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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: yock1960 on March 11, 2007, 04:12:01 PM
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I know, it's hardly worth it, but with my Elbox 500/8 CPU socket memory board and the fact that sidecar accelerator/SCSI
devices are going for $$$$, it's probably the best I can hope for. I already know about Centsible Software but theirs are PGA chips, not DIP!
Thanks!
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These turn up for cheap on ebay from time to time.
EDIT: Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/68010-P10-ICs-MICROPROCESSORS-IC-MOTOROLA_W0QQitemZ7596836088QQcategoryZ4663QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)'s some, but probably way more than you need.
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I recommend ebay too. In the German section time to time (every week) somebody put up some 68010. Dont't know which MHz, but i think the lowest was 8MHz.
I used a 10MHz in my system years ago, but of course it was clocked only 7,14MHz in my miggy. With a fast memory it was worth at that time.
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Cool! Thanks!
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I might be ordering 1 lot off that eBay auction... yock, if you want just 1 I'll split the cost of 1 + shipping and ask the seller to mail 1 to you, and 2 to me. (I'll make the payment, then you can pay me for the 1.)
I believe 1 comes to about $12.65 (including shipping).
Let me know if you're still looking. I'll keep 2 for my A1000 and A500. :-D
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Oops, nevermind... Just realized you actually bought a lot already.
I guess I'll have to buy 3. 8-)
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Even though 12$ isn't going to ruin your finances, I don't think it's worth it really. You will have to find the CPU, get it shipped, without knowing if it's in working condition, open the miggy, rip the old one out and put in the new CPU. If it's not fully functional, you risk killing your 500. And all that for *nothing* in terms of performance improvement. The rest of the hardware still clocks your CPU at 7mhz
I'd say.. save up a couple of those 12$ and hunt down the good deals. I have my 'Amiga Fund Box' where I put in some money every now and then. When I need something new or when the geek in me orders me to buy amiga stuff, I look in the box :)
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@James: I used in the mid '90 a 68010 in my a500. And the speed perfmance was about 15% gain from the original 68000 in avarage. (The official hipe was speed gain 5-80%) You can say it is nothing but with fast ram i was happy to any speed gain at that time. And my system was more than double in speed than a vanilla a500. For example it gave me one sometimes two more channel to play in digibooster.
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@derringer3
You gotta be kidding me.
The only case sped up was two instruction loops fitting one longword. Say:
.loop: clr.l (a0)+
dbf d0,.loop
This for sure does not give average gain of 15% over 68000, and nowhere I've seen figures of 80%.
Not to mention 68010 has different supervisor programming model, breaking some old games...
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@Piru: try sysinfo.
In digibooster between a 68000 and a 68010 the difference is one or two channel which you can use.
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SysInfo is not generic performance benchmark. SysSpeed is much better (though I don't know if it runs with 68010). No way is 68010 15% faster than 68000 running generic code.
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I remember getting myself a 68010 for my A500 at the end ot the eighties. I was quite excited, not because of the speed, but since it must have been my first "hw modification" ever. :lol:
I remember getting roughly 10% more speed in some AIBB-benchmarks and rendering images with Scene Generator and Mandelbrot stuff was somewhat faster too (at least measurable).
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Yeah i don't want to say that 68010 was/is the ultimate accelerator for amiga. And yes when i change to 68010 sometimes i wanted to see that my miggy is faster in copying, rendering etc, so i saw that, what i want, but in true it was the same. But at that time i want to break trou' the 4 channel "barrier" in music, so every mips, processor time says as you can, which i can gain was my friend. It was not a miracle, and most utils is at at that time slowly goes for 68020 or better, and i have only money at that time for a cheap pc with sb16. So that's why i leave for a while.
ps: don't forget that 68010 is normally a 68000 with the latest factory tech.
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getting a 16mhz 68000 and doing the 14mhz hack will get you more performance.
i always wanted to get the 25mhz 68000 and try 28mhz with the agnes? clock
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KThunder wrote:
getting a 16mhz 68000 and doing the 14mhz hack will get you more performance.
i always wanted to get the 25mhz 68000 and try 28mhz with the agnes? clock
Yeah !!! That 16 mhz and especially the 25 mhz 68000 performances must be really impressive for and Amiga 500
trying to reach the great levels of the 80/90s Arcade machines ! :crazy:
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KThunder wrote:
getting a 16mhz 68000 and doing the 14mhz hack will get you more performance.
i always wanted to get the 25mhz 68000 and try 28mhz with the agnes? clock
Yeah !!! That 14 mhz hack and especially the 25 mhz 68000 performances must be really impressive for and Amiga 500
trying to reach the great levels of the 80/90s Arcade machines ! :crazy:
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I think, my first A500 has still got its '010 inside - in my memory it was like 0-3% faster, in synthetic benchmarks you could read 20%.
I gained quite a bit more by replacing the system clock with a 32 MHz crystal :lol: - my very first overclocking job, 11% faster. My Profex/Philips monitor whined quite a bit about the increased horizontal frequency - but even the blitter was faster. No that I think about it: it probably was the fastest Amiga blitter ever (outside C=). :-D
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The 68010 is a little more useful these days, not because of speed, but because of its VBR, which many WHDLoad installs take advantage of.
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@[Everyone stating a clock crystal hack is better]
Any good How-To's/FAQ's/diagrams that provide good info on doing this and overcoming things such as not being able to use your floppy drive, etc? I'm interested in this... Now that I've acquired a nice A1000, I may experiment with my A500 a bit... See what kind of performance I can squeeze out of this bloated-keyboard-with-a-floppy beast.
At $12.65 including shipping, the 68010 is next to free. Considering that accelerator upgrades for the A500/A1000 go on eBay for the hundreds (US $), a pesimistic average of 3% gains in speed by a $12 CPU isn't really *that* bad.
Does anyone know how it behaves with DPIV?
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The 68010 is a little more useful these days, not because of speed, but because of its VBR, which many WHDLoad installs take advantage of.
Yes, exactly! I was wondering why I kept it in the A500 - that's it. With fast RAM and heavily loaded chip RAM that does make a difference!
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Boy! I started quite a discussion. Anyone interested in the other two chips once I get them? :-)
Seriously though, I just want my A500 to be all it can be...without breaking the bank.....which I kind of already did with the fast memory I bought.
I just enjoy tinkering and tweaking.
I'd love to figure out a way to get my old Mac Plus accelerator (Micromac Performer 16mhz '030) on this thing....but I'm I'm not quite ready to blow it and the Amiga up!
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Piru wrote:
...68010 has different supervisor programming model, breaking some old games...
And some old emulation software - but system-friendly stuff can be fixed via "degrader" applications such as TUDE.
- Ali
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@InTheSand
I always used Decigel in startup. Must have been on one of the first Fred Fish disks. I think it was even reset resident.
Upgrading an AMIGA A1000 with a Motorola MC68010L8 - 29-Mar-86 (http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rsx/decus/rsx86a/150001/68010.txt)
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Ah, had never heard of that!
I only progressed beyond a stock 68000 when I got my A1200 in 1994, and by then was using TUDE for most things degrader-related.
It's here on Aminet (http://aminet.net/package.php/misc/fish/fish-0454), so I might grab it later and take a look!
- Ali
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Ah thanks, it says "update to the version on disk 18" there. Never used the update though.
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MC68010 & 2MB FastMem @ 14,28 MHz
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3192.jpg)
SysInfo Version 3.24
SysInfo 2,89 vs. A600 n. FastMem
SysInfo 2,20 vs. A2000 w. FastMem
SysInfo 1,xx vs. A1200 n. FastMem
(cant remember exactly, but its faster and A2500 ~ 0,8x)
It runs perfectly on my A1000!
With DeciGel patch (modified Kickstartdisk) everthing works 100%.
@piru:
... with a modified exec you´ll never get any problems with a 010!
I thought, that YOU know all about .... :-D
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With DeciGel patch (modified Kickstartdisk) everthing works 100%.
DeciGel is actually only required for _very_ few programs. Basically mainly programs only written with the 68000 in mind and not compatible with any other following 680x0 CPU.
Ah memories, I had a Blizzard Turbo Memory Board myself back in the Nineties. It was always very obvious that there was only little speed advantage when disactivating the Fast-Ram. Note that there were even 14Mhz accelerators without any fast Ram at that time and some people were really expecting to double the speed only by swapping CPU and crystal.
Already tried Interceptor or Knights of the Sky? Nice speed-up there.
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.. with a modified exec you´ll never get any problems with a 010!
Nonsense. You get troubles with 68010 with certain games. These games use supervisor mode directly, assuming 68000, and die horribly. There is absolutely nothing exec can do about it.
exec handles 68000-68030 without any patching, anyway.
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68010 offers VBR, it makes possible to use WHDLOad quit key
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In the '90 i never heard about whdload, and i have tons of games, mostly in floppies, some which can be installed in hdd. I have never problem with 68010. If i have then is about the 3.0 kickstart. But when i switched back to 1.3 these problems are gone.
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The problematic games were from 80s. By 90s the 010 and later CPUs were available and game programmers mostly knew how to handle it properly (that is not to build your own supervisor stackframes, not to use move sr,dn etc)
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Piru wrote:
.. with a modified exec you´ll never get any problems with a 010!
Nonsense. You get troubles with 68010 with certain games. These games use supervisor mode directly, assuming 68000, and die horribly. There is absolutely nothing exec can do about it.
exec handles 68000-68030 without any patching, anyway.
:lol:
The kickstart has a modified exec inside with an .. ta ta .. "enhanced privileged handler".
A trap will lead to execution of this code, it saves all pointers correct the code and jump back to where it came from.
With this kickstart I am able to use trackloader games/demos.
And ... I have no problems!
There are more games/demos having trouble with a stupid mem-expansion.
But if I use my own Kickstart .. Reset - hold both mousebuttons - and than I have only 512KB Chip / 1 Diskdrive and so on!