knows how many of my original Amiga disks still work, and downloading ADF files would be my only solution to replace a corrupted game.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 04:26:51 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
@Darrin
Even if I was, the Finnish law says
Quote
Anyone is allowed to copy music, movies, and television and radio broadcasts for their own private use. This is based on the Finnish Copyright Act, which allows published works to be copied without the author's permission. This type of copying is called "private copying."

Note that this does not mean that copyright would not apply. Of course it does. Also, this does not mean you would somehow be allowed to pirate computer programs.

Oh, I am sure the above does not apply to United States.


Ah, so you're proud of the fact that you're countrymen are a bunch of music-copying pirates.  It's just Americans copying software that's disgusting.  I see...   ;-)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Piru on May 21, 2007, 04:27:52 PM
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Even Amiga Forever owners without a real Amiga need access to ADF files because an original Amiga floppy game is not going to work in their PC's floppy drive.


Reading Amiga Floppy Disks on PC (http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-118.html)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Piru on May 21, 2007, 04:30:46 PM
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Ah, so you're proud of the fact that you're countrymen are a bunch of music-copying pirates.

Yeah. We're bunch of liberals and commies and we're coming for you...

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It's just Americans copying software that's disgusting.

Well, DMCA is quite stupid, but fear not: EU's new equivalent is almost as bad.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 04:33:44 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
Quote
Even Amiga Forever owners without a real Amiga need access to ADF files because an original Amiga floppy game is not going to work in their PC's floppy drive.


Reading Amiga Floppy Disks on PC (http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-118.html)


OK, good point, but it's not exactly as simple as "inserting the disk", is it?  Your casual Amiga Forever purchaser will probably feel a bit confused, but at least he'll be able to play Ports of Call.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: uncharted on May 21, 2007, 04:35:30 PM
Quote

jkirk wrote:

technically this is not a crime and is not illegal. it instead unlawful(not supported by the law) and copyright infringement. a crime puts you in jail. copyright infringement siphons your pocketbook.


IIRC here in the UK it is a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment.  Wikipedia seems to back this up, however that doesn't necessarily mean anything. :-)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 04:36:31 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
Yeah. We're bunch of liberals and commies and we're coming for you...


And that's why so many Americans own 5 guns and no passport.  :-D

Quote
Well, DMCA is quite stupid, but fear not: EU's new equivalent is almost as bad.


I'm not familiar with the new one.  What could they possibly have done to make it worse?   :-o
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 04:42:14 PM
Quote
jkirk wrote:

technically this is not a crime and is not illegal. it instead unlawful(not supported by the law) and copyright infringement. a crime puts you in jail. copyright infringement siphons your pocketbook.


IIRC here in the UK it is a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment.  Wikipedia seems to back this up, however that doesn't necessarily mean anything. :-)[/quote]

Yep, being a crime is one thing, but being acrime that's enforced is something else.  If memory serves me right, the UK still has a few strange laws on it's books dating back many years.  A few choice ones are:

London Hackney cabs should always carry a bale of hay as feed for the horse (regardless of the fact that Hackney cabs now run on petrol).
It is illegal to beat your wife after 9pm in London (as it disturbs the neighbours)
It is illegal to walk a pig the wrong way down a one-way street (I assume goats and sheep are OK).
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: jkirk on May 21, 2007, 04:44:42 PM
Quote

uncharted wrote:
Quote

jkirk wrote:

technically this is not a crime and is not illegal. it instead unlawful(not supported by the law) and copyright infringement. a crime puts you in jail. copyright infringement siphons your pocketbook.


IIRC here in the UK it is a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment.  Wikipedia seems to back this up, however that doesn't necessarily mean anything. :-)



 :-o what!!!!

just remind me not to go there then. :crazy:
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: on May 21, 2007, 04:51:18 PM
The game Elite has also been made publicly available for free by its authors, Ian Bell and David Braben.

See Ian Bell's Elite pages here: http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: uncharted on May 21, 2007, 04:51:26 PM
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Darrin wrote:
If memory serves me right, the UK still has a few strange laws on it's books dating back many years.


I've some better ones from the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000

If you are asked by the authorities to hand over an encryption key and fail to do so (or provide evidence you no-longer have the key) - 2 Years imprisonment

Penalty for telling someone you have been asked for the key - 5 Years imprisonment

Oh, and the copyright laws are recent.
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Piru on May 21, 2007, 05:02:27 PM
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What could they possibly have done to make it worse?

A lot (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6893.cfm)
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: Darrin on May 21, 2007, 05:28:59 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:

A lot (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6893.cfm)


Damn!  Well, I'd be breaking the law right now.  I routinely copy DVDs from home onto my laptop so that I can watch them when I'm away on business (I'm away for a month at a time, and I don't want to carry the original DVDs with me).  I'm currently working my way through Season 2 of Babylon 5.

I also use it to watch out of region disks on my laptop.  My Laptop's drive is set for Region 2 and I can't find any files to reflash it as region free.  As a result, I used DVD Decrypter to copy the disk to the hard drive, strip the region code and then play it back.

So all of this would be illegal?!   :-(
Title: Re: Illegal Amiga software, what are the rules (US)
Post by: rkauer on May 22, 2007, 03:48:12 AM
Quote

Darrin wrote:
Damn!  Well, I'd be breaking the law right now.  I routinely copy DVDs from home onto my laptop so that I can watch them when I'm away on business (I'm away for a month at a time, and I don't want to carry the original DVDs with me).

I also use it to watch out of region disks on my laptop.  My Laptop's drive is set for Region 2 and I can't find any files to reflash it as region free.  As a result, I used DVD Decrypter to copy the disk to the hard drive, strip the region code and then play it back.

So all of this would be illegal?!   :-(


If you own the original disk and the copy's use is intended only for personal, no problem (if you COULD PROVE THIS).

 BTW: don't giveaway the copy, that's illegal in any place of the world (maybe not in some Asian countries, who knows).