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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2007, 07:26:47 PM

Title: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2007, 07:26:47 PM
I didnt get it to boot up on my PC..I think it was hardware related..I think.. I havent tried w/my new PC (selling it actually and building another one)... so if I copy it and send the ISO to someone...is it illegal or is that piece of kit freeware already?
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: Piru on April 18, 2007, 07:33:34 PM
Well, I haven't seen any mention of it becoming freeware, and frankly, considering the sour relationship between the authors, I doubt it could ever become that.

Also, didn't Amithlon include (parts of) AmigaOS too? If so, that'd make it quite difficult to make the whole freeware...
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: CannonFodder on April 18, 2007, 07:52:06 PM
Why don;t you just post the boxed copy to the other person?

That would be legal in most countries.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: NoFastMem on April 18, 2007, 07:53:30 PM
If you don't intend to use it again I'd suggest mailing the disc(s) and avoiding any ambiguity.

If you want to share it, no... Of course that's not legal.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: XDelusion on April 18, 2007, 08:00:40 PM
You are you're own master! No one owns you! :)
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2007, 08:01:02 PM
is it worth keeping around?  or is E-UAE/UAE a better emulator?

Any one of you booting into Amithlon on a regular basis?
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: c64_d0c on April 18, 2007, 08:03:20 PM
as long its not a product still for sale and you dont earn money on the distribut, then i see no problem with it and who cares anyway....
________
WATER BONG (http://glassbongs.org/)
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2007, 08:04:37 PM
Quote
You are you're own master! No one owns you! :)


:lol:

true.  I've got copies of alot of stuff from my Amiga days.  I'm not an angel by any means.   I was just wondering if it was worth keeping, meaning am I just getting rid of something I could use later?  
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: motorollin on April 18, 2007, 08:07:58 PM
It would be illegal to make copies of it since it includes AmigaOS 3.x. #?UAE is a better emulation as it emulates the custom chips (Amithlon doesn't, which is one of the reasons why it is so fast).

--
moto
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: pixie on April 18, 2007, 08:08:19 PM
Bernd Meyer said that at least where his credits are due has no problem, for the rest of the software, it's not really up to him...
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2007, 08:10:51 PM
Quote
It would be illegal to make copies of it since it includes AmigaOS 3.x. #?UAE is a better emulation as it emulates the custom chips (Amithlon doesn't, which is one of the reasons why it is so fast).


ok, so I'm not missing anything.  Its as good as gone.  thanks!
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: CannonFodder on April 18, 2007, 11:26:21 PM
Quote

TheMagicM wrote:
Quote
It would be illegal to make copies of it since it includes AmigaOS 3.x. #?UAE is a better emulation as it emulates the custom chips (Amithlon doesn't, which is one of the reasons why it is so fast).


ok, so I'm not missing anything.  Its as good as gone.  thanks!


WTF!?!?!?

Amithlon is amazing.  Much better than UAE for running anything that doesn't bang the hardware.  It has it's own UAE too. :-)
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: guru-666 on April 18, 2007, 11:41:23 PM
it is totaly worth keeping around, and I do think they update the drives still!  I lie ti better than uae for sure... but its differnt
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: humppa on April 18, 2007, 11:55:37 PM
Quote
it is totaly worth keeping around, and I do think they update the drives still!


"They" basically equals to the great work of Dr. Bombcrater. (http://www.garycvl.f2s.com/amithlon.html) Don't forget to donate if you find his kernel/modules useful.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: guru-666 on April 19, 2007, 12:27:50 AM
if you copy it and send it to somebody else... that makes you a hero!  

esp if you are not using it!!!

Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: bloodline on April 19, 2007, 12:39:51 AM
I don't think there has ever been a legal distribution of Amithlon...
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: billchase on April 19, 2007, 01:18:03 AM
Hmmm...Interesting Point.

C Snyder
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: MaDDuck on April 19, 2007, 01:42:13 AM
yes
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: MaDDuck on April 19, 2007, 01:42:47 AM
wait...no


nevermind
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: AJS on April 19, 2007, 07:02:47 PM
You might like to have a look at this thread especially the post by Dr BombcraterAmithlon (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22932&forum=27)

It seems that its part owned by A few people ( including A Inc  :-o )
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: a-pex on April 19, 2007, 07:31:37 PM
Nice installation guide in english for amithlon
http://www.a1k.org/forum/index.php?mode=viewthread&forum_id=22&thread=19&z=1
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: robo-ant on April 20, 2007, 04:05:48 AM
> Any one of you booting into Amithlon on a regular basis?

I'm running Amithlon right now, and I love it.  I bought a 2nd-hand PC about a year ago, specifically to run Amithlon on. (It has no other OS on it.)

The Amithlon machine is my primary computer now.  I run the 'real' Amigas from time to time for old games (my PC is too slow to run them correctly in E-UAE on top of Amithlon) but at least 95% of my home computing is done using Amithlon now.


It's a real shame Amiga did what they did.  Amithlon is a winner.

As for sharing it, that would not be legal, but I don't think that would stop me from running a second copy on a laptop if I found a cheap compatible one.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: weirdami on April 20, 2007, 05:02:22 AM
@c64_d0c

Quote
as long its not a product still for sale and you dont earn money on the distribut, then i see no problem with it and who cares anyway....


So, lets all band together and boycott everything except one copy of everything one of us bought. Then, we wait. Wait. Alright, they stopped selling everything anymore. Time to break out the copier.
 
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: a-pex on April 20, 2007, 09:03:49 AM
Quote

So, lets all band together and boycott everything except one copy of everything one of us bought. Then, we wait. Wait. Alright, they stopped selling everything anymore. Time to break out the copier.


Strange comment?!? I see no problem in distributing Amithlon to help other amiga users to get such a system... Why not? Who cares for apes inc. :) You will harm nobody, because Amithlon was/is a product that is not buyable since several years...


But I am not distributing it, I have original hardware. ;)
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: bloodline on April 20, 2007, 11:11:39 AM
Quote

a-pex wrote:
Quote

So, lets all band together and boycott everything except one copy of everything one of us bought. Then, we wait. Wait. Alright, they stopped selling everything anymore. Time to break out the copier.


Strange comment?!? I see no problem in distributing Amithlon to help other amiga users to get such a system... Why not? Who cares for apes inc. :) You will harm nobody, because Amithlon was/is a product that is not buyable since several years...


It doesn't matter if it harms nobody, and it doesn't matter that we may want to hurt "Apes Inc" (sic), but the fact is you will be breaching copyright and that is illegal. You can't pick and choose the laws you want to follow, if you expect the law to protect you you have to follow the law.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: a-pex on April 20, 2007, 01:21:42 PM
Quote

It doesn't matter if it harms nobody, and it doesn't matter that we may want to hurt "Apes Inc" (sic), but the fact is you will be breaching copyright and that is illegal. You can't pick and choose the laws you want to follow, if you expect the law to protect you you have to follow the law.


Do not forgett to say that USING, even if you bought it at the beginning legally, is not allowed too, because there is no official licence!!!

Now everybody has to delete his installation, if he want to follow the laws that protect him...
 
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: Cymric on April 20, 2007, 02:41:55 PM
Quite correct. Legally, all copies of Amithlon are void unless you own an Amiga yourself (or a copy of Cloanto's AmigaForever) and do not use it at the same time as Amithlon.

Practically, who gives a damn. I mean, really: the product is no longer sold, nor could it ever be sold in the form it was published; noone is able to pay the lawyer bill based on the sales of his product alone in order to ask for advice, let alone settle this matter properly in court. It's nice that we all agree on what's legal and what not, but the market itself has become so small, fragmented and muddied over the years that keeping that stiff upper lip is now much more of a nuisance rather than an asset in keeping the scene alive. Apart from a few brave companies who still back-port their main software (which has long since been moved to the Windows or Mac platform), that's all the Amiga has left, anyway. Even AmigaOS4 is basically stillborn because there is no new hardware being made for the platform. (Unless, of course, it is the new OS of that embedded gizmo ACube put out the other day.)

You can, of course, wait for as long as the law says you must until you are in the clear (70 years after the author's death, with the exception of the US where thanks to Disney you have to wait an additional 25 years), but by that time you really won't be using an Amiga anymore. Not even for hobby purposes.

The situation reminds me to some extent of the scene in Monty Python's The Meaning Of Life where the British army has just been decimated by Zulus, and the officers keep on doing what they always do, namely pretending the real world happens to other people and that there are tigers to be found in Africa.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: TheMagicM on April 20, 2007, 04:06:03 PM
Quote
You can't pick and choose the laws you want to follow


of course you can..  I do that every day.  :lol:

being that even using it is illegal I guess a backup wouldnt hurt anyone.  Disclaimer: That is assuming I would want to back it up or was going to.   there..that should keep the anti-piracy folks happy.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: bhoggett on April 21, 2007, 12:15:06 AM
Quote

Cymric wrote:
Quite correct. Legally, all copies of Amithlon are void unless you own an Amiga yourself (or a copy of Cloanto's AmigaForever) and do not use it at the same time as Amithlon.

I would dispute that. People bought - and indeed sold - Amithlon in good faith for some time before Amiga Inc chose to make their dispute with Haage & Partner known. Since Amigs Inc were not unaware of the product and even demonstrated it themselves (they were also the ones who handed over distribution rights to H&P even though those rights weren't theirs to give at the time), so to say that every copy of Amithlon out there is illegal is somewhat dubious.

Is it legal to distribute the ISO now? Clearly not, and no one could possibly endorse such activity or give you permission to do so. Will anyone care if you choose to ignore the law? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: bhoggett on April 21, 2007, 12:16:15 AM
Quote

TheMagicM wrote:
being that even using it is illegal

That's a myth.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: Cymric on April 21, 2007, 12:50:28 PM
Quote
bhoggett wrote:
Quote
Cymric wrote:
Quite correct. Legally, all copies of Amithlon are void unless you own an Amiga yourself (or a copy of Cloanto's AmigaForever) and do not use it at the same time as Amithlon.

I would dispute that. People bought - and indeed sold - Amithlon in good faith for some time before Amiga Inc chose to make their dispute with Haage & Partner known. Since Amigs Inc were not unaware of the product and even demonstrated it themselves (they were also the ones who handed over distribution rights to H&P even though those rights weren't theirs to give at the time), so to say that every copy of Amithlon out there is illegal is somewhat dubious.

I'm sorry, but 'good faith' has little to do with one party not having the license to distribute another party's copyrighted / trademarked / ... work. No license = not legal. (In the strict juridical sense of the word, without all that crap about 'morals' and 'right' and 'wrong'.) Notice that I specifically allowed for a loophole: namely when a buyer 'in good faith' is able to supply the disputed software on his own without breaking any of his licenses.

What does make it dubious is the fact that AInc 'diluted' their rights  by not immediately responding to the fact that H&P distributed software without a proper license. (Although this is new to me, I couldn't find this bit in the descriptions of Amithlon's demise.) It would depend on AInc's history in defending their rights how a judge would rule: this is the reason that Apple and other companies are so incredibly quick to file scary lawsuits to even the slightest infringements of their work. If they don't, they might not have a case in the future.

All in all, I agree with you partially. It depends on how the owner is using the software, as well as AInc's efforts to protecting its copyrights to decide whether it is genuinely illegal or not. But since it will require big bucks on lawyer fees to find out for sure---big bucks everybody would rather spend on things they like, such as feeding the kitty (<--- that one, for example)---the matter will go unanswered, and will very likely remain so until the end of time.

Quote
Is it legal to distribute the ISO now? Clearly not, and no one could possibly endorse such activity or give you permission to do so. Will anyone care if you choose to ignore the law? I doubt it.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Is it illegal to distribute Amithlon?
Post by: rdolores on April 21, 2007, 01:54:53 PM
I am a regular Amithlon user since about a year ago when I installed it on an older PIII-1000 with some help from an Amithlon guide from A1K.org as mentioned by A-Pex.

It works best with older machines about 5-6 years ago. I use it mainly for networking on my home network and the Internet (WWW, FTP). I can also access files on my Windows2000 domain server as well as a network printer.

You can get it to work on newer machines, but you will need the updated kernals and drivers from Gary Colville.

Its faster than any of my Classic Amigas. But it does not emulate the custom chips. So for software that requires custom chip support, you're better off with WinUAE.

As far as legality, if you have a real Amiga (OS3.9) or Amigal Forever, that should cover the license requirements for the ROM's and OS.