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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: weirdami on March 11, 2007, 06:46:52 AM

Title: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: weirdami on March 11, 2007, 06:46:52 AM
I have an Amiga 500 that has a mysterious silver box in the trap door that someone wrote "ECS upgrade" on. Any ideas what the deal it is?

There's also a switch on the back of the A500 case. Is that related?
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: skurk on March 11, 2007, 07:44:42 AM
I have no idea, but it sounds very interesting.  Can you post a picture of it?
Title: picture this
Post by: weirdami on March 11, 2007, 08:19:20 AM
It's fully contained in the silver colored metal and is triangular shaped to fit in the hole and has only the connector exposed.
Title: Re: picture this
Post by: HyAmi on March 11, 2007, 08:25:41 AM
I think it's a 512K memory upgrade, one of the early ones. I have one laying around somewhere that suits your description.
Title: Re: picture this
Post by: reddwarfer on March 11, 2007, 09:00:54 AM
Yes!
I have one of them in my A500, don't think its an ECS upgrade. Mine has a 512K memory expansion and a battery backed clock in it.
It should say 'A501' on it
Title: Re: picture this
Post by: alexh on March 11, 2007, 09:04:31 AM
There is a chance that when they sold A500's they had two different memory expansion boards for sale at two different prices.
Title: Re: picture this
Post by: reddwarfer on March 11, 2007, 10:44:56 AM
A501 on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMIGA-HARDWARE-A501-MEMORY-EXPANSION_W0QQitemZ130086439456QQihZ003QQcategoryZ98928QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Is this the expansion your talking about?
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: yock1960 on March 11, 2007, 01:39:29 PM
You should take it out, de-solder the places where it's held together, take the case off and check out the battery. I bought two of these on eBay a few months ago, one battery looked & checked good, the other the battery was corroded. The funny thing was, the board for the corroded one, overall looked better (cleaner) than the one with the 'good' battery. I removed the battery, cleaned & scrubbed them both with electronics cleaner (Radio Shack #64-4345), put a new battery in the one and they both work fine.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on March 11, 2007, 01:44:23 PM
It could be a fatter agnus (or named something like that) has been installed, wich supports 1mb chipmem. One gets practically an A600 compatible A500.
Title: Re: picture this
Post by: weirdami on March 11, 2007, 03:30:30 PM
@reddwarfer

It does look something like that, only not rusty. It's all shiny. :-) Except, I should note, if it matters, that there are three indentations around the edges of the trap-door facing side (two on one long side and one on the other) that look like solder mouth points to keep the case on. And, no stickers, just the permanent marker "ECS upgrade".

I don't have a soldering gun so getting this bad boy open to see the innards would damage the case beyond repair.

Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: weirdami on March 11, 2007, 03:33:01 PM
Is there a command (say on a workbench disk or something) that I can type in to get details that would say definately what this is?

Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
It could be a fatter agnus (or named something like that) has been installed, wich supports 1mb chipmem. One gets practically an A600 compatible A500.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Kronos on March 11, 2007, 04:01:24 PM
"avail" would tell you how much RAM there is (minus the 512k on the A500).

If it tells 1MB of Chip-Mem you got yourself a Big-Agnus for sure. If it's only 512k it still might be a Big-Agnus, that just hasn't been activated (change JP2 and "turn-off" trapdoor-expansion9.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: yock1960 on March 11, 2007, 04:03:03 PM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
Is there a command (say on a workbench disk or something) that I can type in to get details that would say definately what this is?


Well, if you're running WB 2.04, put your Install disk in & run ShowConfig. It will show whether or not you have ECS chips, what your memory nodes are, CPU, etc. Otherwise, go to Aminet and d/l Sysinfo.lha.

Or open a shell window and type 'avail', that will at least show how much of what type of memory you have.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Tenacious on March 11, 2007, 04:36:29 PM
My A501s are all fully enclosed in sheilding as you describe.  The shielding seems to be a "cover their butts" measure for Commodore with the FCC.  I've never noticed interferance without the shielding except near a shortwave reciever.

Even though my A500s all came with 1 Meg Agnus chips, they would only address 512 K of true chip ram on the motherboard.  The A501 was mapped as "slow-fast" ram in the stock configuration.  I changed all of my machines to 1 Meg, except one I changed to 2 Megs of chip.

Maybe someone modified your motherboard for 1 Meg of true chip ram and made the notation on the A501.

I doubt the switch is a stock part.  What is the switch wired to?
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: weirdami on March 12, 2007, 06:17:20 AM
I finally was able to plug this thing in and I discovered that the switch controls making it boot to an "insert workbench v1.3" hand screen and a "2.8 Roms (37.175)" disk inserting itself animation screen. That's probably 2.0, not 2.8, but I'm running it with the black and white out to a television through a vcr and it looks like an 8. :-/ Anyhoo, I guess "ECS Upgrade" means you get ECS chip set. And the switch is for toggling between OCS and ECS. Neat.

Now, someone can tell me what company made this gizmo, or if some A500's came like this from Commodore. Maybe I'll try putting in some disks and trying that showconfig idea.


edit: Yup, showconfig shows "ECS NTSC Agnus" and "Normal Denise".
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Zac67 on March 12, 2007, 07:17:44 AM
Switching ECS/OCS would only be possible with severe modifications and overlay boards. I guess this switch just relocates Ranger Mem $C00000 to $080000 for 1 MB Agnus which makes an ECS Agnus near 100% compatible.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Ideal on March 14, 2007, 01:35:41 AM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
I discovered that the switch controls making it boot to an "insert workbench v1.3" hand screen and a "2.8 Roms (37.175)" disk inserting itself animation screen.


Yes, this is what is called a ROM SWITCH.
This would allow you to mount a 1.3 rom in one socket, and a 2.04 rom in the other, and then you could select from a switch, so as to get maximum compatibility as some games would only run under 1.3.

Quote

weirdami wrote:
I guess "ECS Upgrade" means you get ECS chip set. And the switch is for toggling between OCS and ECS. Neat.


No. The switch does no such thing. As I said the switch merely selects which rom to boot.

Quote

weirdami wrote:
edit: Yup, showconfig shows "ECS NTSC Agnus" and "Normal Denise".


Your conclusion is all wrong.

What this means is as follows. On older Amiga 500 boards you could not get 1mb chip ram. You had 512k on the motherboard, and then when you put in another 512k this will make you have 512k chip and 512k other mem.

This is because the earlier amiga 500 came with 8371 agnus chips, which only support 512k.

So now we come to the part with the ECS NTSC Agnus.

To be able to get 1 meg chip ram, you would then replace the 8371 agnus with the 8372A agnus, and then cut one line on the motherboard near the ram expansion, and cut a connection on JP2 near the ROM, and then you'd be able to have 1 meg chip ram.

And now for the rest of your theory.
You say you have an NTSC Agnus. Why does it say NTSC Agnus? Well let me tell you.

When you mount a 8372A Agnus in a Rev 5 or earlier motherboard, this Agnus will automatically be detected as NTSC. Pin 41 on the agnus will decide if it is NTSC or PAL, and on Rev 5 and earlier pin 41 is grounded.

(I actually worked with this just a few hours ago, and disconnected pin 41 on a 8372A to get PAL mode on one of my A500's, so I know.)

The fact that they have written ECS agnus on there is of little consequence.

So, in short:
The switch only selects the rom to boot, and the reason it says ECS in showconfig is because they've replaced the Agnus with 8372A.

Edit:
There is a description of this mod on aminet, with "drawings":
http://aminet.net/package/hard/hack/1MBChip
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Tenacious on March 14, 2007, 04:12:51 AM
How much chip ram is reported in the title bar?  In ShowConFig?  I'm betting the previous owner completed the 1 Meg Chip modification.

Out of curiousity, I've seem you around for a long time, how have you been getting your Amiga 'fix' before acquiring this machine?
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: weirdami on March 14, 2007, 06:41:56 AM
@Tenacious

When I booted it with ECS on, I remember seeing 800 something KB chip RAM and zero "other". So, I figured it was 1MEG.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: Tenacious on March 14, 2007, 12:55:22 PM
@ weirdami

Sounds right to me.
Title: Re: ECS Upgade for A500
Post by: melange on March 14, 2007, 05:42:35 PM
The 8371 Agnus could handle 512k or 1MB chip, but was not and ECS agnus!  You needed to get at least an 8372A to go ECS.  I upgraded a number of peoples A500's that contained 8371 Agnus from (512k Chip / 512K Slow mem) to 1meg chip, many years ago, simply by cutting and joining jumper pads.  Was very easy.