Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: RoseDreamJ on March 27, 2007, 10:19:23 PM
-
Ok. Here's the deal. A friend and I were attempting to help staff members at a local church to handle some of their periodic computer tasks like updating member information in a database, retrieve mailing lists, etc. Their system was set up by a man who recently passed away. Now my friend and I are Windows geeks but not Amiga geeks. Perhaps after this, we don't even qualify as geeks any more. Feel free to laugh at our expense (we deserve it). But please give us a hand if you are able.
One of the tasks was very simple...format a floppy. WooHoo, I thought. This is an easy one. We located a formating utility and perused the options. I thought that what was listed was a set of possible floppy disk sizes DH0 was 880K (which size I had never heard of), DH1 was 120M, and DH2 was 120M. There were others but I forget now what they were named.
I thought that since there was no such thing (according to me) as an 880K floppy that it must have been referring to a 720K disk. Likewise, I figured 120M was supposed to be 1.2M but was just missing the period and was a bit off from the standard 1.44 IBM floppy. Yes, I know. It sounds dumb to us now too. But it seemed logical at the moment. We opted to format DH2. When we noted that the HD activity light was blinking instead of the floppy, we knew we were morons and hit Cancel or Stop.
Now, upon reboot, we noticed that several icons that were previously on the desktop (workbench?) were now missing. One was named Main. Not surprisingly the previously pleased church staff commented that this and that was missing and would no longer function.
There are regular backups that are done...weekly. But since we don't know squat about Amiga, we really aren't sure if only the data is archived or if the data and the applications are backed up. However, we did notice that an app called Calculator was within this backup folder (drawer?). To us, many of the other file names seem very generic...like census, payroll, etc. But now having seen calculator, we are wondering (and hoping) that these are entire directories or even just pre-named archives that include the applications themselves.
Another glimmer of hope is that there is another Amiga on site that has a duplicate application set. The only difference is the data generated or stored with them. So between the two computers, we do have all the needed applications and the data in backup form.
All that said (and humbly confessed) we do not know where to go from here and are quite gun shy after botching such a simple operation as formatting a floppy. If it were a Windows machine, I would reinstall the software and import all the backup data (all database, text, and created art). But we're really struggling with some of the terminology. For instance we looked for anything called RESTORE or RECOVER.
Any recommendations on our next steps...outside of skipping town and admitting defeat, of course.
Is there a standard restore type application that would handle any existing backups? Or would those be application specific?
How about transferring apps from one Amiga to the other? Is that as simple as the old DOS (pre-Windows Registry days) where you just copy directories onto a floppy and then copy over the whole directories?
Any help is greatly appreciated. (and laughter is completely understood)
Sincerely,
James Senick (not my real name to protect the rep I once enjoyed)
-
First of all, did you quick format or slow format the drives?
--
moto
-
Get hold of Quarterback tools or DiskSalv v4, they will recover all of the deleted files on the Hard Drive.
As you know diddley squit about Amigas I will leave you to one of the others than can explain how you can get hold of these better than I ever could!
-
it was a slow format
-
Then RedDwarfer is correct - you will need something like QuarterBack Tools or DiskSalv to recover the deleted files, or have a look at their backup of the partition you formatted and see if it is accessible. If so, just format the partition then copy the files from the backup.
--
moto
-
For future ref...
DF0: (ZERO) means Drive Floppy Zero (you can have more than one and Zero is internal/primary)
DH0: Have a guess!!
No, I dont know why they named it arse about face for either.
Oh... good news...
There's NO registry on an amiga. Just drag the bugger back.
-
Cool. We saw a floppy with that name in house today. So, perhaps there is hope?
Thanks you both, BTW
-
For future ref...
DF0: (ZERO) means Drive Floppy Zero (you can have more than one and Zero is internal/primary)
DH0: Have a guess!!
No, I dont know why they named it arse about face for either.
Oh... good news...
There's NO registry on an amiga. Just drag the bugger back.
Great! Thank you.
Are there common extensions for applications versus data files...like exe or com versus txt and doc?
-
Amigans consider DH0: ( HD0: on newer machines) as ..
"The Engine Room", So we dont generally stick stuff in there unless its main purpose is smooth running or improvements to the O/s.
Look in one of your working machines Dh0:
open the drives icon.. slesct Show-All files from the menu at the top of the screen. Or use Dos
You will see... (Amongst others)
C: C is a directory NOT a drive. it stands for Commands. Have a guess what lives in there !!
Libs is short for Libraries - See above !!
Devs is Devices (Drives etc)
S .. Now this one is where your auto exec lives. Its called Startup-Sequence. guess what that does !!
hehe
Custom User startups go into S: as well. They are called.... Wait for it....
User-Startup. this is basically a kind of registry. there are pointers to where your programs are installed or alias's.
-
The Amiga doesn't use file extensions for most filetypes so you will need to determine what they are by name.
--
moto
-
Some screengrabs in Dh0:
(http://www.3cag.net/AmigaStuff/ER.jpg)
and the User-Startup i was telling you about
(http://www.3cag.net/AmigaStuff/UR.jpg)
As you can see... It basically tells the Os where user installed programs live.
Yours will , of cours, be different
-
Yep on the Amiga you could fit 880K on a DD-disk and 1.76M on a HD-disk. Don't know which Amiga you got but the high end ones usually came with HD-drives (A3000 and A4000). A500(+), A600 and A1200 came with DD-drives (A2000 too i think).
-
@RoseDreamJ
I am not being unkind but as you have proceeded to full format the hard drive and may have problems restoring the data, you might want to see if there is any Amiga users in your area with some more expertise who can go on-site and resolve the problem.
As the data is obviously important, making any more mistakes could make it harder still for someone knowledgeable with Amigas to help you.
Its up to you. I am a computer technician myself, but beyond my remit I regularly employ experts in other areas of IT to carry out tasks.
-
@RosedreamJ
You must feel awful, and you have my sympathies.
Where in the world are you - perhaps there is someone on this forum who would volunteer to take a look at it for you.
Amiga folk are, in my experience, generous and happy to help out.
Regards
Rich
-
HAHAHAHAHAAH... priceless.
-
I feel bad for you guys. I'd recommend AmiBack Tools for disk problems.
I'd recommend you also get DirectoryOpus as a file manager.
What model Amiga is it? A Big Box (A2000, A3000, or A4000)? Or is it a "keyboard type" computer, the A1200? (The others I've eliminated, as they've not got HDs). My bet is that it's an A2000, as it was common to have multiple partitions that size (small by today's standards) on 1 HD (or multiple small SCSI HDs).
I'd wish I could help you. Whereabouts are you located. Amigans like to support each other, especially in times of crisis.
BTW, if you ever end up working on someone's older Mac, would you know how to eject the floppy after formatting it? :lol:
-
Amiga folk are, in my experience, generous and happy to help out.
James wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAAH... priceless.
With some exceptions :roll:
-
ok, I think our first plan of attack then will be to try to use the quarterback utility app mentioned. If this does not work, we will try to restore the backup files that we saw that are still present. We weren't really sure today how to take that backup path and place it in the partition that we formatted. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Also in the backup location that they showed us, it wasn't clear to us if this was backups of just the program files or the data as well.
When we first try the quarterback utilyity app how do we use it? Is it fairly intuitive with windows like prompts and menus or is it all command based? Also, from the posts everyone made, it is not clear to me if this problem should be something that we can expect to be resolved with this quarterback retrieval program or not. A few of the early responses made it sound like this should be farily easy to retrieve but then some of the later posts made it sound like we may be screwed. What gives?
-
we are in Jamestown, Ny in the US. Close to buffalo, NY.
-
This is too brutal... :)
-
I think it's cool that a church is using Amiga stuff and still is.
-
it is not clear to me if this problem should be something that we can expect to be resolved with this quarterback retrieval program or not.
I've never known anyone to say that Quarterback did undelete stuff. I'd recommend trying to undelete the files with DiskSalv before making it worse by copying files onto the formatted drive. You can at least see the files there were on there (assuming the format wasn't really really effective) before trying to copy them back from the backups. If you don't have them on the backups, then you can go ahead and undelete them.
Really, though, if you have the program disks handy, all you really need to restore are the files people made themselves.
-
I've never known anyone to say that Quarterback did undelete stuff. I'd recommend trying to undelete the files with DiskSalv before making it worse by copying files onto the formatted drive. You can at least see the files there were on there (assuming the format wasn't really really effective) before trying to copy them back from the backups. If you don't have them on the backups, then you can go ahead and undelete them.
Really, though, if you have the program disks handy, all you really need to restore are the files people made themselves.
Thanks for that. I've been thinking along the same lines. Once we copy anything back or re-create that partition all hopes for restoring files is lost, right?
If that's the case, the best option seems to be to try a restoration / recovery tool like DiskSalv first. If that fails, then we should move to copying back over the applications from their disks or from the second cloned amiga and restoring the data from backup.
If that seems about right, the question becomes how do we get a copy of DiskSalv? We're in a pretty small area with little to no chance of finding any amiga apps for sale. Buying them and waiting for shipping may be way too long since payroll data is needed this week. Are these types of applications available as shareware anywhere? And if so, is there is a simple method of buying and downloading via PC and then transferring them via floppy to the Amiga? We may be dealing with a location that has no Internet access at all. If there is, we're fairly certain that it is limited to the PC.
BTW, we both thank you all for all the input and beginner type Amiga info. For us, this is like getting in a car where the instruments are all in the trunk and laden with foreign symbols. We really appreciate it...even the laughs. We'll laugh with you someday.
-
Boot_WB wrote:
Amiga folk are, in my experience, generous and happy to help out.
James wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAAH... priceless.
With some exceptions :roll:
LOL! Hehe I didn't mean to be rude, but I find it incredibly funny. A little research on the web would have avoided a lot of problems :D
But seriously now... look up on Aminet. You'll find a number of utilities there that will help you.
-
Well, a slow format actually does destroy data, making retrieval of the data highly unlikely. Your best bet is to take whatever back-ups you have and replace what is missing with the back-up files. Do you know how to take the back-ups & copy it over to the HD areas you hosed? If it's on another Amiga computer, you could do the "Floppy & Sneakernet" thing, but you'd need to first get a list of all files missing on the hosed system. Then you'd get a list of all files on the b/u system & identify which files are only on the b/u system & copy those ones over to the hosed system.
Program data on Amigas are almost invariably within the app's main drawer. It's really better to have apps & data on separate physical drives, but I'm guessing you have an A2000, an older system, when HDs cost a major amount, where the apps & data are together.
I'm unfamiliar with the Quarterback program, but I believe it's GUI-based, not a command line interface. See, if you had done a "Quick Format", all that would've affected was table entries of file pointers & your actual programs & data would've remained untouched & been able to be retrieved with proper data retrieval programs, such as AmiBack Tools that I use. DiskSalv4 is not as intuitive, I feel. With a slow format, your data is in all practical purposes gone to that great Archive in the Sky, barring any high-priced forensic data retrieval techniques.
I'm going to be driving to NYC this Thursday to pick up my son to bring him back here for the Passover holiday, then driving him back after the holiday. If you could wait until April 12 in the evening, I'd be passing by, although I'd have to take I-90 instead, I could set you straight & fix it.
-
Try using aminet to download amiga files. And maybe you should pick up a second hand Amiga from like Ebay or something (A1200 is good for beginners) to play with and expand your knowledge of alternative OS's and machines. Heck you may become an Amiga nut too lol
-
these things happen. I don't think you can restore the data after a slow format. Forget it. It's more important to figure out what program was used to make the backups. or just do a fresh install. Maybe the data is on another partition.
Give us more info. What kind of amiga do you have.. How many drives are in there, what kind of files are there on there?
-
QuarterBack Tools is a set of HD utilities for Amiga. One of them works much like undelete utils for Dos and windows. Once you launch Quarterback, I think you'll choose the "Recover" option and then it will prompt for additional info. (Been a while since I used it) As for being intuitive.... I would say ehhhhhh, more so for some than others. But it should'nt be hard to work it out.
Since you aborted a slow copy, not all of the data may be recoverable though. How are your backups stored? I'm guessing it's your data only on floppies and the apps weren't backed up.
Hey, look what I found.... Quarterback on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/QUARTERBACK-TOOLS-AMIGA-SOFTWARE_W0QQitemZ290092661372QQcategoryZ4598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
But that seems pricey to me for an older version. Maybe some one here has a better deal.
Looks like Software Hut still carries both utilities.... DiskSalv 4 (http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/software/utilities/iam_disksalv.html&cart_id=52674)
And the same site with QuarterBack... Quarterback 6.1 (http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/software/utilities/quarterback.html&cart_id=52674) ... bit more $$ for the new copy.
I think each will run directly from the floppy once your booted up.
You say you have another Amiga with the same data. It's not hard to move data from one drive/system when you know how. But as a newbie, you need find some one local to help you or maybe think about shipping the drive/computer to an expert if the data is that critical. I wouldn't recommend risking the data on the second system trying to figure it out.
BTW, my in-laws are originally from Jamestown. Lots of snow there in the winter I understand. :-P
Plaz
-
I think we're making this a lot more complicated than it has to be. :crazy:
Be kind, remember these folks are completely new to this.
@ RoseDreamJ
You said all the data was backed up weekly? To what? Using what? On the Amiga, while you can use a dedicated backup program, creating backups really is as simple as copying files to another device and then copying them back if the need arises.
Do you have access to the backed up files? It sounds like they're elsewhere on the hard drive.
Can you describe the now-missing Main icon? Was it a white rectangular box with a little checkmark in it? That indicates a hard drive partition. Amiga drives can be accessed by either their device name or their volume name. It sounds like you formatted device DH2: which had the volume name of Main. Did anything else disappear from the desktop (we call it Workbench)? Those were probably files or programs on DH2: that had been "left out" for faster access. Formatting their home caused them to disappear.
It's also possible that Main was a drawer somewhere on DH2: that had been left out, in which case we still need to discover what volume name DH2: corresponded to.
-
Hey, I just relized that we've missed some thing important here as we're all focused on helping with this data retrieval......
Their system was set up by a man who recently passed away.
:-(
Did our fellow Amigan have a name? We've sadly lost a few other members over the past few months as well.
Plaz
-
Boot_WB wrote:
Amiga folk are, in my experience, generous and happy to help out.
James wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAAH... priceless.
With some exceptions :roll:
No, seriously. Tell me, does a quick 'dir dh0:' work exactly as you'd expect on a Windows machine or not?
It's bloody alarming to me that anyone who postures as a "windows geek", implying that they're a computing expert, would make the string of guesses and assumptions that he did and decide that it was better to format a random device and see which LED starts to flicker than to double-check or (god forbid) read the manual.
-
Again I appreciate everyone's feedback and interest. I am going to try to answer as many questions as I can that have been asked. But I only saw the Amiga for about an hour and a half today. A lot of what I saw meant little to me until now in retrospect. Our original main goal was simply to help devise a new database query filter. However, the 'issue' was raised that no one knew how to format floppies. We didn't expect to botch such an easy task and thus took little notice or precaution of anything seemingly outside of this small simple task. Actually our error was mostly in the fact that we somewhat dyslexically saw DH as HD...like high density. Anyway, the rest is history.
You said all the data was backed up weekly? To what? Using what? On the Amiga, while you can use a dedicated backup program, creating backups really is as simple as copying files to another device and then copying them back if the need arises.
The backups are done directly to the hard drive. There are actually two backup drawers named BU1 and BU2. There appears to be both files and at least some applications within these. But like I said before, the names were very generic to us so we couldn't tell files from apps except obvious ones like Calculator. The way I am figuring it is that if calculator was in a backup, what wouldn't be.
Outside the fact that the two staff members who use the Amiga know very little about the Amiga except for following routine steps, the man who set up their system clearly knew what he was doing and had been doing so for quite some time.
BTW, I do not know his name. But if they allow me to, I will post it back here tomorrow.
As for their backup application...after reading this forum, I am assuming that it was Quarterback since that was present on the system's UI (is that Workbench?) I didn't take much notice of it, or others named like it, since it was a name that seemed to have little to do with any procedure. But we both recall seeing Quarterback both on the system itself and on floppies elsewhere in the building.
Do you have access to the backed up files? It sounds like they're elsewhere on the hard drive.
That is correct. We only found during the last minutes the "show all" option. We found the upper menu on the UI by accident...holding a right-click. But the number of files that we saw within one of the backup drawers was pretty small...perhaps 25 at the most. Some of the backups are dated, however...like fileABC2001, fileABC2002, etc. Yet, the size of the partition we hosed was only 39.6 megs. So, perhaps we're still ok.
Can you describe the now-missing Main icon? Was it a white rectangular box with a little checkmark in it? That indicates a hard drive partition. Amiga drives can be accessed by either their device name or their volume name.
I wish I could describe it. There was just no reason to really take full visual inventory at the time when it was present. But the one staff member said it was more of a graphical icon...like a custom icon from a manufacturer. She said it looked like 'that one' where that one was a mnufacturer icon. But honestly, I recall it as a pretty simple white box. BTW, this was an Amiga 3000..not sure if there was a T after 3000 or not.
It sounds like you formatted device DH2: which had the volume name of Main.
That is my feeling as well. Compared to what I've seen as far as Amiga UI screenshots tonight on the Web, the Main thing seemed like the Work drawer / directory I've seen. Just a gut feeling based on a whole slew of things I can't really explain without the right Amiga terms.
Did anything else disappear from the desktop (we call it Workbench)? Those were probably files or programs on DH2: that had been "left out" for faster access. Formatting their home caused them to disappear.
There were definitely other items previously on the desktop that are no longer there. But not many. I'd guess at 5 being the most but I'm thinking it's really like 2-3. One I know of for certain was DH0???? that I first took to be a query of some sort. So, that one and Main make two. At most there were three other items. But I strongly feel it was more like 1 if any.
It's also possible that Main was a drawer somewhere on DH2: that had been left out, in which case we still need to discover what volume name DH2: corresponded to.
Understood. I really think Main was volume. Again I am basing this on little true knowledge except the fact that the setup seemed very organized yet simple. Outside of the obvious remaining utility icons, they are all task related and named accordingly.
I know I've left a few questions unanswered. But I will do my best to answer everything after I've had another look.
Oh...the other machine...as I understand it, it is a clone that existed as a backup machine. Apparently it was updated periodically. The last time it was updated was shortly before the man passed away which was about 3 months ago.
To me this would mean that the apps are all accessible. Since the data is most certainly backed up to machine #1's hard drive, we're only going to miss a couple of days worth of data. But according to staff members, such a thing would be very problematic. But who wouldn't say that?
The thing that concerns me along these lines is that when we've tried to open a few of the backup files, an error was presented that said something like \main\xyz could not be found. This leads me to believe that:
A) there are database queries where paths are hardcoded
B) the directory structure of the hosed partition will have to be exactly recreated.
Is it possible to do something as simple as copying DH2 from Amiga #2 to Amiga #1?
If so, from there we'd only have to copy back the backup files, right?
I'd prefer to exhaust all recovery methods first. More clearly, I'd like to not get into another situation where we have to say 'if only I would have tried that before this method which now makes that impossible'. Then again, we're kind of already in that position, aren't we.
Thanks again everyone.
-
No, seriously. Tell me, does a quick 'dir dh0:' work exactly as you'd expect on a Windows machine or not?
It's bloody alarming to me that anyone who postures as a "windows geek", implying that they're a computing expert, would make the string of guesses and assumptions that he did and decide that it was better to format a random device and see which LED starts to flicker than to double-check or (god forbid) read the manual.
For the record, I wouldn't expect 'a quick dir dh0' to do anything unless I wanted a directory listing of the contents of a directory named dh0.
There was no reason for me to understand dh2 as a device. Even Commodore 64 had drives A, B, and C. Before today, there was simply no reason for me to understand there to be other device naming conventions. Also, the format icon seemed to graphically indicate it was a floppy formatting utility. As with any other formatting utility, I very quickly and erroneously understood these to be formatting options...as in format to this file system and disk size. Also, I didn't exactly say 'gee, let's just pick that one and see which LED blinks' as you suggest. I merely mentioned the LED as the trigger behind the realization that I had erred and erred badly.
I fully deserve to be laughed at. I've already laughed at myself plenty. But painting me as a complete dolt might be a bit of a stretch. But thanks for your input just the same.
-
I don't think anyone wants to portray you as an idiot really. We're just having a little fun with you, it's all good hearted really.
Formating anything without knowledge of the operating system, when you are asked to perform maintenance duties, is not exactly the best move. You did made a couple of very non-geek-worthy assumptions:
Thinking 120mb would mean 1.2mb. I don't know about you, but every computer I've used tends to give me the right size for its disks, give or take a few k's.
Since you brand yourself a windows geek, you should be used to disk labels. On windows, I call my C "System", D is "Programs" and E is "Data". Trying "Format System:" won't return anything, but "Format C:" might very well format my C drive :D
Thinking there are no such things as 880k disks is also not very geeky as Macs have been using similar sized disks back in the days.
1.2M floppies also exist, they are high density 5.25 disks. So they are not a little off from 1.44 disks.
Also, you most likely didn't read correctly when you say that DH0 was 880k. It is unlikely that the boot partition would be this small. Most likely it was DF0. Understandably if you don't know anything about the amiga, you might not have seen the 1 letter difference.
Ok enough about pointing errors out.. here's some tricks and a little amiga crash course:
1- What you call a Desktop is the Workbench on the Amiga.
2- Not all files will be displayed on the Workbench. So opening a drawer (folder, directory...whatever) and not seeing anything does NOT mean its empty. The icon information of a file is stored in the .info with the same name.
3- Right-Amiga + E is the equivalent of Start->Run. You can used R-A + E and then type CLI to open a command line shell. It works as you would expect with commands like DIR, CD, MD and the such.
4- The amiga does not work with a registry to know where it's system files are but rather with a set of pre-defined drawers on the system/boot drive. The C drawer for example contains all the commands that you can invoke from pretty much anywhere (usually a command shell, obviously). The LIBS drawer contains libraries and so forth.
5- 99% of the time, the system drive is for the system only. Very few users will install programs in there and I doubt that yours differ. Programs and data are generally kept elsewhere (dh1, dh2 and so on)
Not knowing exactly where the programs and data were kept on the system, it is hard to tell you what exactly you've deleted. One thing is certain: a half-formated drive is no good. Backup what you can from the half dead DH2, and do a proper format before putting all the data back.
With some luck, the guy who setup the computer did a clean job and DH0 is the system, DH1 is the program disk, and DH2 was where the data was being kept. If that's the case that would mean only the data was lost. Format the drive properly, find the weekly backups and copy them back onto DH2. Apologize to the people who hired you for the lost data, and don't expect any money from them.
With a little less luck: DH0 is the system disk, DH1 is the programs, and DH2 is both the data disk and the backup disk. In that case, you're pretty much screwed. As I said, an half-formated disk is no good. You might recover some data, but you are most likely to get corrupted data which is going to cause as much problems as not having any data. That will require you to run DiskSalv and other similar applications. I would advise you NOT to do this as it is beyong your abilities. I'm not saying you're an idiot now.. I'm merely saying that if you managed to screw up on formating a floppy, chances are you'll do more damage to the system with "low-level" system tools on an operating system you're not familiar with. Get someone who is familiar with the Amiga and get him/her/it to work it out.
So sit down with the person that is normally using this computer and ask him where he used to click to perform certain tasks. Try to figure out where the data was save first and foremost. Data is the only thing you're after. Programs can be recuperated from the 2nd Amiga, Aminet, or anyone here...we'll help you out on that if we can. If the data was on the formated disk, it's gone, forget about it. Copy what you can from the dead drive, and store it somewhere safe in case that is all you can salvage, then format the drive properly.
Was the backup automatic or was it done manually? If it was done manually, ask the person where he made the backup and hope he doesn't point you to the formated drive. If you can access the full back up, you've only lost a week of data and just getting the system back on track will most likely satisfy your 'customers'. If it was done automagically, what software was used? Run it and check it's configuration to know where the backup was made and see if it's still allright.
If the backup and the data are gone, they are gone. Change name, sex and underwear and move to another city ;)
-
I second what James wrote, and I'd add one more thing that I normally do when recovering data, although not so simple for the unexperienced:
I throw the drive into a Linux box (with SCSI, as an A3000 uses SCSI by default), and do a simple:
dd if=/dev/sda of=/tmp/mybackupfile bs=512
Assuming the HDD is the first SCSI drive (sda), it will dump the entire hard drive partition to a file, which can then be searched for by strings or other software for extracting textual data, or if one is expert enough to reconstruct non-fragmented files by looking at the data.
In either case, it can also be used to "restore" the drive (with the opposite command, CAREFUL: dd if=/tmp/mybackupfile bs=512 of=/dev/sda) in order to try to salvage the data multiple times until you succeed. So basically, if you try to salvage it and it fails, just go back to the Linux box, restore the drive, and try salvaging again.
Also keep in mind, Linux can mount Amiga FS disks, so you can try and see what you can recover that way.
Obviously you're a Windows geek, "two words combined that don't make sense" (Megadeth says so, not I), so you might not have Linux around, in which case you could try a Knoppix CD, which is a bootable Linux, so you won't need to install. Of course there might also be software that does the same thing in Windows, but your mileage may vary, even though the technique would be the same.
All in all, I also recommend you find someone local to help out. Recovery of sensitive data, and especially in a "foreign" environment isn't something I'd attempt if I was a professional or serious about my results.
Cheers and good luck!
One last thing: you or someone knowledgable might want to check out them batteries inside the Amigas, because if they're not used regularly, they will fail and will leak battery acid on the motherboards, making both machines instant door-stops, thus nullifying all your backup/restore efforts. These machines are 15+ years old...
-
And still rocking !!
:-)
-
Just to add my 2-cents, and confirm what others have said above:
Okay, there are various partitions on an Amiga hard drive, DH0:, DH1:, etc. as you've been told. DH0: is USUALLY the bootable partition on the hard drive that contains the operating system (called "Workbench"). Usually, it is the practice of Amigans to keep this partition relatively small and put the Operating System on here (along with its related files like fonts, device drivers, libraries, etc.).
USUALLY the applications and other programs are kept on another partition, often called DH1:, DH2:, etc.
Note that while these drives are assigned the names DH0:, DH1: etc, the icons for these drives can be given different names (DH0's icon might say WORKBENCH or MAIN, DH1 might say APPS, PROGRAMS, or whatever the user wished).
If DH2: is for some unorthodox reason the OS/Workbench partition instead of a data partition then you will not be able to re-boot the Amiga into Workbench if you shut the computer off. In that case, you will be worse off than you are now.
I'm assuming the Amiga has been left on since you formatted the drive.
You mention that sometimes you get error messages saying that a file cannot be found....a few more details about what you are clicking to make this error message occur would be helpful. I'm guessing that this is because you've wiped certain files from DH2:
I am VERY concerned, that since you started formatting DH2: and then aborted it part way through, you have corrupted the drive quite a bit.
What you have ahead is a very steep learning curve. Especially if you have to restore or re-install the directory of the boot partition. I would REALLY suggest you find an experienced Amigan who can help you. Perhaps a friend of the deceased man who set up the system? You will save yourself a lot of grief this way. Rabbi posted above in this thread an offer to stop by and have a look....it would be a very smart to wait for this person. I know there are other Amigans in New York State on Amiga.org.
I am located in Eastern Ontario. I suppose in a pinch I could guide you over the phone.....but you have quite a restoration job to do there.....and it would be a very frustrating thing to do over the phone without visuals and without you really knowing much about what you are looking at (not having detailed knowledge of the Amiga system).
Also, you should be aware that there is an icon called CLI: or SHELL in the SYSTEM drawer on the Workbench partition. That will get you into a MS-DOS like interface. It might be better for you to use that type of interface....it's more straightforward for low level restoration like this.
-
Am I the only one who uses HDx: for my partitions?
--
moto
-
The thing that concerns me along these lines is that when we've tried to open a few of the backup files, an error was presented that said something like \main\xyz could not be found. This leads me to believe that:
A) there are database queries where paths are hardcoded
B) the directory structure of the hosed partition will have to be exactly recreated.
They're probably either hard-coded in the DH0:s/user-startup/ drawer, a setting in the "Preferences" option (could even be a right-button drop down menu) program of the data base program, hidden away in the icon (in the .info file), or just a plain default of the data base program.
The user-startup file is much like the Windoze AUTOEXEC.BAT in concept.
To view any options hidden in an icon .info file, click only once on the icon itself to select it & then go to the top of the screen and do the right-button drop-down menu thing to highlight & release on Icons>Information.
As far as "B)", you are spot on with this.
BTW, the Amiga system uses forward-slashes, "/", not backslashes, "\" as in Windoze systems, as a separator.
is it possible to do something as simple as copying DH2 from Amiga #2 to Amiga #1?
If so, from there we'd only have to copy back the backup files, right?
If you have knowledge about SCSIs, then you'll understand that you can open up the other computer & remove the HD drive and you'll need to place it with a connecting cable to the external SCSI connector on the hosed system. You'll have to ensure that the HD drive that you'll be connecting will NOT conflict with any other SCSI devices inside. I would recommend that you open the system & write down what SCSI unit numbers these devices are using (from 1 - 7). This would be the quickest way. You're lucky that you're dealing with an A3000 in that has an external SCSI connector. You'll also need a power source for the HD drive that you'll be attaching. See if there's an extra empty power connector on the inside of the hosed system.
Also, I am wondering if you've got CrossDOS installed on that A3000. Any Amiga that's got CrossDOS installed can instantly read & write to an MS-DOS formatted floppy, so formatting a floppy, which you did to start off this headache might've been totally unnecessary had you known if CrossDOS was installed in the Amiga that you hosed, if you had had pre-formatted floppies.
-
Simple answers.
Try DiskSalv 3 free from aminet it has saved All amiga users. If you post a copy of your user-startup from the "s" directory path "SYS:s/user-starup" it is an ascii text file so can be inserted into your post. The guru's that read this will be able to tell you the hard coded paths you should look at.
It would be a good idea to get a hold of local user group or individual most will assist you for a good coffee! If you post where you are located (general) you may just get a reply.
Hope it helps.
-
Okay I hate to add to this but I used to be an amiga dealer, so I am going to add to your questions..
as stated before device letters for hard drives on the PC like C:, D, E, don't exist. A and B are not floppy drive letters.
on the Amiga DF0:, DF1:, DF2: are drive letters just like a and b are
DH0:, DH1:, DH2:, HD0:, HD1: are normally assigned drive letters and names, they could also be SYS:, WORK: the names are completely assignable by the OS..
All of that is scriptable by a batch file (the namings). Some older Amigas weren't equipped with a hard drive and run their software off of multiple floppy disks (the Sys: using being the floppy disk it booted from the workbench disk).
In some very old software for keeping track of people, accounting, etc. if you didn't have a hard drive the software ran a batch file to boot up from that re-assigned drive letters because on the Amiga they are completely assignable. Since a floppy based system didn't have a DH0: or a DH1: or a HD0:, or HD1: people would alias those drive letters in the batch file to match the names of the floppy drives, so they could run one batch file and their drive asssignments for where to find files and system stuff that the would use would still work.
So the question you have to ask yourself is does your system really have a Hard Drive in it.. We need to know for sure. If so formatting the hard drive as you suggested you did probably damaged the system, and you will need to reinstall the system software onto it.. Don't sweat it, because that can probably pretty easily be done if you still have all the floppies that came with the system. You might have deleted data though (Which could be lost without disksalv or quarterback tools). Try quarterback tools first. Disksalv didn't support hard drive recovery until really later versions of it.
all of the batch files or scripts on the amiga are usually stored in an aliased or assigned directory called S:
device drivers are stored in an assigned directory called devs:, Commands in C:, handlers in L: on the sys: drive but even those things can be moved elsewhere..
I hope this further clarifies..
-
I would hazard a guess She's completely Puggled now !!
Lets form a plan of attackj for her...
List of importance.
1: Does it BOOT into a graphical user interface ? ( A desktop appears)
YES or No ?
-
i can't believe that there's not a user here from Buffalo. i'm in Rochester, but that's not too much help. i'm also pretty new to the Amiga myself and would be mostly learning the lower level stuff as i go (i *did* find formatting a floppy pretty intuitive though ;-)). i've seen a C64 user or two from Buffalo, not sure if they're familiar with Amiga though.
you should probably make a new post asking for help in the Buffalo, NY area.
-
By the way, when people keep referring to Aminet, they mean a website which hosts shedloads of free software and other stuff for amigas.
www.aminet.net
There are several mirrors, but this site has a nice gui which allowas (reasonably) straightforward searches.
I wouldn't try browsing for wahat you want, just searching.
If you find a program you want it will probably be archived in .lha format (analogous to .zip, .rar, .gz).
Depending which version of the OS you have installed, it may be possible to just double click on the archive to unpack it. Chances are your a3000 has an older version of the OS though and you may have to do it through the command line interface (CLI).
Hope you manage to get it sorted.
Rich
-
I just got on this thread . Sorry to hear your problem. I live in Fredonia (that's only 26 miles away ) and would be happy to help. I've had Amigas since '87 so I might be able to help resurect your data. Give me a pm .
(bmarkham at stny dot rr dot com)
-
Skeeter wrote:
I just got on this thread . Sorry to hear your problem. I live in Fredonia (that's only 26 miles away ) and would be happy to help. I've had Amigas since '87 so I might be able to help resurect your data. Give me a pm .
(bmarkham at stny dot rr dot com)
:-)
-
motorollin wrote:
Am I the only one who uses HDx: for my partitions?
--
moto
Well, in my pre 3.0 OS's, I used DHx, and after I've named them HDx's.
-
Just a thought, but rather than messing around with creating partitions, or overwriting the old (partly formatted) partition to restore the data from the archive you could try the following.
1) unarchive the latest backup to a directory on an existing partition (for example "DH2:mydirectory").
2) type into the command line "assign main: dh2:mydirectory"
This fools the computer into thinking that there is a drive called "main". When you call anything on the "main" drive (for example "execute main:anydirectoryname/myexampleprogram" the amiga OS will look for it in "DH2:mydirectory/anydirectoryname/myexampleprogram"
If you manage to unpack your archived data this will at least let you test that everything is present and in the right place without you having to create partitions, format hard drives, etc
Regarding your comments on having to recreate the directory structure - any decent archiving program will have preserved this within the packed file. You should just have to unpack the archive and it will create all the directories etc for you.
Best of luck
Rich
-
The_Editor wrote:
And still rocking !!
:-)
Hell, yea!
-
jbuonacc wrote:
level stuff as i go (i *did* find formatting a floppy pretty intuitive though ;-)). i've seen a C64 user or two from
I think most of us, even at the age of 8-20 found formatting a floppy on the Amiga QUITE intuitive :-)
Hell, it sure beat the crap out of formatting with DOS or Windoze 3.x!
Any dumb ones in here who had problems in their teen years with Amiga floppies?? :-D
-
:roflmao: Sorry, I thought the whole thing was kind of funny.
-
Edited by Argo : Personal Attack.
Be nice! Argo
-
amiga92570 wrote:
:roflmao: Sorry, I thought the whole thing was kind of funny.
actually, yes, this is all quite hilarious. wish we had a video of it all going down. the church folk probably crapped themselves.
-
>The thing that concerns me along these lines is that when we've tried to open a few of the backup files, an error was presented that said something like \main\xyz could not be found.
Nonsense, Amiga pathnames don't look anything like that.
>Even Commodore 64 had drives A, B, and C.
You're talking complete crap. Stop lying.
-
motorollin wrote:
Am I the only one who uses HDx: for my partitions?
--
moto
nope. 1st time I did a HDD for myself, I used that, then later on when dealing with multiple volumes, would use a format like my current MDH0: but I guess I've been using HDD capable Amigas for long enough now, and added to that my age, I tended to just find that DH0: ran off the tongue more easily than HD0: jus' ockud I guess!
-
RoseDreamJ wrote:But the number of files that we saw within one of the backup drawers was pretty small...perhaps 25 at the most. Some of the backups are dated, however...like fileABC2001, fileABC2002, etc. Yet, the size of the partition we hosed was only 39.6 megs. So, perhaps we're still ok.
Forget absolutely everything you know about Windows file sizes. Amigas can happily work away with word processing/spreadsheets etc with only a 10MB hard drive or even from just a few 880k floppies :-D
Good luck with getting everything back up and running.
@motorolin
I used Drive1: Drive2: for all of mine. I used to use the default DH0, but thought Drivex would be better.
-
1st I must say to my Windows Friend trying to use Amiga:
DON'T PANIC!
The most of the errors you can do on Amiga are sure recoverable...
Take a breath, and keep listen...
1) Now I read some comments above that you have a DH2:???? icon on the desktop... IS THAT CORRECT?
{Please answer this question first)
This means that you corrupted the Hard Disk partition because it is now formatted incomplete...
To save files on it it could be necessary to use programs such as DiskSalv...
But as I said previous DON'T PANIC!
2) Seems to me that system boots quite well, so Partitions DH0: and DH1: should be unharmed... IS THAT CORRECT?
{Please answer this question second)
3) Your system boots correctly?
{Please answer this question third)
4) A little simple reminder:
Usually Amiga uses DH0: as primary HDD partition:
5) SYS:
It is the device who made the boot (It could be either one floppy, one CD, or one HD)
You can access boot device by referring as SYS:
6) Amiga uses slash as in Internet/Linux.
"/"
7) While Windows uses the slash BEFORE ANY DIRECTORY, Amiga have no need of it on the first branch directory...
Windows:
C:\Windows
C:\Windows\System
Amiga:
SYS:Prefs
SYS:Prefs/Storage
8)Accessing directories in various ways:
DH0:C
SYS:C
Workbench:C
C:
These syntax examples usually refers to the same directory of commands...
9) Any Directory in Amiga could became a DEVICE. Main directory are ALREADY addresses as they were virtual devices, so you can access it IMMEDIATELY.
C:
It is the absolute path for directory of Amiga-DOS commands used by keyboard based GUI console (CLI or SHELL).
Yes! You can referring to main directories of Amiga as they were DEVICES.
10) Have you seen this utility directory somewhere on the Hard disk?
If this exists, you can easily transfer files from any directory, or device to another:
Directory OPUS or DirOPUS
(http://amiga.emucamp.com/diropus4_1.gif)
(http://amiga.emucamp.com/diropus4_2.gif)
(Please answer this question fourth)
11) Amiga Floppy Disks.
Amiga acess normal DOUBLE SIDED DOUBLE DENSITY Floppy disks of 3,5 inches.
While MS-DOS format it at 720KB, Amiga gains some more kilobytes and format it at 880KB.
This is due to the fact Amiga stores on DD Amiga floppy disks 512 bytes/sector 11 Sectors/track 2 sides 80 cylinders.
So Amiga disks could be loaded with more DATA than a normal PC disk.
You can access even 720KB formatted PC disks because Amiga have a total control over motorsteps of Floppy read/write header.
PC disks are accessed thanks an utility called CROSS-DOS
Amigas usually are equipped only with DOUBLE DENSITY floppy drives, so you can't use 1,44 MB PC formatted floppies.
11) To format a FLOPPY Disk:
A) Check that there are no floppies in any drive.
B)insert disk you want to format in the floppy driver.
C) Check the new icon of Disk that will appear dinamically on the desktop window
D) Click on it with RIGHT MOUSEBUTTON
(PLEASE CLICK JUST ONLY ON THE FLOPPY DISK-LIKE ICON THAT JUST APPEARED.
YOU CAN SPOT IT BECAUSE IT APPEARS DINAMYCALLY WHEN THE DISK WAS INSERTED)!
E) New floppy icon should be usually named DF0:????
(Note the four "?" in the name)
F) Choice FORMAT from the Pull down menu
G) Follow progress bar indicator
H) DONE!
Now you have a floppy disk formatted to transfer any kind of data between the two Amigas in the church...
-
Minuous wrote:
>The thing that concerns me along these lines is that when we've tried to open a few of the backup files, an error was presented that said something like \main\xyz could not be found.
Nonsense, Amiga pathnames don't look anything like that.
Maybe he has been working with Rational Clearcase too much.
Minuous wrote:
>Even Commodore 64 had drives A, B, and C.
You're talking complete crap. Stop lying.
True but better is to correct him. C64 has devices accessable by number. Device 8 - 12 usually refer to diskdrives. Within this device you could target units but I have not seen this used ever.
So be a windows-geek but be carefull making statements about commodores here. You are in the lions den ;-)
-
>Device 8 - 12 usually refer to diskdrives.
I think it's 8-11, for the four possible floppy drives?
-
Minuous wrote:
>Device 8 - 12 usually refer to diskdrives.
I think it's 8-11, for the four possible floppy drives?
8-11 are the adresses usable for standard Commodore diskdrives such as the 1541 (including -C and -II), the 1570, 1571, 1581 (and some other, lesser known) drives and that's because they only have two jumpers for controlling the drivenumber. If you use something like a CMD Ramlink or CMD Harddrive, you can happily use higher drivenumbers such as 12, 13 etc.
In my current C128-setup, I use two 1571's, an FD2000, a Ramlink and a CMD Harddrive, which can all be used simultaneously with drivenumbers 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12.
To slightly add to the confusion concerning drivenumbers on Commodores: GEOS and its upgrade Wheels use driveletters (A, B, C, D) thus more resembling a pc.
But this is going offtopic.
-
I wonder how this turned out.
-
ral-clan wrote:
I wonder how this turned out.
I don't know but the original post was a great way to start my day with lots of laughter! :lol:
-
At least it was just church data that got blown away, instead of you know, something that actually matters.
-
actually, yes, this is all quite hilarious. wish we had a video of it all going down. the church folk probably crapped themselves.
It's sad that people will laugh at the misfortunes of others.
-
koaftder wrote:
At least it was just church data that got blown away, instead of you know, something that actually matters.
There is such a hostility towards churches and their members. Not sure why.
-
gdanko wrote:
koaftder wrote:
At least it was just church data that got blown away, instead of you know, something that actually matters.
There is such a hostility towards churches and their members. Not sure why.
I hope you aren't referring to me with the above quote? I was laughing at the Windows Geeks, not the Church's loss of data.
I did not even take the time to read any of the other posts in the 4 pages.
-
gdanko wrote:
There is such a hostility towards churches and their members. Not sure why.
Well you could probably start with George Dubbayh and work your way back to the crusades... :-D
-(e)
-
Well you could probably start with George Dubbayh and work your way back to the crusades... :-D
-(e)
Oh give me a break. You cannot blame a whole group based on the actions of GW. That's the same discrimination the world decries.
Also, the KKK calls themselves Christians, but their actions would say otherwise.
-
Back to topic:
If you have Quarterback Tools in DH0 (system, _HairyDave_, AnyOtherName, whatsoever), I think is that obvious the man who maintain the Amiga before (rest in peace) use it to do the backup files.
Then it's simple:
- Find the quarterback tools drawer (name of directories on Amigas;
- Open the rescue utility (I forgot the right name);
- Make the rescue app scan the DHx: (the lost partition).
- Point another partition to do the salvage (be sure you have enough space in the other partition, of course;
- If you get a message like "archive xxx is damaged, it won't be recovered", stop the scan and quit the application;
- Wait until someone who have an expertized knowledge in Amigas arrives to do the job for you;
- In the case the last sentence is true, stick with him/her in order to know a bit more of this wonderful piece of OS. ;-)
-
amigadave wrote:
I don't know but the original post was a great way to start my day with lots of laughter! :lol:
It is pretty funny when people lose data isn't it.
--
moto
-
@gdanko
Quote:
1. It's sad that people will laugh at the misfortunes of others.
2. There is such a hostility towards churches and their members. Not sure why.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely true.............but I was actually surprised this time. I am a church member and people who know it here that know it are hostile towards me at times.
I find its usually athiests or anti religion/AntiGod people.
I always thought that at least Amigans would respect other Amigans.........not the case.
@RoseDreamJ
I live in NYC, I would love to help if I could somehow go there.............I am a Church member and a Heavy heavy Amiga user..............as a matter of fact I have proposed doing the SOngs on the projectors at church with my Machine (Amiga 1200) I have an application thats better than PowerPoint to do this and can train your church how if they are interested..............FREE of course, and I may even give them the software Free as well. The software is the easiest Multimedia/Presentation software in the world. Really.
I may also have Quarterback Tools and DiskSalv to give you.
PMAIL me here (do this by clicking on my name while signed on here and select PMAIL)
Welcome to Amiga.Org! I love to hear about churches using Amigas.
-
gdanko wrote:
koaftder wrote:
At least it was just church data that got blown away, instead of you know, something that actually matters.
There is such a hostility towards churches and their members. Not sure why.
No hostility. It's a church computing environment. They say that prayer can achieve miraculous things. I suggest a faith based data recovery plan. If the data never reappears, it's God's will. ;-)
-
rkauer wrote:
Back to topic:
If you have Quarterback Tools in DH0 (system, _HairyDave_, AnyOtherName, whatsoever), I think is that obvious the man who maintain the Amiga before (rest in peace) use it to do the backup files.
rkauer, lierbag and others: it's nice that you are giving advice and offering help, but I was just resurrecting a thread that is almost a year old now (to see if anyone knew how it turned out). I doubt the original poster even checks this site.[/size]
-
When you formatted the hard drive the question of whether you fast formatted or slow formatted is very important.
Fast formatting only deletes the drives dir structure and any decent recovery program can easily recreate it.
Slow formatting however changes every bit on the drive to a zero and therefore completely erases everything as it goes. Since you canceled the operated a lot of the data may be recoverable, it's hard to say how far it got before stopping.
Wish i was nearby to help you out.
-
Absolutely true.............but I was actually surprised this time. I am a church member and people who know it here that know it are hostile towards me at times.
I find its usually athiests or anti religion/AntiGod people.
I always thought that at least Amigans would respect other Amigans.........not the case.
I would have expected more as well. But it seems like some people here put a higher value on poking fun at a church and/or its losses than helping out the Amiga community.
-
gdanko wrote:
Well you could probably start with George Dubbayh and work your way back to the crusades... :-D
-(e)
Oh give me a break. You cannot blame a whole group based on the actions of GW. That's the same discrimination the world decries.
Also, the KKK calls themselves Christians, but their actions would say otherwise.
Perhaps you missed the smiley?
This was certainly intended as tounge-in-cheek.
-(e)
-
koaftder wrote:
At least it was just church data that got blown away, instead of you know, something that actually matters.
You'd probably hold a very different perspective if you worked in that church office let me tell ya.
I think it's interesting to hear in 2007 of an Amiga still being in use in a church.
-
Fester wrote:
I think it's interesting to hear in 2007 of an Amiga still being in use in a church.
I think that it is very cool and rare to hear in 2007 of an Amiga being used for any sort of non-gaming / hobby purpose!
-
RRunner wrote:
Fester wrote:
I think it's interesting to hear in 2007 of an Amiga still being in use in a church.
I think that it is very cool and rare to hear in 2007 of an Amiga being used for any sort of non-gaming / hobby purpose!
One of my best friends still makes a living from using his Amiga Video Toaster/Flyer system full time. He recently purchased a PC system to replace it, but to my knowledge has yet to make a dime from it, while the Toaster/Flyer keeps chugging along and provides him with the best interface for his productions. It is hard to move away from something that has worked so well for so long.
-
Quite honest. Some fuses have been blown by me for destroying important data on occasions. That happens everyone sooner or later. Even the gurus around here have done something that the want to keep unmentioned - hehe :-)
Blame mr. Murphy and his law....
And believe me. Sooner or later you'll f**k up things even more. That's life.
----------------------
Sit down. Take a deep breath. Grab a mug o' coffee and start thinking after that.
-
I think it's interesting to hear in 2007 of an Amiga still being in use in a church.
I think it's cool that a church uses it in any year. Although, "still" using is neat as well. Amiga's turn up in all sorts of unexpected places and it's always cool when they do. :banana:
-
vpamicue wrote:
Simple answers.
Try DiskSalv 3 free from aminet it has saved All amiga users.
...
You got to be careful with statements like this, as long as you don't know which file system he's using.
Keep in mind that DiskSalv was designed for OFS or FFS only.
If the HD in question uses SFS or PFS you might do even more damage to the drive/data, if you try to recover it with non-suited tools...
:roll:
You should always verify that the recovery tool you're intending to use really is matching the file system used on the drive to recover!