Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Piru on April 30, 2007, 12:37:03 PM
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case number 2:2007cv00631 (http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-wawdce/case_no-2:2007cv00631/case_id-143245/)
::Update::
The complaint claims "breach of contract, trademark infringement, trademark dilution, unfair competition, replevin and declaratory relief".
::Update 2::
http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/ (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/) has some legal docs. Specifically decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf)
::Update 3::
Hyperion has reponded with a press release (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/news/2007-05-01)
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LOL
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So this was the announcement for Monday :)
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Ok.. so now they finally have HyperionOS4 ... it's been long time coming, but IMHO this settles it.
Me? .. I need :lotsacoffee: and :popcorn:
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@Piru
Try to post that link over at Amigans.net too
and see if it gets *EDIT* removed from the front page
*EDIT* as the recent one which concerned the Amiga OS licence agreement
change.
Anyway, this is bad news. :-x
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JoannaK wrote:
Ok.. so now they finally have HyperionOS4 ... it's been long time coming, but IMHO this settles it.
Me? .. I need :lotsacoffee: and :popcorn:
No I don't think so, the "HyperionOS" still builds on Amiga Inc IP. It always have, and it always will, that can *never* change.
All Hyperion has now is a "NoOS" and a lawsuit that they will have to answer to with their personal economy (like their personal bank assets, their cars, houses, etc) since it is a "VOF" company.
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In other news...
"Maize prices reached a new high following news in the Amiga community which caused a dramatic increase in popcorn consumption".
:popcorn:
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Does that mean Ben can now show us how Uber of a lawyer he is? Oh wait, US court, has to be a real lawyer. :popcorn:
Dammy
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This is really unbelievable. Why can't those *gentlemen* at Amiga, who obviously couldn't competently code a "hello world" demo, just go away and leave the OS development and by rights, this platform's future to competent people?
It is interesting though if their suit is only for trademark infringement, rather than breach of contract or copyright. That would seem to indicate Amiga is desperate indeed and has already lost on the merits of trying to wrest OS4 from Hyperion. I suggest that the real plan of OS authors is to not call the OS by any trademarked Amiga name, rather, everyone will know it is an Amiga-derivative but Amiga, Inc. won't be able to get their incompetent greedy-Anywhere(tm) paws on it. There is precedent for this in the Linux model. My theory is that the kernel is already sufficiently divorced from the old 68K Exec that this is new technology. Amiga, Inc.'s prior breach by not fulfilling financial obligations during development already allow Hyperion not to turn over their work product. It's just a question now of whether Amiga,Inc. can restrain Hyperion from selling their new technology into the marketplace. It would seem they (Hyperion) have a very good case if, for example: 1) there is truly no trademark (name) infringement (e.g. Hyperion could call their product something else), 2) the new kernel is unique and sufficiently divorced from the early IP (this is a technical issue and relates also/more to patent and copyright), 3) any infringement is trivial and outweighed by the benefit in releasing to the consumer, 4) even assuming an infringement exists, Hyperion can argue it was they who were constructively first and/or maintained a presence in the marketplace (anyone following this can see how Inc.'s silence and constant disappearing/re-appearing act hurts their case). I, for one, am pulling for the Belgians!
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:popcorn: :-D
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To all the blind name followers:
I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
:roflmao:
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So is OS4 final illegal now?
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I dont get it, if Hyperion were in breach of the trademark then wouldnt you need to sue them in their own country or at least in the country where the breach took place?
Does Amiga even own the Amiga trademarks in Germany? (It is Germany where Hyperion are based right?)
And as they are not selling it yet all Amiga could sue for is the Amiga logo on the OS4 website, hyperions website and press releases.
Either way this is so not going to help Amiga Incs PR
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Just great. We can't work it out as adults, so......
Any one have any more details? To read the case summary you have to have a log in for that site.
Plaz
(Buying more stock in popcorn companies)
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:pissed: Will this cr*p never end????
I sincerely hope Hyperion come out on top.
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dammy wrote:
Does that mean Ben can now show us how Uber of a lawyer he is? Oh wait, US court, has to be a real lawyer. :popcorn:
Dammy
Hasn't he already showed this? Wasn't he part of producing the "Über contract" in the first place? And according to Bill McEwen, he played a role in the buy-back agreement between Amiga Inc and Hyperion back in 2003. So I think he has surely proved himself to be way more skilled than "just a legal clerk" (at the time a very controversial quote from BBRV), right?
(http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/toplawyer.jpg) (http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/)
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Argus: "Competent" ??? Who??? Seriously :-P
This discussion only makes me wonder how those battle lines will be from this day on.. HyperionOS followers VS Amiga Name team ...
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I dont get it, if Hyperion were in breach of the trademark then wouldnt you need to sue them in their own country or at least in the country where the breach took place?
AI issued the contract, AI is a US corp, it goes to US courts. Now if someone in Germany was harmed by buying a A1, it would be in German courts.
Dammy
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It is interesting though if their suit is only for trademark infringement, rather than breach of contract or copyright. That would seem to indicate Amiga is desperate indeed and has already lost on the merits of trying to wrest OS4 from Hyperion.
One thing does not exclude other things though. There could (and probably will) be more lawsuits.
For instance, wait and see what happens when Hyperion starts selling OS4-final CD's through their new world-wide distributor Acube. Then it won't be only a question of "trademark infringement" anymore...
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(http://koft.net/pix/crack.png)
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cv643d wrote:
So is OS4 final illegal now?
Only if it comes from Hyperion, I'd say.
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Argus wrote:
It is interesting though if their suit is only for trademark infringement, rather than breach of contract or copyright.
The US legal code in question covers all kinds if stuff, IP etc...
This kind of reminds me of a legal situation I've seen before whilst working on digital re-mastering. We have the curious situation of the film before the clean-up being the property of whoever holds the rights, afterwards however the digitally restored version is copy of whoever re-mastered it but they can do nothing with it because they own no Original rights. The nice clean version therefore is unusable untill everyone gets paid and the re-mastering company then gives consent to the original rights holder to publish/broadcast etc.
In the case I saw the original rights holder (a well known distributor of hong kong movies who shall remain nameless) refused to pay for the work (claiming they had run out of cash), we never got paid for the work and the nice clean copy of the movie NEVER SAW THE LIGHT OF DAY!!!
The point being this whole AInc./Hyperion situation could be (probably is) a lot more messy but the results could be the same if not resolved..........aaaaarrrrrrggh :madashell:
....and all I whant is a nice new Amiga with OS4.
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I want to nominate Bill MC to the worst imitator of BBRV. A snippet from the nomination: "Although he has shown the same lack of ethics [as BBRV] it was carried out with ten times less business intelligence."
Living in this Amiga world makes one become sarcastic...
greets,
Staf.
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So now we have:
-Pegasos users
-Classic Amiga users who do not care about newschool A1 or OS4
-PPC Amiga users who is on Hyperions side
-PPC Amiga users who is on Amiga.inc side
-Amithlon users
-Winuae/UAE users
-AROS users
Thanks Amiga.inc!
Edit
Updated list
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cv643d wrote:
So now we have:
-Pegasos users
-Classic Amiga users who do not care about newschool A1 or OS4
-PPC Amiga users who is on Hyperions side
-PPC Amiga users who is on Amiga.inc side
Thanks Amiga.inc!
You forgot AROS.
Staf.
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Hang on, didn't AInc *ask* Hyp to write OS4? And now they're suing them? Why?
--
moto
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Who in the right mind believes and supports Amiga Inc. ??
Worst copmpany ever.
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@motorollin
Because evrybody is bad, except Amiga Inc.
No, really. They said they issued the buyback clause,
and Hyperion did not agree. Hyperion tried to release
OS4 on Acubes hardware without Ainc's permisson therefore
the lawsuit.
That is the simpliest explanation I think of.
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Hyperion gets whats coming. Any company that even thinks about touching Amiga deserves to go out of business. Every company that has touched amiga got burned. The floor is littered with the rotting corpses of orgs chewed up and spit out by the specter of amiga.
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Not Genesi aparently...
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This could a great day to reopen ANN.lu !
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Anyone think that we get some info on the hardware this week ? *LOL* :popcorn:
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Can anyone tell me what that buyback-clause was exactly?
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Quote:
cv643d wrote:
So now we have:
-Pegasos users
-Classic Amiga users who do not care about newschool A1 or OS4
-PPC Amiga users who is on Hyperions side
-PPC Amiga users who is on Amiga.inc side
Thanks Amiga.inc!
You forgot AROS.
Staf.
Reply
You can also add Amithlon and UAE (E-UAE, WinUAE)>
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This is really unbelievable. Why can't those *gentlemen* at Amiga, who obviously couldn't competently code a "hello world" demo, just go away and leave the OS development and by rights, this platform's future to competent people?
It was Hyperion who came begging to use the Amiga name. I've never been able to understand why they wanted to call OS4 "Amiga" in the first place - I guess the name has a certain appeal to rabid BAFs.
The honorable thing for Hyperion to have done would have been to go off and write the OS on their own, call it HypeOS, and bill it as Amiga-like. But no, they had to be Teh TRu3 AmiGa!!!11 Which is even funnier when you consider they had to write all the code from scratch anyway.
Don't take me wrong, I'm no AInc. booster. I just happen to think that both companies involved in the suit are scummy.
I'll take that popcorn now....
:-)
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Can anyone tell me what that buyback-clause was exactly?
LINK (http://www.binaryriot.org/cache/os4contractdraft/)
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krize wrote:
Who in the right mind believes and supports Amiga Inc. ??
Worst copmpany ever.
Amigans.net it seems, they delete threads after thread when this subject is envoiced
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Edit: Removed random tinfoil hat theory. :-D
Personally I think this will be the final nail in the OS4 coffin.
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motorollin wrote:
Hang on, didn't AInc *ask* Hyp to write OS4? And now they're suing them? Why?
--
moto
'cause they (Amiga Inc) are a bunch of shyster arseholes?
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Perhaps Amiga India will develop the sourcecode into OS4-Amiga.inc
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cv643d wrote:
So now we have:
-Pegasos users
-Classic Amiga users who do not care about newschool A1 or OS4
-PPC Amiga users who is on Hyperions side
-PPC Amiga users who is on Amiga.inc side
-Amithlon users
-Winuae/UAE users
-AROS users
Thanks Amiga.inc!
Edit
Updated list
sorry, but the 4th item doesnt make sense.
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Yes it does make sense :) those users hang on the Amigans.net forum.
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pixie wrote:
krize wrote:
Who in the right mind believes and supports Amiga Inc. ??
Worst copmpany ever.
Amigans.net it seems, they delete threads after thread when this subject is envoiced
Well, not really:
http://amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=24
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Agafaster wrote:
cv643d wrote:
So now we have:
-Pegasos users
-Classic Amiga users who do not care about newschool A1 or OS4
-PPC Amiga users who is on Hyperions side
-PPC Amiga users who is on Amiga.inc side
-Amithlon users
-Winuae/UAE users
-AROS users
Thanks Amiga.inc!
Edit
Updated list
sorry, but the 4th item doesnt make sense.
I think it refers to the BAF's.
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well given this speculation (and it is, unless anyone can prove what they are saying) then it sounds like AI want OS4 for free, without having to pay for Hyperions' work.
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:pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:
Clicking that button didn't help, but I didn't want to stop, either.
What is the point of trying to bend over Hyperion when all it will do is severely reduce the number of possible customers for themselves?
I cannot believe this! And I've stayed pretty neutral on the whole issue until now, but the efforts Hyperion and their subcontractors have gone to, a lot off their own bats, was about to bear fruit and now it's on for young and old and noone is going to get payed.
There is a countersuit in their somewhere, but I suspect it depends where the subcontractor's loyalties lie (whether or not they've been paid off by Amiga or if they will run the gauntlet for Hyperion).
I can only hope Amiga have to pay Hyperion and their sub.s for the work done, and not the other way around as appears to be the attempt here.
jaminI'mSoF***ingAngryI'mNotGoingToSleepTonightJay
"Bankrupt me once, shame on you.
Bankrupt me forty-two or more times, shame on me."
PS: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed:
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I always hated that term. people used to fling it around for anyone who didnt (blindly) follow Genesi.
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humppa wrote:
Can anyone tell me what that buyback-clause was exactly?
LINK (http://www.binaryriot.org/cache/os4contractdraft/)
Section 2.07 is interesting...
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AmiKit wrote:
pixie wrote:
krize wrote:
Who in the right mind believes and supports Amiga Inc. ??
Worst copmpany ever.
Amigans.net it seems, they delete threads after thread when this subject is envoiced
Well, not really:
http://amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=24
Damn! you beat me to it ! theyre not gone, just moved on a bit.
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jorkany wrote:
The honorable thing for Hyperion to have done would have been to go off and write the OS on their own, call it HypeOS, and bill it as Amiga-like. But no, they had to be Teh TRu3 AmiGa!!!11 Which is even funnier when you consider they had to write all the code from scratch anyway.
I think that is exactly what is happening now, just to ward off the feeble attempt by the 'Inc' to restrain a release of new hardware. From the standpoint of trademark or copyright/patent infringement for that matter it is important to examine what happened during the last seven years. As for copyright or patent claims, from what I understand, porting the old Exec to PPC turned out to be unworkable. From that point forward, 68k Exec compatibility became a matter of emulation and later JIT, like UAE or MorphOS, so the current OS has little or no code compatibility with Inc.'s old IP (assuming they even still can make legal title to it).
As for trademark, what noone seems to be considering here is whether legally Amiga 'Inc' has maintained their IP (and thus their claim to trademark) or whether through the various re-org's or simple neglect even the name 'Amiga' became abandoned legally. You don't need to be an Uberlawyer to understand the motivation behind the 'secret request to dealers' for invoices. This seems quite obviously an effort to document presence in the marketplace during a period when the 'Inc' company was quite dead or abandoned in the legal sense. Heck, even the seemingly non-sensical re-hiring of the quite obviously 'in over his head' McEwen now may be nothing more than an attempt to demonstrate continuity during the period in question of the 'Inc'.
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Dont know of you but I am very happy about this, and namefollowers should be too. Its great to see that the namefollowers wish came true and Amiga Inc. has started to act like a real company.
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Someone is desparate for money...
...wonder who that could be?!?!
This is B.S. Screw Amiga Inc. they have defiled a once noble and honorable name.
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..........aaaaarrrrrrggh :madashell:
......just needed to do that one more time.
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Is this really a surprise?
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I have been waiting for this news to hit slashdot, but then I realized that the world doesn't care.
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(wheels in a popcorn vending stand)
"Get your hot: Buttered popcorn... Cheese popcorn... Gourmet popcorn... !!!"
:popcorn:
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)
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decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf)
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Very nice work, Rich. :-) So who is the actual owners of Hyperion VOF?
Dammy
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I dont get it, if Hyperion were in breach of the trademark then wouldnt you need to sue them in their own country or at least in the country where the breach took place?
The contract probably defined which jurisdiction such disputes would take place in.
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One thing is for sure reading through this bodge of a motion, McBill is living in a dream world. I read it through and had to chuckle when I see that they only paid Hyperion $22,250.00 instead of the full $25K (there's a little note from Mr. Kouri saying McEwen told him he paid the other $2,250, but there's no proof...bwah ha ha). Let that be a lesson to trusting McBill.
And so much for the OS5 crapola; it's pretty obvious there's nothing out there but what the Friedens coded.
Too bad this motion's not going to be heard until 5/25/07. Still plenty of time to butter up your popcorn. :lol:
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The contract probably defined which jurisdiction such disputes would take place in.
The final contract is attached to the court documents on Rich Woods's website (see Pirus link). I haven't found any substantial differences to the "leaked" contract.
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They moved front page... hadn't deleted it, but still... almost the same
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Piru wrote:
decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf)
What are "sound ships" ???
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LOL!!!! This is so sad that its funny! :crazy: :roll:
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The saddest thing of all is if OS4 only cost $25K I could have paid the Friedens myself. :-D
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@Argo
"Exec compatibility became a matter of emulation.."
That's incorrect, at least that's not what the Friedens claimed. ExecSG (or whatever it's called) is said to be rewriteen from scratch but compatible without an extra layer.
That's what they said anyway.
I've read a little bit (shouldn't but hey..) of it and it seems like there's some false information there, Hyperion is not selling anything and AInc.'s major plan to become at the leading edje ( :lol: ) again was NOT AOS4 it was DE.
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*yawn*
What's on tv tonight? :popcorn:
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Piru wrote:
decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf)
"33. All post-termination efforts by Hyperion to market any Amiga-related product employing Amiga's intellectual property is harming Amiga in ways that cannot be corrected by an award of money damages for a number of reasons."
So they are not after any cash, then.
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Argus wrote:
One thing is for sure reading through this bodge of a motion, McBill is living in a dream world. I read it through and had to chuckle when I see that they only paid Hyperion $22,250.00 instead of the full $25K (there's a little note from Mr. Kouri saying McEwen told him he paid the other $2,250, but there's no proof...bwah ha ha). Let that be a lesson to trusting McBill.
Have no clue why you would say that. This is a slam dunk for AI. They paid they 25K to Hyperion (plus an additional 15K+), they requested the source code after paying for it. They have now severed the contract per the contract terms, and Hyperion has done everything that AI has said they did. Whats Hyperions response going to be. They got paid, so they cant use that one. Its not AIs fault that Benji said they'd sell the OS for 25K and signed the contract to that effect. Hyperion and the Friedens are in big trouble over this and the best they can hope for is just losing the OS.
-Tig
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meega wrote:
Piru wrote:
decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf)
What are "sound ships" ???
These could be military-grade chips. :-)
25K. What was the real cost of developing OS4?
Did Hyperion expect to recover those costs by marketing OS4?
Did that buy-back clause mean Hyperion could potentially have developed the software at a loss?
I don't understand how you buy back a product for 25K when it took all that time to produce.
Maybe those are stupid questions sorry. I only read the first 16 pages of Piru's pdf link so far.
Fester
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I must agree, as much as I hate this situation. From reading the claims from Amiga INC in the document Piru linkedd too, which does seem to have some evidential backing, hyperion would appear to be in deep dog doo.
I do not see what Hyperion can counter with
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@tigger
As George Tenet will tell you now, nothing is a 'slam dunk'. What Amiga, Inc. is really after is preventing Hyperion from releasing OS4 on 'target hardware' i.e. ppc-based pursuant to their valid license under the original agreement (e.g. read their 'first to market' damage charge). Sure, they can argue whether they successfully exercised a buyback or not, but even this isn't a total breach and the remedy would be specific performance (i.e. giving Amiga, Inc. a 'complete' version of OS4). We have no idea, because we haven't heard from Hyperion, what exactly they have delivered or when, in their view, it was delivered. Despite these hysterical accusations from one side, a court could very well decide that there was no breach at all and Hyperion still has a valid exclusive license for target hardware.
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Oh my god! What the hell is this Amiga Inc. trying to do ? They will now loose almost 90% (or more) of their loyal (shrinking) fan base. I think this is the most work Bill and Co. have done in years, only to hurt themselves ..
And who will develop Os4 from now ? Haha, dig your own grave Amiga Inc.
And I agree, if I knew AOS was sold for only $25k i could get the money myslef to them, so lame!!
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Tigger wrote:
Have no clue why you would say that. This is a slam dunk for AI. They paid they 25K to Hyperion (plus an additional 15K+), they requested the source code after paying for it...
This may not be detailed in the motion but is there any documentation indicated whether the source code was relinquished? Even with it though, I can't imagine it being of any value unless the lead developers were on board.
As for the comments about the pricing for the contract you certainly can't point the finger at AI. Clearly someone estimated that this job would take a few months. The fact that work continued and motion to terminate took so long is odd though.
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krize wrote:
Oh my god! What the hell is this Amiga Inc. trying to do ? They will now loose almost 90% (or more) of their loyal (shrinking) fan base. I think this is the most work Bill and Co. have done in years, only to hurt themselves ..
And who will develop Os4 from now ? Haha, dig your own grave Amiga Inc.
I am thinking the same thing. How in the world can this last greedy grabfest do anything but kill whatever remains of good-will, enthusiasm and hope among the remaining Amiga user & developer base. Seems like such destructive behaviour.
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I don't give a toss who is right or wrong I just whant a nice new OS4 Amiga.
If AInc. makes it happens and part of that process has to be whipping Hyperion then I guess that's just the way of things.
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The fact that work continued and motion to terminate took so long is odd though.
Why is that odd? I don't think Hyperion has been able to distribute OS4 since the buyback, and now Hyperion is gearing up to try to sell OS4 to classic PPC users.
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oh boy is this ever pathetic.....Would like to hear Hyperions side of this! In the end whats point of fighting here? a $25000 os? it's a joke... A-inc should just fold and release this all to open source. just pathetic.... In the end NOBODY will make enough money to speak of.
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@Tripitaka
I do agree with you.
I dont know all the facts here, but if Hyperion has broken a legal agreement, and therefor is the reason for me not having a new OS4 Amiga, well then be so.
Just give me my hardware...
At the same time I read about this legal dispute my Amiga died! Isn't that just perfect!
(Well it seems like its just the harddrive, it refuses to spin up, even with another psu, it just gets very warm).
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by guru-666 on 2007/4/30 13:58:01
oh boy is this ever pathetic.....Would like to hear Hyperions side of this! In the end whats point of fighting here? a $25000 os? it's a joke... A-inc should just fold and release it a to open source this this just pathetic.... In the ned NOBODY will make enough money to speak of.
Even if AI folded today, the "owners" and creditors would still have a viable legal rights to any IP that could generate them cash. In other words, it's never going to be Open Source (http://www.aros.org).
Dammy
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what ever... how much is %10 of nothing? Ever try to reach in a naked mans pocket? With all this mucking about I think is important to understand the stakes involved here... we are not talking about any damages as there is very little money to made by anybody...... all amiga inc has to do is relese the thing to open source, then fold like a good boy. That way even hyperion ends up with empty hands.... come on thos guys where just waiting for a-inc to fold so they could steal the amiga......lameness on all ends!
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guru-666 wrote:
what ever... how much is %10 of nothing? Ever try to reach in a naked mans pocket?
I bet Randy has. ;-)
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well this is an interesting thing. I dunno though, this is getting pretty negative. Wayne, you gonna mod this thread like mine? I mean, people are bashing Amiga here!! Have Amiga's lawyers called you yet to inform you of the 'incorrectness' of this news like in my thread which disappeared?
I'm not really bitter about having my thread removed, but now that Amiga somehow found some money they do seem to be throwing their legal weight around with lawyers and such. Couldn't they be spending this money on, I dunno, actually developing a product? Or maybe *wait for it..* possibly paying their debts?
Just a thought. I'll take my negativity and STFU now...
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Amiga.com (http://amiga.com/news/?art=27)
Dated yesterday, but I have not seen it until just now.
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ready from consumers in "summer 2007".... so sometime around 2012 sounds right! LOL
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ravnen wrote:
At the same time I read about this legal dispute my Amiga died! Isn't that just perfect!
:-( Good luck fixing it, allways sucks when a good machine dies.
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Ravnen: Hey a harddrive is not an Amiga, harddrives dies all the time :/ hehe.
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@ravnen
Great, $500 for a computer without HD, RAM, etc., sub-700MHz cpu and PCI graphics? What is this, a six-year old spec? This is a joke right? Who would buy this over a PS3 or XBox360, or even a Wii? It should be no more than $200. Amiga, Inc. have signaled their own death...RIP
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Sad, sad, sad.
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ohh I dunno they Might be able to sell 1000 units over the next 3-5 years.
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Tripitaka wrote:
I don't give a toss who is right or wrong I just whant a nice new OS4 Amiga.
If AInc. makes it happens and part of that process has to be whipping Hyperion then I guess that's just the way of things.
Not I. Hyperion took a chance on the Amiga community when they took on the AOS4 project. Did Amiga Inc have much to do with it except pay a paltry amount which I doubt makes much of a dent in what it really cost to make.
Matter of fact, doesn't the license to sell hardware with the Amiga name cost more than what they've paid for AOS4?
Hyperion is going to lose big time on this one me thinks.
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come on thos guys where just waiting for a-inc to fold so they could steal the amiga
possibly... :crazy:
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After all this time, this is all we have :cry: I guess it answers why it has all taken so long...
I suppose it could be true that Amiga want to sell the next gen computers before Hyperion started to do so, but what a way to do it.
Maybe its time to join the crowd and get my popcorn :popcorn:
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why do you think Amiga Inc. wanted to produce OS4 machines ? They have said many times that AmigaDE was their focus and the future...
Its just lies and more lies.
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@krize
Read Mr Moss's court statement to get a possible interpretation of this.
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Tigger wrote:
Have no clue why you would say that. This is a slam dunk for AI. They paid they 25K to Hyperion (plus an additional 15K+), they requested the source code after paying for it. They have now severed the contract per the contract terms, and Hyperion has done everything that AI has said they did. Whats Hyperions response going to be. They got paid, so they cant use that one. Its not AIs fault that Benji said they'd sell the OS for 25K and signed the contract to that effect. Hyperion and the Friedens are in big trouble over this and the best they can hope for is just losing the OS.
-Tig
Of course you get a one-sided view with the declaration.
It's not Amiga Inc. Delaware that paid Hyperion. The most important piece is missing from the declaration and that is the 2001 agreement with which all started. I think this agreement was made between Amiga Washington or Itec and Hyperion. Rumors have it that in that contract there was a clause that transferred all rights to Hyperion if Amiga Washington would go bankrupt or would be bought.
So let's at least wait for the Hyperion reply.
greets,
Staf.
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Staf, the "Arctic" contract is here (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmcewenshow_case_doc.pdf) and starts at Exhibit G, page 35. This clearly shows KMOS and Hyperion contract (it also states Laws of California will govern the contract) so however the old contract read, Hyperion went on with a new one, with KMOS.
Dammy
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An an other interesting point :-P
Was is AmigaOne ?
Page 9 : line 25-27....
The MicroA1 and SE/XE are motherboard. They are not the AmigaOne, and any computer built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne.
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$25k?!!! Wow and to think I offered $15k not long ago for a port to the Pegasos. In reading the legal docs I see AI paid them the $25k so its clear, they made a stupid deal and now its going back on them.
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This is brilliant news, Hyperion took the piss and now are paying for their stupid ignorant decisions. I am no fan of Amiga Inc but what they are doing is fantastic and i hope they ruin Hyperion.
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mmmmmmm, got something against hyperion have we, what have they done to u then, you joined just to troll?
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CLS2086 wrote:
An an other interesting point :-P
Was is AmigaOne ?
Page 9 : line 25-27....
The MicroA1 and SE/XE are motherboard. They are not the AmigaOne, and any computer built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne.
Yeah. That doesn't make much sense at all. The motherboards were sold as AmigaOnes. There was no such thing as a standard AmigaOne computer system while they were on sale. Any dealer will testify to this. Hell, I'll testify to it.
@ all
Read the legal brief that Piru linked before continuing.
The facts as I see them:
-Hyperion screwed up big time by agreeing to do OS4 for a piddly $25000. (More of an opinion, actually)
-They did miss the March 2002 deadline by a longshot.
-There's a lot of muck surrounding the Developer Pre-Release (2004) vs. Final Update (Dec 2006). I read the Final Update as essentially being Update 5 to the Pre-Release, not formal launch of the OS. Amiga thinks otherwise and believes that such an action violated the agreement. There's no other mention of the other Pre-Release updates in the brief, and introducing them would probably help Hyperion's defense.
-The main thing to consider is that nothing is actually on sale and nothing actually has been on sale for years. Yes, Hyperion and ACube are advertising OS4 (possibly in violation of the agreement) for not-previously-agreed-upon platforms, but the fact that I can't right this second go out and buy any of this (thus cutting into Amiga's sales) means, to me, that Amiga's case is weak.
This whole thing is absurd - the financial value of the properties involved is absolutely miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Just pay Hyperion what they're asking and be done with it. Hell, I'd bet the community would pony up the money to do so if it meant getting a voice as an investor and getting the product out the door.
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And who will buy this new {bleep} ACK hardware? Adam, stop sleeping with AInc., noone will buy an OS without Hyperion support...
This looks like the OS3.9 ROM story, claming on IPs that other made for you (in this case the Amiga Developers & CBM & Haage& Partner (YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING IN YOUR LIVE BILL!!!), now you are trying to get your fingers on AOS4... forgett it! :)
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Just pay Hyperion what they're asking and be done with it. Hell, I'd bet the community would pony up the money to do so if it meant getting a voice as an investor and getting the product out the door.
From what I read from the law suit paperwork, they did pay the $25K plus another $8K or so and still have not gotten the source code, which includes the Twin's work.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
Just pay Hyperion what they're asking and be done with it. Hell, I'd bet the community would pony up the money to do so if it meant getting a voice as an investor and getting the product out the door.
From what I read from the law suit paperwork, they did pay the $25K plus another $8K or so and still have not gotten the source code, which includes the Twin's work.
Dammy
Yeah. So just give them more. It's essentially pocket change if similar figures are involved.
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mmmmmmm, got something against hyperion have we, what have they done to u then, you joined just to troll?
Hyperion have been holding OS4 hostage long enough, it is about time the blind arse licking towards Hyperion stops. Forcing them to release the prisoner (OS4) is a must, if Amiga OS wants to survive.
I wonder if some of you are more interested in the companies rather than the actual product(s).
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May this is interesting, but the domain www.amiga.de is still not working, because someone complained wrong data in the accounting. ;)
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CLS2086 wrote:
An an other interesting point :-P
Was is AmigaOne ?
Page 9 : line 25-27....
The MicroA1 and SE/XE are motherboard. They are not the AmigaOne, and any computer built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne.
Yeah, I found that interesting. Did Eyetech drop the ball or what? Guess they didn't know they were suppost to be marketing whole computer systems and not just motherboards. Are they still even around to get sued? Why were they not sued before when selling "AmigaOnes"?
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Amiga Inc. just realized that they will never make money with their Anywhere idea! Take a look on big companys that are offering operating systems for most of the avaible plattforms: http://www.symbian.com/
Now, after years, they will try/want to make money in the Amiga Community, but I say forgett it, no way without the developers!
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Guys none of this should matter remember Bill told us he was going to SKIP os4 and come out with OS5..... piece of cake!
It's obvios, the new hardware will run OS5 not os4....... the guys in india have alrady finished OS5... so obvous!
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This clears up a lot and it only took until April 30, 2007 :roll:
Sucks, no 2 ways about it, this sucks. Not unexpected though. The writting has been on the wall for how long now? Since Garry Hare pronounced OS4 dead in ~04? I got my head handed to my by certain people I won't mention, who are now being sued, and their blind followers for stating the obvious.
Anyhow there are no winners here, only losers. We all lose. We have no OS4, no MOS, no healthy classic market, nothing at all. All we have are memories and an ageing userbase who is slowly dying off :-(
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And, as I have already posted, Section 33 of the document (that Piru provided the link to) indicates that A Inc are not pursuing money. It looks as if the purpose of the suit is to assert control over, and prevent unauthorised use of, the Amiga trademark. That includes versions of the OS after 3.0.
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@redrumloa
It's not so bad, we have the largest vintage computer community and some of the best emulators. Heck with have aros and amigathlon. What does the ST cimmunity have? or the sinclare peopel? nothing! the fact that we are even THINKING of producing new hardware is crazy! There is nothing to run on this OS4 anyway, the amiga hayday is over. We have so much cool old software to run on owr classic computer what more could we want?
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Is there any part of the deal that Amiga Inc didn't hold up to?
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koaftder wrote:
Is there any part of the deal that Amiga Inc didn't hold up to?
Actually doing anything themselves....
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Hey, does anyone know where I can find the link to the News Item about The Early Bird Coupons?? I need to find it. AI took it off their web page and for all intents and purposes, Amiga Inc. commited fraud, taking that money for "Amiga One" boards, when they claim now that there has never been an Amiga One board. I hate to break it to you, Gents, but over a thousand of us gave them 50$ for that coupon for OS4.0, bundled with "Amiga One" boards. That's fraud. Regardless of whether they sent t-shirts or not, they took money for non-existant boards, ones that never even existed.
If I can get enough people involved, I'm tempted to file a class-action suit against Amiga, Inc. for fraud. If I can get 100 people to support it, it's a start. If I can get at least 500 of them, to back me, the Courts have to look into Amiga's business practices over the past few years, to make sure there's been no fraudlent activities, which there have.
Does anyone have that link? I need to read it, before I throw together a depostition. I live in Texas and Austin is a *VERY* liberal city, so most people here don't take kindly to thieves.
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guru-666 wrote:
Heck with have aros and amigathlon. What does the ST cimmunity have? or the sinclare peopel? nothing!
That is not totally true. Amithlon is illegal and dead. AROS will be the last man standing, but at this time doesn't do much. The Atari ST community has more than you know, believe it or not. Atari did they ethical thing and open sourced everything. There are multiple NG Atari clones and new accelerator cards and such. I'd say the Atari market and even the C64 market is healthier right now than the Amiga market. :crazy:
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The old Amiga Inc was involved in the coupons scam not the current squeaky clean Amiga Inc.
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Glittering wrote:
The old Amiga Inc was involved in the coupons scam not the squeaky clean Amiga Inc.
That's not how Texas Law works. ;-) This is a class action, civil case. Think Enron, Mate. Point of fact, the person in charge of the new Amiga Inc, is the same person who started the whole coupon scam, with the previous incarnation of Amiga Inc. The fact that he, as the CEO, knowingly and *WILLINGLY* took money from individual consumers, in excess of 50,000$, yet failed to produce product, is fraud, in Texas Law. No matter how many times he's schelled his company, it's still fraud and any incarnation is still held accountable, 'cos Big Mac is still CEO of the company.
[EDIT] - Oh lest I forget, the Texas Judicial System will also ask Big Mac why he hasn't paid previously, unpaid employees first, *BEFORE* they sold off the companies "IP", 'cos "passing the buck", to avoid court appointed reparations is a *BIG* no, no here.
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Methuselas wrote:
Hey, does anyone know where I can find the link to the News Item about The Early Bird Coupons?? I need to find it.
I bleached the t-shirt by accident...
Try http://web.archive.org/web/*/amiga.com
Fester
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... deep breath... hahahahahhaha :lol:
/me throws AROS into the drive and has a little play.
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@Methuselas
Amiga Inc have always managed to escape without paying up and they seem to love the challenge. If you can get money of those {bleep}s i wish you the best of luck.
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@redrumloa
hmmm I guess, though amigathon still runs great on my box and a bought it while it was available (it still gets updates!) I don't think it illeagal! I paid to run it, but I get your point.
I did not know of any ST clones but would be intereted. I figure there are some emulators out there but uae is very good! Also I still think there is a greate retro amiga scene out there. Things get realy crazy every time Mr. McEwen attempsts to cash in on his funky internet company.
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Glittering wrote:
@Methuselas
Amiga Inc have always managed to escape without paying up and they seem to love the challenge. If you can get money of those {bleep}s i wish you the best of luck.
If I don't get more than just me, to sue, it's pointless, but I'm tired of those pathetic, sacks of sh!t. That "new" amiga is a {bleep}ing joke. I'd rather have the Amiga die, in it's pathetic existance now, than to be shredded and bled dry, by Big Mac.
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dammy wrote:
This clearly shows KMOS and Hyperion contract (it also states Laws of California will govern the contract) so however the old contract read, Hyperion went on with a new one, with KMOS.
Dammy
Yes, about being able to adapt OS4 for an arctic demo. I would like to see the original contract. Why isn't it included in the filing, it certainly is related to the case.
greets,
Staf.
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Yes, about being able to adapt OS4 for an arctic demo. I would like to see the original contract. Why isn't it included in the filing, it certainly is related to the case.
If there is anything in that old contract, I'm sure Ben will have his attorneys submit it with their counter claim. They will be coughing up the monies for legal defense, won't they?
Genesi may have taught AI a new trick, those who can not afford an lawyer in Federal Court loses the case.
Dammy
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Fats wrote:
Yes, about being able to adapt OS4 for an arctic demo. I would like to see the original contract. Why isn't it included in the filing, it certainly is related to the case.
Because definitely there should a clause there preventing AInc from executing the buyback or in support of Hyperions case. Nobody in their right mind agrees to deliver an OS for 25K. Not including the original contract is a joke, I'm sure the court will have a good laugh at this ...
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Methuselas wrote:
If I can get enough people involved, I'm tempted to file a class-action suit against Amiga, Inc. for fraud.
Hell YES ! Get even with McEven ! :) :banana: :banana: :devildance: :devildance: :banana: :banana:
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countzero wrote:
Methuselas wrote:
If I can get enough people involved, I'm tempted to file a class-action suit against Amiga, Inc. for fraud.
Hell YES ! Get even with McEven ! :) :banana: :banana: :devildance: :devildance: :banana: :banana:
As I said in the other thread... I don't think you can sue the current Amiga Inc. because it's not the same as the old Amgia Inc. Don't forget we've had a shell game to clear Amiga Inc. of its legal obligations.
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Ohh I belive we could.... we can prove it was he same people. They have been to court over this before i's sure thisis not what the judge had in mind!
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guru-666 wrote:
Ohh I belive we could.... we can prove it was he same people. They have been to court over this before i's sure thisis not what the judge had in mind!
Kudos to Guru! You figured it out. Big Mac's in some *DEEP* sh!t now.
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Not Genesi aparently...
:lol: so true... BB *AND* RV kicked AI's ass both in the computing world and LEGALLY. :lol:
In for the drama!! this is going to rock!!
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how come this news isnt on news.com.com
those cnet clowns really have no idea.
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how come this news isnt on news.com.com
Or /. for that matter.
Dammy
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I noticed a distinct lack of dates on evidence relating to payments, etc. These invoices do not look sensible and definitely do not look like any international funds transfer or bank cheque I've ever had drawn. And what's with the scribble on that hurried fax?
I think I'm going to have to fold and ask to join the popcorn crowd...
Edit: And no signatures on one of the so-called agreements. How can you submit, as evidence, an unsigned document? Huh? How?!
jaminJay
"You've killed the Inc.."
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benJamin wrote:
Edit: And no signatures on one of the so-called agreements. How can you submit, as evidence, an unsigned document? Huh? How?!
LMAO ! :) yes I just checked, it's hilarious ... I mean ... they're like "you see, the hyperion baddies didn't even sign the aggrements they were meant to agree with. mummy ! I want my OS4 please mummy please !" it's just a joke. If AInc wins this suit, I'm gonna sue them for owing me 3 million $ showing unsigned contracts and lousy office communication about money transfers as evidence.
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Just go get MorphOS compatable hardware and be happy like I am! ;) Its Far from dead as many seem to think, the Efika is just as good if not better then this first crap hardware they are talking about now, for a fraction of the price too.
Amiga died a long time ago...
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Acill:
Can you get MOS running on EFIKA *RIGHT NOW* ?
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wayback amiga (http://web.archive.org/web/20040330214705/www.amiga.com/corporate/070102-mcewen.shtml?PHPSESSID=497928d5f3981cdcb32d6e1cdbc65e5e)
(http://www.etxrn.com/junction/smoking%20gun.jpg)
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Just go get MorphOS compatable hardware and be happy like I am! ;) Its Far from dead as many seem to think, the Efika is just as good if not better then this first crap hardware they are talking about now, for a fraction of the price too.
No thanks. I won't buy an EFIKA unless MOS is released for it. I have no idea how long that will take. It might be released tomorrow, but it could also still take a year.
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bloodmoney wrote:
wayback amiga (http://web.archive.org/web/20040330214705/www.amiga.com/corporate/070102-mcewen.shtml?PHPSESSID=497928d5f3981cdcb32d6e1cdbc65e5e)
class action lawsuit for $50,000 and a 1000 t-shirts
outcome:
amiga inc must refund the money, and supply t-shirts to everyone involved...including the judge...and the popcorn maker man
in other news, this must be the most awesome popcorn maker in the universe:
(http://standardconcessionsupply.com/i/SCS%20Images/tn_scooby_popcorn_maker.jpg)
and this must be the most retarded popcorn maker:
http://www.bmigaming.com/Images/popcornride-falgas.jpg (http://www.bmigaming.com/Images/popcornride-falgas.jpg)
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Matt_H wrote:
Yeah. So just give them more. It's essentially pocket change if similar figures are involved.
God no!! What they have to do is to pay millions for sponsoring one to be built event center... wait! They've already done that! :roll:
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As I said in the other thread... I don't think you can sue the current Amiga Inc. because it's not the same as the old Amgia Inc. Don't forget we've had a shell game to clear Amiga Inc. of its legal obligations.
They cannot shell some parts of it and keep others... they either has all the rights or has none...
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countzero:
Because definitely there should a clause there preventing AInc from executing the buyback or in support of Hyperions case. Nobody in their right mind agrees to deliver an OS for 25K. Not including the original contract is a joke, I'm sure the court will have a good laugh at this ...
Why would the laugh at this? It's not illegal to make bad
businessdeals.. Hyperion accepted and are now butt-
fscked. It's their problem, noone elses.
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Yes, Hyperion are not the innocent victims that their fans are trying to portray them as. Hyperion (especially the scummy Friedens) have {bleep}ed over the Amiga users for long enough now and it should stop, just give them the middle finger and move on - hopefully the damage they have caused can me slightly repaired.
Shame on you Friedens.
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@Glittering:
You give me the suspicious feeling of deja-vu...
jaminJay
"It's like deja-vu all over again!" - Yogi Bear
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If the shell games make them free from all old claims, why is the hyperion contract still alive???
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Glittering wrote:
Shame on you Friedens.
Shame on you, you troll...
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/. will reject it, guaranteed. Someone prove me wrong.
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Jay Miner is rolling around in his grave :(
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SteveSMS wrote:
Jay Miner is rolling around in his grave :(
Probably not, he did see Amiga's rise and fall. What's been past 12-13 years is only echo from few glorious years. However I'd been happy to try OS4 on my Amiga 4000, but that day probably won't come.
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@Fats
I would like to see the original contract. Why isn't it included in the filing, it certainly is related to the case.
The original, signed contract is here:
decmossshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmossshow_case_doc.pdf)
Exhibit A, page 12 ->
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@benJamin
Edit: And no signatures on one of the so-called agreements. How can you submit, as evidence, an unsigned document? Huh? How?!
Signatures are on the page 18 of decmossshow_case_doc.pdf (http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/decmossshow_case_doc.pdf)
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If it turns out that Hyperion does not own any of the code or a significant part, say the Kernel. How can they turn over the code to Amiga, Inc.?
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@Argo
Good question. Then again the contract has a clause 7.12 which states that "Neither party shall assign or subcontract the whole or any part of this Agreement without the other party's prior written consent."
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Piru wrote:
@Argo
Good question. Then again the contract has a clause 7.12 which states that "Neither party shall assign or subcontract the whole or any part of this Agreement without the other party's prior written consent."
Yet in 2.01 of the contract is stated that "Amiga acknowledges and accepts that Hyperion will bring in third part contractors to fullfill its contractual obligations." and in 2.06 "Amiga hereby acknowledges and accepts that some third parties may only grant an Object Code license or may otherwise restrict the rights granted to Hyperion."
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@quenthal
True, but IMHO still bringing in such third parties would require written consent, in accordance with clause 7.12. At this point the actual license would be agreed upon, and any non-favorable agreement could be avoided (say for example I'm quite sure that Amiga Inc would object to such an agreement that the core component 'exec' would suddenly be object code only).
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Piru wrote:
@quenthal
True, but IMHO still bringing in such third parties would require written consent, in accordance with clause 7.12. At this point the actual license would be agreed upon, and any non-favorable agreement could be avoided (say for example I'm quite sure that Amiga Inc would object to such an agreement that the core component 'exec' would suddenly be object code only).
lol, that's true.. is that annex II (pointed in 2.01) of this contract available somewhere, maybe there these 3rd party contractors are discussed more throughly?
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@quenthal
My best guess is that the pages starting from 20 are the "Annex II" mentioned (but I could be wrong). These pages list some tasks and people assigned to them.
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Piru wrote:
@Argo
Good question. Then again the contract has a clause 7.12 which states that "Neither party shall assign or subcontract the whole or any part of this Agreement without the other party's prior written consent."
Oops! Hyperion made a boo boo.... ;-)
SteveSMS wrote:
Jay Miner is rolling around in his grave :(
He's be rolling in his grave if he saw what was passed off as the AmigaONE...
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@Piru:
Could be, if they (annex I and II) can point to same document as it seems that document "OS 4 Schedule and Feature List" is alone there.
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by Argo on 2007/5/1 16:08:24
If it turns out that Hyperion does not own any of the code or a significant part, say the Kernel. How can they turn over the code to Amiga, Inc.?
Hyperion is deep doodoo, there is little doubt about that. Tigger had an interesting observation (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/143414.shtml) on Moo that I'm sure OS4 Devs haven't missed but sure enlightened me of Hyperion's actions.
Dammy
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Hyperion's response (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/news/2007-05-01)
[EDIT]
Oops, mixed dates a bit. That indeed IS the 2001 contract.
[/EDIT]
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Piru wrote:
Hyperion's response (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/news/2007-05-01)
Intresting. So the 25k$ should not affect 4.0 at all. And as they probably knew Hyperion was about to release OS4 for the christmas, they were in hurry to end the license before that.?
Then there is this:
Hyperion Entertainment has, in the form of Amiga OS 4.0, delivered a product ...a fact which was previously acknowledged contractually and publicly by Amiga Inc.
Is this publically available somewhere?
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Without meaning to sound like a Hyperion apologist, it is very clear that they conduct themselves in a very professional manner with their corporate image.
It appears that Amiga Inc. are intending to look like the poor, hard-done-by, run-into-the-ground IT start-up who have been bludgeoned unfairly by a classier company. They are trying to look like the underdog who have tried very hard to 'do the right thing'. The whole website appears to be a well-orchestrated set-up. Hooray for the Wayback Machine!
Ahem.
Not to mention that both companies expressed financial difficulties during 2001 and Hyperion are well known to have taken on external contracts to supplement income in order to continue working on the OS4 project when Amiga Inc. looked to be going under. I really hope some communique will be disclosed showing acknowledgement of these instances in Hyperion's case.
Off to read more of Piru's discoveries and awaiting the next batch there is sure to be. I hope that in Fleecy's statement I see actual bank transfer receipts, unlike the 'directive to pay' notes in Bill's statement, which don't appear to prove anything at all.
jaminJay
"This is becoming as much fun as /.'s coverage of any RIAA lawsuit!"
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Hyperions response is not proof. Just more chatter.
Let's see the original contracts and proof in writing like AMIGA have submitted.
I don't want to take sides on this issue but I certainly will not be a sheep and follow the flag wavers of Hyperion who keep saying Hyperion are angels. They were a company payed to do a task. That company could have been Sony or Microsoft instead of Hyperion. I sometimes wonder if that would have sung a different tune. The courts will decide who owns what here. It's a shame it has come to this. Still no product regardless of whos fault and the community continues to suffer yet again. Time for that PS3.
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Guess we shall see who the REAL Boing Ball supporters really are for AI. :popcorn:
Dammy
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@dammy
Count me in as a Boing Ball supporter :-)
Amiga Inc have been baddies for many years but everyone knew that. No one expected Hyperion to be the same, they even built themselves up to gain the Amiga communities trust and respect while giving them hope for the future with Amiga OS. Now all it turns out to be, is Hyperions game to steal Amiga Inc property.
Inexcusable and certainly not defend-able.
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@glittering
you have no clue.....go back to your troll cave. If a-inc put you up to this just know.. they don;t pay there people.
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Your post proves exactly what i was saying earlier, slag of Amiga Inc its fine, slag of Hyperion (who have badly hurt the community) and your a troll.
Thanks for proving that.
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Hmm. I had hoped a bit better stuff..
Edit: yes.. I was refering to Hyperion's reply. Ah well, they have some time before they have to explain themselves to USA court so there's hope they get their defence in order ..
I'm not saying that people should ever forget those stupid (not to mention highly questionable) things AmigaInc did (partypack, ClubAmiga etc) but I fail to see their importance on this case concernign OS4 and Amiga trademarks+IP. Unless of course they were mentioned by hyperion in a sole purpose of getting some sympathy votes.
My reply to that: Hypeiron.. If you indeed *were* aware of these AmigaInc's projects, you should have warned people *IN TIME*, it does not make much good to talk about them now, five years after you (alongside Eyetech and various AInc followers) were covering up the mess..
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"To get that content, Amiga was relying on the Amiga developers. The Amiga developers, in turn, were relying on having OS 4.2 with DE on it because they only want to develop using new Amiga computers."
Okay. So, there were a limited amount of machines that don't exist with OS4 and OS4 SDKs out there. Amiga Inc. surely had at least one of these motherboards running OS4 and had access to the SDK from Hyperion. The OS as released in the developer pre-release must have been enough to develop the DE SDK for it, otherwise there would have to be a variation in the contract for Hyperion to develop the missing functionality, yes?
And where were these new Amiga computers? The A1s that weren't authorised to exist from the company who bailed Amiga Inc. out got discontinued due to Amiga's inaction. Those that did exist are still running an ever-improving OS4 which still DOES NOT HAVE A DE SDK on it.
You CANNOT blame the 'lack' of DE SDK sales on a lack of OS4. The DE SDK, like DE itself, is designed to work on multiple architectures. Why hasn't the mobile phone industry gone bankrupt? Surely their multimedia content is produced by ex-Amiga enthusiasts (or the companies that bought ex-Amiga talent to port ex-Amiga games to the Java platform).
I will continue reading the document, but Amiga Inc. cannot seriously believe, even though they assert, that their DE business failed because of a third party whose hands they appear to have quite erroneously tied, can they? They had EVERY opportunity to develop and release the DE SDK for the OS4 platform, which would have solidified commitment from hardware manufacturers to produce mainstream computing systems for said environment.
Also, they stated in no uncertain terms after buying Gateway's assets that they are a SOFTWARE company. They seem to want to appear to be a hardware company again...
jaminJay
"I'll read into this whatever it appears to be saying."
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erm.. Didn't Amiga Inc, Washington (http://www.secstate.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=601983734) go insolvent?
[The 2001 agreement is between] "Amiga Inc (hereafter: "Amiga"), a State of Washington, USA Corporation" [and Hyperion and Eyetech].
If so then surely clause 2.07 becomes valid:
[Clause 2.07 states that] "In the event Amiga files for bankruptcy or becomes insolvent, the Amiga One Partners are granted an exclusive, perpetual, world-wide and royalty free right and license to develop, use, modify and market the Software and OS4 under the "Amiga OS" trademark and at their sole expense."
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Clause 2.07 would require some solid proof and (IANAL) lawcase initiated by Hyperion for it to become legally binding. And even then, I'd expect bankruptcy lawers (or ainc shareowners) to be able to put Ainc's property/ip into sale. And I seriously doubt hat Hyperion would be the highest bidder.
Besides,. If that had happened, it should have happened years ago (when Amiga inc had cash problems), and it never did.
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f so then surely clause 2.07 becomes valid:
Quote:
[Clause 2.07 states that] "In the event Amiga files for bankruptcy or becomes insolvent, the Amiga One Partners are granted an exclusive, perpetual, world-wide and royalty free right and license to develop, use, modify and market the Software and OS4 under the "Amiga OS" trademark and at their sole expense."
Except they did the shell game and transferred everything to KMOS before letting AI WA wither on the vine. Then this Arctic contract makes it even worse for Hyperion since Hyperion is agreeing, by default, that KMOS is the owner of the Amiga IP.
Stick a fork in Hyperion, they are done, IMO.
Dammy
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Prior to the announcement of the Amiga Centre at Kent, any jury hearing the case would have come to the following conclusion:
"The jury finds that, in the case of trademark infringement, the Omega name is not well known, much less known for software of any level of quality."
This is a well-orchestrated set-up.
QED
jaminJay
"Possessions are fleeting." - Homer J. Simpson
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After all that reading, I can honestly say (and IANAJ) that the case presented on behalf of Amiga has a number of subtle self-referential conflicts which will be difficult to explain.
Don't get me wrong, I want Amiga, Hyperion and ACube to release, in unison, their products for the benefit of each other and the customers that Amiga have strived to assert representation of. Well, at least their American customers.
And as my last comment (until Hyperion's response is published) before resuming normal, non-legal-battle related forum interaction follows:
If those legal documents were written under Wiki conventions, they would be marked "This article needs clean up" and "This article's style is not that of a legal document". :lol:
I await the response.
jaminJay
"Learning is fun!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
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@Argo
My theory is that the kernel is already sufficiently divorced from the old 68K Exec that this is new technology.
@Jose
ExecSG (or whatever it's called) is said to be rewriteen from scratch but compatible without an extra layer.
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (Registered user) on 05-Aug-2003 08:11:23
All current Exec functiionality was preserved in ExecSG and for compatibility reasons even some of the quirks were preserved.
There is even a little Exec code in ExecSG.
source (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1059932256&category=forum&number=192#comment)
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@Piru
Posted by Rogue on 27-Aug-2003 0:11:30
ExecSG has always been 100% PPC
Source (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1140&forum=14#12569)
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@humppa
And? These two declarations are not mutually exclusive.
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Here is the fix to this whole situation:
Move to AROS (http://www.aros.org)
:ponder:
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what a mess.
Hyperion signed a contract with AmigaInc to Port Exec to PowerPC - with minimal functionality for $25,000. This did not look a big task until Hyperion found that Exec was written in assembler.
At this stage a new contract should have been made for all the extra work needed. Its was not.
Hyperion Overextended themselves and done more work on the project that was requested.
Looking at the buyback clause IF AmigaInc goes bankrupt, Amiga OS 4.0 is legally Hyperions to do as they please.
AmigaInc accuses Hyperion for willfull delay on completing the project and returning OS 4.0 to AmigaInc, in an attempt to destroy AmigaInc and acquire Amiga OS 4.0 rights automatically.
Could this be true ? How can a compitent Softwarehouse overextend its contractual obligations ?
Yes Hyperion took 5 years to finish OS 4.0, thats not AmigaIncs fault.
Hyperion do not own Amiga OS 4.0 so they should return it in the minimilistic feature set as requested in the contract.
Hyperion should not offer technical support for AmigaOS 4.0 as it is not in their contract.
Create a new contract to remedy all this.
asy
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I don't know, I always liked Hyperion, they always seemed like decent guys. They were certainly champing at the bit to do OS 4 back when I was at Amiga, and Amiga didn't mind letting them.
But what makes me wonder is, if AI V1.0 (the Washington State ones, who are now closed and legally don't have to service their debts) are gone and the contract was with them, then, why is it still valid now with Amiga V2.0?
In my case, I'm having difficulties collecting because technically it was a different company. So, shouldn't the same rules apply? Technically, it was a different company that made the contract with Hyperion.
There are so many twists and turns, its like this company/companies were designed specifically to make lawyers rich!
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Try http://web.archive.org/web/*/amiga.com
Fester
Really nice to see all the pages full of lies and empty promises again. :-P
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Glittering wrote:
Now all it turns out to be, is Hyperions game to steal Amiga Inc property.
I think you are the bill mc evil aincompetent troll... may you are really billy, flaming here around???
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I think the situation is very tiring. When OS4 was finished, I felt this was going to be an important year for the Amiga. It turns out I was right, but not in the good way I was hoping for. We have this three way civil lawsuit going on, and who knows how long this will continue?
I don't know if Amiga will live on, make a comeback, or not. I am a bit tired of all the empty promises, and I'm glad I had moved on to the PC a long time ago. Yeah the OS is bloated and sucks, but it works. As long as the programs I want to run or games I want to play work, then I'm fine. I've got Win-UAE for all my classic Amiga stuff when I want to "look back". For the most part, I just want ONE computer that will do what I need. For now, that's my PC. One day I wouldn't mind getting a Mac where I can dual boot to Windows as well, but those cost quite a bit.
As far as the future of Amiga is concerned, I think I'll just let it rest. I adore the computer and would like to see it make a comeback, but I'm not sure if it's possible anymore. I'll keep an eye on things and see how this all turns out. Even if we get new Amigas this year, we'll still need software to take advantage of it.
I'll watch, skip the popcorn, and see how it turns out. I'm not feeling very optimistic, though.
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"Here is the fix to this whole situation:
Move to AROS"
{dumb response on]
Is Aros finished already ?
Is it usuable for the masses ?
[/dumb response on]
:-?
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Tron2k2 wrote:
But what makes me wonder is, if AI V1.0 (the Washington State ones, who are now closed and legally don't have to service their debts) are gone and the contract was with them, then, why is it still valid now with Amiga V2.0?
In my case, I'm having difficulties collecting because technically it was a different company. So, shouldn't the same rules apply? Technically, it was a different company that made the contract with Hyperion.
AI sold the OS to Itec including the contract with AI, in fact we see Itec is who actually bought the OS from Hyperion for 25K. What you need to find out is where did the money for that sale go, and why wasnt it used to pay down your (or Matts, or fill in the blanks debt). The think I dont understand Bolten is why are you always after AI, I know you won the suit against them BUT YOU ALSO WON the suit against Bill McEwen, and unless he declared bankruptcy, that big check he got should have been used to pay you. Him being paid all that money is public record as part of the Garry Hare lawsuit, get him dragged into court and get the half of the money he owes you at least. He owns 10% of OS 4.0 according to the new records, I'm guessing he'd rather clear the debt with you then you get that. Push at Bill, and you are much more likely to get money then the shell game that Ben came up with thats now biting him in the ass.
-Tig
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@Piru
Ok, so some of the code is not new, didn't knew that :) I still think it's cool that there's no extra layer to slow things down.
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asymetrix wrote:
Looking at the buyback clause IF AmigaInc goes bankrupt, Amiga OS 4.0 is legally Hyperions to do as they please.
asy
I think the language was about being insolvent rather than bankrupt, for which there is an important difference. What might hurt Amiga is on some levels they seem to argue that they were insolvent in both the Garry Hare case (the only $100 in the bank thing) and the aftermath of the Bolton Peck case (i.e. why they supposedly say they don't owe Bolton, essentially not being the same Amiga Inc.).
If Hyperion is smart they will leverage this.
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Forcing them to release the prisoner (OS4) is a must, if Amiga OS wants to survive.
Yes, because Amiga Inc. has shown so well they want to invest in people to support OS4 (customer support), they want to hire programmers to fix any found bugs and improve the product (4.1 etc). Amiga has shown that OS4 is important to them, is worth their investment, time and energy. I don't know how OS4 could possibly succeed or survive without them. /sarcasm
I'm currently somewhat concerned about OS4's survival regardless of who wins this lawsuit. Is Amiga Inc. capable or genuinly interested in holding OS4 together as a usable and viable OS product if they win, or will it fall apart and become nothing? Is Hyperion legally allowed to do anything with it if they win and Amiga Inc. continues to refuse hardware licenses?
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why do you feel that it matters what happens to os4? It's not the only option. Whats so great about os4?
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Don't mean to upset the flow of this debate but....
Looks like Bill is nowhere near to having OS5 as he previously intimated, otherwise he would be flogging that with the new motherboards.
OK back to what you were talking about.
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"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up"
That's even more true after all these years...
I still think it's cool that there's no extra layer to slow things down.
No, but there is an extra lawyer to slow things down instead.
:-D
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Amiga Inc. point out in their statement that Hyperion didn't deliver on time. Apparently OS4 was to be delivered after a short while, a year or less. But they sue only now, after more than five years have passed. If you wait that long, can you really have a case? Wouldn't it be like having an apple tree and not picking its fruits, so someone else comes and pick it, makes juice out of it and only then do you come to tell them that the apples were yours, after having neglected your fruits for so long?
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.... and it would be no suprise if the tree-owner would actually win the juice in a court-case .....
Just because something is laying unused doesn't mean taking it is any less theft.
Hyperion only had a very limited project, and a clear contract with that buyback-clause in it. Everything they did on top of that was at their own risk. A judge may order them to only transfere what was orginally planned, but cutting OS4 back and still keeping working might be quite hard, and offcourse it wouldn't give them the rights to do anything with the rest.
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Update can be found here (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/144227.shtml).
Dammy
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Amiga Inc. point out in their statement that Hyperion didn't deliver on time. Apparently OS4 was to be delivered after a short while, a year or less. But they sue only now, after more than five years have passed. If you wait that long, can you really have a case?
Case is not about delivering a product in time. Amiga Inc bought back OS4, terminated license and is sueing Hyperion because they are illegally using Amiga's intellectual property.
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Update can be found here (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/144227.shtml).
:bump:
Dammy