Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: bloodline on June 07, 2003, 07:50:48 PM

Title: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: bloodline on June 07, 2003, 07:50:48 PM
I remember some guy going on about it a while back...  :-)

Any news, info, designs, proto boards?

Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jumpship on June 07, 2003, 07:57:31 PM
well there website is here  (http://onlyamiga.kicks-ass.net/xgi-bin/inclink.xgi?list=linkdir&cat=Hardware&site=ColdFire)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: magnetic on June 07, 2003, 08:01:13 PM
No funding.. thats what happened..
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: bloodline on June 07, 2003, 08:04:29 PM
Quote

magnetic wrote:
No funding.. thats what happened..


I can't say, I'm surprised... but it did sounds liek a fun project...  :-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Framiga on June 07, 2003, 08:09:53 PM
Quote

No funding.. thats what happened.

The AmigaColfireProject is still running.
All the news at:
http://www.cdtv.org.uk/coldfire

Stay tuned :-)

Ciao
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Framiga on June 07, 2003, 08:13:22 PM
Quote

I can't say, I'm surprised... but it did sounds liek a fun project.

coud be "fun" for you but . . . exists :-D

Bye!
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: bloodline on June 07, 2003, 08:17:52 PM
Hmmm, yeah the website shows some really interesting stuff!

Shame the Coldfire is even further behind than the PPC do be of any real use.  :-(

I personally feel some other solutions being far more attractive... but that is another thread.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Targhan on June 07, 2003, 08:24:49 PM
We need to interview this good fellow!  I would LOVE to put one of those in one of my Amigas!  Wouldn't that just rock?!!?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: xeron on June 07, 2003, 08:52:13 PM
Quote

I personally feel some other solutions being far more attractive... but that is another thread.


Ahh.. but he's considering doing versions for the A2000, A500, CDTV etc. and for them, it really will be the fastest card available!

If they ever come out, my A1500 is going to get one for sure! :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kees on June 07, 2003, 10:24:01 PM
I'm sorry .. but IMO .. its a waste of time and money.

We need to take the Amiga platform forward ... and creating another 68k cpu wich is faster isn't the solution ....
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: xeron on June 07, 2003, 10:28:11 PM
What? Thats a really stupid attitude. I like classic Amigas; they are a great hobby machine. The coldfire accelerator isn't about "moving the platform forward", its about making a kick-ass Amiga classic.

Just because YOU don't want one doesn't make it "a waste of time and money". Its just cool. Actually its beyond cool... its awesome :-)

I'm also buying an AmigaONE, and maybe even a Shark for this A4000. But there isn't any harm in wanting my A2000 to be as fast as possible, is there?

Obviously, anybody out there making cool gadgets, or souping up their classic cars, should just stop being so silly, and wasting all that effort, because noMAAM doesn't want one...
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kees on June 07, 2003, 10:35:39 PM
Stupid attidude ? .. i'd like to call it realistic.

Ofcourse it would be cool to have kick ass classic .. but what good would it bring to this community ?


Quote
Obviously, anybody out there making cool gadgets, or souping up their classic cars, should just stop being so silly, and wasting all that effort, because noMAAM doesn't want one...


Aaawwww ... am i that bad ?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: xeron on June 07, 2003, 10:43:31 PM
Quote

Ofcourse it would be cool to have kick ass classic .. but what good would it bring to this community ?


So... nobody should do anything unless it "brings something to the community"? Doing something because its cool isn't enough?

A lot of things in this world are done "because its cool", you know! ;-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kees on June 07, 2003, 10:51:12 PM
Everybody should do what they like to do ...

I'm just giving my opinion here ... if you agree or not.

again .. IMO ... time and effort should be invested in taking the Amiga platform forward.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 07, 2003, 11:18:19 PM
Hi,

Quote
remember some guy going on about it a while back...  

That would be me  :-D

Quote
Any news

Yep, On monday I put an order in to get the next prototype printed (4 layer, high density thing) but still havent had a reply, I will e-mail them next monday and see if they lost my e-mail or something.

Quote
info

The current prototype is much better than the first, its got USB, Firewire, AC97 sound, IRDA (Fixed speed) and an SDRam interface that should work this time  ;-)

Quote
designs

Link to pic and info of current prototype (http://www.cdtv.org.uk/coldfire/1218.html)

This is a small mockup of the design I am getting printed right now as well as some info.

Quote
proto boards?

Arriving soon... hopefully.

Quote
No funding.. thats what happened..

Fuding is not a problem, I think this version was just a bit over complicated... fun to do mind.

Quote
Shame the Coldfire is even further behind than the PPC do be of any real use.  

It will wipe the floor with any current PPC upgrade available  :-)
As for the new era for Amiga, no its not, It could never be, its just an upgrade for current Amiga's to make them run faster, nothing more.

Quote
We need to interview this good fellow!

Hehe, sure, please feel free, my e-mail address is oliver@cdtv.org.uk

Quote
I'm sorry .. but IMO .. its a waste of time and money.

Well I waste time a lot, and money so why not waist them on the Amiga?  :-?

Quote
We need to take the Amiga platform forward

Great, but what about your A1200 and A4000? will you leave them to rot?

Quote
The coldfire accelerator isn't about "moving the platform forward", its about making a kick-ass Amiga classic.

totally with you, thats just what the project is about.

Anyway a new PCB is just around the corner, hopefully this one will work  :-)

Im happy to answer any questions, as it stands development continues.

Night all
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Framiga on June 07, 2003, 11:26:40 PM
Quote

We need to interview this good fellow! I would LOVE to put one of those in one of my Amigas! Wouldn't that just rock?!!?

Too late!

We had already done 6 months ago :-D :-D (on Bitplane magazine)

Seriously, Oliver "Hannaford" Day is a genius!

Follow him with the right consideration and think that he works on AmigaColdfireProject, only for 6 months per year.

A great opportunity for all Amiga Classic.

Ciao

Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: magnetic on June 08, 2003, 12:26:48 AM
Great to hear from you directly!
 Keep up the work! I have a few questions if you dont mind:

1. How do you intend to make the coldfire work with 68k programs/OS. What software?

2. The prototype you are having made.. will it show a Rom screen?

thanks
magnetic
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 08, 2003, 12:59:53 AM
Hi,

Quote
1. How do you intend to make the coldfire work with 68k programs/OS. What software?

As you may know the Coldfire is semi 68K compatiable, the (few) missing instructions will be emulated using software developed under contract from Motorola, This emulates everything needed to get 68K programs and OS working.
The software is loaded from a flash chip before the Amiga's kickstart is loaded.

Quote
2. The prototype you are having made.. will it show a Rom screen?

Are you talking about the Kickstarts Rom screen or a Coldfire menu? (Your probably talking about the Kickstart menu)

The kickstart menu would be visable and should work just fine on the prototype but it would be something for me to check.

As for a Coldfire menu, the prototype will have no menu's at all, if a final version would, I dont know, it would be nice to switch between emulated CPU's but I will see.... (Im using a 512kb flash chip on the prototype so I can play with such things)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Stew on June 08, 2003, 02:03:12 AM
  Any idea as to when it will be finished?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jeffimix on June 08, 2003, 02:33:53 AM
Heh, would be nice for my 2000 (probably couldn't afford it but hey, maybe if I save up real long) noMAAM, in one light, I think you're right, everything that can help the platform move forward should be done. But, what exactly could I do for, say, OS4, or MOS. oh well.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: MarkTime on June 08, 2003, 03:33:03 AM
WOW, neat project, that's for sure.
I would think I would prefer a new PPC motherboard...

but this is quite tempting, nevertheless....hope
to see it on the market!
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 08, 2003, 10:16:49 AM
Hi,

Quote
Any idea as to when it will be finished?

Well it shouldnt have been to far off but the last prototype was totally useless which slowed the project up a lot, I am now aiming for the A4K version to be done by December, but thats assuming this prototype does something.  ;-)

(After that it would be the A1200 version and then the A2000 version with the others following in no particular order)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: kzin on June 08, 2003, 10:48:12 AM
have you done any market research?

how will you sell them?

Are you doing the USB drivers yourself?

Who will assemble the cards? Id like to recommend where I work :)

http://www.dynamic-controls.co.nz/manufacturing-services/default.asp

Are you doing every thing yourself? do you need investors?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 08, 2003, 12:39:27 PM
Hi,

Quote
have you done any market research?

Well when the project started a news group was set up so anyone who was interested could join, We now have almost 250 people subscribed.
The group has polls to see what people want on the card, for what Amiga, what they would pay for it and such like.
So yes, Sorta.

Quote
how will you sell them?

Bit early to say, had a couple of people interested in selling them, I would also sell them myself, basically anyone who wanted to sell them would be welcome.
Bit early to talk about that sorta thing yet though.

Quote
Are you doing the USB drivers yourself?

Again, to early to say, I would like to use Poseidon but would create the chip driver myself.

Quote
Who will assemble the cards? Id like to recommend where I work :)

Hehe, well again its to early to say, I looked at the local (UK) PCB companies for this prototype so I could find someone to use for the final card. (Although the one I ended up with doesnt assemble the PCB's, they just print them so a 3rd party assembler may be used.)

Quote
Are you doing every thing yourself?

I'm doing the PCB design and software myself. (Although thankfully the software side is just piecing together the examples, filling in the blanks and porting 68K datatypes and stuff.)
I had someone convert some PAL source to VHDL (Xilinx) for me although I havent used it yet.  :-(

Quote
do you need investors?

Nope, I have everything needed to finish development and (hopefully) pre-ordered would cover most of the first batch. (start small)

Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: odin on June 08, 2003, 12:45:27 PM
It's prolly waaaaaaaaaay to early to ask this, but I'm going to anyway :-).

Any idea of the price range these cards will fall in? I could imagine the price being higher than the current PPC cards. But then again, I'm under the impression that you're doing this not really for profit? (Not that I don't want you to have profit or anything :-D).
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Framiga on June 08, 2003, 01:43:15 PM
Quote

by MarkTime on 2003/6/8 4:33:03

WOW, neat project, that's for sure.
I would think I would prefer a new PPC motherboard...

another one?

AOne and Pegasos aren't enough?

Ciao
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Framiga on June 08, 2003, 01:48:45 PM
Quote

by odin on 2003/6/8 13:45:27

It's prolly waaaaaaaaaay to early to ask this, but I'm going to anyway.

Any idea of the price range these cards will fall in? I could imagine the price being higher than the current PPC cards.


Wrong ;-)

estimated final prices: from £160 to £240

Ciao!
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 08, 2003, 01:57:25 PM
Hi,

Quote
Any idea of the price range these cards will fall in?

I am aiming at £170 for a basic A4000 version (USB, IDE, SDRam and 220Mhz Coldfire) however it depends on lots of things so it could go much higer, specially as a lot of people want Ethernet (10/100) as that isnt cheap.

Quote
I could imagine the price being higher than the current PPC cards.

Well its only got one CPU for starts which helps a lot in keeping the price down, plus the Coldfire chip is a cheap CPU, its just that the market has more competiton now which may effect the price (less units = higher cost)

Quote
I'm under the impression that you're doing this not really for profit?

I dont care if its profitable or not, I dont want to loose a lot either though, as long as I get enough money to develope the next card that fine by me...

It isnt my job so I am not dependant on it making anything.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: magnetic on June 08, 2003, 03:29:21 PM
THanks for responding to my questions. That is good news. I went to your site.. looks great and is clean and professional. Your project is exciting. I think a big market for you is Video Toaster people because that is something you cant run on an A1 or Peg!
magnetic
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: redrumloa on June 08, 2003, 03:45:35 PM
@nOMAAM

I've got to disagree with you. This coldfire board if it ever materialises would be the bees knees:-) I've got a brand new Amiga 500 here I would drop one in:-D

Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kees on June 08, 2003, 03:48:14 PM
@ red

I don't believe you have an Amiga500 .. hehehe  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: on June 08, 2003, 05:09:05 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
@nOMAAM

I've got to disagree with you. This coldfire board if it ever materialises would be the bees knees:-) I've got a brand new Amiga 500 here I would drop one in:-D



Me just bought an  A500-Plus, so i'd buy one too.

Anyone know if 3.1 ROMS are available/usable in one of these?  If not, which is the latest version to work in one?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: redrumloa on June 08, 2003, 05:25:21 PM
Yes 3.1 roms are available and work.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: on June 08, 2003, 05:58:18 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Yes 3.1 roms are available and work.


So 3.1 roms plus a coldfire 220 would make the a500+ a very nice machine indeed.  What about IDE support? Is it possible?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: redrumloa on June 08, 2003, 06:13:25 PM
Quote
What about IDE support? Is it possible?


There are some crappy aftermarket IDE adapters available, and there are some homebrew hacks on Aminet. A SCSI adapter would be preferable.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: on June 08, 2003, 06:41:53 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Quote
What about IDE support? Is it possible?


There are some crappy aftermarket IDE adapters available, and there are some homebrew hacks on Aminet. A SCSI adapter would be preferable.


Of which, your personal reccomendation would be?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: redrumloa on June 08, 2003, 07:18:12 PM
There are things to consider. If you don't mind ugliness a sling shot with A2091 would work pretty well. A bogoda bay with A2091 would look a little better. If you don't plan on adding a gfx card(which would be a major hack anyhow), a GVP A500HD would work well.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Darth_X on June 08, 2003, 08:20:44 PM
Quote
I am aiming at £170 for a basic A4000 version (USB, IDE, SDRam and 220Mhz Coldfire) however it depends on lots of things so it could go much higher, specially as a lot of people want Ethernet (10/100) as that isnt cheap.  


So how much more would it cost to do a whole motherboard? :-D

By the way, I was thinking about putting a pegasos into a cdtv case, any thoughts here?


Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Darth_X on June 08, 2003, 08:24:15 PM
Quote

I've got to disagree with you. This coldfire board if it ever materialises would be the bees knees:-) I've got a brand new Amiga 500 here I would drop one in:-D


only one? :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Karlos on June 08, 2003, 08:26:06 PM
Two questions...

1) What's the fastest coldfire cpu available that would be feasable in an accelerator

2) What sort of missing instruction emulation will be used? Hopefully something like oxypatcher / cyberpatcher...

I think it's a cool idea. I might have to pick up a 2nd hand a1200 just to kit out with one :-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 08, 2003, 09:52:53 PM
Hi,

Quote
So how much more would it cost to do a whole motherboard?


Hehe, to much  :-)
Anyway apart from the Amiga 4000 being an old system its the best design for the Coldfire CPU.

Quote
I was thinking about putting a pegasos into a cdtv case, any thoughts here?

Naaa, Put it in a microwave, that looks much cooler.  ;-)

A set top box Pegasos would look like a nice machine though... but what about the PCI cards? right angle adapters maybe?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 08, 2003, 09:59:52 PM
Hi,

Quote
1) What's the fastest coldfire cpu available that would be feasable in an accelerator

Well I see no limit that I can see, although the Coldfire can run at up to 333Mhz it has a bus speed of only 50Mhz. (actually its selectable but thats what I am running the prototype on)

Quote
2) What sort of missing instruction emulation will be used? Hopefully something like oxypatcher / cyberpatcher...

Nope, its got to load before the Kickstart so you wont see it running at all.
Information can be found at http://www.microapl.co.uk/ (http://www.microapl.co.uk/)
 (They also do a 68K emulator for the PPC as well as programs to port 68K assembler to Coldfire native code.)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Karlos on June 08, 2003, 11:37:53 PM
Cool :-)

Anyhoo, I meant hopefully the emulation works like ocypatcher - ie patching instructions rather than trapping them every time :-)
 - my fault for being a bit ambiguous...

...well, I am a moron after all ;-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: porneL on June 09, 2003, 12:54:34 AM
Does this project make any sense anymore?

Now when amiga has migrated from 68k and legacy hardware coldfire doesnt seem to be attractive.

Its not as powerful as ppc and none of the new amigaos-flavor os-es will run on it.

I classify it as hardcore geek toy :)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Karlos on June 09, 2003, 03:42:31 AM
@porneL

Ok, look at it this way. OS3.9 will be around for some time after the launch of OS4. Kitting out older systems for which PPC is not an option with a CPU capable of 300MHz 68K operation with pre-OS4 isn't a bad idea :-)

Even if I could afford an A1XE, I'd still like one of these to play with :-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Bodie on June 09, 2003, 03:48:45 AM
Perfect for the A2000, especially considering it will have a PCI slot and so forth, making it relatively cheap to upgrade.

There may be life yet in the old bird :-) .
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jdiffend on June 09, 2003, 04:23:08 AM
The Coldfire is a good low cost alternative to a PowerPC but there are a lot of software incompatibilities that Oli has to deal with.  I don't think it's quite as simple as he expects it to be... but hey... what do I know?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: xeron on June 09, 2003, 09:44:11 AM
Quote

jdiffend wrote:
incompatibilities that Oli has to deal with.  I don't think it's quite as simple as he expects it to be... but hey... what do I know?


The situation is made easier by the fact that the emulation module will be loaded from flashrom before even kickstart is booted; and therefore will be invisible to the system. The fact that there are many tested solutions out there means that most of the hard work is already done for him.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Framiga on June 09, 2003, 09:58:30 AM
Quote

by porneL on 2003/6/9 1:54:34

Does this project make any sense anymore?

Now when amiga has migrated from 68k and legacy hardware coldfire doesnt seem to be attractive.

Its not as powerful as ppc and none of the new amigaos-flavor os-es will run on it.

I classify it as hardcore geek toy :)

i think that you have forgot to write: IMHO :-)

Ciao
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: BADHead on June 09, 2003, 10:31:24 AM

I classify it as hardcore geek toy

i will buying one for the A1200 if it ever happens
as my A1200 is still of some practical use
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kronos on June 09, 2003, 10:43:42 AM
@red/mdma

No need to buy a crappy 10 year old IDE-interface as there will be one on the accel (see Oli's post).

Yes I want ONE  :-D but not for the A4k (sorry, but that would NOT be cool ).

Either A500/1200 (in kbd-case), or even better in my old A2000 if Oli adds 1 PCI-slot and P96(or CGX) driver fo Voodoo3).
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: BADHead on June 09, 2003, 10:58:21 AM
or even a interface for bvision
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: bloodline on June 09, 2003, 11:01:09 AM
Wow!!! I didn;t realise I was going to start such a big thread!

/me Proud  :-D

Still looks really cool.... Sure makes me want to get one for my A1200... The sheer number of features make it worth it... AC97, USB, IDE... if all that can fit inside my A1200 Case I'll be a happy boy. It would certainly be more use than my BlizzPPC.
Did Oli say something about PCI? how about a Cheap integrated VGA on there aswell... damn!!! that would be one serious geek toy!!!

I would have to say though it would have to be some serious speed to make it worth my while... I've got my fingers crossed for 500Mhz...  :-D

PS. I would like to try one in an A600 too, but I can't afford two (if any!?!?!), maybe a one size fits all? :-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kronos on June 09, 2003, 11:03:33 AM
@BADHead

Now that would be a stupid idea.

Adding such a special PCI-connector would be just as hard (if not harder) than adding a normal PCI-slot, and would force
you down to one option, even one inferior option.

Even if it was just one PCI-slot, it would still allow for other drivers than Voodoo3 to be added.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Kronos on June 09, 2003, 11:08:24 AM
@bloodline

The A600 is the only Amiga, that doesn't have a slot which allowes CPU-cards. Those accels that do exist are slapped
ontop of the 68000, a far from perfect solution, and since the A600 is also the only one to use a SMD-68000 it would
need a special version.

An A500-version could fit into an CDTV or A2000, maybe even an A1000, but the A3k/4k would need another version, and
even one more for the A1200.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 09, 2003, 11:11:50 AM
Hi,

Quote
Anyhoo, I meant hopefully the emulation works like ocypatcher - ie patching instructions rather than trapping them every time

Opps  :-)
Answer: Traps, as I read it anyway.

A little bit from the emulators website:
"CF68KLib is a 680x0 emulation library which enables you to run 680x0 binaries either unmodified, or very slightly modified, on a ColdFire processor (Version 3 cores onwards). It achieves this by catching exceptions caused by unimplemented 680x0 instructions, performing the equivalent operation, and adjusting the stacked program counter to continue at the next instruction."

"the library takes over all ColdFire exceptions, and simulates a complete virtual 680x0 machine. As a result, your RTOS will behave as though it were running on a real 680x0 processor."
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: bloodline on June 09, 2003, 11:12:39 AM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@bloodline

The A600 is the only Amiga, that doesn't have a slot which allowes CPU-cards. Those accels that do exist are slapped
ontop of the 68000, a far from perfect solution, and since the A600 is also the only one to use a SMD-68000 it would
need a special version.

An A500-version could fit into an CDTV or A2000, maybe even an A1000, but the A3k/4k would need another version, and
even one more for the A1200.


Right yeah, fair play. Forget my A600 comments then. But I stand by my VGA idea, even a cheap Blade3D chip would be better than any Amiga gfx card. Though a GF2 MX would be better :-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 09, 2003, 11:13:56 AM
Hi,

Quote
Does this project make any sense anymore?

Yep,  Coldfire's are getting faster all the time so it will make sense for a long time to come too.  :-D

Quote
Now when amiga has migrated from 68k

It hasnt fully migrated yet, we are still using a 68K OS and loads of 68K programs.

Most new programs come in 68K and PPC versions, there are more 68K/Coldfire developers tools than PPC tools, There are more 68K games than PPC games, there are more people with 68K Amiga's than PPC Amiga's.

Quote
and legacy hardware coldfire doesnt seem to be attractive

 :-o  A few words... Prometheus, Vlab Motion, Toaster,  Emplant (well, I like it), IOBlix, Picasso IV.
Some great cards, With drivers!!!
Look at what drivers are available for PCI cards, you will have a basic system (a fast basic system mind) compared to lots of standard A4000's

Plus do you want to scrap  your Amiga as you move to the A1? Leave it to rot? Let a bunch of spiders take up residence (And I aint talking about USB cards here)

I love Zorro slots, clock ports and side expansion ports, give me more, I want more (I only have  Zorro slot free, I wonder if there is a 14 slot Zorro bus board?)
I like the idea you can just extend and extend the slots, 36 Zorro slots anyone?

Quote
Its not as powerful as ppc

Its more powerful than any PPC your going to have on an A3/4000 or A1200. (assuming the Shark isnt launched running OS4.0)
The built in SDRam interface will give a massive speed increase compared to the shared 72pin Sims on the PPC cards.

Quote
and none of the new amigaos-flavor os-es will run on it.

But they are ports of the 68K version, yes they have better icons and cleaner interfaces but these can be patched even on OS3.1 (Birdie, Newicons or OS3.5+)

It appears a fair bit of OS4.0 has been done on the 68K, maybe a port would be possible if enough Coldfire's sold (Although I dont think that will happen you never know)

Quote
I classify it as hardcore geek toy :)

Hehe, well Im just a hardcore geek.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 09, 2003, 11:30:10 AM
Hi,

Quote
Did Oli say something about PCI?

Yes but for 16 bit miggys only, The A2000 mainly.
The developers card I got (Motorola 5407C3) has PCI on it (And the designs on how its connected) and the chip is easy to get so it looks easy enough.
The A3/4K and 1200 versions wont have that option as they already have PCI board available and the PCI chip isnt small (Its the size of the Coldfire).

Quote
how about a Cheap integrated VGA on there aswell... damn!!! that would be one serious geek toy!!!

Hehe, sorry but nope.  :-(
although... if you port Aros to the Coldfire when its out maybe I could make a one off. ;-)

Quote
I've got my fingers crossed for 500Mhz...  

Well I will use the fastest available at the time but that looks like its going to be a 220Mhz V4.
V5 is planned and will be launched by the end of the year (Motorola says) but chances are I wont be able to get them for a long time.

Anyhow just sent an e-mail to the PCB company to give them the hurry up  :-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: BADHead on June 09, 2003, 11:31:25 AM
@Kronos
Bvision is not a stupid idea some of us want to retain
there Amigas (A1200) in there original case (or try too)

My A1200 stands a inch high with a flat panel on top
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: amimonkey on June 09, 2003, 12:15:55 PM
Me wants! Me wants! I'm aquiring an old A2000 for free, and one of these would REALLY REALLY make it rock :-)

This is a project in the TRUE Amiga tradition...

Ian
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: bloodline on June 09, 2003, 12:28:56 PM
Quote
although... if you port Aros to the Coldfire when its out maybe I could make a one off.


It's 68K compatible, right? then your wish wil be along soonish  :-o (we already have a 68K build of AROS,  for the Dragonball CPU)

Once at Port to the Amiga has been done, it shouldn't take more than an adjustment of the Compiler settings to get it output Coldfire happy code.  :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: N7VQM on June 09, 2003, 02:33:23 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Once at Port to the Amiga has been done, it shouldn't take more than an adjustment of the Compiler settings to get it output Coldfire happy code.  :-D


I bet that would be blindingly fast. Not that 68K code won't be!

I'd be interested in a card with a VGA chip on it.  I even wouldn't mind if VGA memory had to to shared with main memory.   :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: amigamad on June 09, 2003, 03:09:24 PM
I will buy one when you get them fininshed .
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jdiffend on June 09, 2003, 03:24:36 PM
There are some points I should make here (bad and good)...

BAD:
1. The emulation isn't 100%.  Some stuff will never run on it without being recompiled, rewritten or patched.
2. User mode emulation has between a 10% and 20% speed penalty... running the emulation on the OS will be worse since the 5407 doesn't have a supervisor stack pointer.
3. No FPU and current math libs probably won't be compatible thanks to differences in the MPY/DIV and other instructions.
4. Motorola has seemed reluctant or slow to publicly release any parts based on the V4e or V5 core.  (though someone at HP seemed to have access to a V4e part)
5. All that stuff Oli put on the board still needs drivers.
6. Has Oli even gotton the Amiga ROM to boot yet?

Good:
1. Future parts are supposed to have a supervisor stack pointer, FPU and MMU (though the FPU and MMU probably won't be compatible).
2. Future parts on Motorola's roadmap indicate speeds in the 800+Mhz range.
3. Future parts with multiple CPU cores.  If the exec supported multiple CPUs that would be a very quick machine.  Two 800Mhz cores wouldn't offer the peak performance of a 1.6Ghz CPU but could be faster at multiple tasks at the same time and multi-treaded apps.
4. Future parts that can be used (V4 core and above) will have built in USB and 10/100 interfaces... (hopefully on the same part).  Possibly other devices as well.
Personally I want High Speed USB 2.0, 10/100 and IDE.  They have already released parts with USB, 10/100 and/or IDE and with the way the Coldfire is designed they could easily be added to any Coldfire core.
5. If Oli gets the AmigaOS to boot, porting AROS would be pretty easy.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Dr_Righteous on June 09, 2003, 03:50:00 PM
AROS on an A4k with a ColdFusion upgrade.... Throw in native AGA support and suddenly you have the Amiga REPLACEMENT OS!  :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jdiffend on June 09, 2003, 06:17:28 PM
Once I get my Coldfire dev board (in a couple weeks) I'll see about porting AROS to it.  It's a V2 core though so some changes would be needed for a V4.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: heimert on June 10, 2003, 06:09:18 PM
@oli_hd
Apart from being a boat seller (according to your homepage), do you have any other qualifications necessary to run a project like this?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Prmetime on June 10, 2003, 10:14:04 PM
I can think of a couple of reasons this would be a good thing. Besides the fact that it would just be cool to take my A3000s along into the future with me instead of having them hopelessly outdated that is.  Granted the software probably won't be updated much but the existing software I do have would fly!
Yet I digress. :-)

The two reasons I was talking about.  AOS 4 is currently being developed on a 68k base.  For all of us fanatics that still have a "Classic" Amiga, they could release a version of AOS4 still in the 68k form and sell copies for those of us that want to keep the classic machines.  The other thing I would like to see is a replacement board for the A600.  Imagine a new MB with the same keyboard connector, a Coldifre as the processor, All USB (no legacy ports), and onboard video of some sort.  Even an integrated Intel or Sis chipset is more up to date than, not to mention an old Virge 3D like the one on the CV64 3D is better than the original chipset.  Plus you would have the coolest looking Amiga yet!   :-D   Hey, if you are going to dream, you may as well dream big!!!

Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: amimonkey on June 10, 2003, 10:44:33 PM
@heimert

Erm... who cares - as long as he can pull it off!?

:-)

Ian
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Revener on June 10, 2003, 10:54:16 PM
yeah!! I love it I want one for my A500, A1200 and A3000.


 :-)  ;-)  8-)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: heimert on June 10, 2003, 11:34:26 PM
@amimonkey
Quote
Erm... who cares - as long as he can pull it off!?


Noone I suppose, but I do think that knowing his qualifications will give me a pretty good indication on if this project ever will materialize or not. It would also be interesting to know if there are other developers involved.

I think the question should be: Can he pull it off?
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Oli_hd on June 11, 2003, 12:54:47 AM
Hi,

Quote
@oli_hd
Apart from being a boat seller (according to your homepage), do you have any other qualifications necessary to run a project like this?

Ermm, basically none, I have done a few basic designs (CDTV bits) but not actually built any of them.
But I have a lot of time, am willing to learn and money to burn  :-D

Quote
but I do think that knowing his qualifications will give me a pretty good indication on if this project ever will materialize or not.

Well one prototype has already be made, another one will be here soon. (Just had an e-mail back from the company so things are moving again)
As for actual qualifications, I dont have any, if I want a bit of paper to say Im smart I will print one myself.  :-D
(joke)
 
Quote
It would also be interesting to know if there are other developers involved.

Nope but Motorola have been a great help as they published designs showing how to hook everything up, including schematics to connect the V3 Coldfire in place of a 68020 CPU as well as PAL equations and a free support line (Which I have used once)

Quote
I think the question should be: Can he pull it off?

Yep, I have gone in to this in a real pro way, spent loads on software and the Motorola dev board, not to mention the cost of this 4 layer prototype, I could have bought the best A1 for what I have spend so far. :-(
(PS: that just shows that Im keen and not if I will pull it off but I will try my very very best.)
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Karlos on June 11, 2003, 01:02:17 AM
Oli_hd,

I think I speak for the majority when I say it doesn't matter diddly what qualifications you do/do not have. The fact you already have a prototype (working or not) is proof enough you can cut the mustard.

I sincerely wish you well and maybe your work will be a lease of life for all those systems left in the dark by the move to PPC.

I'd certianly be interesed in a coldfire a1200 to play with :-D
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jdiffend on June 11, 2003, 03:41:35 AM
There is a huge difference between a non-working prototype and a production board.  And he hasn't even demonstrated a 5407 can run the AmigaOS yet.

I won't say he can't do it.. but at this point he hasn't done it so we need to wait and see.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: heimert on June 11, 2003, 04:21:30 AM
@oli_hd
Ok. Thanks for the info. Just don't go off to the bank and put a mortgage on your house.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Opus on June 11, 2003, 05:30:44 AM
I love the idea, I hope he can pull it off so my A3000T can rock and roll!  you can count on me buying one
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: utri007 on June 11, 2003, 10:20:06 AM
Wondering how fast it will be????

I have apollo 040 40mhz, my quake benchmark 70% screen 1x1 is 9.0xx and with 060 50mhz with same size screen it's 10.xx

My point is, will it actually make any games or ect faster, because limits of aga and amiga MOBOs

I'm interested to buy just hoping new "classic amiga mobo", it wouldn't be perfect, another point is, how long my a1200 will work??? buy a new accellator,, amiga goes broke,,,, trying to found new amiga mobo,,, does it work with coldfire accellator,,,


There is huge differences between amiga mobos
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: xeron on June 11, 2003, 10:34:27 AM
Quote

utri007 wrote:
My point is, will it actually make any games or ect faster, because limits of aga and amiga MOBOs


Copying to chipram will still be slow, but Quake doesn't have to do any more C2P work than say, breathless, or Doom on the same size screen, so, provided the rendering buffer is in Fast RAM on the Coldfire card, I can't see why you can't get the frame rate up with a Coldfire card, even on AGA.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Atheist on June 11, 2003, 02:49:19 PM
Hi,

The FULL potential of the AGA Amigas has not been shown off yet. (I feel that way, anyway.)

I would like to know,

1) since it takes a couple of seconds for a HD to spin up, could a person load the OS into flashrom to boot up off of, is it big enough, could you put a second flashrom on there for this?

or

1a) Could I boot off of a Compact Flash card? The 25 speed ones?

2) Could you make the board support upto 3 gigs of ram? 6 of the cheaper 512 meg, ones?

I am VERY interested in one for my A2000. The price, for me, is affordable.

With this card and AOS (any version), it would be hilarious to see the faces of some windows users.

Especially if it was in an A1000!!!

AmigaOne! Old?!? Amigas are STILL amazing!!!
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: jdiffend on June 12, 2003, 02:57:19 AM
Quote
1) since it takes a couple of seconds for a HD to spin up, could a person load the OS into flashrom to boot up off of, is it big enough, could you put a second flashrom on there for this?


Not really practical... only put the drivers and Kickstart related stuff in the flashrom.  These devices have a limited life and you don't want to waste it tinkering with your startup sequence.  Once they burn out they would be difficult to replace.  And the more FLASH the more expensive the accellerator.


Quote
1a) Could I boot off of a Compact Flash card? The 25 speed ones?


With USB, some built in drivers (in FLASH) and an external card reader you could do that.
You need the drivers for USB and common USB devices in ROM so they don't have to be loaded.
Since the device is easily replaced if it gets worn out that is a much smarter option than using the flash on the accellerator board.  Speed is only limited by USB transfer speeds.  If you have support for High Speed USB 2.0 it will be more than fast enough.

BTW, RAM size is limited by the OS but I can't remember what the limit is... something about the exec using some bits for a special purpose limits actual size below the limit of the CPU.  There is also a limit to how much RAM the controller on the Coldfire supports.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: keltic on June 13, 2003, 01:42:12 PM
Atheist:
Quote
1a) Could I boot off of a Compact Flash card? The 25 speed ones?


Yeah sure see why not(quick google search):
http://www.jactron.co.uk/ad-ide-cf.htm
http://www.emjembedded.com/products/flash/chipdisk.html
http://www.acqu.com/usa/ifd-xxx.htm

I did see some of theese for sale a while back here in Norway but i cannot remember the price, but i'm sure that if they were cheap i would have bought one pronto.

I had an idea of booting Linux from ideflash with NFS over 1gbit ethernet, having most on the files on a remote server except for boot files(/boot, /etc and so on) for making a silent pc but i never got that far  :-(
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Terminills on June 13, 2003, 01:52:20 PM
Quote

Yeah sure see why not(quick google search):
http://www.jactron.co.uk/ad-ide-cf.htm
http://www.emjembedded.com/products/flash/chipdisk.html
http://www.acqu.com/usa/ifd-xxx.htm

I did see some of theese for sale a while back here in Norway but i cannot remember the price, but i'm sure that if they were cheap i would have bought one pronto.


I had an idea of booting Linux from ideflash with NFS over 1gbit ethernet, having most on the files on a remote server except for boot files(/boot, /etc and so on) for making a silent pc but i never got that far  [/quote]

I've seen the IDE CF adapters on ebay for about 25 USD  every now and then.
Title: Re: Whatever happend to the Coldfire project?
Post by: Quixote on June 13, 2003, 03:02:53 PM
;-) I'll definitely be buying one of these, when they are available.  Of course, I'll be buying Amiga OS 4.0 as soon as it's out for the CyberStorm, and the AmigaOne when OS 4's out for it, but in the meantime, I'm looking at my A2000 and A500 and asking myself what I'll do with them.  With a Coldfire processor in each of them, they'll be better able to contribute to my home network.