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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: trekiej on March 28, 2007, 12:17:24 AM
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I am getting back into Linux. I have been reading on RHEL 4.
What are your views of Linux?
Rick.
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I've been using suse since version 8 and using linux since 92... works great.. linux rocks.
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I've been using Linux for years. I've tried Slackware, Red Hat (and then Fedora Core), Mandrake, Debian, Mepis, Knoppix... the list goes on. I've finally settled on Kubuntu -- I really enjoy it.
Yeah, Linux is worth it. 100% free, and quite sturdy.
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Well, I've d/led the Amiga versions of Debian & NetBSD versions of Linux. Does anyone have any experience installing either of them on an A1200? I'm planning on installing 1 of them about a month from now since I've got so much on my plate right now.
I think I read somewhere that there's an unofficial version of RedHat for the Amiga. Does anyone know if this is true, and if it is, where can I get it?
Are there any other versions of Linux for the Amiga?
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Linux is the way. Although I still have the winblows installed because of the superior WINUae. I recommend any Ubuntu flavor, it has a perfect online packet manager and very user friendly. My personal preference is the Xubuntu because it's lightweight.
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You need at least a 68030 cpu to install linux on your A1200 (it needs the MMU). AFAIK, the most up-to-date 68k port of linux is the debian one, although it's future seems uncertain at the moment.
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countzero wrote:
You need at least a 68030 cpu to install linux on your A1200 (it needs the MMU). AFAIK, the most up-to-date 68k port of linux is the debian one, although it's future seems uncertain at the moment.
I've got a P5 Blizzard 1260.
Now why would Debian's future be uncertain? I'm clueless. :-?
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I like Redhat. It sometimes has a tough time installing but runs well.
I got into Linux in 96. I had to have a stack of disks and a copy of rawrite. It was not long someone made a bootable cd. hurray!
I use RedHat FC4 on a Dell Poweredge 1300. It installs the smp Kernel and runs good. I wish I had some more memory. I think Linux is racing Vizsta for the Bloat Ware Award.
I hate dependencies. :angry:
I need to draw the Tux Penguin with diapers on.
Later.
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Software Hut has two listings.
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There's a discussion going on in the 68k debian mailing list for future directions. I didn't read it fully, but it seems there's disaggreement between the developers as to which way to take. Some options include, providing coldfire support, staying pure m68, supporting emulation (aranym ?) and stuff like that. Also, debian management doesn't seem to like the fact that 68k port can't keep up with the x86 releases (which is pretty normal I think). I hope they don't stop supporting the m68k.
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Does anyone have any insight on the directory structure of Linux or could point me to a source?
I understand that it comes from System V.
I hope the 68K version stays around.
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I hate dependencies.
That's why you use something else than RedHat. RedHat is notoriously bad in package management.
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Does anyone have any insight on the directory structure of Linux or could point me to a source?
There is no fixed standard, each distribution has it's own (and no the kernel doesn't have any directory structure either). However, related distributions have very similar structure, say all the debian based distros. some common features are pretty standard, such as /usr /lib /var /etc /home. How files are distributed in these dirs is completely another topic and distros do differ.
There have been some attempts (http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/LSB) to standardize the structure, but they haven't been very successful. LSB is probably the best attempt so far, but it isn't perfect either.
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I've been running Gentoo a couple of years.. now I'm on Kubuntu... Great ubuntu based distro...
Dependencies have never gotten me mad :)
Here's the (k)ubuntu structure from the root /:
bin
boot
dev
etc
home
initrd
lib
media
mnt
opt
proc
root
sbin
srv
sys
tmp
usr
var
most notably imho are the "media" directory
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now I'm on Kubuntu... Great ubuntu based distro.
...which in turn is Debian based. A Good Thing (TM)
Dependencies have never gotten me mad :)
APT rulez ;-)
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Could you tell me about APT?
I hope to find a way to help ease the dependency situation one day.
Having high speed internet is one way. I could download as I need. I have modem. : ( Yuk!
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@ Rabbi
The Amiga version of RedHat is absolutely ancient and probably not worth considering. Dependencies were bad with RedHat a mere 4 years ago, and the Amiga port is even older...
I recently switched from Debian to Ubuntu on my Pegasos as it's much easier to use for a Linux n00b like me (more functional out-of-the-box).
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Wikipedia: Advanced Packaging Tool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Packaging_Tool)
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I'm a Slackware guy, but Debian (or its derivatives like Ubuntu) is also a great distro.
Learning the apt tool chain (like apt-get) will solve most of your "dependency" problems. They only time you'll be having any is if you're hacking your distro by installing stuff by hand. There's not reason you should be getting any problems with the distro supplied installations tools (apt for Debians and pkgtools for Slackwarez)
As for the future of Debian/Linux m68k, it has always been shaky as far as I recall since the late 90's when using it on a 68k Mac... But yes, I would certainly hope they don't give up on it, because that means no more Linux on Amigas, Macs, Ataris(?), lots of Sun 68k machines, etc
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(http://room119.air-nifty.com/natural/img/i_hate_linux.gif)
:-D :-D :-D
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(http://room119.air-nifty.com/natural/img/i_hate_linux.gif)
And proud hater too :-D :-D
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I'm slowly coming around. I'm big on open source (read:a big cheapo). Mostly want to get away from micro$oft and its many ways of irking conputer users.
I'd really like to set up Quake2, as I am an addict. Can anyone out there point to a tutrial that explains how to do so?
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That's why you use something else than RedHat. RedHat is notoriously bad in package management.
Why that? Both yum (Fedora) and up2date (RHEL) work absolutely fine for me.
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I've been using Linux since 1994. I'm no dedicated Linux lover, I love all sorts of UNIX. Sun Solaris, SGI IRIX, OpenBSD, you name it. When Apple introduced MacOSX I was completely sold. Switched two years ago, haven't looked back.
Windows is OK too, I use it at work every day, but I wouldn't use it at home, it's way too.. uh.. "not me".
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@mgerics
I'd really like to set up Quake2, as I am an addict. Can anyone out there point to a tutrial that explains how to do so?
With any decent distribution, as root:
apt-get install quake2
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mgerics wrote:
I'd really like to set up Quake2, as I am an addict. Can anyone out there point to a tutrial that explains how to do so?
Hmm... shouldn't be too difficult. You might want to have a look at quake2forge (http://www.quakeforge.net). Which distro are you running? Probably there are also pre-compiled packages. On my FreeBSD box I just had to do a "portinstall quake2forge" :-D
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@Colani1200
That's why you use something else than RedHat. RedHat is notoriously bad in package management.
Why that?
RPM Hell (http://www.germane-software.com/~ser/Files/Essays/RPM_Hell.html)
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Piru wrote:
RPM Hell (http://www.germane-software.com/~ser/Files/Essays/RPM_Hell.html)
You normally don't use RPM directly. There are frontends like yum or up2date. (Like apt-get for dpkg).
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I'm using Debian (occasionally). I like the aptget system; its ease-of-use. I tried suse years ago, and was frustrated with the fact that NONE of the programs I tried to compile (and 99% of them required compiling) would work. Even if they did, they depended on other-non-installed-software.
I had to waste some time configuring Debian. Biggest problem (on ANY LINUX/UNIX) for me was damn FONTS. Because of Adobe copyright you need to recompile the font software so that you enable real hinting with nonantialiased fonts. Some people like aliasing fonts but sadly I'm used to Windows and anyways sharper text is easier to read.
BTW, my first problem was mouse: " edit XF86Config-4, Section "InputDevice" /dev/psaux "
configuring APT to work with active FTP and HTTP proxy took some time, as well as SAMBA for file and printer stuff.
but it was fun..
:-)
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Ive been using Kubuntu for about a year, and in general I'm pretty happy with it for day to day stuff but I still use Win2000/XP for games and when I need to get things done quickly in a more familiar environment.
Recently started with DSL too, which is a nice quick package.
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yum indeed helps. RH dependicies were total pain before. However, yum doesn't (well can't) fix some of the other issues with rpm.
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I've been using Linux since '98, started with Suse but quickly changed to Mandrake wich I used for several years. I've tried many different distro's but I find Ubuntu/Debian the best. For the last two years I've been running Ubuntu on my laptop, desktop and Pegasos II.
I am using 3 different window managers, Windowmaker, E17 and Xfce, Windowmaker is my favorite. Yes, I like lightweight window managers.
I even confinced my mom to switch to Linux a couple of years ago. She's loving it and I don't have to fix her Windows anymore :-P
To be honest I even like Linux more than Amiga OS.
Who needs Windows...
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Now look what I started.
:-D
I want to thank all.
Linux has brought me a way to get into computing without spending alot of money on an OS.
I like Linux but it is not perfect either.
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@Piru
Tried that, but it won't run afterward.
Using kubuntu.
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@mgerics
Works with debian.
Ohwell.
Is there some specific error?
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mgerics wrote:
@Piru
Tried that, but it won't run afterward.
Using kubuntu.
Did you use 'sudo quake2-data' to install Quake2 from CD?
Also you've got to run quake2 from terminal because you have to answer a security question with 'y' to start the game.
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I have used just about all linux dists. Basicaly I test for easy of installation and if a linux noob could do it.
The two dists that stand out are the new Sabayon (gentoo based) dist, which is the most complete and compatable (with windows funtionality) out of the box. Everything works even DVD playback and all the main plugins for browsers. The biggest draw back is it is a custom compile on install and update so it takes a long time even doing simple updates seems to take forever.
The second dist is PCLinux OS (the one I currently use). It is based on Mandriva (2 years ago it was the best for noobs) which is based on RedHat (completely different development now). This is a live CD based dist. It installs fast and updates fast. It has all you need but most apps are installed over interent. There are draw backs you have to figure out Synaptics yourself and NVidia and ATI drivers have to be installed and activated through Synaptics and then Graphics server settings plus is that dvdcss is an installable package through Synaptics (This is the lib needed to watch protected DVD under linux. They do have a great forums area and the linux gurus seem to live there. Not as nooby as Sabayon.
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I got a Knoppix 5 DVD months ago and finally got it working several days ago after finding some hardware problems.
I have little experience yet, but it's a huge 10 Gig distro. It seems that they bundled every software package available into it. It also includes a number of user interfaces ( KDE, Gnome, etc) and the ability to switch between them on the fly, cool!
I like the "Initiating start-up sequence" during boot-up. That inspired the VoiceOFAmiga.lha collection on Aminet.
I'm impressed. I'll be exploring this for a long time. Free modern OS and software that runs fast on old, inexpensive hardware. Hard to not like it.
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I've heard that a knock-off of the Amiga environment was put together. I wonder if it includes a RamDisk.
Has any tried this?
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Sounds like Linux Hosted AROS (http://www.aros.org) to me..
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Sorry, I didn't spell it out very well. I've heard of GUI themes with gadgets and operation that mimic the Amiga's Workbench. I actually doubt that someone went so far as to code a RamDisk as well.
As mentioned in another post, however, Worker is a dir util for linux and a very near clone of Dopus 4.xx.
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trekiej wrote:
I am getting back into Linux. I have been reading on RHEL 4.
What are your views of Linux?
Rick.
I would not say that i am fan, but i prefer it over Windows.
A distro like ubuntu is also nearly as user friendly as Windows and is even easier to install and maintain providing that your hardware is supported. What takes away a bit, is that each distro use different standards, which means that you cannot simply download a redhat rpm and expect to run it on ubuntu and vice versa.
I strongly recommend ubuntu over redhat
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Colani1200 wrote:
Piru wrote:
RPM Hell (http://www.germane-software.com/~ser/Files/Essays/RPM_Hell.html)
You normally don't use RPM directly. There are frontends like yum or up2date. (Like apt-get for dpkg).
Still works much less better than apt on lets say debian or ubuntu. And yes, i have tried redhat recently.
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@Tenacious
I actually doubt that someone went so far as to code a RamDisk as well.
Dynamic ramdisk has been in the linux kernel since 2.4.
mkdir /mnt/ramdisk
mount -t tmpfs none /mnt/ramdisk
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Tomas wrote:
Colani1200 wrote:
Piru wrote:
RPM Hell (http://www.germane-software.com/~ser/Files/Essays/RPM_Hell.html)
You normally don't use RPM directly. There are frontends like yum or up2date. (Like apt-get for dpkg).
Still works much less better than apt on lets say debian or ubuntu. And yes, i have tried redhat recently.
dpkg and rpm have similar functionality.
yum, smart, apt-* also have similar functionality.
The problem is that there exists different distributions that use rpm with incompatible structure causing RPM Hell when mixing them. For .deb files luckily there is at the moment only one reference and that is Debian.
I myself have also been in 'DEB Hell' when I tried to upgrade a Storm Linux installation to debian a few years ago. ATM I'm also having serious problems on my AmigaOne with debian after switching packages back and forth a few times between stable and testing.
At the moment I'm using Centos4 on my x86 PC with the smart package manager and ATRpms and a few other rpm repositories without any notice of 'RPM Hell'. I'm also using a remote virtual machine with debian installation without much problems.
greets,
Staf.
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So now that we have discussed that... anyone here willing to give a lecture on MUI class hell? :lol:
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I have been using red hat for a few years and by now the kernel is a bit old - although it does much of what i need.
I've been thinking about ubuntu - especially as now my brother wants me to make one of his older laptops into a multiboot system with linux and Windows. He will be using this while traveling to get his mail and go on the web.
I've heard ubuntu is easier to install and I'm hoping that's the case.
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I bought DSL linux on a credit card size cd. I like it alot. I used Ubuntu. I ordered a couple of CDs. One distribution did not let me create a root password. The second set , a new release did. I can not say much against Ubuntu. A university that I went to uses it with Mathematica.
I guess I will have to tough it out with RHEL for a while. I have RedhatFCore,Mandriva and/or Mandrake,Suse,Slackware,Ubuntu,DSL,Debian(somewhere),Gentoo and an early release of Storm Linux.
I wish I had an IBM RS6000 or similar. I believe the Firmware is more forgiving than Apple.
I wish I knew more about Linux on IBM.
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I've used a lot of distros over the years ( since around '97) Ive pretty much settled on Ubuntu when I need a desktop, and debian for everything else except for some instances where I'll use netbsd.
Redhat/fedora gets a bad rap a lot of the time, but i wouldn't knock it. A lot of people are very familiar with it, and its good to be familiar with it. Most of the time I find my self doing linux stuff with other people at work, they are used to redhat, so i'll go that route, to make it easier on them. *nix is *nix, theyre all so similar, if you can't float from one unix to another your surely must be anal about something irrelevant.
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I guess I will have to tough it out with RHEL for a while.
I don't think you will be happy with RHEL as a home user. As the name already implies, it is focussed on business and server use, that means high availability, stability, backported patches and the like. Many packages that are interesting for home users like multimedia stuff, games etc. are not included in the distribution. And don't forget it costs quite a lot of money on a yearly subscription basis (eg. RHEL standard ~ EUR 500 per year).
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I had Debian in the past, after having switched to a bigger hard drive I still have to reinstall it. I used, and will use Linux for those application that don't exist/aren't free on Amiga, not to forget MacOnLinux, too. I only wish that a Sarge installer for AmigaOne will be made someday.
Varthall
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@ Tenacious
There's no proper Amiga 'environment' for Linux, since they work in very different ways. However, you may be thinking of amiwm (http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiwm.html) (Ami Window Manager). A window manager in Linux is precisely that: it manages windows! Amiwm is only designed to give an Amiga look to Linux, nothing else.
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@Varthall
I had Debian in the past, after having switched to a bigger hard drive I still have to reinstall it
Why reinstall?
Linux is pretty much like AmigaOS in this regard, you can partition the new drive, copy over the files on the partitions, and it will work just fine.
Hard Disk Upgrade HOWTO (http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Hard-Disk-Upgrade.html) was written in PC perspective, but it's easy to adjust it to other hardware platforms.
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Piru wrote:
Why reinstall?
The previous hard disk have been fisically moved to my PC and I have put the new hard disk in my A1. I should have more correctly said "I'll have to install it from scratch" :lol:
EDIT: I see now what you meant. Isn't there in Linux any configuration file that contains absolute paths to the partition where the system is installed, like /dev/hdc1, which could create conflicts/problems if the partition position in the new drive is different?
Varthall
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@Varthall
Isn't there in Linux any configuration file that contains absolute paths to the partition where the system is installed, like /dev/hdc1, which could create conflicts/problems if the partition position in the new drive is different?
Only one: /etc/fstab
See step 8 in the HOWTO I linked.
(The other potential place is the kernel root= option in the bootloader, but that isn't part of the linux installation strictly speaking)
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Piru wrote:
@Varthall
Isn't there in Linux any configuration file that contains absolute paths to the partition where the system is installed, like /dev/hdc1, which could create conflicts/problems if the partition position in the new drive is different?
Only one: /etc/fstab
See step 8 in the HOWTO I linked.
Thanks for this very handy tip. I have a backup of my old Linux partition, I'll try to copy it over the new partition then, it will surely save me lots of time.
(The other potential place is the kernel root= option in the bootloader, but that isn't part of the linux installation strictly speaking)
Indeed, on A1 it's stored among the UBoot Linux boot parameters.
Varthall
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trekiej wrote:
What are your views of Linux?
Rick.
It's a curiosity for me. I just started playing with Ubuntu 6.10. I'm at the absolute beginning.
Fester
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trekiej wrote:
I am getting back into Linux. I have been reading on RHEL 4.
What are your views of Linux?
Rick.
My view is that it's another version of the operating system I gladly got away from when the Amiga came out. It is just another incarnation of the Ritchie/Kernigan/Pike 'everything is a file' OS philosophy. I had been using unix before the Amiga came out, on 68K machines even, and getting paid for it; I never thought anyone would spend their own time messing with it.
Then the Amiga came out, and could do most of what the unix machines could, and was actually FUN! Unlike any unix machine I have seen then or now. I still get paid to use unix at work, because it's still not fun, and I still use Amigas at home, because it still is! :)
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I don't think so :-). There IS a standard, HFS.
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html (http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html)
Here you can find an explanation of every single directory in Linux, its purpose, contents, etc.
Hope you find it useful.
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@ dfreniche : Thanks for link
I use Fedora Core for everyday tasks.
I am using RHEL for cert exams. As for price, RHEL can be downloaded for free or bought with a book.
I did not get a good impression of other distros at the time I installed them. I am not saying Redhat is better. It is what I prefer.
Conclusion: I just need to learn more about Linux and then check the various distros.