Amiga.org
Amiga.org specific forums => New User Introductions => Topic started by: anon123 on April 20, 2007, 03:06:50 AM
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I am a hobby programmer with experience in Linux. I'm interested in alternative O/S's and Amiga caught my eye. I figure if the user-base is so dedicated, there must be something to it. From both a user and developer point of view, what makes Amiga (modern, MorphOS, AROS, OS4 etc.) so good?
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Back in the day... it was by far the most advanced system available for home computing. Of course today it can't hold a candle to any "modern" systems. That being said, there are still a few things that keep me coming back to my old Amiga from time to time; nostalgia, blazing fast OS (boots in seconds), very simple and straight forward system with an intuitively obvious GUI.
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What RRunner said!
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For me, the Amiga has an extremely logical system layout. Everything is where you would expect it to be. Hardware drivers in the Devs directory, shell commands in the C directory, shared libraries in the Libs directory, etc.
What I like best about it is that you can use it as a high-level user-friendly system and still be able to get beneath the surface very easily to not only diagnose problems, but just to learn how the system works.
You may want to consider buying the Amiga Forever emulation environment and a Developer's CD (v2.1) to learn more.
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I was considering AROS, what would you recommend I use? How does the Amiga forever thing compare (I perfer Free (as in freedom))?
From a programmers perspective, how is Amiga? Is the API clean? easy to use? powerful?
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I'm sorry I canot answer any of your programming related questions, I am not a developer...
I'd say go for AROS, but then again, I'm a bit biased ;-)
Seriously though, AROS has a future, running natively in modern hardware - this cannot be said for any other amigoid OS
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I would say do it because you want to do that.
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It's zen like simplicity compared to over bloated monsters like Windoze Xp and Vista. The fact that everything works like it's supposed to and it doesn't come with a lot of useless junk that takes forever to load. It is extremely light on system resources and leaves most of your memory and hardisk and CPU cycles to you to do what you want with them.
Amiga DOS is like a stripped down Unix derivitive that is elegant and functional and has a lot of power. The Workbench GUI is a little eccentric but once you get use to it, it really rocks and has a real creative edge and it never gets in the way of things like Windoze does.
The only OS that I can compare it to is OS2 which came from the opposite extreme--IBM, Big Blue--of computer culture but had a lot in common with it including the Rexx language and the stability and reliability factor--reliable enough for the banking industry. The Amiga OS was reliable enough for the Broadcast Television industry.
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What about Linux?
I'm used to doing A LOT of work in a CLI, does Amiga have a powerful CLI (better than the Windoze CLI, with support for pipe's and stuff like that)?
What does Amiga have that Unix doesnt?
Is there a central repo or directory of some sort for Amiga software?
Are there ports of my favorite programs, Emacs, Epic4, Lynx?
I saw some screenshots of Amiga's new skin's and up-and-coming icons... it looks AMAZING!
http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nova/arosshow/damir_int1.jpg
http://arosshow.blogspot.com/2007/04/damir-d980-sijakovic-interview-hello.html
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anon123 wrote:
Is there a central repo or directory of some sort for Amiga software?
Yes, there is. Check Aminet (http://www.aminet.net).
What about Linux?
I'm used to doing A LOT of work in a CLI, does Amiga have a powerful CLI (better than the Windoze CLI, with support for pipe's and stuff like that)?
AFAIK, classic amiga shell doesn't have those, but probably you can find a shell replacement from aminet.
Btw, you can run linux on your amiga too, if you have 68030+ CPU
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What about Linux?
I'm used to doing A LOT of work in a CLI, does Amiga have a powerful CLI (better than the Windoze CLI, with support for pipe's and stuff like that)?
The Amiga CLI is a lot better than Windoze but a lot less elaborate than Unix. Unlike Windoze, it is very bug free and things work the way you expect them to work.
Are there ports of my favorite programs, Emacs, Epic4, Lynx?
Emacs is included in Amiga OS under the name Memacs. I use it all the time. I work mostly with Classic Amigas. The newer versions of Amiga OS come with a more sophisticated GUI text editor but Memacs definitly does the job
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What does Amiga have that Unix doesnt?
Unix is a multitasking OS designed for a multiuser environment. Amiga OS is a multitasking OS designed for a single user. The Amiga is a graphics orientated system and even though it has a good CLI, it's strength is the way it deals with graphics--especailly moving graphics. There is very good application interoperabilty via the Arexx language and you can have several applications loaded in memory passing data--usally graphics data--to each other for processing.
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anon123 wrote:
I was considering AROS, what would you recommend I use? How does the Amiga forever thing compare (I perfer Free (as in freedom))?
From a programmers perspective, how is Amiga? Is the API clean? easy to use? powerful?
If it's free as in freedom you like, then its AROS you'll want to look into. While advanced over the non-opensource Amiga OSes in some respects, it's lacking in others. OS3.x and MorphOS are probably the most mature, meaning you can jump right in and start doing cool things, rather than worrying about a core system layer not being there.
I'm not a programmer, though I've tried to get into it several times. The Amiga API is extremely straightforward and everything is documented in things called 'autodocs'. They're little text files that give you an overview of all the commands and code templates for using shared libraries, includes, and devices.
A semi-famous sound sample from CanDo, a multimedia package from years ago, featured a person saying, "Programming the Amiga is like taking a vacation!"
Though its possible to do quick and dirty ports of Unix-type CLI tools, many such recompiles don't take advantage of the Amiga's unique features such as a GUI, interprocess communication, and centralized configuration data.
The core of Amiga programming is found in the ROM Kernel Reference Manuals, commonly abbreviated as the RKRMs or RKMs. They're a rather old (1991 is the last revision), but that was when the core API that's still with us today was codified. Digital copies of the RKMs and the autodocs for core system components are on the Developer's CD I mentioned earlier. There's really a lot of useful and historical material on there - you should really consider getting it. Software Hut (http://www.softhut.com), Vesalia (http://www,vesalia.de), or AmigaKit (http://www.amigakit.com) can probably sell you one for a fair price.
EDIT: AmiDevCPP (http://amidevcpp.amiga-world.de/) is a cross-compilation suite you may find useful as well
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The current AmigaOS version (OS4) is still free as in freedom :-) (i.e. not free as free of charge)
If you want to know more about it, read here (http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php%3Foption=content&task=view&id=9&Itemid=.html)
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@anon123
Compared to linux, there isn't much where amiga-like systems are "better" at. MUI is quite nice GUI system. Other than that, lack of memory protection, lack of resorce tracking, missing POSIX, missing java, missing flash, missing development tools etc make them such a bit (in comparison).
Well, if you're curious about the miggy programming, give WinUAE (http://www.winuae.net/) (or E-UAE (http://www.rcdrummond.net/uae/)) a try. For NDK, see NDK3.9.lzx (http://aweb.sunsite.dk/files/dev/NDK3.9.lzx) (unlzx.c (http://aminet.net/package/misc/unix/unlzx.c)). For development environment, there's GeekGadgets (which has many GNU tools, including gcc, make et all): GeekGadgets repo (http://ftp.back2roots.org/geekgadgets/). If you get serious about it, Amiga Developer CD 2.1 is a must (it contains tons of documentation and tools).
Don't get me wrong, amiga programming can be a lot of fun, but it doesn't even come close if you compare it to any serious platforms.
PS. I'm just trying to give somewhat more realistic reply here.
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If you can afford it, you should definitely look at AmigaOS 4.0 as it's by far the most complete AmigaOS I've used (in as much as it comes with compilers, SDK etc.) and is a very nice OS to use and code for.
The only problem is the opposite of AROS's main benefit - availability of hardware. AmigaOS 4 only runs on AmigaOne machines which are like hens' teeth. When somebody brings out a new machine, though (Sam?) be sure to check it out.
It does of course have the large advantage of being almost completely compatible with AmigaOS at a very good speed (AROS requires recompilations - you can't run Amiga binaries on it).
Unfortunately there's no easy way to test AmigaOS 4 though as hardware is impossible to come by and there's no emulators, but when hardware arrives I think it's the best solution if you can afford it. The Hyperion guys have done a fantastic job on it.
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Just a small correction, the Amiga does have pipes, but I don't know how it relates to the thing with the same name on Linux...
Unique thing ? Well probably not unique anymore but the datatypes system rocks completely. Windows still doesn't seem to have anything similar. It's a system that allows programmers to access any data format of certain classes by a uniform interface.
Other than that, the system resource efficiency, very fast boot time and the fact that it doesn't hide itself from the user.
I was gonna say very good multitasking but Linux has had that for ages too IIRC.
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With an Amiga ON YOUR HANDS you can do everything you can imagine:
Play the fastest and the best games you can ever imagine!
Work with esplendid multitasking,clean and beatiful programs!
Compose your own music modules or MIDI songs,among other
formats to make your music.
Animation,Painting,Network better than PC or MAC for example and of course enjoy living an amazing experience.
So its a chance you will never forget cause...
ONLY AMIGA MAKES IT POSSIBLE.
Thank you and good evening.
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'autodocs' sound like 'man' (manual) files from Unix, which are the bees nees! I was looking into hardware for OS4. My understanding is that it runs on PPC's, however, I can't find any other than Mac's, and Mac's have their hardware really closely integrated w/ their OS :( The only one i found was pegasos (http://www.pegasosppc.com/) , and im not sure it's what im looking for :-? :-? :-? :-?
I'm confused, how is OS4 licensed? :-? :-? :-? :-?
To clarify, pipes give the ability to pass the output of one shell command to the input of another. e.g.
ls | grep amiga
the output of 'ls' is piped (>>> | <<<) to the input of 'grep' which sorts the output based on it's content, in this case, the string 'amiga'.
I might try AROS, but i dont want to be unfair to Amiga and use an incomplete OS to make my judgement.
You say it is designed for 1 user, I assume it has multiuser support? :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o
Thanks for the prompt responses :-) :-)
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Somebody said OS4 is free but it isn't. It's closed-source commercial software for PowerPC. The most promising hardware platform to come into being recently for it is the SAM440EP (http://sam440.com/eng/index.html) but it isn't available for end-user consumption yet.
The pipe device is a lot different on the AmigaOS. It has a filename so if you want to maintain multiple streams of information you can.
run list >pipe:listoutput #?
more pipe:listoutput
This script listed above will pipe the output of the list command to the more filter. The run command causes the list command to run in a separate process. The #? filter is the equivalent of the * of UNIX/Linux. It means match multiple characters of an unknown number.
If you want multiuser support you'll have to write it yourself using shell scripts.
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'If you want multiuser support you'll have to write it yourself using shell scripts.'
Could you elaborate? Is that possible? I'll see if AROS is multiuser, if not, then I'll just add it (yay for open-source!).
I would appear that piping does the same thing, just in a slightly different fashion, am I correct? It looks like pipes in amiga are like file descriptors, which are maintained, unlike in Unix, where you simply pass the stream once, without naming it. That's great! :-)
Could I build my own amiga compatible hardware from parts? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Where can I find the spec's that genisi (or someone) made?
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Your best bet for running classic Amiga software (version 3.x) is to buy the Amiga Forever (http://www.amigaforever.com/) emulator package. It has a live boot based on Linux that automatically runs AmigaOS under EUAE. You should be able to run it on your Linux box from there. If you want to have a real classic Amiga system, watch Ebay for an Amiga 1200 system. It uses totally custom architecture so you can't just build one yourself.
As for NEW Amiga hardware, you'll have to wait until the SAM440EP comes out or get a MorphOS system running on the Efika motherboard from Genesi. (MorphOS is a spin-off of AmigaOS that uses many of the same features.)
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If you want multiuser support, you'll have to use the requestchoice command from the AmigaDOS shell and place your custom user-startup settings in the s:startup-sequence file.
If you want more AROS information, check out the forums on AROS-Exec.org (http://aros-exec.org/modules/news/)
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From a user point of view, I'd say that Amiga OS is fast and responsive, even on low-specced machines. For developers, the underlying design looks cleaner to me, and more logical. Also, seeing as development has been lagging behind, there are plenty of software projects available for you to have a go at.
AROS is not multi-user. There is a multi-user filesystem for the Amiga but AFAIK it doesn't work with Amiga OS4. Looking at the OS structures, multi-user support was planned, but never implemented. I guess that it's still on the to-do list.
For Amiga OS4 you're just going to have to wait to buy hardware. Once a motherboard is available, you should be able to piece together a machine the same way you do with an ordinary x86 PC. Just note that there aren't hardware drivers available for every piece of hardware out there. Genesi's hardware will not run Amiga OS4.
As you're into coding, utilitybase.com (http://utilitybase.com) is a good forum for asking questions regarding the OS structure and how to use various components.
Hans
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So amiga DOES have multiuser support, it just isn't fully used?
I meant build a box for OS4, which I think runs on PPC, or does it have a really special set up or something? Could someone explain the hardware aspect of modern amiga's to me, it's really bizarre :-?
I'll look into Amiga forever. When do you expect the SAM440EP to be ready?
What is AmigaDOS? Is it the shell? The underlying system/kernel? A separate OS?
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AmigaOS 4 is almost to the release stage but won't likely be released until there is available hardware to run it on. The SAM440EP is currently being mass-produced for customers capable of buying huge quantities. When that's done it will be released for the common masses. It will likely come out sometime this year but hardware for OS4 users has been difficult to come by in the past. I have a MicroA1-c which has a prerelease of AmigaOS 4 but to get the final version, you'll have to wait until it is published.
AmigaDOS is the shell. It is the underlying command prompt for administration purposes. And as for the requestchoice command, it just pops up a requester with buttons on it and returns the number of the button you pressed. It allows you to select which startup script to execute.
The ability to do multi-user filesystems has been available from the start, but AmigaOS filesystems never implemented that feature (with the possible exception of MuFS, a third-party add on). You'll be able to access all of the files regardless of what startup script you select. This would be like having root access on all of the accounts. :-(
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anon123 wrote:
So amiga DOES have multiuser support, it just isn't fully used?
Sort of. The MultiUserFilesystem was a 3rd party file-system that implemented users/groups and login functionality. Multi-user support should really be integrated into the OS fully (into AmigaDOS in particular). Unfortunately there is no Amiga OS4 native version yet.
I meant build a box for OS4, which I think runs on PPC, or does it have a really special set up or something? Could someone explain the hardware aspect of modern amiga's to me, it's really bizarre :-?
Yes the hardware situation is bizarre. Right now, Amiga Inc. insists that only licensed PowerPC hardware is allowed to run Amiga OS4. Amiga Inc. and Genesi hate each other for historical reasons and won't cooperate with each other. Therefore the Pegasos sadly won't run Amiga OS4, even though there's no technical reason why it can't. It would be fairly trivial for them to write the necessary drivers/bootstrap code for those machines.
Currently Amiga OS4 runs on the Amigaone hardware (I have one of these) which is no longer available for purchase. It will be available to classic Amiga owners (such as the A1200/A4000) that have PowerPC accelerators plugged in.
I'll look into Amiga forever. When do you expect the SAM440EP to be ready?
The hardware is pretty much done (see here (http://www.acube-systems.com/eng/index.php). We're just waiting for Amiga Inc. to give them a license. Hopefully they're already working on writing drivers for it so that Amiga OS4 can run on it.
NOTE: AmigaForever is for the classic Amiga only, that's up to Amiga OS3.9.
What is AmigaDOS? Is it the shell? The underlying system/kernel? A separate OS?
AmigaDOS is the disk operating system for the Amiga. It's a sub-component of the OS that handles file access (files including pipes and other streaming devices).
Hans
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Hans_ wrote:
Yes the hardware situation is bizarre. Right now, Amiga Inc. insists that only licensed PowerPC hardware is allowed to run Amiga OS4. Amiga Inc. and Genesi hate each other for historical reasons and won't cooperate with each other. Therefore the Pegasos sadly won't run Amiga OS4, even though there's no technical reason why it can't. It would be fairly trivial for them to write the necessary drivers/bootstrap code for those machines.
Currently Amiga OS4 runs on the Amigaone hardware (I have one of these) which is no longer available for purchase. It will be available to classic Amiga owners (such as the A1200/A4000) that have PowerPC accelerators plugged in.
Just to clarify, the Pegasos 1 and 2 are discontinued hardware, and the Pegasos 3 only supports PowerPC Linux due to multicore processor usage. AmigaOS doesn't support SMP currently, nor does MorphOS.
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"It would be fairly trivial for them to write the necessary drivers/bootstrap code for those machines."
Would this require the code or deep knowledge of the machine to write? What exactly is missing? Drivers? Bootloader? Why hasn't somebody (3rd party) written it? Why can't I write it?
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SamuraiCrow wrote:
Just to clarify, the Pegasos 1 and 2 are discontinued hardware, and the Pegasos 3 only supports PowerPC Linux due to multicore processor usage. AmigaOS doesn't support SMP currently, nor does MorphOS.
It the Pegasos 3 already available? Even without SMP support, you could always disable one core until SMP support is added.
Hans
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@Hans
The Pegasos 3 has/will have dual PowerPC 970MP processors (two cores each). And I don't know when it will ship.
@Anon123
The bootstrap code would require that the Pegasos 2 have a licence to run AmigaOS 4. AmigaOS 4 is not published in its final form yet. And, as I mentioned earlier, AmigaOS 4 is a closed-source, commercial operating system.
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@ anon123
The only thing preventing OS4 from running on generic PPC platforms like Macs and the Pegasos is some sort of legal stupidity. The code changes needed to be able to boot it on something other than AmigaONE hardware could probably be accomplished within a week (and some claim to have done it privately), but Amiga, Inc., the trademark owners, are being jerks about allowing such a thing. Right now, the only way to get an OS4 system is to buy one secondhand. Very few were made to begin with and those who have them are likely to hold onto them.
The SAM440 board may change this, but don't hold your breath. It'll be months at the minimum, based on past timelines.
Multiuser support is not built into AmigaOS. It can be added to OS3.x systems through a third-party add-on. this (http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/mufs4514p) is the latest version for 3.9 systems, and this (http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/MultiUser18bin) is the base package for older 3.x systems.
Your best bet is to set up an OS3.x emulation environment and start experimenting!
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AmigaOS does not have multiuser support of any usable kind. Anyone trying to suggest multiuser.library and muFS are just kidding themselves.
IMO muFS is kind of pointless exercise, as there is no memory protection anyway.
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You say some "claim" to have done it privately, have any of these people released their code? Is their a doc somewhere explaining in depth how the Amiga boot sequence works? Could someone point me in that direction, I would like to attempt this (running Amiga on a pegasos or a mac).
What hardware can I run 3.9 on?
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@anon123
What hardware can I run 3.9 on?
You linux boxen for example. See the E-UAE link I posted earlier.
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@Piru
Piru wrote:
AmigaOS does not have multiuser support of any usable kind. Anyone trying to suggest multiuser.library and muFS are just kidding themselves.
IMO muFS is kind of pointless exercise, as there is no memory protection anyway.
What does multi-user support have to do with memory protection? Multi-user functionality is just supposed to be a method of making sure that user's have their own environment and don't get at each others files. MuFS does that.
MuFS is not secure in any way; to access a whole partition you only need to change the partition back to FFS and you have unrestricted access to the whole drive. However, I see that as a security issue, not multi-user functionality. If you're really serious about protecting your data you should use encryption and back up your files regularly.
Having said all that, it'd be nice if someone integrated secure multi-user support to the OS. Like you said, a few prerequisites are required first.
Hans
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What does multi-user support have to do with memory protection? Multi-user functionality is just supposed to be a method of making sure that user's have their own environment and don't get at each others files. MuFS does that.
Without memory protection any user can poke some magic location in the filesystem and make all files accessable.
From the multiuser README:
Introduction
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MultiUser allows you to create a *IX-like environment where several users live
together in harmony, unable to delete each others files, unable to read those
private love-letters of other users. And this even if several users are
working on the machine at the same time (on a terminal hooked up to the serial
port)
People without a valid login ID and password won't be able to access files you
have made private with MultiUser. If you make all files private (not readable
for others), the only useful thing they could do, is boot from a floppy.
MuFS doesn't give any of the other true multiuser benefits, such as user specific preferences, or separated user home directories.
So what is left? Supposedly separate file owner info and access permissions, which are trivially hacked.
muFS is even more pointless as muFS user/group info isn't synced with the user/group stuff in the TCP/IP stack. So you have two sets of users and groups to maintain, and you can easily get them out of sync.
MuFS is pointless.
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anon123 wrote:
You say some "claim" to have done it privately, have any of these people released their code?
No, they can't because Amiga, Inc. will try to sue the pants off them.
Is their a doc somewhere explaining in depth how the Amiga boot sequence works? Could someone point me in that direction,
This (http://www.amigawiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Boot_Sequence) is the boot sequence for classic machines. The AmigaONE and Pegasos have additional steps at the beginning that I'm not entirely familiar with, as they have additonal firmware layers that the classic machines don't.
I would like to attempt this (running Amiga on a pegasos or a mac).
Not worth trying, especially since you can't get either the source or binaries of OS4. Either get UAE or a Pegasos with MorphOS.
What hardware can I run 3.9 on?
Any classic Amiga with a 68020 or higher processor and 8MB of RAM, or UAE.
Get UAE.
UAE will answer most of your questions.
It's easy to use.
Amiga Forever (http://www.amigaforever.com) is a commercial distribution of UAE that comes with everything you need to set up a system.
Try it. You'll like it.
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Piru wrote:
What does multi-user support have to do with memory protection? Multi-user functionality is just supposed to be a method of making sure that user's have their own environment and don't get at each others files. MuFS does that.
Without memory protection any user can poke some magic location in the filesystem and make all files accessable.
That's a security issue, not a multi-user filesystem issue. The file-system does provide multi-user file access restrictions, even if it's not that hard to circumvent them. It's not secure enough for critical systems by any means, but it's good enough to prevent non-hackers from accessing/deleting the wrong files.
From the multiuser README:
Introduction
------------
MultiUser allows you to create a *IX-like environment where several users live
together in harmony, unable to delete each others files, unable to read those
private love-letters of other users. And this even if several users are
working on the machine at the same time (on a terminal hooked up to the serial
port)
People without a valid login ID and password won't be able to access files you
have made private with MultiUser. If you make all files private (not readable
for others), the only useful thing they could do, is boot from a floppy.
MuFS doesn't give any of the other true multiuser benefits, such as user specific preferences, or separated user home directories.
User specific preferences or separated home directories is not the job of a file-system, that's something that the desktop part of the OS should provide. Some people have been doing that with scripts.
So what is left? Supposedly separate file owner info and access permissions, which are trivially hacked.
Yep. That's about it.
muFS is even more pointless as muFS user/group info isn't synced with the user/group stuff in the TCP/IP stack. So you have two sets of users and groups to maintain, and you can easily get them out of sync.
I didn't know about this (never actually needed MuFS). That is definitely a problem. The Roadshow networking stack for OS4 doesn't have users/groups (at least, not in the preferences). I'd say that users/groups handling should be part of AmigaDOS, not the TCP/IP stack.
MuFS is pointless.
I'd say, ALMOST pointless. ;-)
Way back in 2000 some people were going to work on MuFS 2 which was supposed to address the security issues and AmiTCP integration. Sadly, there's been no news from them in 6 years. The current Amiga OS4 release has a certain amount of memory protection that could be used (e.g., you can allocate private memory), so that could be used (for OS4 only). It should really be built in to Amiga DOS though.
Hans
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@Hans
Sadly, there's been no news from them in 6 years.
To put it in other words, they are no longer using/coding for/sold/your-preference-here Amiga.
It is pointless to attempt to pretend there are developers working on muFS or that Amiga will go multiuser. Amiga is single user system and hacks added on top of it do not change it.
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The current Amiga OS4 release has a certain amount of memory protection that could be used (e.g., you can allocate private memory), so that could be used (for OS4 only).
That wouldn't work (as protection) anyway, as user is always running with "root" privileges. So any malware could just use whatever is needed make the memory writable, poke in the patch, and then write protect the memory again.
For multiuser to be really secure, the underlying system must be built from ground to have proper access control. Basically this would require total OS rewrite, basing it on some BSD (unix) like kernel.
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@Piru
Piru wrote:
The current Amiga OS4 release has a certain amount of memory protection that could be used (e.g., you can allocate private memory), so that could be used (for OS4 only).
That wouldn't work (as protection) anyway, as user is always running with "root" privileges. So any malware could just use whatever is needed make the memory writable, poke in the patch, and then write protect the memory again.
For multiuser to be really secure, the underlying system must be built from ground to have proper access control. Basically this would require total OS rewrite, basing it on some BSD (unix) like kernel.
I said private memory, not read-only memory. Private memory should, in theory, only be accessable by the task that created it. Therefore, only the task that created it should be able to change it's protection status. I have no idea if this is actually the case in the current implementation.
Point taken though.
Hans
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@Hans-
Private memory should, in theory, only be accessable by the task that created it. Therefore, only the task that created it should be able to change it's protection status.
Even if it was, it's trivial to patch some OS function and make it do some dirty work. This way the malware can "force" the correct task to do it's evil bidding.
Similar patches were used against current multiuser already.
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The correct question now should be: Why you shouldn't use amiga anymore?
:lol: :-P
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anon123 wrote:
I am a hobby programmer with experience in Linux. I'm interested in alternative O/S's and Amiga caught my eye. I figure if the user-base is so dedicated, there must be something to it. From both a user and developer point of view, what makes Amiga (modern, MorphOS, AROS, OS4 etc.) so good?
It was very ahead of it's times, but it sadly is now starting to lag behind modern systems due to the fact that it has not really been developed since commodore vanished in 94.
So you have to remember that it lacks some essential features like full memory protection, multiuser capability and similar. It does however still have some advantages, like the rad disk, small footprint, pre emptive multitasking, dataypes and so on.
I also like how the libs go into the libs drawer, the executables go into c, drivers going into devs, monitor conf going into monitors, filesystem goes into dosdrivers and so on.. If you need to add a driver or filesystem, you just simply drag and drop it into the appropriate drawer.
Also you can simply install games/software just by dragging the folder over to your hd and then just delete it once you dont want it anymore, which means no need for painful install and uninstall process that often leaves traces.
But remember that it right now is more of a hobby system, and thus cannot really be compared to even linux since it lacks things like a decent browser and features like memory protection. It is however very pleasant to use as long as you keep in mind the current limitations.
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I was considering AROS, what would you recommend I use? How does the Amiga forever thing compare (I perfer Free (as in freedom))?
Aros has absolutely nothing now in terms of software base compared to AmigaOS 3.x, 4.0 and MorphOS. I only recommend Aros if you yourself want to spend time improving it by developing software or improving upon Aros itself. It is just not ready for end users yet.
Amiga Forever is basically just a emulator package which includes the classic AmigaOS, so it wont be the same as running it native.
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What hardware can I run 3.9 on?
Only on the classic range. I recommend a upgraded a1200, a4000 or a a3000 for this purpose. Plenty of these sells on ebay.
You can also run it under the emulator uae/amigaforver.