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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: Chubbyrain on February 18, 2007, 11:34:09 PM

Title: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on February 18, 2007, 11:34:09 PM
Title says it all. Need an A1200 with a US PSU in good condition and working order.

I will consider going a little higher if it's got 3.1 roms and  a decent hdd/ram set up.

Money waiting.

p.s. Dragonlady need not apply.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on February 19, 2007, 12:17:46 AM
no offence but thats not even close to enough.
Got a brand new keyboard, rom 3.1, hard disk with os 3.9/3.1, wireless...  this offer is laughable.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: TjLaZer on February 19, 2007, 12:27:23 AM
Yes, remember nice NTSC units cost 2 or 3 times the going rate in Europe!  Get a PAL unit for that kind of money or less...
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: giZmo350 on February 19, 2007, 12:39:35 AM
ROTFLMAO!  :roflmao:

I have a Sega Genesis I'll let ya have for that. RARE! LOL
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on February 19, 2007, 01:23:32 AM
ah the usual 'godly' bandwaggoners.

I'm not in Europe, so neener.

and UNLESS you have one for sale, I'm not asking for your approval or comments. I'll offer what I feel it's worth and if no takers then I'll stick with the emulator.

Spend your own money, not mine.

EDIT: Sorry for ranting, but unless you can offer something constructive then don't come trolling. I live in the US so it makes sense to me to locate a NTSC amiga to work with the monitor I have.  So sue me.

The etiquette with some people is seriously lacking. I've been out of the Amiga world for over 10 years and only am back for nostalgia purposes. Naturaly, I don't know as much about what's worth what as someone who has been clinging to this dying (some would say dead) platform for the last 10 years.

I would respond in a more friendly manner to someone  who comes and says 'A NTSC model is rare and most likely wouldn't be sold for less than $$$ or I have one but I'm really looking for $$$' would go down a lot better than 'LOL no way LOL I'll sell you this game console LOL' kind of reply.

I came here to escape greedy Ebayers after all.

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on February 19, 2007, 06:50:15 PM
and UNLESS you have one for sale, I'm not asking for your approval or comments. I'll offer what I feel it's worth and if no takers then I'll stick with the emulator.

- It's a forum.  anyone can post & comment. :-)

greedy Ebayers?

- I'm not sure about "greedy".  it's the going market rate, sometimes below market rate in my opinion.  If you can't afford it then I suggest sticking to free emulators.  BTW, to use a ROM legally, you should own one of the machines. ;-)

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on February 19, 2007, 07:05:00 PM
Yes you can post comments but trolling is never welcomed on any forum.

As for the comment about not affording it. It's not a case of being not able to afford it it, it's a case of what 10 year old discontinued and outdated computer parts are worth to an individual. I buy Apple hardware so I'm used to paying a premium for something if I feel it's worth it.

At the end of the day, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. It's not as if an A1200 has a MSRP anymore, since you can't walk into Best Buy and see them on sale. If there was no Ebay, you'd probably find them in a yard sale next to an old bicycle and some Vinyl records.

As for the emulator, it's Amiga Forever and it's paid for and registered :)

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Akiko on February 19, 2007, 07:05:56 PM
You can purchase refurbished NTSC Amiga 1200's from Amigakit (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=305&osCsid=5a3b3329bd376b921b5f6a7642240764)
I'm sure it will be in pristine condition and include warranty. :-)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: yetihw on February 19, 2007, 07:07:47 PM
Welcome back, I like you a lot already.  You are definitely honest and will speak your mind.....Bravo.

Anyway I've spent a small fortune on my Amiga 2000 and have not succeeded in getting it to run consistently or right for that matter.  I spent the money to learn the OS and the hardware, whatever.......

My advice for you to consider is to stay with emulation for now then look at one of two options

1. The Efika running morphos with as I understand a relatively seemless Amiga emulator for nearly all old programs.

2. One of the trillions of promised Amiga OS4 boards that also has a somewhat seemless Amiga "classic" emulator.  It looks like the Sam board or samatha may actually materialize.

I too love the old machines and the "feel" of running Native  but having gone down that road myself through Ebay I wouldn't recommend it to anybody.  I mean as far a nostalgia goes you can get many 8 bit computers for 20 bucks and other 16 bit machines  for 100 or so.  The Amiga market is nuts plain and simple in fact I've seen several Amiga 2000 video toasters go on ebay for next to nothing but the same boards in those machines go for 130 dollars and up.  Its become a fool or be fooled market with bits of information and compatibility fragments scattered throughout the web, which leaves us the newbies or the outta touch till now at the guru's mercy.

Don't do it.  Start over with a new product and go from there.

My 2 cents

Neil

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: odin on February 19, 2007, 07:24:04 PM
There are no 'new' products available running 68k software (yet). I've been waiting for god knows how long for new products, so that strategy doesn't work either, I've stopped waiting the moment I sold my BlizPPC.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: motrucker on February 20, 2007, 06:31:11 AM
Quote

terminator4 wrote:


greedy Ebayers?

- I'm not sure about "greedy".  it's the going market rate, sometimes below market rate in my opinion.  If you can't afford it then I suggest sticking to free emulators.  BTW, to use a ROM legally, you should own one of the machines. ;-)



The hell with eBay! They are full of crooked "dealers" and are rather crooked themselves.
I stopped dealing with eBay over a year ago. I do much better through members here and with Craigslist.

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on February 20, 2007, 06:47:59 AM
Good luck. I paid 275 for mine.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on February 20, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
> Yes you can post comments but trolling is never welcomed on any forum.

True.

> As for the comment about not affording it. It's not a case of being not able to afford it it, it's a case of what 10 year old discontinued and outdated computer parts are worth to an individual.

Well to you maybe $150 to others it more.  I found your offer unreasonable as did other(s) here.  Anyway I still think its pointless to make WTB offer on a forum.  Just go to ebay and buy stuff there.

> At the end of the day, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

I agree, but if you post your offer, I have the right to post what I think of it, and thats not trolling.

> If there was no Ebay, you'd probably find them in a yard sale next to an old bicycle and some Vinyl records.

I doubt it.  I got to many flea markets over 10 yrs and never did i see A1200.

> As for the emulator, it's Amiga Forever and it's paid for and registered :)

I don't think much about Amiga Forever.  I doubt that they even pay a license fee to Amiga Inc.  but thats another topic.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on February 20, 2007, 03:57:37 PM
Quote

I came here to escape greedy Ebayers after all.


I am with you on the eBay'ers. That place makes me want to vomit. But at the same time I want to notify you that your "bid" is unrealistic.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on February 20, 2007, 04:01:58 PM
Quote

yetihw wrote:
Welcome back, I like you a lot already.  You are definitely honest and will speak your mind.....Bravo.

Anyway I've spent a small fortune on my Amiga 2000 and have not succeeded in getting it to run consistently or right for that matter.  I spent the money to learn the OS and the hardware, whatever.......

My advice for you to consider is to stay with emulation for now then look at one of two options

1. The Efika running morphos with as I understand a relatively seemless Amiga emulator for nearly all old programs.

2. One of the trillions of promised Amiga OS4 boards that also has a somewhat seemless Amiga "classic" emulator.  It looks like the Sam board or samatha may actually materialize.

I too love the old machines and the "feel" of running Native  but having gone down that road myself through Ebay I wouldn't recommend it to anybody.  I mean as far a nostalgia goes you can get many 8 bit computers for 20 bucks and other 16 bit machines  for 100 or so.  The Amiga market is nuts plain and simple in fact I've seen several Amiga 2000 video toasters go on ebay for next to nothing but the same boards in those machines go for 130 dollars and up.  Its become a fool or be fooled market with bits of information and compatibility fragments scattered throughout the web, which leaves us the newbies or the outta touch till now at the guru's mercy.

Don't do it.  Start over with a new product and go from there.

My 2 cents

Neil



Amen, brother. I wouldn't pay an arm and a leg for 20 year old hardware that could die at any momemt. The most expensive Amiga I have I paid 475 for and it was a brand new 4000T demo unit from a local dealer who still happened to be in business.

I also paid 275 for a NIB A1200 "Magic Pack" setup but that is only because I sold a 1200 for that very same price a week before. The one I sold came in a garage sale lot: two 1200s and four 500s for $50. So yeah if you're diligent you will find them!
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on February 20, 2007, 05:17:27 PM
Thank you for the support and responses. I will respectfully agree to disagree with some of you over what I feel is an overinflated sense of actual market value for this old hardware.

I will say this though. Never underestimate the power of a yard sale. I've found many interesting things. Recently I got a CBM Pet 2001 and TRS-80. Both in working order.

Never underestimate the power of a dumpster either. I've recovered three Powermac 7300s, one IBM Model 95 server and an Amiga 500 sans cables and PSU. I also found an ST but I left that behind.

As for the 1200, my offer stands. The way I see it, my money is earning interest whilst the yellowing hardware is gathering dust. I said I would go a little higher, but to put things in context, if I can get the  A1200 you are selling for the same price from Amigakit AND get a warranty, then maybe you are asking too much for it. As rightly stated above, this is old kit and the next power on could be it's last.

Time is on my side and I can always use an emulator in the meantime. I just want an actual unit for those moments of nostalgia that demand a 'hands on' tactile experience.

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Homer on February 20, 2007, 05:41:46 PM
Chubbyrain -
Quote
I also found an ST but I left that behind.


 :banana:  :banana:  :banana:  :banana:  :banana:  :banana:

Yup, I like Chubbyrain too  :lol:
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on February 20, 2007, 05:45:08 PM
Shush! I would have grabbed the ST! Man I like STs! I have a 520, a 1040, a TT and Falcon! :P
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Ross1 on February 20, 2007, 06:59:13 PM
There are deals to be had in the Amiga market. I got my second A4000D 040 with Toaster Flyer for $150US just recently. Now thats a rare deal but still if your patient (I waited a long time) they can be found.
But no mater how hard you want to think that paying $150 for a nice 1200 you may just be dreaming.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Damion on February 20, 2007, 07:43:27 PM
I dunno... $150 seems realistic, I found a NIB NTSC unit from a dealer in Cali, cost me $125 shipped. That was a few years ago now, but I'm sure you'll find one for under $200 if you keep looking. I searched off and on for about two weeks before finding one.


Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Ral-Clan on February 20, 2007, 08:08:20 PM
I will fall on the side of the original poster and say that expecting to pay $150 for an Amiga 1200 is not really unreasonable.  If he'd offered $50 or even $75 I would have dismissed him.

You won't find this price on Ebay or from a dealer, though.  There is *always* a buyer on Ebay who has bottomless pockets and will outbid you.  Ebay has made all sorts of obscure hardware easily available, but unfortunately the competition from buyers has really driven up prices.

However, if you perservere and advertise locally in the "buy and sell" papers, look in thrift stores and go to flea markets and garage sales you *might* find an Amiga for a really good price.

I picked up an Amiga 500 for $2.99 Canadian once at a Goodwill.  Bought another with sidecar hard-drive for $35. Got an Amiga 1000 and sidecar for about $10.  Got an Amiga 2000/030 plus DKB Megachip, tower case & 1084 monitor for $180.  Purchased an Amiga 3000 with graphics card & 040 board for $250.  I realise I've been fortunate with these finds (knock on wood).

But these types of deals are few and far between.  Most of the time they involved lots of searching and hours of driving to pick up the hardware.  Anytime I wanted something *right away* I've had to pay through the nose for it.

Sure, lots of Amigas sell for $150+ on Ebay, but remember that LOTS (more?) Amigas get sent to the landfill every day too.  If you had some sort of magical machine that could scan your neighbourhood for Amigas put on the curb for the garbage truck, you'd never have to pay for one again!
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: giZmo350 on February 20, 2007, 08:18:28 PM
There is THIS ONE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270089866044&rd=1&rd=1) on ebay at the moment. Price is reasonable now but they always seem to skyrocket in the last few minutes. I myself have been trying to get one for over 2 years now.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: DonP1 on February 20, 2007, 08:27:59 PM
Quote

Chubbyrain wrote:

Time is on my side and I can always use an emulator in the meantime. I just want an actual unit for those moments of nostalgia that demand a 'hands on' tactile experience.



I am puzzled why you would want to throw away $150 if you have an emulator. Is having the actual hardware really worth it?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: giZmo350 on February 20, 2007, 08:46:59 PM
""I am puzzled why you would want to throw away $150 if you have an emulator. Is having the actual hardware really worth it?""

See, that's just it! Having the actual HW is IT! Just look on Craig's List and here's what you'll find when you search (don't get me started on Craig's List search capabilities) Amiga

"I'm a nostalgia loving, hardware hacking 80's and 80's computer fanboy seeking any and all Commodore and Commodore Amiga computer hardware, peripherals and all third party add-ons, upgrades, etc. C64/65/128, A500, 600, 1000, 1200, 2000, 2500, 3000, 4000, CD32, CDTV, Video Toaster, AmigaONE - you name it, I'll take it off your hands.

Free, Trade, or reasonable prices are all good. Get in touch and let me know what you have available.

I'll be happy to pick up whenever possible, arrange for pickup or pay for shipping when applicable."

There are only two reasons that peeps want the HW that badly (or a 3rd that I eluded to last week). Like me, to play with it, mod it, run SW, and see what kind of tricks you can make it do. Or, to sell it on ebay (I'm not saying that's what Chubbyrain wants to do). When you can snag "OLD 80's HW" for FREE or near free, you can make a 1000% return on your investment. It IS crazy that Amiga is worth more than GOLD! I always wonder WHERE all this HW comes from on ebay. Well, when you have all these systems sitting around in people's garages and attics that have no clue about ebay - you can get the stuff REAL cheap. I would admit that it probably is time consuming to hunt the stuff down though.

Anyhoo, it's a shame that it's sooo expensive on ebay. As far as supply and demand goes, ebay dictates the sky high prices and as long as peeps keep paying them, there will always be high prices and small amounts of the stuff (if I had a couple hundred A1200's, I would dole them out one at a time on ebay too).

Getting one is pretty much a hit or miss thing. Now speaking of NOT using ebay, I've tried to get one from peeps on this site or AW.Net and there's just no way! The pockets of the members are way deeper than mine. And I'm not about to beg and grovel (no insinuation intended at anyone).

I guess my point is that "time is NOT on your side"
What you really need is a FRIEND!  :-D
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Ral-Clan on February 20, 2007, 09:15:46 PM
Quote
DonP1 wrote:
I am puzzled why you would want to throw away $150 if you have an emulator. Is having the actual hardware really worth it?


Why fix up an original classic car when you can buy a modern kit car replica?  Why go rock climing when you can just go to one of those rock climbing gyms?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: giZmo350 on February 20, 2007, 09:18:45 PM
New HW on the market should make the prices of the old stuff go down on ebay though!  :-)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on February 20, 2007, 09:25:34 PM
Yes, you nailed it exactly. Although I would never equate using an Amiga to climbing a mountain. That I would reserve for setting up a  token-ring network!

The fun of owning one is to mess around and expand it to limits you never imagined possible back in the day.

You may think me mad for have a Commodore 128d, but I just love to bust that out every couple of months and mess around with the old floppy disks.

Thanks again for all the positive advice and help.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: DonP1 on February 20, 2007, 09:40:51 PM
I guess I'm still puzzled, but if you say so, then I'll hang onto my hardware.

I have a C64C with the 4MHz card and other goodies, and a highly mod'ed A1000, but I can't see too much difference between my emulators and the actual hardware. For one, it's a lot easier hauling around the entire system with software in a 1GB thumbdrive than it is to go down to the basement in winter just to play the hardware. My biggest issue with the emulator is lack of a USB joystick for my laptop.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: giZmo350 on February 20, 2007, 09:58:18 PM
Quote

DonP1 wrote:
For one, it's a lot easier hauling around the entire system with software in a 1GB thumbdrive than it is to go down to the basement in winter just to play the hardware.


hahahahahaha! Good point!   :lol:
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on February 21, 2007, 02:37:01 AM
I wish I had a basement. I'd keep the wife in it and the Amiga upstairs in the warm.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on February 21, 2007, 08:33:29 AM
well, mainly based on the response from you guys on this, i just bought a NTSC Amiga 1200 for $200+. doesn't come with much at all (no manuals or OS disks even), and has an 80mb HD installed. sound ok? i figure for what i want (don't like the looks of tower or PC-style 1/2/4000) it's probably the best Amiga i can get. honestly, i wouldn't like to pay more than $150 myself but after looking around i see that's not much of an option. seems ~$200 is more realistic.

not sure why i'm surprised by this, i'm a converted Atari user that knows very well what Falcon030's or even nice STE's can sell for. (then again, i don't think any Commodore or Amiga could match the build quality of an Atari.) there's just that part of me that knows there's probably hundreds of Commodore, Amiga, or Atari sytems out there at garage sales or flea markets or :gasp: computer recycling places that could be had for a few dollars. it's this endless search for the $20 system that has warped my perspective over the years. and at the same time i have a $2000 synthesizer, a $1000 laptop, a $500 set of monitors, a $500 audio interface, etc, etc... all this and i still don't want to pay more than $20 for a C64! :-P good way to get started, i guess...

so, i guess i've now bought three Amigas in the past week. :-o good way to get started, i guess...
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: TjLaZer on February 21, 2007, 09:05:14 AM
Well deals can be had, I recently got a very nice shape NTSC A1200 with monitor, Blizzard 1230 IV, external floppy and printer for $20 on Craigs List!!  But I did pay $170 for a A1200 a few years back on the rip off bay.  All I know is that NTSC units fetch a lot more than PAL units, so unless you are in a hurry wait it out and check CL or other places, you might get lucky.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: PaperMario on February 21, 2007, 09:11:49 AM
pretty good price for A1200, but only if it's a ntsc model.
asked for mine simliar amount.
I saw one recently that sold for $250+ on ebay(computer only).
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on February 21, 2007, 02:24:09 PM
Quote

PaperMario wrote:
pretty good price for A1200, but only if it's a ntsc model.
asked for mine simliar amount.
I saw one recently that sold for $250+ on ebay(computer only).


This is because eFraud is a pit of vipers! The price something fetches on eBay is by no means an accurate measure of its value. I don't know why some people use eBay prices as a measuring stick for an item's worth. That mindset is completely ludicrous.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on March 13, 2007, 03:16:42 PM
Quote

value. I don't know why some people use eBay prices as a measuring stick for an item's worth. That mindset is completely ludicrous.


Because one can get that much...
Why should i sell for less?  A person may be better off to keep it then.  Sure some prices are far fetched, but its a collectible just like cars.
im posting this as a FYI and as a record (that I wasn't pulling things out of the sky) that an amiga 1200 can be worth as much $400, with network card, rom 3.1/os 3.1 and 16mb and 68030 board.  but definitely more than $150.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150098912316
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: KThunder on March 13, 2007, 04:45:21 PM
i got an ntsc 1200 with psu and 4meg memory card for $100

i sold the memory card for 35  

put a 50mhz 030 accl with 32 meg ram in to it and got a multisync monitor and sold the whole thing for 200 to buy my 3000 (which im thinking of selling((it has 3.1 roms,3.1 on hd retina video full chip and fast etc,etc))
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: James on March 13, 2007, 05:03:40 PM
Buy a PAL unit, and send Agnus' pin41 to GND. There you go... an NSTC unit.


But euh.... I've got an NTSC 1200 here and I would exchange it *any day* for a PAL unit. Find me a working PAL unit, and I will give you my NTSC one. It's near mint, only slightly yellowing on the keys. I'm keeping my accel and ram though. I'm in Montreal so shipping wouldn't be a problem... lemme know. random_zak[at]hotmail[dot]com
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 13, 2007, 05:05:07 PM
How is that done?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: James on March 13, 2007, 05:09:15 PM
On an NSTC unit, you lift pin41 from the socket, send it to +5 via a 4.7k resistor and boom, its a PAL unit. I'm just assuming the reverse is true really... though Im not responsible if you burn your mobo :)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 13, 2007, 05:10:48 PM
Mine is an NTSC so I am ok :)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 13, 2007, 08:49:36 PM
Quote

ral-clan wrote:
Quote
DonP1 wrote:
I am puzzled why you would want to throw away $150 if you have an emulator. Is having the actual hardware really worth it?


Why fix up an original classic car when you can buy a modern kit car replica?  Why go rock climing when you can just go to one of those rock climbing gyms?



Because it's a FAKE EXPERIENCE!
Because it's an ILLUSION, and your smarter brain (not the one that typed the abve message), CAN and WILL tell the difference!

People, watch the first Matrix movie. Pay attention to the steak scene. Understand the reason you're are who you are: only human. And that means tangible creatures in a 4 dimensional world. We've not been "jacked in yet" (although we're getting much closer). So that means that tactile sense and tangibility is inate and insubordinate.

Emulators are cool and fun, but you're only fooling yourself, for as long as you can.

Now, don't take this wrong: I'm not dismissing emulators. I think having both is good. Especially if you need to do anything that needs to exceed the computing power of the native hardware.

All I'm saying is: have both (covers you legally too :)

Lastly for prices: I certainly don't like high prices, as I'm not the one with the deep pockets, yet seeing how the Amigas still command such high prices and trying to understasnd it, I've come to the conclusion that it's NOT due to the "greedy eBayers" people. It's simple: that "old" "retro" "80's" "vintage" "yellowing" (shame on you who uttered these words) Amiga is JUST THE BEST FREAGGING HOME COMPUTING MACHINE EVER MADE!!!!!!!!!

Certain people (most), understand this, believe this and are willing to pay for it. If you want to change this, you have to convince this majority otherwise. Good luck, because you'll be starting with a false promise.

SO SHUT UP YOUR CRYING AND WHINNING! You're not getting an IBM clone, nor an Amstard, nor an Atari, nor a Mac. You're getting the BEST. PERIOD. And that means you'll pay top bucks, 10 years later, and 20 years later, and even more down the road.

And after all, if they were such "unworthy" items, why the hell do you want one? GO HOME, YOU LAZY BUMS! (You're lazy because as certain people pointed in this thread, IF you do your homework and be patient, you'll pay very little for your Amiga, because afterall, you want it for free, because you THINK it's worth as much as an Atari, etc..)

Finally: think of where ELSE you spent your money. I bet that "BRAND NEW" (Made in China) printer or scanner you bought cost almost as much as $100, and yet you KNOW that P.O.S. (piece of s...) will BREAK, GUARANTEED, in less than 1 year, or nearing the 1 year warranty date, _UNLIKE_ that Amiga. So _why_ is such an AWESOME machine that lasts, oh, about 20+ years already, not worth that $100-300 price? EH?? WHY??? Keep on shopping your plastic garbage, and being suckered every year by changing interfaces and "1 year death-designs", and leave this "old vintage" hardware to us, ok?


Note: I like other old-school hardware, including Atari's :-), but I know what's number one.

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 13, 2007, 08:53:09 PM
Quote

Anyway I've spent a small fortune on my Amiga 2000 and have not succeeded in getting it to run consistently or right for that matter.  I spent the money to learn the OS and the hardware, whatever.......

My 2 cents

Neil


Errr... please don't listen to this dribble, because there are THOUSANDS of peolpe who've done the same and the hardware works just fine for them.

Sure there are problems, as with ALL hardware (ever tried a PC? heck, even my Macs have had hardware problems), but most of it is documented, and extremely well for such "old vintage" hardware such as the Amiga.

Just like anything else in life (notice: this does not apply to lazy people), do some research and reading, and you won't fall in the holes. Simple.

So for the record: my Amigas work perfectly. Only time I had trouble was wheen hardware burned or died (which, surprise!, happens on any hardware that exists on this planet!)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 13, 2007, 09:03:22 PM
Quote

jbuonacc wrote:
computer recycling places that could be had for a few dollars. it's this endless search for the $20 system that has warped my perspective over the years. and at the same time i have a $2000 synthesizer, a $1000 laptop, a $500 set of monitors, a $500 audio interface, etc, etc... all this and i still don't want to pay more than $20 for a C64! :-P good way to get started, i guess...


That's what I'm talking about! Look at the where money goes!

Now that's a guy I like: jbuonacc. Honest and realistic.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 13, 2007, 09:06:39 PM
Quote

gdanko wrote:
This is because eFraud is a pit of vipers! The price something fetches on eBay is by no means an accurate measure of its value. I don't know why some people use eBay prices as a measuring stick for an item's worth. That mindset is completely ludicrous.


No, that's not true. If you sit down and compare eBay prices with prices in ami-bench, and various forums and of course NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT "freebies" from Craiglist, then you'll realize that people selling an Amiga and KNOWING what they are selling, will quote simlar prices.

You can't realistically say that "market value" includes people who DON'T know what they are selling, because it's like telling me that a kid in Africa that tries to sell you a "pretty rock" for $1, which then you take home and realize is a diamond, all of a sudden makes the "market value" for diamonds lower. I don't think so.

Note: I'm not necessarily an eBay lover, in fact most of the times I've lost most bids I really wanted to those with deeper pockets, etc, but I'm not unrealistic enough to make it be the sole reason for the high prices.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: James on March 13, 2007, 09:47:14 PM
Was it necessary to post 4 times in a row to say this?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 13, 2007, 09:47:21 PM
Just a little clarification: I'm passionate about what I write and Amigas, so please don't be fully offended when reading my posts... I wasn't angry and yelling at you in particular, just being very assertive and speaking in general. Blah, you can always ignore it too, but I just hope my logic can be seen as lucid and reasonable.

And with that: Amiga OR DIE! :-D
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 13, 2007, 09:48:22 PM
@James:

I find it hard to read posts with multiple quotes, so I was trying to keep each quote separate. Forgive the wordiness.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 14, 2007, 01:28:23 AM
Quote

da9000 wrote:
... because afterall, you want it for free, because you THINK it's worth as much as an Atari, etc...


?? not sure i understand this one... a stock Falcon030 is worth a good bit more than a comparable(?) A1200, and a nice ST setup will get more than an A500. they're not exactly spec'd alike, but as for comparing competing models...

and of course everyone knows that Atari's product design and quality control were always leagues beyond that of Commodore/Amiga. ;-)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: huronking on March 14, 2007, 01:47:52 AM
Ok, so anyone have a piss-yellow A1200 for sale?

 :-D  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 14, 2007, 02:05:13 AM
Quote

terminator4 wrote:
... an amiga 1200 can be worth as much $400, with network card, rom 3.1/os 3.1 and 16mb and 68030 board.  but definitely more than $150.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150098912316


is that thing just missing a screw in the right front, or is it more serious? looks pretty scary, love the way he describes it as 'mint'. :lol:
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: justthatgood on March 14, 2007, 03:59:06 AM
First an word of opinion to a lot of eBay haters.



Screw you!!!!



That's call the power of free market. People pay what they feel is important. People sell that stuff for what people are willing to pay. I guess you can offer whatever you want for hardware. That is your right. If you want to be a cheapskate, that is your right too. If you put your stuff out in a public forum, it is also someone elses right to tell you off.

As for "trolling", it's usually reserved for inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic type of  statements that are usually aimed at pissing people off IE: Yahoo's now disabled News Discussions. It's doesn't really work unless you are weak and take the 'bait'.  Trust  me if you want to see trolling, I could show you REAL trolling.

I guess I'm one of those GREEDY ebayers. God forbid I want to make a little money to actually live. Charity is sweet, but it doesn't help you eat. Sorry but I live in the world of reality sometimes. The world revolves around money. To get power you need money. Very few people listen to a poor man. True I might not have liked selling some stuff to Boogiegail of all people, but at least I eventually got my money to be able to get food to eat.

Sure it's nice to get deals. I respect that. If you want to be a skinflin be that way. But I also respect peoples right to make money, no matter how "dirty" it might be to some people. I also respect peoples decision to by what ever the hell they want.  

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 14, 2007, 04:26:53 AM
Quote

God forbid I want to make a little money to actually live.

Then get a job

Quote

Charity is sweet, but it doesn't help you eat.


That's not always the case. What about soup kitchens? :)

eBay gouges you the seller ever more. You pay them to list the ad, you pay them based on how much it sells for, and you pay them if you use their PayPal service. Now they tell you what you can and can't sell. I know a guy who tried to sell a legit copy of Solaris and eBay removed his ad stating it was illegal, even though it was stated as being a legit copy.

eBay is no measuring stick by which to gauge an item's worth.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 14, 2007, 04:33:14 AM
Quote

huronking wrote:
Ok, so anyone have a piss-yellow A1200 for sale?

 :-D  :-D  :-D


Ask Doomy. He'll only charge you $1200 because the yellow edition 1200 is rare.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 14, 2007, 04:53:04 AM
if 'Doomy' comes through clean on the A500 i just grabbed for $30, i'll consider him a-ok. he'd better include the PSU like he stated as well. hopefully it's not 'stolen'. :-( looks like his feedback rating is hurting his sales, nobody else even bid on the thing. poor guy...

also, 'geekygeorge' is *not* 'retrogeek'.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: kd7ota on March 14, 2007, 06:21:59 AM
About the argument of an emulator vs the real thing...

He is right.  :-D

It's convenient to just load up an emulator and play away, but it definately takes away from the true experience...  I recently took out my commodore 64 and been sorting files on the disks like crazy via the XM1541 cable on my pc.  Im planning on getting it setup so I can play once again the good old c64 games.

Emulator is the same thing, but it just isnt the same. :-)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 09:37:19 AM
Quote

jbuonacc wrote:

?? not sure i understand this one... a stock Falcon030 is worth a good bit more than a comparable(?) A1200, and a nice ST setup will get more than an A500. they're not exactly spec'd alike, but as for comparing competing models...


jbuonacc, I was talking about general prices, not specific comparisons. In general most Atari items (in my experience) are cheaper than Amiga items.

Quote

jbuonacc wrote:
and of course everyone knows that Atari's product design and quality control were always leagues beyond that of Commodore/Amiga. ;-)


I can't profess any true expertise in Ataris, so I'll take your word here, although this is the first time I hear of this quality issue. Personally I've never really had major problems with the Amiga build quality, but it certainly wasn't top notch.

BTW, good catch on the A1200 with the split (or so it looks) bottom. I'd guess a screw or something, as I've had similar problems with A500's and screw "sockets" going bad...


As for Doomy and the A500... I don't know if you've read through forums, it seems you're new here, but I don't think he's what you call "a poor guy". And it seems like you're playing with fire... so don't come crying back if you get stung (as many, MANY, people have in the past; here, check this out: http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=retrogeek001&Dirn=Received+by)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 09:46:06 AM
@gdanko:

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

That was the BEST Doomy joke so far :-D


As for eBay and gripes, it's not different than any other (capitalistic) business. Money is their bottom line. Investors are their bosses, and they're greedy by default. So the company, or corporation more correctly, will always push to increase margins. Of course those increase only by our explotation. I don't like it either, "but I understand", as Chris Rock would have said. Perhaps I'm still too naive about it..

I had no idea about eBay limiting sales (like the Solaris incident you mentioned). I hope it's not wide-spread; I surely wouldn't like that happening to me or anyone else either!
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 09:51:42 AM
@kd7ota:

Exactly what I was trying to say :-) And I also got the same feeling when hooking up an old Amiga after some time... It's the exact same feeling.

But like I said: "all with measure". Having the best of both worlds is the way to go.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 14, 2007, 11:24:02 AM
@ da9000 - right, i guess it depends what products you're looking at.

as for general quality, it's like comparing a Toyota to a Chevy (or something like that). certainly nothing 'wrong' with Commodore/Amiga really, but an Atari is built like a tank comparatively. even the 65/130xe series and accessories. anything before that, not so well designed. an A500/A1200 could probably be broken over your knee, an ST/Falcon030 could kill somebody. i'm a fan of both, though Atari isn't so appealing any more after 'discovering' Amiga.

as for 'RetroGeek' - we'll see. he says it's in fine condition and works perfectly, i guess i'll find out. with my luck though, it'll be a PAL unit. yeah, he's a weird dude. spent some time reading through his website one night, what a laugh! he's quite into himself - and where *does* he get these prices? for as much as he slags the A1200, i wonder if he'll give me his. :-D
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: justthatgood on March 14, 2007, 11:32:07 AM
@gdanko

I'm going to try to be nice about this, so I'm going to just say this. Not every state in the country has the same job market. As I can see you live in Sunny California. I don't personally know the job there so I can't comment on it.

But I do know the job market here. Before you even get around to saying something cliche like "if there are no jobs, then move", many people have legitimate reasons they have to stay in the place they are.

Lets see. We have very high state taxes, 6% sales tax (not really that bad). Most of our government officials don't know how to spend money so you get screwed out of taxes to pay for many of their mistakes. You really can't own a house with more value then $75,000 (cheap bungalow style) or in some counties you might get screwed by property taxes.

As for the jobs. A majority of them in the city are crappy retail jobs (if you are very lucky you might get paid $7.00 and hour) with no opportunity for making overtime. The average that can get a job will make about $6.15 an hour and will only be allowed to work about 28 hours a week. Most have to try to scramble to get a second job to make up (average about $400) rent. Most of the other jobs will not work around your other jobs schedule so you will be looking for a longer time.

Most of the "high-tech" or fast paced careers left most the area because they weren't able to keep good executives happy and occupied while there here. Get get anything over $8.00, you will have to try your luck at getting a factory job traveling at least 56 miles a day. Most of those jobs are taking by people that have seniority of at least 10 years, and they aren't going to give up their 'easy money' without a fight.

Frankly most places could careless if you get paid much, or if you have a place to live, because they would just tell you to try to get welfare and section 8 housing. For you information, I have a job. One that I work too damn hard at, for so little pay. So eBay isn't perfect. Hell, I wish I would have had the idea for eBay back in the day, maybe I would have been rich.

You can't even compare San Diego with most parts of Indiana. It's like comparing apples with cantaloupe. Two totally different job markets. Two totally different cultures. Two totally different economies.

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 11:50:42 AM
@jbuonacc:

Heh, I've broken many a hardware over my knee, and I know an A500/A1200 is do-able, but would hurt a lot. Now as for the Atari, I have to admit: from the looks of the ST/STE, it's going to be hurting twice or more :-D  They do look rather sturdy. Haven't had contact with them since the last millenium, so I can't recall many details :-/

As for 'RetroGeek', I wish you good luck (also keep in mind he might be 'monitoring' these forums and acting accordingly; just had to throw the conspiracy theory in there :-D )
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 11:56:06 AM
@justthatgood:

I'm trully saddened to hear the decay our country and population is facing, in the hands of incompetent morons (government, and this includes both Republicans and Democrats), and I do wish you, a fellow Amigan, the best in this new year. At the same time, because you touched some important subjects, I just wanted to give out some info, that I'm aware of, which is shocking (to non-Californians), granted that it's mostly Bay area specific:

* Tax around here is 8.25%
* Many many people drive or commute 20-30 miles each way, minimum
* Gas is now $3.25 - $3.50
* "Average" rent per month is between $1200 - $1600 for 1 bedroom, maybe 2
* Owning a house means you havta put down at least $600,000

This place is freagging INSANE! Weather is the bomb (usually) :-)

That's all. Now time to cry :-(
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: justthatgood on March 14, 2007, 12:06:37 PM
I know that the Atari XEGS would hurt people badly (yeah I know it's the product of a Jack T. failure.)

Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: koaftder on March 14, 2007, 12:20:42 PM
Quote

Chubbyrain wrote:
I wish I had a basement. I'd keep the wife in it and the Amiga upstairs in the warm.


Dang!
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: justthatgood on March 14, 2007, 12:28:00 PM
It's that way because of the supply and demand. So many people came there to have the glitzy Silicon Valley jobs during the Internet Boom it blew up the real estate market.

Well our taxes are going to get there I'm sure. We our state, counties, cities collect our taxes and we usually don't get much out of them.

As for the mileage, what I said was what i had to drive. I was lucky (until I lost the job), some people actually get up at 12am to drive to Indianapolis (126 miles on e way!!!) to be able to make a decent wage.

As for the gas, it hasn't gotten much out of control, but there is a lot of price gouging going on around here. It hurts especially since most of the jobs you need to get to you have to drive to. As for our public transportation , it's not really as flexible as in most metro areas. I guess I can't complain because there is more then 80% of the state that don't even have public transportation.

As for the real estate prices, it's all about what you get with it. Very few people want to come to a state where all they will see is hicks driving pickup trucks and corn. Seriously, what is there to see in the state? The educational system sucks. It's basically run like some {bleep}ized closed society church in a way. It's been a Right To Work state and then it hasn't. It can't make up it's mind. Basically it crap at times.

Then there is the weather. It can be 60 degrees and sunny one day, then 40 degrees with rain for 4 days. It's that damn Humid continental climate we have.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on March 14, 2007, 01:38:41 PM
Really I agree with everyone here (RARE RARE LOL)
Ebay is not 100% by itself the answer.  But you can develop "pricing trends" - say every week amiga 2000 sells for 50-75$ (barebone almost) you're not going to price it at $125 then.
Amiga 4000 sells for $300-350 - then you cannot price it for $500 and expect to sell it (ebay or outside ebay).
For those here that post funny offers that are way below anything you see outside ebay or on ebay - well you are the cheapskates and you need a job.  
You need a job to buy amiga stuff.  Its a hobby and if you cannot afford it or want to pay same money as for C64, then you (not anyone here) needs to find a different hobby.

On Ebay: the biggest {bleep} is that Seller Protection Policy with paypal (it's nonexistent).  So sellers get screwed.  Buyers want paypal b/c its offering credit payments and buyer protection (questionable too).  Who wins?  Ebay.  Who loses - sellers.  Which is why so few people want to take paypal.  Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Listing fees + Final value fees + paypal fees = this can add up to quite a bit fast...  Ebay is the gauging company.  (you'd think that acquiring paypal would lower paypal's fees).  Ebay also allows illegal copies - even after you contact them these copies are still sold.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 14, 2007, 01:48:35 PM
Quote

da9000 wrote:
@jbuonacc:

As for 'RetroGeek', I wish you good luck (also keep in mind he might be 'monitoring' these forums and acting accordingly; just had to throw the conspiracy theory in there :-D )


well, i wouldn't be surprised. not sure all that's happened in the past, but i'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt. dealt with him a few weeks ago and everything went great. i guess we're all probably a bit eccentric really, but i got a kick out of a lot of the stuff on his site. some nice 'Amiga Tips' as well.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 14, 2007, 02:11:37 PM
Quote

Personally I've never really had major problems with the Amiga build quality, but it certainly wasn't top notch.


Case in point is the A600 they use those cheap plastic tabs on the case instead of more screws. While the case can be taken apart without breakage you need to have the hands of a surgeon!
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 14, 2007, 02:15:24 PM
Quote

terminator4 wrote:
Really I agree with everyone here (RARE RARE LOL)
Ebay is not 100% by itself the answer.  But you can develop "pricing trends" - say every week amiga 2000 sells for 50-75$ (barebone almost) you're not going to price it at $125 then.
Amiga 4000 sells for $300-350 - then you cannot price it for $500 and expect to sell it (ebay or outside ebay).

But some local guy sees an extraordinarily clean A4000 go for $800 on eBay. In the meantime he has some yellowed hunk of junk but doesn't perceive there is a difference because it still boots up and works. He wants to gouge you for 700-800 for a local transaction because of unrealistic eFraud pricing.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: gdanko on March 14, 2007, 02:22:59 PM
Quote

As for Doomy and the A500... I don't know if you've read through forums, it seems you're new here, but I don't think he's what you call "a poor guy". And it seems like you're playing with fire... so don't come crying back if you get stung (as many, MANY, people have in the past; here, check this out: http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=retrogeek001&Dirn=Received+by)


One thing I find particularly amusing and interesting about Doomy is his "he only did it in retaliation" excuse. He seems to have used this one for just about all of his negatives.

Plus, he swears everyone else is vulgar. I cannot imagine all of the vulgar and lazy non-paying eBay users are coincidentally enthusiasts who respond to his auctions.

Does he really believe anyone is going to buy his defense that he was always the victim who was attacked first? Especially with the reputation he has created for himself it will be extremely difficult to garner any credibility.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: Chubbyrain on March 14, 2007, 03:48:20 PM
Wow, this thread has more legs than a centipede.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


terminator4 wrote:
... an amiga 1200 can be worth as much $400, with network card, rom 3.1/os 3.1 and 16mb and 68030 board. but definitely more than $150.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150098912316


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This goes to prove my point basically and defeat your argument. $400 for an accelerated/expanded NTSC A1200 makes my opening offer of $150 for a basic one seem reasonable.

I still think the above auction is little high since once you get over $400, you are firmly in the A4000 price range. But for someone desperate to get the 'end product' quickly, I wouldn't blame them entirely for throwing down that much.

I'm no jobless cheapskate. I'm just being realistic. I think people are confusing their love of Amiga with it's actual financial worth in 2007. I don't see the sense in paying premium price for rendundant technology and I won't. Would you pay $1000 for a 20 year old television? I think not. You'd go buy the latest one for that as you'd get more for your money.

I got a CD32 for a nice price and I know I will get an A1200 as well. I'm patient enough to hold out for one.

Ebay is a free market and people can charge what they like for hardware (Even Dragonlady and her $699 A1200) but that doesn't mean the buyer has to agree. At the end of the day, something is only worth as much as someone will pay for it. If you get someone with more money than sense then good for you. But don't expect that to be the norm. It's a buyers market.

Rembember, the average person in the street would just laugh at your Amiga computer and what you think it's worth. They can by their XYZ brand PC that'll do more for the same money. You can argue all you want about how much better than the PC the Amiga is, but a modern PC destroys a 1993 Amiga in every application you could put it to.

The only people really interested in buying your Amiga are those within the Amiga community. Do you really want to rip them off?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: KThunder on March 14, 2007, 08:07:09 PM
ebay has kept more amigas alive and in circulation than any other site or store.

think about it if you had an amiga that you wanted to get rid of and you knew you would only get 20 bucks for it on ebay would you go though the hastle or just junk it.

totally different story if you can get 150 or more for it.

there probably isnt a truelly perfect auction setup online but the millions of ebay transations completed successfully says something for it.

amigas are not now and never have been a cheap hobby. you want cheap entertainment: get a pc
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on March 14, 2007, 08:25:54 PM
> This goes to prove my point basically and defeat your argument. $400 for an accelerated/expanded NTSC A1200 makes my opening offer of $150 for a basic one seem reasonable.


Well i wasn't thinking of a stock 68020 but of a 68030 machine... posting online is not always conveying the right things - im sure that most of us sitting physically in one room would one way or another agree on things.  Thats the beauty of being an amiga user.

> I still think the above auction is little high since once you get over $400, you are firmly in the A4000 price range.

yeah to A4000, which is a better deal overall.

> But for someone desperate to get the 'end product' quickly, I wouldn't blame them entirely for throwing down that much.

sad but true.

> premium price for rendundant technology and I won't. Would

I'm not so sure its redundant.  With the right software its as good as any computer :-D
You're not cheap, I guess the $150 for a Stock 1200 is not a bad offer...

> Ebay is a free market and people can charge what they like

which can be a variable / factor in pricing ones own items outside of ebay.  if people pay/buy then its accurate.  

> something is only worth as much as someone will pay for
Rembember, the average person in the street would just laugh at your Amiga computer and what you think it's worth. They

sad but true.  most users only know of micro$oft and windows.

> The only people really interested in buying your Amiga are those within the Amiga community. Do you really want to rip them off?

I'll say no to ripoff, but it has to be worth my time to deal with them.  If its not worth my time, then sorry I'd rather let things rust in some dark corner.  Reality.

Your $150 offer for a 68020 A1200 is fair, even if new, but I doubt you will find it this offered for so little.  you can get accel board like 030 for $90 or so.  then its $250.  
So for basic model its ok to offer $150US I guess.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on March 14, 2007, 08:27:56 PM
Quote

there probably isnt a truelly perfect auction setup online but the millions of ebay transations completed successfully says something for it.

amigas are not now and never have been a cheap hobby. you want cheap entertainment: get a pc


Agreed.  And I'll add that Ebay has been first one on block, so while not the best, it has similar to micro$oft monopolized the market on online auctions.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 09:56:25 PM
Quote

terminator4 wrote:
On Ebay: the biggest {bleep} is that Seller Protection Policy with paypal (it's nonexistent).  So sellers get screwed.  Buyers want paypal b/c its offering credit payments and buyer protection (questionable too).  Who wins?  Ebay.  Who loses - sellers.  Which is why so few people want to take paypal.  


Can you explain that bit some more? If the seller has proof of delivery etc, what's the problem? You mean eBay sides with the  buyers most of the time?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 09:58:05 PM
Quote

gdanko wrote:
Case in point is the A600 they use those cheap plastic tabs on the case instead of more screws. While the case can be taken apart without breakage you need to have the hands of a surgeon!


I must have the hands of surgeon then! Never broken an A600 :-D

But I agree, screws and better plastics would have been much much better construction-wise.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 10:01:11 PM
Quote

gdanko wrote:
But some local guy sees an extraordinarily clean A4000 go for $800 on eBay. In the meantime he has some yellowed hunk of junk but doesn't perceive there is a difference because it still boots up and works. He wants to gouge you for 700-800 for a local transaction because of unrealistic eFraud pricing.


True, but those are rare! I mean, come-on, how many A4000 deals start at $800 ??? I've only seen a couple over the past few months. Most start at the usual $0.99, because they know the market will decide where it's at.

And anyhow, the way to stop that is not by blasting eBay, but 1) no bidding on such items 2) notify the seller that he's on crack (and possibly try to sell him some more? :-D ) and 3) make other people aware of this stupidity (here or other forums, so that anyone reading will feel pressured "by society" that bidding on such high price items will cause other similar items to possibly have such ridiculous starting prices as well
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 10:04:46 PM
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gdanko wrote:
Plus, he swears everyone else is vulgar. I cannot imagine all of the vulgar and lazy non-paying eBay users are coincidentally enthusiasts who respond to his auctions.


gdanko, I think it's all the buyers that are calling him a vulgar mouth thief, not the other way around.

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gdanko wrote:
One thing I find particularly amusing and interesting about Doomy is his "he only did it in retaliation" excuse. He seems to have used this one for just about all of his negatives.
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Does he really believe anyone is going to buy his defense that he was always the victim who was attacked first? Especially with the reputation he has created for himself it will be extremely difficult to garner any credibility.


I think that's what qualifies him as a whacko! :-D
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 10:20:20 PM
Quote

Chubbyrain wrote:
I'm no jobless cheapskate. I'm just being realistic. I think people are confusing their love of Amiga with it's actual financial worth in 2007. I don't see the sense in paying premium price for rendundant technology and I won't. Would you pay $1000 for a 20 year old television? I think not. You'd go buy the latest one for that as you'd get more for your money.


I think people (you) are confusing their Amiga for some cheapskate TV. Believe what you want, but not all items that are old are worth the same value after a certain amount of time. It's ludicrous to compare a 20 year old television with an Amiga. Not only were the QUANTITIES of production different when those items were made, so right away the comparison can't be made one to one, but we're talking about totally different products with different utility and obvious different "fan clubs". Would you say a shiny door stop (made of rock) that is 500 years old should have the same value as a 500 year old hand-crafted door knob which is still usable today ?


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Chubbyrain wrote:
Ebay is a free market and people can charge what they like for hardware (Even Dragonlady and her $699 A1200) but that doesn't mean the buyer has to agree. At the end of the day, something is only worth as much as someone will pay for it.


That's why prices are the way they are: because people are willing to pay for them, because to them an Amiga is worth that much. It's special. Get it? That's why we're here, because we feel special with an Amiga. Don't like it? Go away, instead of making us look crazy. Wait, wait. You're here also! Aren't you? Then you must be crazy too!

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Chubbyrain wrote:
If you get someone with more money than sense then good for you. But don't expect that to be the norm. It's a buyers market.


Why do you assume to know people (buyers) which you've never met or have any clue about? What makes you so certain that they have more money than sense? And afterall, isn't that a tad-bit oxymoronic: people who have money are senseless, but then HOW did they ever make that money???? Without sense of value and worth of money, one can't easily make money unless 1) inherits tons of money (how often does that happen?) and 2) is a lucky S.O.B. and wins the lottery (even more rare)

People who have (made) lots of money have a lot of sensibility about money and the worth of money (not saying they're sensible overall, or not corrupt, etc)


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Chubbyrain wrote:
Rembember, the average person in the street would just laugh at your Amiga computer and what you think it's worth. They can by their XYZ brand PC that'll do more for the same money. You can argue all you want about how much better than the PC the Amiga is, but a modern PC destroys a 1993 Amiga in every application you could put it to.


Here you go again comparing irrelevant things. Surely a 2007 PC is faster in many ways than _any_ Amiga, but surely one can make the point that the VALUE of an Amiga, to them, is MUCH higher than any PC, because of the nostalgia void inside of them that gets instantly filled and gratified by beholding such an old decrepid piece of hardware.

Please, before you make any comparisons, think of the logic. An average person buying a modern PC (for whatever reason, talking on Skype lets say) would _NEVER_ consider a vintage machine. Conversely, one average user who buys an Amiga computer would _NEVER_ buy it to do "modern tasks" (talking on Skype, using Flash video and YouTube, etc). Now there's an exception: an above average user buying an Amiga for "modern tasks", in which case this person is already aware that rare things cost, and especially the fastest of those rare things.

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Chubbyrain wrote:
The only people really interested in buying your Amiga are those within the Amiga community. Do you really want to rip them off?


This is the only point you've made with merit. Do you (the seller) want the Amiga to proliferate even to the poorer classes of users, or not. That's a good philosophical question to ask oneself, as a seller, and I must say I'll have to think about this, so as to decide for myself what I should do when I sell Amiga items

Cheers
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: da9000 on March 14, 2007, 10:22:33 PM
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KThunder wrote:
ebay has kept more amigas alive and in circulation than any other site or store.

think about it if you had an amiga that you wanted to get rid of and you knew you would only get 20 bucks for it on ebay would you go though the hastle or just junk it.

totally different story if you can get 150 or more for it.



Excellent point!!!!


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KThunder wrote:
amigas are not now and never have been a cheap hobby. you want cheap entertainment: get a pc


Hehehe, I love it! "you want cheap entertainment: get a pc" :-D
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: terminator4 on March 16, 2007, 04:38:05 AM
Can you explain that bit some more? If the seller has proof of delivery etc, what's the problem? You mean eBay sides with the  buyers most of the time?[/quote]

Exactly that.  Ebay takes side of buyer more than seller.  I had a case where i had proof of shipping and all.  Ebay doesnt care, it offers protection policy enforced at the expense of sellers.  Lets face it also, very few of the amigas today are in mint and perfect condition.  If you look closely you will always find something wrong.  Ebay will still take side of buyer over seller, even if item is sold as is etc.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 16, 2007, 06:31:33 AM
true, it's not perfect but the benefits sometimes far outweigh the bad. even for stupid things - i just sold an old Beastie Boys/RUN-DMC tour shirt for $87 that i pulled out of a stack for $4 or so (then again, there's some wacko selling two of them for $279 each). for things like this, you can't go wrong. vintage computer stuff is a bit different, everyone wants a mint condition system working perfectly. in a perfect situation this can happen - i recently bought a C64 and 1541 (both boxed) for $65 that had literally never been used before.

if modification is possible, i just noticed a boxed A1200 in nice shape from the UK (PAL) for BIN ~$110 shipped to the US.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: JKD on March 16, 2007, 07:18:46 AM
Did the OP ever get his A1200?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: JKD on March 16, 2007, 08:18:04 PM
?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 16, 2007, 08:58:30 PM
no, i don't believe they did. still holding out, i think.

why, do you have one for sale?
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: JKD on March 16, 2007, 09:49:22 PM
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Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150

no, i don't believe they did. still holding out, i think.

why, do you have one for sale?


I have an A1200 kicking around doing nothing, but not 100% sure that it's what he needs. I PM'd him but no reply.
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: klesterjr on March 24, 2007, 04:17:23 AM
$150 1200 on eBay  (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:31&item=180099997192#ebayphotohosting)

(my auction)
Title: Re: Looking for a non-yellow working NTSC A1200, paying $150
Post by: jbuonacc on March 24, 2007, 04:26:45 AM
 :-o who's the fool who actually put a bid in on it? why bid when you know it'll end up higher than the BIN? should've set a reserve just to keep it available, by the time i went to buy i wasn't able to.