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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: amesie2 on February 26, 2007, 12:08:53 AM
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I bought 3 Belkin 'Y' adapters to hook a CF to IDE adapter in two of the 4000's my dad and I have. The part number on the package is F2N508.
The problem is that the RED and YELLOW wires are reversed in the three I have which of course I didn't notice.
I hooked the first one to my dad's 4000T which has an Apollo 3040 in it, when I powered it up we heard a loud pop one of the three PLCC chips exploded the one closest to the SCSI controller on the board marked MACH130-15JC-18JI. I thought dang it must be from the age of the board and something just blew finally. I set his system aside thinking I would see if we can get another Accel. for his machine and we would be in business.
I then turned to my 4000 Mirage with a CSMKIII in it and Mediator, I opened another 'Y' adapter and hooked it to my CF to IDE adapter and fired it up which led to a sizzling noise and a green screen. I turned off my system immediately and started checking things out. I figured the only thing that was added was the 'Y' adapter and upon examination found the RED and YELLOW wires reversed on the small plug end that is the same as a floppy power connector. I looked at the one in dad's system and sure enough his was also wrong, I turned to the one still in the package and it too is wrong.
I looked on the Belkin website and found the 'Y' adapter I had purchased and in the picture on the website the wires are correct.
I started to look over my system after disconnecting the 'Y' adapter and think the CSMKIII is OK but am not 100% sure yet. I did get the system to a boot screen and after putting in an install disk got to a WB screen.
I do know that the IDE port on the 4000D is shot because when I hook a harddrive to the connector it continually reboots with the power led blinking and the HDD light lit constantly.
I think my dad's tower might be in rougher shape since his motherboard probably is blown just like mine plus his accel. is shot too.
I sent an email off to Belkin to see if they will do anything about the reversed wires and replacing our equipment. I have purchased many items from Belkin in the past being an IT admin. and have never had problems with their stuff it has always worked great.
I am in need of a 4000D motherboard now if anyone has one for sale. I did buy one from Stopthegop not too long ago to put my Mirage together. The memory retaining clips were broken except the ones on the CHIP RAM socket. I didn't care because I would just use the memory on my CSMKIII.
I don't need a complete board just one that will work installing ROM chips, Buster chip etc..
any help would be great and appreciated.
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Just an advice: SUE the hardware's manufacturer who blows your hardware!:madashell:
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Wow, I hate to hear stories like that. I don't have an extra board to sell, but your's might not be beyond repair. The accelerator might be lost, but the mother board might still have hope. I'm betting Belkin might say that Amiga is not a supported system and deny your request, but maybe they'll come through.
There is still a repair center in France, but is that cheaper than finding another board I wonder. I kinda "retired" from repairs several years ago when my admin job and family grew to take all my time. I still do repairs occasionally, but time is so short these days I can't commit to schedules for my "hobbies".
You can PM me though and maybe I can help with info and advice.
Plaz
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I would think that Belkin would still have to do something regardless if the Amiga is supported or not, the wires are clearly reversed and probably caused problems with PC's as well which is why they are correct in oriantation on the website.
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The problem is that even though they may admit they are at fault, they will only either replace the damaged part, or, give you what their insurance company says it's worth. They will not give you a replacement. They will say it's worth $5 or something because it's not currently manufactured.
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Yeah,
I know they will probably say that just my luck! I will have to find another motherboard and pray my CS is OK.
As for dad's accel. what a bumber for him his system was in very good shape for it's age.
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Someone I know locally recently had a similar thing happen.
He bought one of those 5.25" + 3.5" adaptor/splitter power cables from the local PC retailer (http://www.dse.co.nz).
Turns out the 5V and 12V wires on the 3.5" connector were swapped, which wrote off his high density floppy drive.
Cable was unbranded aside from "Made in Taiwan". Ahhh, the land of superior quality control.
He took it back to the shop, explained his situation and they forked out for a new Amiga HD floppy drive.
I really didn't expect they'd do it, but some places try to go overboard with good customer service.
Your situation seems pretty nasty. Sounds like it's given 12V to all the 5V logic which would have done a *lot* of damage :-(
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Surely this kind of thing is a flaw of the original Amiga hardware. Shouldn't there be fuses integrated through the motherboard to prevent one single overload destroying everything?
I read about Dave Haynie's prototype AAA board being fried by the engineers due to a wobbly memory socket short circuit.
Maybe you could contact that French Amiga repair company:
http://www.amigacenter.com/Homer.html
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amesie
I think you should tell Belkin that you are going to have to repair that motherboard and that you expect them to pay for those repairs. Otherwise you will take legal action.
Send those mobos to JJ in France, he will fix them.
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Good companies will usually go the distance to keep customers happy when it's their fault, it'd be worth a try.
Besides. They should be suitably grateful to be notified of a faulty batch of product and the potential to be sued for millions by some unhappy corporation.
I think you should tell Belkin that you are going to have to repair that motherboard and that you expect them to pay for those repairs. Otherwise you will take legal action.
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Ouch, sad to hear this has happened :-(
It's a wake-up call though for people to check these splitters befeore you connect them...I CETAINLY WILL! :-o
Using Belkin stuff alot here
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It's not a fault with the original Amiga hardware. The motherboard has fuses and series limiting resistors already, such as on the DC outputs of mouse, RGB, serial ports. That's already more than many home computers have.
Fusing won't protect against an overvoltage situation like that. You'd have to implement a clamp/crowbar circuit which adds more cost and complexity to the design.
If there has been 12V applied to the 5V rail, it's not an easy fix. Most of the semiconductors on the board are 5V only. If the components don't fail instantly, they can fail prematurely in the future.
Short of replacing all the 5V logic (nearly every IC on the board) you can't guarantee a repaired board would keep going for any length of time. No harm in trying though.
I'd be very hesitant to approach such a job myself, JJ would probably be the same.
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Whilst I can sort of understand that 12V might fry circuits intended for 5V I could never work out why static would do so.
Also, what was +12v and -12v for in relation to the serial port?
I think this is a case of complete company neglience, I would usually expect to fry something myself - not for the product involved to be the killer!
:-(
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I would think that Belkin would still have to do something
I agree and I hope they come through. We use there equipment where I work. Their customer service has always been tops for us. If it's a clear manufacturing error, you should get compensated.
P.S. to every one..
Since PC and Amiga equipment don't always match color codes, it can make tricky hooking up thrid party equipment. Do lots of homework and even check things with an ohm meter if possible.
Plaz
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Hey guys,
I agree, never thought I would have to check someone elses work since there has been a standard in place for years and certainly if I buy something in the package from a well known company.
I do have an attorney that I do PC work for that will probably give me some advice on what action I can take. I know that the cost of the dammages isn't cheap due to the somewhat rarity and price for certain Amiga items.
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Another potential problem I've heard of is when people are making home-brew parallel port network cables.
The 2.5" IDE header on the A1200 motherboard isn't perfect either (it's hard to spot the '0' number printed on the motherboard and the header can be put on back to front).
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Ouch. Your story makes me very sad. It's especially cringeworthy to hear of the loss of two good A4000 system in one go! You did nothing wrong - it's something I couldn certainly have fell victim to. I would definitely try getting these boards repaired if at all possible, especially if it's going to be covered by Belkin. All original Amigas are now a finite resource and should never be tossed until there is no last resort.
Even if you can't fix them, keep them for parts, or sell them on Ebay as damaged. There is always SOMEONE out there who needs some obscure Amiga part you never thought was significant to restore a working Amiga.
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@ral-clan
True Amiga motherboards are becoming harder and harder to get especially ones that work and without batt. damage.
I plan on keeping the boards I have and use them for parts or maybe send them off for repair if they can be.
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I wonder if there is enough surviving from both boards to combine the parts and at least get one working A4000. The fellow in France will know....thank goodness we have people like that still around. I hope he's young and will be in business many more years!
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@amesie2
It certainly does not hurt to contact the amiga repair center and explain to them exactly the situation and find out wether it is worth it. It would be such a shame to not have it repaired considering how rare these systems are getting.
I myself would repair it even if it would cost a tad more than the mobo.
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@tomas
I did contact ARP and he wasn't sure without having the boards in hand what could be done.
I will probably be sending him the boards to see if they are repairable, he did say that diagnostic is free and that I just had to pay shipping. This sounds very reasonable to me.
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and then (if fixable), ask to Belkin for a refund for the repair service. (ask JJ for a proforma invoice also)
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ebay (http://search.ebay.de/_W0QQsassZamix68k)
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Whilst I can sort of understand that 12V might fry circuits intended for 5V I could never work out why static would do so.
Cos static can easily be in the order of 1000's of volts. If you build up enough to create a spark, then you're talking around 10,000+
Also, what was +12v and -12v for in relation to the serial port?
Level shifting.
The Amigas CIAs take 5v I/O, but the RS-232 standard calls for upto +/- 15v.
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Makes me feel lucky...I bought a CF to IDE convertor and just plugged it into my A4000T. I didn't even think about it, just made sure I matched pin 1 with connector 1.
Okay, I had bad luck with a fool who blew one of CIA chips with a Parnet cable, but the amount of PC / generic stuff I have plugged in, this A4000T has been fine. I'm going to be much more careful from now on.
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I did find a 4000D on Ebay to hopefully get mine going again. I just hope my CSMKIII survived the ordeal unlike my dad's accel. which blew one of the PLCC chips on the board. I did find some replacement chips for his but I beleive they are programable chips which might not do me any good.
The markings on the chip are MACH130-15JC-18JI anyone have any clues on this the accel board is an Apollo 3040?
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amesie2 wrote:
I did find a 4000D on Ebay to hopefully get mine going again. I just hope my CSMKIII survived the ordeal unlike my dad's accel. which blew one of the PLCC chips on the board. I did find some replacement chips for his but I beleive they are programable chips which might not do me any good.
The markings on the chip are MACH130-15JC-18JI anyone have any clues on this the accel board is an Apollo 3040?
Even if you did get a new chip, you'd need to program it... which only Apollo can/could do...
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I just tried my CSMKIII in another 4000T and it worked great, I guess the voltage didn't blow the board just the motherboard.
This is awsome!!!!!
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Thats great news! Glad the card is ok. Thanks for the heads up on your ordeal. Makes you want to double check everything before you plug it in.
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Hello,here is something that might be of interest
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Commodore-Amiga-4000-A4000-computer-motherboard_W0QQitemZ120091184836QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4598QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
as this is my first post,cheers to everybody--paul
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I think all circuit boards and chips should be made brilliant white so you can easily see when things have burnt, leaked or popped!
:-D
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@amesie2:
sorry you (and the 2 A4000's and the Apollo) had to go through all this so we all learn :-(
But to tell you the truth, I was _almost_ a victim of the same. I was testing PC floppy drives with cable hacks to see if they worked on Amiga, and I was using a PC power supply. I forget what happened next, except this: I ended up plugging my High Density (!!!) Chinon (for testing?) to an Amiga power supply, with the blue/orange cables. I think I mistook the orange for yellow (or red), and aligned it as I did with the PC power supply. Turn it on, and I immediately smell something. Flick! Power off. Then I noticed a small plume of smoke coming from an SMD cap or resistor, I forget. Luckily no pop for me. Plug it in the other way. Turn it on again and hold me breath. A few seconds later I hear the grinding!! BIG EXHALATION!! The drive was OK! Damn Chinons are made of ROCK! I almost fried that sucker...
Good recuperations amesie2
Oh, I forgot: I suggest you do what X-Ray said. Tell Belkin you sent it in for repairs and get a receipt or something from the French fellow (I've heard only good things about him). If you tell'em it's an Amiga, I really don't think you'll get a break. There are no "good companies" anymore.