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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: therail on March 22, 2007, 06:08:53 PM

Title: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 22, 2007, 06:08:53 PM
Hi Can the AmiEmulators (ie AmiMasterGear) run at normal speed on an Amiga 4000? Without tunning too fast or slow? What is your configuration? Many thanks for your time! :)
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: motorollin on March 22, 2007, 06:34:07 PM
What is the spec of your A4000? The speed of your accelerator card (if any) will greatly affect performance.

--
moto
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 22, 2007, 06:39:27 PM
well on my csmk3 setup it runs far too fast. even with just the accelerator and ran installed it runs far too fast. never had this trouble with the b1260 on the a1200!
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 22, 2007, 07:01:30 PM
I have 2 X A4000's , and tried it with csppc's and a MK2/060 ... I suspect the problem is some A4000 bug, not the accelerators...
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 23, 2007, 12:10:30 AM
AmiMasterGear runs fine here on my A4000 with CSMK3.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Matt_H on March 23, 2007, 12:21:16 AM
Runs too fast on my CSMk3 4000T as well. Was perfect on my Blizzard 1260. Got a stock 4000 that I can try later...
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 23, 2007, 04:26:09 AM
Have you tried setting speed to Fast (instead of Real)?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 23, 2007, 06:29:32 AM
speed settings or pal/ntsc have not effect on my machines, I get ~260fps!  :-o  :-o  :-o
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 23, 2007, 09:23:06 AM
@adolescent

What is the full spec of the amiga and what amimastergear settings do you use?
 
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 23, 2007, 10:08:00 AM
maybe it is RTG software that causes this?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 23, 2007, 10:56:02 AM
Hi

keropi maybe you can try your emu with you a4000 on an stock hd with no addition s/w installed and maybe try cs060 and ppc with maybe no gfx card installed.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: utri007 on March 23, 2007, 11:15:56 AM
Amimastergear doesn't do RTG

http://kung-foo.dhs.org/zener/AmiEmulatorsWeb/amg.html
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 23, 2007, 03:41:55 PM
A4000/2M Chip/CSKM3 060/50MHz w/128M RAM running in a normal AGA NTSC screen (no promotion).

---
AmiMasterGear Emulator v0.82 (23.7.02) (w/free keyfile)

Emulation Speed:
  V.Lines: 313
  Speed: Fast

Screen Options:
  NTSC (60Hz)
  SPR Refresh: 1 Frame
  GFX Refresh: 1 Frame

Options:
  Black Border
  No illogical moves
  Show fps (for this exercise)

  Video Emulation:
    Realtime Scroll Refresh

---

Things run at between 60-70FPS (usually 70) using these settings.  Changing speed to Turbo or Real makes it go 250+ FPS.  Changing the refresh to auto makes it go faster too.  (PAL works fine also, but my TFT complains so I use NTSC)

I'll load up AmiMSX if I can find a copy and try it out too.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 23, 2007, 03:47:18 PM
@adolescent

Thanks much for that. do you have any on board a4000 mob o fast mem? i think i have 16mb. as well as the 128mb on my csmk3. wierd for me as i have identical setup to you.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 23, 2007, 03:53:01 PM
@adolescent

also do you disable your cpu cache or boot with no start up sequence? what is your csmk3 config (concerning ram maybe) at the boot screen?!
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 23, 2007, 06:43:06 PM
@adolescent :

wow man! I did the same, I get 70fps! now to find a way to have 60....
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Matt_H on March 23, 2007, 06:58:23 PM
@ adolescent

Looking promising... a PAL screen might be just what it needs to get a tiny bit slower...
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: weirdami on March 23, 2007, 07:52:59 PM
@therail

Play all your games on super fast mode and get really good at them and then go to a contest where they play on the real hardware and you'll win all the money because you're so good at all the games because they're much slower than you practiced.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 23, 2007, 08:54:46 PM
@therail

Caches are all turned on by SETPATCH.  I think my RAM timing is set to 60ns.  I have no RAM on the motherboard right now.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 23, 2007, 09:40:34 PM
hmmm seems like we're making progress. i need to try this on ym a4000. maybe i should take the mobo ram out my a4000. is a4000 mobo ram important at all?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Amigaz on March 23, 2007, 09:44:18 PM
Just tested it on my A1200T (specs are in my sig.) I got over 70fps and when I press any button on my Competition Pro Cd32 pad it exits the game back to the Amimastergear menu...nice bugfree piece of software  :lol:
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 23, 2007, 09:58:28 PM
Quote

AMIGAZ wrote:
Just tested it on my A1200T (specs are in my sig.) I got over 70fps and when I press any button on my Competition Pro Cd32 pad it exits the game back to the Amimastergear menu...nice bugfree piece of software  :lol:


if you are using on a ppc a1200 then it wont work at all.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Amigaz on March 23, 2007, 10:08:41 PM
Quote

therail wrote:
Quote

AMIGAZ wrote:
Just tested it on my A1200T (specs are in my sig.) I got over 70fps and when I press any button on my Competition Pro Cd32 pad it exits the game back to the Amimastergear menu...nice bugfree piece of software  :lol:


if you are using on a ppc a1200 then it wont work at all.


How come? it seem to work as on the others Amiga's altough they are using A4000's or are you refering to the CD32 pad?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 23, 2007, 11:46:44 PM
@AMIGAZ

Do you have it set for CD32 pad and correct port?  I use one and it works fine.  The start button is supposed to return you to the menu.  
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 24, 2007, 12:05:21 AM
I remember it was running OK on my bppc with 060/60mhz and grex1200....
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 24, 2007, 02:34:22 AM
thats weird. when i tried amimastergear on my bppc is ran way too fast and kept quitting to the menu screen when i pressed a button.

back on topic more now. i will try the above settings later on. has anyone who tried those settings getting around 70fps now? shall i remove the a4000 mobo ram? what are the csmk3 boot settings for you?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Amigaz on March 24, 2007, 07:42:12 AM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
@AMIGAZ

Do you have it set for CD32 pad and correct port?  I use one and it works fine.  The start button is supposed to return you to the menu.  


Yep
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 24, 2007, 02:58:36 PM
@AMIGAZ

Must be some incompatibility in your system.  Download the source code and start debugging.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 24, 2007, 03:05:10 PM
Quote
by adolescent on 2007/3/24 17:58:36    @AMIGAZ    Must be some incompatibility in your system. Download the source code and start debugging.


and while at it, compile opera web browser for OS3,9!
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Amigaz on March 24, 2007, 03:12:16 PM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
@AMIGAZ

Must be some incompatibility in your system.  Download the source code and start debugging.



"debugging"? me? hey..I'm just a simple marine motor mechanic  :-P

It might be my custom kickrom file that causes it..what do I know..bah  :-?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Amigaz on March 24, 2007, 03:12:56 PM
Quote

keropi wrote:
Quote
by adolescent on 2007/3/24 17:58:36    @AMIGAZ    Must be some incompatibility in your system. Download the source code and start debugging.


and while at it, compile opera web browser for OS3,9!


Understood! I'm the right man for the job.....NOT!!!  :-D
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 24, 2007, 04:27:23 PM
Right. I finally got a chance to investigate this thing. i followed adolescent settings under AmiMasterGear, and they indeed make a difference! :) Running at around 70fps - although unfortunately, not consistantly around that mark. Along with adolescent AmiMasterGear settings, i also done under the settings Options/Video Emulation:

Sprite Priorities=on
Background Priorities=on
Realtime Scroll Refresh=on
Realtime Palette Refresh=on

The above also slows the emulation down a tiny bit, but again not consistantly. On a sidenote, changing the Screenmode to PAL made it go too fast again (around 250fps). Next i changed my CSMK3 settings to see if that helps. Here are the settings i done:


CSMK3 Settings:

RAM: 70ns RAM
SYSTEM: NoMapRom - SuperScaler=off - BranchCache=off - Writebuffer=off

Tried AmiMastergear again and more of the same! it was a bit more consistant this time. But still not fully consistant enough for my liking.

So i ask whether anyone else can get any closer than that. also has anyone with an a4000 setup got it dead on 50/60fps?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 24, 2007, 04:57:27 PM
Mine seems to jump around at the beginning, but once in the game it's pretty consistent.  In Sonic the Hedgehog (SMS) it hangs out right at 70-71.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 24, 2007, 06:01:21 PM
Quote

adolescent wrote:
Mine seems to jump around at the beginning, but once in the game it's pretty consistent.  In Sonic the Hedgehog (SMS) it hangs out right at 70-71.


yeah it mostly is like that for me. trying them csmk3 helps a little too find. i suppose if can live with that, but i may try a couple of other stuff before i am through (for keropis sake more than mine! :) ). i suppose it wouldn't make a difference running a bit of patch software that would slow the system down - considering this emu "bangs" the hardware. did you try amimsx? what was that like?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 24, 2007, 06:05:23 PM
You could try degrading the system a bit before running the emulator.  Turning off CPU caches would definately make it slower.

AmiMSX seems to run only a bit fast without any changes (just setting the frame from 2 to 1).  There is no FPS counter so it's hard to say if it is running too fast.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: keropi on March 24, 2007, 06:06:22 PM
are the sources available? perhaps we can ask a software guru to look at them and maybe implement some better timing?
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 24, 2007, 06:16:31 PM
yeah keropi that is a good idea but who could do it?! i think these emus are written in an easy programming language so it shouldn't be too hard for an experienced amigan. the sources are on aminet.

i tried turning off cpu cache but it makes the emu too slow. if i put framskip on auto it runs at almost full speed but then is choppy.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 24, 2007, 06:22:26 PM
Quote

therail wrote:
Sprite Priorities=on
Background Priorities=on
Realtime Scroll Refresh=on
Realtime Palette Refresh=on


I didn't notice any speed decrease with setting this, but it does improve the accuracy.  Especially the sprite and background priorities.

BTW, turning off caches makes it too slow.  :lol:  Edit: I guess you already said that.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: adolescent on March 24, 2007, 06:24:36 PM
Source is available, but IIRC not the last updated version.

Quote

therail wrote:
yeah keropi that is a good idea but who could do it?! i think these emus are written in an easy programming language so it shouldn't be too hard for an experienced amigan. the sources are on aminet.


I don't think assembler qualifies as "easy".   :-)
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Piru on March 24, 2007, 06:30:31 PM
Quickly checking the source, there seems to be a bug when acking interrupts. intreq should be written twice, or the interrupt can be executed twice. With vertical blanking interrupt that'd mean double speed.

Code such as this:
Code: [Select]

   MOVE.W #$xxxx,$DFF09C
   NOP
   RTE

...should be:
Code: [Select]

  MOVE.W #$xxxx,$DFF09C
  MOVE.W #$xxxx,$DFF09C
  NOP
  RTE

No, I am not interested in fixing and building the app (the source is in m68k assembly, with spanish comments). Just something I spotted.
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: therail on March 24, 2007, 07:36:11 PM
BUMP!
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Cosmos Amiga on June 21, 2024, 06:33:00 AM
Quickly checking the source, there seems to be a bug when acking interrupts. intreq should be written twice, or the interrupt can be executed twice. With vertical blanking interrupt that'd mean double speed.

Code such as this:
Code: [Select]
   MOVE.W #$xxxx,$DFF09C
   NOP
   RTE
...should be:
Code: [Select]
  MOVE.W #$xxxx,$DFF09C
  MOVE.W #$xxxx,$DFF09C
  NOP
  RTE

I just updated the source : the emulation is now slower on the 040+...

==> https://leblogdecosmos.blogspot.com/2024/06/amimastergear-091.html

It's based on the 0.81 version.

I'm looking for the source of the 0.82 by Gaelan Griffin to do the same tiny upgrades...
Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: jvmartins on June 28, 2024, 10:45:31 AM
Yes, AmiEmulators like AmiMasterGear can generally run on an Amiga 4000 at normal speed if configured properly. It largely depends on your specific setup, such as the CPU and RAM configuration of your A4000. Some tweaking might be needed to optimize performance, but it should be feasible without running too fast or too slow if everything is set up correctly.


Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Xanxi on June 28, 2024, 02:17:00 PM
No the tweaking of the emulator parameters discussed about 14 years ago wasn't satisfactory, with a lot of games not working or still working too fast.

Thanks Cosmos for having updated the code with Piru's modification. It seems to work perfectly on my A4000 with any game i can try now, just like on the A1200.
The solution was so simple, until someone with assembly knowlegde spent some time to do it.

Title: Re: Can AmiMasterGear, etc run on A4000?
Post by: Cosmos Amiga on June 29, 2024, 02:01:02 PM
The solution was so simple, until someone with assembly knowlegde spent some time to do it.

The 0.82 source reconstruction is possible from his 0.82 .exe but lot of work because many updates compared to the previous 0.81...

If someone know Gaelan Griffin : could you ask him for the 0.82 source ?