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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / General => Topic started by: motorollin on May 03, 2007, 08:50:15 AM
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The company I work for was recently taken over. Prior to the takeover, a few members of the team I work in resigned. My new employers will not recruit replacements, so our team has shrunk from 8 to 4 people.
Effectively, our workload has doubled. We just can't keep up with the work coming in, and we're getting it in the neck from all directions. Our customers are unhappy because stuff is broken and we don't have time to fix it. Our managers are unhappy because we are failing to meet our targets. And somehow, this is our fault :roll:
Yesterday I was so stressed due to all of this that I was physically sick twice.
Their "solution" is to get temporary contractors in to "help" us. But they are more of a hinderance since they don't know anything about our bespoke apps, infrastructure, or even where the customers are in the building. By the time we have explained to them how to fix a problem we could have done it ourselves.
Add to this the fact that our pay review recently was pathetic. It barely outstripped inflation and no way reflected our increased workload.
Sorry to moan. But my employers are a bunch of c***s. It seems clear to me that they are trying to get rid of us by getting us to resign. But surely they can't treat us like this?
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moto
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what you wanna do is go see your doctor. get yerself signed off sick for stress.
either that, or meet with the managers and explain in no uncertain terms your feelings. you have to stand up for yourself sometimes !
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That first part of Agafaster's reply seems especially relevant, to me. Do you have a good GP? Three or four weeks of "enforced rest" will allow you to recharge, and give your employer cause for thought.
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Problem is that if I get signed off for stress then it fks things up for everyone else, who will then have to pick up my workload. I know I need to think about myself if it's making me (physically) ill, but the people I work with are my friends. I couldn't in good conscience do that to them :-(
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moto
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You have to think of yourself first, moto.
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Maybe you're right. I'll think about seeing my doctor, and in the mean time I'll pray for redundancy.
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moto
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:-)
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Isn't this what unions are for? And what would your company have to gain by getting you four fired? Wouldn't they have to invent the entire department from scratch?
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We do not have a union. I suspect the company which took us over already has staff who can do our job so we are now surplus to requirements. And it is better for them to "encourage" us to resign than to pay redundancy to get rid of us.
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moto
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Moto - I can relate to this, my old employer did nothing to support me but kept piling on the workload, expecting me to work a 60 hour week and NOT mess up under any circumstances. When the inevitible happened I was hauled over the coals.
The reason your team is shrinking is to save someone money, pure and simple. If your manager can turn round to the MD and say "I've reduced costs and maintained the output" then he/she will follow that up with a "how about a juicy bonus for me?" request.
As regards the company taking over, they have an obligation under Transfer of Undertakings legislation to continue your employment under the same terms and conditions as you were originally engaged to take on. Any change to these terms MUST be subject to due consultation process.
My advice to you is to contact your local citizen's advice bureau and make enquires about employment tribunals. The very threat of this is usually enough to snap any employer into line.
Don't what ever you do give in or back down. Good luck
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Sorry to hear you have also experienced this. Rubbish innit :-(
I heard today that my higher management have noticed that our output has dropped and are considering outsourcing our department. Hopefully that means redundancy.
Unfortunately I think they have met the TUPE requirements as my pay and benefits package has remained unchanged.
I hear what you're saying about not giving up. Sadly my manager (who was put in place by the company which took us over ) is not doing very much to resolve my issues. So I expect the problem will just continue until I leave in September to start Uni.
Before I leave I intent to take a backup of the database application I wrote for them (much of which was done in my own time, and was not part of my job description), and then destroy any copy left in the company.
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moto
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Before I leave I intent to take a backup of the database application I wrote for them (much of which was done in my own time, and was not part of my job description), and then destroy any copy left in the company.
I don't think that it would be a very good idea. They could drag you to court claiming that you "Vandalized" their property. I don't know what sort of project management and quality assurance steps your employer company follows, but it would be hard for you to prove that the parts of code and/or executables you destroyed, belonged to you and not your employer.
I used to think like that sometime ago. Then I thought, this kind of "revenge" won't make my life any better.
Currently I am working for a small (well, tiny) software business which has delussions of grandeur, while lacks ANY kind of direction and the management has complete lack of knowledge (but of course they think they know everythink). I'm gonna keep on building my vb.net and C# skills and after the summer I'm gonna quit. ;-)
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Van_M wrote:
I don't think that it would be a very good idea. They could drag you to court claiming that you "Vandalized" their property.
They would have to prove it.
Van_M wrote:
I don't know what sort of project management and quality assurance steps your employer company follows, but it would be hard for you to prove that the parts of code and/or executables you destroyed, belonged to you and not your employer.
Well, the app is a web-based asset register written in PHP/MySQL. It is running on a computer under my desk. There is no way for them to prove the code belongs to them.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Unfortunately I think they have met the TUPE requirements as my pay and benefits package has remained unchanged.
moto
Tupe doesn't just mean the pay and benefits package, it also refers to the working conditions also and the law has recently been changed to further workers rights.
Have a quick flick through the regs (Warning, 41 page PDF!)
http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf
I wouldn't do anything silly with the database as it'll make you look bad if anything goes toes up. Your contract of employment may by default contain a clause defaulting ownership of any intellectual property to your employer.
If you manager stands to be made redundant then chances are he/she has accepted their fate and won't fight. If they've made a deal behind the scenes to be moved to other projects then you've got a problem as part of their remit may well to be to ease the exit of the staff they don't want.
If you resign, you're excluding yourself from any redundancy offer so try not to lose your rag. Watch your back in case they try and pull a phoney disciplinary (that one happened to me once too), but to be brutal, the longer you hang on the more they have to pay to get rid of you.
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Agafaster wrote:
what you wanna do is go see your doctor. get yerself signed off sick for stress.
either that, or meet with the managers and explain in no uncertain terms your feelings. you have to stand up for yourself sometimes !
Yes, definitely. Make sure it says "work induced/related stress" on your sick note mind.
Also go to see a union and get some advice from them about your legal rights as an employee.
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motorollin wrote:
We do not have a union. I suspect the company which took us over already has staff who can do our job so we are now surplus to requirements. And it is better for them to "encourage" us to resign than to pay redundancy to get rid of us.
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moto
Your company does not have to recognise your union. You are legally entitled to be a member of a union though, and have the right to have a union rep represent you in meetings at work.
It might be worth adding that if 50% + one person who do a job that is the same then the company has to legally recognise the union.
4 programmers only you say? If three of you join then the company can do feck all about it and the union will take great pleasure in forcing the company to abide by employment laws to the letter. Recognition will be forced upon them in the courts if need be. :lol:
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Thanks for all the advice. I actually received an email today from a contracting agency letting me know about a vacancy. I've sent them my CV so hopefully I will be invited for an interview. I'll keep you posted :-)
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moto
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Having been in a similar situation many years ago, I feel for you dude. I was quite young and naive at the time so they basically walked all over me. I didn't have the knowledge or the Wontons to stand up for myself. Eventually I started to become ill quite often and I started having nightmares about work, it was at that point that I handed them my notice, it felt great.
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motorollin wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. I actually received an email today from a contracting agency letting me know about a vacancy. I've sent them my CV so hopefully I will be invited for an interview. I'll keep you posted :-)
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moto
that's really the best revenge.
The bottom line is that many employers are incompent boobs.
I am very picky about who I work with and that's one reason I'm not rich. :lol:
But I have been lucky enough to work with incredible people. They are out there and it's worth the time to find them. When you go for interviews they best way to handle that is to interview THEM to make sure THEY are worthy of YOU. seriously.
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cecilia wrote:
When you go for interviews they best way to handle that is to interview THEM to make sure THEY are worthy of YOU. seriously.
Well said! Most employers act as though they are doing you a favour by employing you. The fact is that they need YOU to earn their money for them. As you leave an interview say politely "Thanks, I'll let you know if I'm interested in the position" :pint:
A4000 Mad
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@A4K_Mad
Yes, despite being a lowly proletariat I will not bow to the whim of the bourgoisie overlord! :lol:
This situation is getting worse now. It's looking like contractors are being brought in on "long term contracts", though I seriously suspect that it is a surrepticious cross-training exercise so they can get rid of us (suits me, though I won't cooperate by training anybody!)
It's starting to affect our friendships too now. Two members of the team are not talking to each other, and we're all best friends :cry:
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moto
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@Moto
I understand exactly your frustration here. Our dev team has dwindled from a peak total of 12 people in 2 teams to 5 people in one team. Two of those will be gone within another week.
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A4000_Mad wrote:
cecilia wrote:
When you go for interviews they best way to handle that is to interview THEM to make sure THEY are worthy of YOU. seriously.
Well said! Most employers act as though they are doing you a favour by employing you. The fact is that they need YOU to earn their money for them. As you leave an interview say politely "Thanks, I'll let you know if I'm interested in the position" :pint:
'Cause that doesn't sound arrogant at all. Perhaps if you're so specialised that you're without competition in the field, that approach works.
Bottom line is for the majority of people, they have you by the balls because you need the money.
Good luck Moto!
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@ moto
Just wondering how things are now mate?
A4000 Mad
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cecilia wrote:
motorollin wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. I actually received an email today from a contracting agency letting me know about a vacancy. I've sent them my CV so hopefully I will be invited for an interview. I'll keep you posted :-)
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moto
that's really the best revenge.
The bottom line is that many employers are incompent boobs.
I am very picky about who I work with and that's one reason I'm not rich. :lol:
But I have been lucky enough to work with incredible people. They are out there and it's worth the time to find them. When you go for interviews they best way to handle that is to interview THEM to make sure THEY are worthy of YOU. seriously.
LOL! Exactly!
'twas for me a kinda natural to be curious whether the job's the right one for me, so, to figure out whether I want the job or not. It made the discussion alive, so to say. :-)
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Moto, you have my sympathy.
Long story short - been in similar situation, made me ill to the point of not being able to work for a while - and I swore I'd never go into a similar position.
Two years later I went to Uni, got an Engineering degree (graduated last summer) and am now in a good job with excellent employers (that's not to say there is no pressure and no problems, but the support is there if needed).
The lesson I learned is that no job is worth making yourself ill over - you are doing no favours to yourself, your employer, your customers or your colleagues by overworking to the point of burning out.
If your employer has made a strategic decision to cut staff at the expense of service then - and this sounds harsh - let the service levels drop. It's crap for your customers, and a bit demoralising for yourself and your colleagues - also it dents your professional pride, but it's the only way that strategic level management will realise that they can't just cut the staff and expect the rest of you to work double hard to keep things going.
A question: if you mananged to work your colelctive a55e5 off for the next year, to the point of all four of you burning out, but you managed to keep the service levels up - do you expect your managers would:
a) Say "Thanks guys, have a payrise, and we're increasing your team back up to 8 to take the strain off you. aLso we appreaciate the effort you've put in - have an extra week's holiday - it's on us!"
or
b) Say "Four staff can adequately cope with the workload therefore there is no need to spend money on more staff."
I would STRONGLY recommend the four of you have a meeting outside of work to discuss the situation and how you are going to deal with it. If you do not talk about it, the most likely thing is that all of you will feel under pressure to work as hard as possible so as not to cause hardship to your colleagues. This will just create stress (already experienced by yourself) and resentment (experienced by your two colleagues falling out).
PS - I ended up walking out, feeling crap about leaving my colleagues in the lurch, but knowing that if I'd stayed I would have become seriously ill.
Best of luck Moto - I hope it works out for you, but I wouldn't expect any help from the upper echelons.
Regards
Rich
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Sound advice from Boot_WB, especially the letting drop of the service levels.
Everyone you speak to to these days seems to be in a similar positon to varying degrees as yourself.
Yet all these companies seem to be making bigger profits each year and the top end management seem to get bigger bonuses each year.
I suspect the management on the lower rungs are not quick to pass on the realities of the situation up the chain.
Probably because they are either under pressure themselves, want to look good by not making waves or appearing weak.
Well that's their problem and also their fault that the workers below are suffering.
Let them rant and rave, it will be their heads on the block for letting the situation deteriorate.
Being on the receiving end might teach some of them a bit more about the benefits of soladarity.