Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: d0pefish on February 27, 2007, 12:38:31 AM
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Edit:
We're cool now. No need to keep the aggro. :-)
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Obvious question: have you tried phoning/faxing or sending a registered letter? Usually with these things it's a case of Murphy's Law, not bad intent.
He has a point about the bank transfer. IIRC EU legislation stipulates that a bank transfer to an EU (or was it EMU only?) bankaccount shouldn't cost more than a domestic transfer, provided IBAN and BIC/SWIFT-number are mentioned.
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Odin beat me to it, but calling and faxing is always a good option. Barring that. You can always send a letter in a fashion that he has to sign for, something like registered mail here in the States. Best of luck to you on getting in touch with this guy and getting things straight.
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I don't have the means to fax him, and I haven't tried phoning. I'd probably spend another £20 trying to work around the language barrier on the phone.
I'll send a few more emails from other accounts just in case, and if all else fails try a letter.
But I just wondered if anyone knew him on a reasonably personal basis, or if anyone had any other suggestions.
Thanks for your advice, guys.
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20UKP worth of calls is a looooooooooooooooooong time. With Skype or VOIPBuster or whatever you pay ~2 cents per minute ;-).
Anyway, good luck.
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This is his main site, Try contacting there!
http://www.vmc.de/ (http://www.vmc.de/)
List of Webpages (http://www.vmc.de/ger_vmc_web_projekte.html)
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Good old Harald... some people will never change...
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Yeah his name does have a bitter taste attached to it, wasn't he involved in the Amithlon mess?
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Hello Mr. Whinham,
yes it is as "pixie" has said, some ppl. will never change!
ok, now to the facts and details..
My Online Shop (oscommerce based) received your order
at 02.12.2006 00:24:08 with state "open"
At 03.12.2006 03:04:47 *me* send you this email direct
out of the shops customer menu:
Dear Sir,
the product you ordered from us is not available yet. We got
info from manufacturer that it is also unknown if and when he will produce some new cards.
If you want, we can keep you informed about any news when
we are able to get new cards and sell them.
Best regards,
Harald Frank
which Mr. Whinham responded with:
Dear Harald,
This is extremely disappointing, because earlier today I started the wire transfer of 76.70 EUR to your company. This will take roughly less than a week to complete.
My bank account has also charged me nearly £10.00 GBP extra for this transaction, and it is not possible for me to cancel it. How am I going to be refunded?
I received the email from you that contained the IBAN and SWIFT details, and that implied to me that the item was available, and all I had to do was send payment - which is what I have done.
With all due respect, if you are going to advertise items on your website that are not actually available, then I want to be compensated for this extra money that I have now lost. My bank will be sending me a confirmation letter after the transaction has completed, which should have the exact amount that I was charged extra.
Please remove items that you don't have from your website, otherwise other international customers are going to suffer in the same way. I am in desperate need of this card, which is why I was so eager to quickly get payment to you.
Best regards,
-Dale
After this i sent you several emails asking for the
needed bank account information to send money back
and did not get any answer.
At 27.12.2006 22:38:27 i sent again over the online
shops customer menu email:
Hello Dale,
i sent you already 2 emails about need of your bank account
information so that we can transfer your money back. Please
provide me with the needed bank details.
Best regards,
Harald Frank
*TODAY* i received on my info@vmc.de Email address email
from Mr. Whinham about he sent me 5 mails and do still
wait for his money.
What makes me wonder is the untrue comments Nothing. No response.,
then ran away with my money and the later written
I don't have the means to fax him, and I haven't tried
phoning. I'd probably spend another £20 trying to work
around the language barrier on the phone.
I get daily calls from customers worldwide, even the ppl.
from taiwan and china are able to understand my english
well enough todo fine business with my company. For your
money, i will check today with my wife (she is doing the
accounting here) if the money transfer was done or if
there was somethin goin wrong with it. If the transfer
was going wrong, there is a good chance that the bank who
received the money did not sent it back, as long no one
misses it, they park it on extra accounts for that. If
payment is done and Mr. Whinham did not received it, we
can order our bank to clear that up and do transfer it
again if needed.
btw, as i and odin said, the money transfer by IBAN code
within the EU is at the same charge value as a transfer
inside your own country, that's european law. If the bank
do charge £10.00 GBP as Mr. Whinham wrote, he did not
used the IBAN code supplied by email from online shop or
he need to talk again with his bank about this!
Best regards,
VMC, Harald Frank
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Sounds like a simple misunderstanding. However.....
vmc_de wrote:
btw, as i and odin said, the money transfer by IBAN code
within the EU is at the same charge value as a transfer
inside your own country, that's european law.
That's not true. The Bank of England charges UK banks to make transfers to ANY country, even banks within the EU. That means in the UK we still have to pay a surcharge on international bank transfers, even to EU countries.
--
moto
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motorollin wrote:
Sounds like a simple misunderstanding. However.....
vmc_de wrote:
btw, as i and odin said, the money transfer by IBAN code
within the EU is at the same charge value as a transfer
inside your own country, that's european law.
That's not true. The Bank of England charges UK banks to make transfers to ANY country, even banks within the EU. That means in the UK we still have to pay a surcharge on international bank transfers, even to EU countries.
--
moto
Hello moto,
that maybe the case, but me and my company is in the EU
and in case of refund i do only have to pay the money
that *i charged* from the customer and not his bank fee
that he has to charge to his bank. My bank do charge me
regular 7 EUR for money transfer to UK accounts, which
i do have to pay and not the company i was buying from.
If you buy somethin from a german based company, then
the EU/Germany business law is the base for this contract
and not your home countrys law outside the EU/Germany.
Best regards,
VMC, Harald Frank
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The EU regulations (and I have read a summary of them) are to do with transfers in Euro currency. If the currency is not the same between the banks, then the rule does not apply.
If you have a UK bank account in Euro currency the charge would be the same for:
UK (Euro) - Germany (Euro)
as for a
UK (GBP) - UK (GBP)
bank transfer.
Hope that helps.
Hi Harold :-)
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Harald,
Okay, it was a misunderstanding, obviously.
First I'll apologise for coming across harsh, but you must understand my frustration. All is good now, I'm happy you've come and responded.
However, I *did* send you numerous emails. Last night I decided to try one last time with your info@vmc address, which will be the one you have now received.
Here is proof that I did attempt to contact you numerous times - these are screenshots of my GMail account's sent items.
http://lavaburn.untergrund.net/images/misc/1stand2nd.png
http://lavaburn.untergrund.net/images/misc/3rdand4th.png
A fifth message was sent by your ZappShop website's contact form.
Anyway, will you now be be able to refund me?
I do not have any hard feelings for you or your company. I don't even care about things that might have happened with other people in the past. All I want is my money back, Mr. Frank. If you honour that, I will be happy and won't badly name your business.
Regards.
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Hello Mr. Whinham,
as is wrote before, my wife is checking the account
papers to see whats up with that payment. Whatever
the cause was that you did not received it yet, we
make sure that the payment will reach your account
within the next days. My info@vmc.de account is the
one which do not block any email (spam), and any
email there will reach me for sure. I get currently
on my other email adresses an average of 400-700 of
these nice Cialis, bank fraud.. whatever SPAM email
and it is highly possible that your emails gone the
way of the spam filters :P After i got more then
500 spam mails each day, i gave up checking the spam
folder manually..
btw, there is always a good chance to reach me here
in my office by phone over the normal day times :)
Best regards,
VMC, Harald Frank
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Thankyou, Harald.
Yes, I tried the info@vmc address after the address to your other website was posted further up in the thread.
I feel for you with the spam, I've had to abandon two addresses because of it. And again, sorry for bringing this out into the public, but at least I'm now in touch with you. I didn't even know that you read this site, which at the end of the day is a bonus.
Thanks for your help. :-)
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the banks always take a small fee for IBAN transfers within EU. that NOONE can deny.
The 10GPB fee is true, if someone has a bank clerk to do the transfer they abviously charge for the time spent.
In Greece with my bank, if I get the transfer done by the bank I can pay up to 30eur! if I make it my self via web-banking, the charge is 3eur.
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it is anoying when shops advertise items they don't actualy have for sale. It is also silly to send the money with out double checking the availability of anything amiga. Double whammy.
good luck.
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FWIW, I've transfered money from my Dutch bank account to accounts in Germany and Spain and it hasn't cost me a cent.
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yes it is as "pixie" has said, some ppl. will never change!
As well as you past Harald, it will never change... it stands for once for ruining one of the best projects ever made. Well it at least seems that you have no bad will towards your costumer, which is a good thing, but having such a mess of a e-mail address, you're just asking for such kinds of things to happen..
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btw, as i and odin said, the money transfer by IBAN code
within the EU is at the same charge value as a transfer
inside your own country, that's european law. If the bank
do charge £10.00 GBP as Mr. Whinham wrote, he did not
used the IBAN code supplied by email from online shop or
he need to talk again with his bank about this!
Actually, the National Bank of Greece charged me €27 when I wired some money into my British NatWest account using the IBAN number, last summer.
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d0pefish wrote:
Edit:
I guess future people will have to read the replies and piece together what the original post was even about. :pissed:
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I now have the money back, so it's sorted; obiously not the bank transfer fee but at least I got the rest of it.
I don't think there's any need for me to bad-mouth his company any more, especially as he's had the decency to come forward on this forum.
We have exchanged apologies and it's been resolved amicably. Time to move on.
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>The Bank of England charges UK banks to make transfers to ANY country, even banks within the EU.
>That means in the UK we still have to pay a surcharge on international bank transfers, even to EU countries.
In general, EU standard money transfer must be the same price as domestic transfers if:
a) correct SWIFT/BIC and IBAN are given
b) the amount is in EUR (or SEK)
c) not above 50,000 EUR
c) takes place between accounts in EU states (plus Norway, Liechtenstein, Iceland)
d) standard fee agreement, usually "share"
If conditions are not met, the fee may be higher.
If conditions are met, the fee must not be higher.
See EU regulations (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/crossborder/index_en.htm)
UK's practice for dealing with EUR/GBP transfers is shown in a corresponding study (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/docs/reg-2001-2560/impact_en.pdf) (pages 62/63).