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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: McVenco on May 10, 2007, 03:11:33 PM
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Found this a while ago:
http://www.theaircar.com
It almost sounds too good to be true, but reading through the website it could be a possible top-seller. Especially in the big cities I think.
I wouldn't buy one since I drive too much for my work to make this a good alternative, but if I live in a city with everything close by, I'd might buy one if the price was right (and when it's available of course).
Would you?
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Rumour had it that Karl once had a prototype vehicle that was propelled by compressed gases that were the product of a very strong curry. Alas, there was a defect in the 'gas-line' and a wayward cigarette butt from a passer-by ignited the whole gubbins.
It was then that he changed his name to Karlos :-P
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Actually x-ray...
You may be onto something there... Sprouts, preferably curried could be used to generate an alternative source of high octane biogas, which could then be pumped directly into a combustion chamber and instant propulsion!
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...but for a brief moment there was a glorius 8g acceleration, straight upwards :lol:
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X-ray wrote:
Rumour had it that Karl once had a prototype vehicle that was propelled by compressed gases that were the product of a very strong curry. Alas, there was a defect in the 'gas-line' and a wayward cigarette butt from a passer-by ignited the whole gubbins.
It was then that he changed his name to Karlos :-P
If that vehicle was a SUV, it could climb the mount Everest?
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But...good gods, would you want to actually drive *this* turd:
(http://www.motordeaire.com/Img/FurgoNaranja.jpg)
That's as pretty as a freshly clipped toenail!
Also the energy has to come from somewhere, so it'll still use electricity which is generated with fossil fuels or by nukeplants.
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Exactly. What's powering your compressor?
We already have electric cars, that's not where the innovation needs to be made.
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lead acid batteries are about 75% efficient and very heavy
nicads are lighter but still can fold much
if compressed air can store as much energy and be lighter this could be a good tech possibility
a couple years ago i hooked an air hose from my garage air compressor to a weed wacker engine (small 2 stroke) and gave it a spin and it took off and that was at 140 psi (10bar?)
i wonder how my motorcycle would run with a scuba tank supplying air
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Compressed air isn't that lightweight, especially when you are talking about 300 bar. That's 300x denser than usual (roughly 315 kg/m^3 at 20 Celcius), even before you get to the weight of the material needed to contian it. However, it said they used a form of carbon fibre for that.
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It says on the site (under the FAQ) that the car holds 90 m^3 (at 300bar), so that's ~92kg just for the compressed air itself. I think standard batteries are a good bit lighter.
On the plus side, it get's lighter as you expend it :-D
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you can also recharge it alot quicker.
as air heats as it is compressed the temps would be the limiting factor although carbon fiber tanks would be ok as long as the plastic liner can take it.
when i was a kid we had these toy cars that had a tank on them that you could use a little hand pump to fill, those things would move heck and gone faster than any battery powered rc as fast as a gas powered one but of course with just a hand pump they would run out of air pretty quickly
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i just did some searching to find battery pack weights for different vehicles.
most hybrids have a pack weight anywhere from 20-30kg up to around 100kg
fully electric cars have packs weighing anywhere from 100 to 500kg
fully electric cars with a range of 200km would have a pack closer to the 500kg range and be very slow to accelerate.
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fully electric cars with a range of 200km would have a pack closer to the 500kg range and be very slow to accelerate.
You obviously haven't seen the Tesla Roadster ;-)
That thing delivers more torque at 8000 rpm than most petrol engines do immediately after starting...
0-60 in about 4-5 seconds acceleration enough for you?
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Karlos wrote:
That thing delivers more torque at 8000 rpm than most petrol engines do immediately after starting...
Do you mean more torque from low revs than most petrol engines at 8000rpm? That would make more sense...
Electric motors can produce massive torque very low down in their rev range (why they tend to make excellent powerplants for locomotives for example) but will also rev very highly indeed because there is no reciprocating mass unlike in a petrol engine - unless of course you're talking about a Wankel (fnar) which has very reciprocating mass but low down torque is greatly reduced and usually requires a turbo charger to enhance the torque.
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I meant it delivers more torque at 8000 rpm that a typical petrol engine does at much lower rpm, or indeed at any rpm, if the following is to be believed:
(http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/torquegraph_v2.gif)
See for yourself (http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/performance.php)
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Karlos wrote:
You obviously haven't seen the Tesla Roadster ;-)
That thing delivers more torque at 8000 rpm than most petrol engines do immediately after starting...
0-60 in about 4-5 seconds acceleration enough for you?
i obviously have seen the tesla
it also has a lithium battery (very expensive)
its also a two seater right?
my comment wasnt that electric motors arent powerfull but that usually to give them decent range the pack has to be so big they cant accelerate very quickly. simple fact of physics electric cars wont acclerate or handle well when the battery weighs almost as much as the rest of the car
btw they dont state it on the site but the 200 mile range is probably at 40 to 45 mph
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Karlos wrote:
Compressed air isn't that lightweight, especially when you are talking about 300 bar. That's 300x denser than usual (roughly 315 kg/m^3 at 20 Celcius), even before you get to the weight of the material needed to contian it. However, it said they used a form of carbon fibre for that.
-edit-
It says on the site (under the FAQ) that the car holds 90 m^3 (at 300bar), so that's ~92kg just for the compressed air itself. I think standard batteries are a good bit lighter.
On the plus side, it get's lighter as you expend it :-D
absolutely, mate.
the big question is not how much energy, but the energy per kilogram or energy per litre. in terms of the fuel only, and not the storage, hydrogen gas is something like 135MJ/kg with the petrochemical fuels are around 45-50 MJ/kg. however, Hydrogen suffers horribly from lack of volumetric density - even when compressed. it also suffers from leakage due to the tiny molecule (smallest one possible!)
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Which leads us back to one other issue that we seem to have overlooked.
Cars are getting heavier all the time. Thanks to extra emissions control equipment, rigourous safety standards and the escalating list of optional extras, cars are much heavier today than they were 20 years ago - in some cases by as much as 75%.
A Golf GTI today might have double the power of it's original ancestor, but it's nearly double the weight. That the extra energy needed to propel the extra mass is not unduly at the expense of fuel economy speaks volumes about modern engine design.
In addition to new hybrid technologies and exotic fuels, we also need to pay attention to how we manufacture our cars. Bucking the trend, a Jaguar XJ saloon is actually lighter than it's predecessor by virtue of switching to aluminium instead of steel for the bodyshell.
There are inherent problems with aluminium; it's much harder to work with than steel, is softer, requires more energy to produce and is as a result costlier, but is a step in the right direction. Mass produced. composite bodied cars are also some way off, although some companies do use plastic (non load bearing) panels to reduce weight.
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KThunder wrote:
Karlos wrote:
You obviously haven't seen the Tesla Roadster ;-)
That thing delivers more torque at 8000 rpm than most petrol engines do immediately after starting...
0-60 in about 4-5 seconds acceleration enough for you?
i obviously have seen the tesla
it also has a lithium battery (very expensive)
its also a two seater right?
Indeed it is. And so obviously styled by lotus ;-)
btw they dont state it on the site but the 200 mile range is probably at 40 to 45 mph
They quote 200 miles between charges on a standard driving cycle (whatever that actually is). I strongly doubt it manages anything that if you are constantly testing out the torque...
You can say what you like about electic cars, but I'd love to test drive that model :-D
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i want an electric car too, it would need a range of about 50 at ~60mph
a two seater would be fine but it couldnt cost too much.
pulling alot of power quickly (to produce high torque) can kill batteries too. do it too often and the high recharge number cound they list will fall alot.
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A common argument against electric/hydro cars is that the battery has to be manufactured and charged, or the hydrogen produced, which itself uses electricity. However, the factory which manufactures the battery or produces the hydrogen can be powered by nuclear energy which is (apparrently) cleaner than fuel-burning power stations - assuming that the waste product is disposed of safely. Also, mains power to private properties can be produced using the same means, which means batteries can be charged more cleanly. Compare this with fuel-burning cars, which are impossible to fuel cleanly since they use a combustion engine.
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moto
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Flintstones style cars are the way forward.
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motorollin wrote:
A common argument against electric/hydro cars is that the battery has to be manufactured and charged, or the hydrogen produced, which itself uses electricity. However, the factory which manufactures the battery or produces the hydrogen can be powered by nuclear energy which is (apparrently) cleaner than fuel-burning power stations - assuming that the waste product is disposed of safely. Also, mains power to private properties can be produced using the same means, which means batteries can be charged more cleanly. Compare this with fuel-burning cars, which are impossible to fuel cleanly since they use a combustion engine.
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moto
a good chunk of the electricity in ny state now comes from hydroelectric and wind power i think that is the way forward for that.
cars and their engines are also rarely well maintained and operated. that effects gas millage and emissions.
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Turambar wrote:
Flintstones style cars are the way forward.
Especially given their total inability to steer normally...
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I just misread the thread title and thought it was about advanced feline transportation systems, possibly hovercraft... Glad to see I'm not too far off-topic here.
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...
a couple years ago i hooked an air hose from my garage air compressor to a weed wacker engine (small 2 stroke) and gave it a spin and it took off and that was at 140 psi (10bar?)
i wonder how my motorcycle would run with a scuba tank supplying air
A similar concept was invented about 200 years ago.
Just that it didn't use compressed air, but compressed, gaseous water (AKA steam):
the steam engine
Steam locomotives normally operate with a boiler pressure of 10-13 bar.
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meega wrote:
I just misread the thread title and thought it was about advanced feline transportation systems, possibly hovercraft... Glad to see I'm not too far off-topic here.
Heh! How bizarre... I did the same thing and had to do a double-take on it, wondering how the compressed air was fed into the cat! Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooooooooowwwwww! Boom! :crazy:
- Ali