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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: AmigaHeretic on January 30, 2007, 07:26:36 AM
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Ok I work at one of those "Big Box" computer stores. We set up lots of new PC day in and day out. (HP's, Gateways, etc.)
Anyway, got a copy of Vista final to take home to play on. Installed it on my system. I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2gb of dual channel RAM, SATA HD, and an ATI 9200SE.
Install Windows, goes through pretty quick. Here I am at the new desktop. What to try first? IE - Yep can browse web pages. Nice.
Next, better try out Solitare, I know all the old ladies will be asking about that. First I get a message that my graphics card is not "powerful" enough to run solitare so they will have to reduce the graphics features!!
HA HA HA...
So it comes up and looks pretty much the same, but the cards move SOOOOOOOO slow. They don't even slide, you just click on them and then click where you want to put them and it takes forever.
I hate Windows! :-)
Everything else I've tested seems to work good so far though.
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Being a TechNet + subscriber I have had my hands on Vista (and Office) for a month or so (the retail version that is; not the beta's).
I must say it does run quite smoothly on my Core 2, 2GB ram, Ati X1900XT. Funny thing though: I have an internal card reader which does not seem to be recognised at all; no missing hardware in my devices list; but it simply does not work :)
And ofcourse; specially in the beginning lots of programs wouldn't work; think of Nero and McAfee etc....
But honestly; Vista looks very good; but what's new apart from the looks?
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I have it for almost 2 weeks now, and I don't like it. I have a Dell with 2 GhZ Dual Core, 2GB Ram, 512 MB Graphics, and it run's ok on that machine.... BUT.. SOoOooo many things are just directly stolen and copied from Mac OS X. And good old 06 software doesnt even run on Vista. The OS takes almost all the Power from the Computer, and that kills all other Applications that you want to start or they run crappy slow.
I tried to run it on my Intel Pentium 4 - 3 GhZ to and it was so slow... Oh boy... Not good at all..... Dont understand how Microsoft, can think its good, to make a OS that demands sooo much power from the computer *Badr*
But the looks of Vista is good. Just stolen from Mac *S*
Anyway... My PC's can keep Vista installed, cos I dont like
Linux *S* Linux is for Nerds and not the normal user *LOL*
Hmmm... Well the laptop will keep XP, cos there Vista wont
run... But I will only keep Windows on those, until either
Apple release Mac OS X for normal PC's, or until Amiga OS4
can run on them *G*
Tahoe wrote:
Being a TechNet + subscriber I have had my hands on Vista (and Office) for a month or so (the retail version that is; not the beta's).
Hmmmm Tahoe ... ?! It's quite easy to get the hands on for
everyone... And you know that *S*
Apple and Amiga Forever ... **S**
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there is no excuse to have a 64 x2 machine with 2GBram and have a 9200 vga... LOL!
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It sounds crap.
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moto
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vista is gonna set new standards, either you like it or not, like xp did, and 95/98 did before.
you cannot deny that whatever you say and it is history repeating again....
so yeah, features in soliter can be disabled if they made it use pixel shader 2 or 3, there is no support in an old 9200 card... like when 95 came, all pc users ditched old ISA cards and moved to PCI... so what? evolution.
and if you make a funny remark about windows being crap or {bleep}ty, well then, you either don't want to see facts as they are, or just sucking up because this is an amiga site and u have yet another chance to praise AOS/MacOS or whatever OS....
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Seriously guys, why don't you just spam some M$ forum with this discussion? No one with at least a little remains of brain in his skull gives a damn about Vista.
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Two word that describe how I feel about Vista:
"Not interested"
Thanks to Vista, I now have an excuse to completely go Mac. Let the sheep have their HP's and Dell's loaded with this tripe, I'll be one happy camper in Mac land :-)
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keropi wrote:
vista is gonna set new standards, either you like it or not, like xp did, and 95/98 did before.
The only new standards Vista sets are those of the sheer amount of hardware required to run it...
After all, Vista is basically XP with extra eye candy, which was basically Windows 2000 with extra eye candy, which itself was basically Windows NT with plug 'n' play and USB support.
Windows 95 set new standards - it had to really, to replace the extremely dire Windows 3.x series. 98 and the useless Me were just evolutions of the 95 base.
And NT set new standards as it was a 32-bit version of Windows built from the ground up. Subsequent releases of Windows as we now know it are still just evolutionary changes to Windows NT.
like when 95 came, all pc users ditched old ISA cards and moved to PCI... so what? evolution.
This change wasn't specifically because of Windows 95 though... Granted, Win95 made it easier to use such cards, but PCI existed before Win95, and ISA cards continued to be used well after its release.
if you make a funny remark about windows being crap or {bleep}ty, well then, you either don't want to see facts as they are
What you mean here is that you don't want other people to see things from a different point of view...
Honestly, other than a load of eye candy and a few extra bundled applications, what does Vista give people that they can't already do using Windows 2000 and/or XP?
- Ali
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Anyway, got a copy of Vista final to take home to play on. Installed it on my system. I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2gb of dual channel RAM, SATA HD, and an ATI 9200SE.
It requires at least a superduper GFX card with *sign, watch out, marketing strategy coming up* 256Mb. Can you believe it, you need at least 256Mb to run Solitare :crazy: you better play that Solitare Reko Amiga game on a standard 1200 ;)
I hate Windows!
... and I always will :)
I'm not even trying it on my AMD mobile 2500. And why should I? I just got grip on XP. Finally it's running smoothly (so far possible).
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Aquired a copy of Vista from work, came home and installed on my peecee (P4 3.4Ghz Nothwood HT, 2gig RAM, Radeon EAX1800XT) as others have said aside from the look theres not allot of difference, and strangely enough neither my in-built or USB card reader worked.
It will however run solataire quickly enough ;)
Virtually all my software has some sort of issue with it, so for the moment im back to XP.
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adz wrote:
Two word that describe how I feel about Vista:
"Not interested"
Thanks to Vista, I now have an excuse to completely go Mac. Let the sheep have their HP's and Dell's loaded with this tripe, I'll be one happy camper in Mac land :-)
I do soooooooooo agree with you *S*
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TheMud wrote:
adz wrote:
Two word that describe how I feel about Vista:
"Not interested"
Thanks to Vista, I now have an excuse to completely go Mac. Let the sheep have their HP's and Dell's loaded with this tripe, I'll be one happy camper in Mac land :-)
I do soooooooooo agree with you *S*
Me too. There is no reason to use Vista, when OS X is around. It just does everything a lot better. Apart from crash, run sluggish and get spyware/virus infested :-D
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get us a drm capable os and quick...
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I have only experienced one single crash on my iMac with OS X 10.4
And that was with MS Word *LOL*
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I switched to Mac back in September. In December I realized that I hadn't turned my PC on since the day after I installed my Mac so now my PC is in the basement.
I was running a beta version of Vista under Parallels on my Mac. I've always been an early adopter when it comes to Windows upgrades since it's my job to keep up with systems. I have never been so uninterested in a Microsoft upgrade. It just feels like pure bloat to me. Why does better security and a pretty interface have to translate into such a pig?
I migrated from Windows 2000 to XP without upgrading a single piece of hardware and everything worked. To go to Vista I would pretty much need a completely new PC. No thanks.
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There is no need for me to upgrade to Vista.... All I do is surf the web, some email, and messenger..
I don't think that requires a dual-core or 2gb of ram. :-)
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Wow that must be an old radeon, because aero 3d and the new solitare in Vista works great on my old AGP 8X Radeon 9550 on my media center PC that I use for recording TV shows.. You really should update your graphics card man. If it's a laptop I know it isn't possible but with that rocking dual core you could have such a better time. The 9200 wasn't designed to be a gaming card..
For those who are interested in why this game wont run (well if he installed the old XP solitaire.exe I am positive that would still run just like the old XP movie maker does..
For those interested the new games that are on the Vista Home and Ultimate release takes advantage of the new 3D support and shader technology in the latest graphics cards. So does windows movie maker for realtime rendering of transitions and effects which make editing and creating movies much much faster than say Premiere elements that requires the CPU for all it's rendering.
I have the vista business SKU installed on an AMD 64 HP laptop which has a GForce 4 card (no shader technology). It all runs (except the games and movie maker, until I migrated the xp versions over) and I don't get aero glass or flip 3d but it's still very useable and MALWARE and SPYWARE free..
Sure you might miss solitaire but for over a year Microsoft has warned you that the new 3d features (even those in the games) would require a DirectX 9 capable card.
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With Vista coming out and requiring intense hardware, this would be the perfect time for the Amiga to make a comeback. Put a new Amiga with a cd/dvd rom drive, USB, ethernet, OS4, and put it into a nice A500/1200 keyboard with the ability to hook it up to a TV or monitor, slap on an inexpensive price, and I think we may have something.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
The 9200 wasn't designed to be a gaming card..
A Radeon 9200 not powerful enough to run SOLITAIRE? :lol: :lol: Come on... not too long ago, this would have been one of those stupid M$ jokes people used to laugh about. Now it has become reality.
I have the vista business SKU installed on an AMD 64 HP laptop which has a GForce 4 card (no shader technology). It all runs (except the games and movie maker, until I migrated the xp versions over) and I don't get aero glass or flip 3d but it's still very useable and MALWARE and SPYWARE free..
How do you know, did you check the source code?
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AmigaHeretic,
So it comes up and looks pretty much the same, but the cards move SOOOOOOOO slow.
That sums up my Vista experience right there - S-L-O-W. I was required to do some unit testing on a Vista machine at work, a machine which is overall at least twice as powerful as the one I use for development. Somehow my three-year-old XP dev laptop, even when running with all the tools I use daily, blows the socks off of Vista desktops running just IE7. Hopefully they don't force us all to "upgrade" to Vista anytime in the near future or my work estimates are going to double.
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@ -BOBW- and all.....
Yup, same here... it's my job to keep up with M$. I too bought a Mac last year and am still learning the interface but love it (been a Windows user since version 1). I HAVE to learn Vista inside and out 'cause M$ is how I make a living - and extra money. (Although I DO have a REAL job in the tech/software/banking/marketing/IT industry)
Of course I love my Amigas due to simplicity and they just work. BTW guys and gals, if you are the "I just surf, play simple games, create a few docs" type, download UBUNTU 6.1 and write the ISO to a CD and boot from the CD. WOW! Everything already there. Feels kinda like Amiga OS and is beautiful. All the apps you ever need are already on the CD. Firefox runs instantly without configuring TCPIP stack.
Anywho, ya, Vista is based and poised on future M$ apps and internet interaction. I really like XP/Server 2003 (due to the SMB networking layer and AD - networking is a dream in XP Pro - and it would even run on a PII-400 nicely). But Vista offers nothing for an XP Guru. More security headaches and more $$$ to throw at to keep it safe. Grrr. I am just sick of Windows!!! And I'm NOT going to pay out the A$$ again to upgrade and buy MORE new desktop machines, MORE upgraded Adobe overfreakinpricedware either!!! I can't remember the last time I actually went to the store, browsed for software and actually bought something fun for Windows. Oh, and get ready to run EVERYTHING off the web. MORE $$$!!!
Oops... rant off... hahahahaha
I am going to the M$ "New Day" launch in Detroit on the 13th to get my "FREE" (after I listen to all the B$) copy of Office 2007 Pro though. It looks interesting - (I never installed my beta - hehe) but I'm not shelling out the $$$ to buy it.
However, anyone who is forced to stick with Windows (most of us!) will learn it and hate it and conform. Just my $.02 for now since this M$ post is here.
This is interesting - A Mac user switches to Vista
Mac Defector (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16873608/)
giZmo -----------------
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Wow that must be an old radeon, because aero 3d and the new solitare in Vista works great on my old AGP 8X Radeon 9550 on my media center PC that I use for recording TV shows.. You really should update your graphics card man.
On the box for my ATI 9200 it says it's the "Best Graphics Card in the World!" So why would I want to upgrade? ;-)
Seriously though this Aero thing is a scam by Microsoft I beleieve. First, take my card for example. I play Guild Wars on it for example and from my POV it looks awsome.
Areo only requires 64mb of RAM. Mine has 128mb. Most of the computers sold come with 'crappy' on-board graphics chipsets that don't support Aero. Forcing the user to buy a new graphics card....
...UNLESS that is that their "BIOS" lets them enable Aero support & then some how magically Aero will all of a sudden work on unsupported hardware? Sounds like Bill is forcing the computer manufactures to pay him for this "BIOS" trick so they don't have to through all the current Motherboard with the crap onboard graphics cards away.
So if I paid Microsoft a big amount of Money I could probably make my ATI 9200 work with Aero as well just fine. Not a hardware issue here I'm affraid.
Aside from that, Solitaire should still be playable without an Aero supported graphics card. What am I going to tell the old ladies that just bought a brand new PC today when they get a message that the computer isn't "good enough" (which is what they'll read in the message) to play their favorite game?
Why force it to be so slow? It doesn't make sense.
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Vista performs quite well here on my P4-550 with 6600GT. Possibly it's because you upgraded? Although supported, I always do a fresh install. This guarantees there's no legacy driver or system file that makes the system run slower.
BTW, I had OSX86 on this box to test and it was much slower. Probably due to the fact that there weren't any good Nvidia drivers (I used the TITAN driver).
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You all should see this videos... The're soooo funny
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
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I spent the last twenty minutes at work today just trying to open the printers and faxes panel on a workstation... "Slower than XP" translates roughly as "glacial" in my lexicon.
Vista sounds like a disaster in the making at this point, but we'll see.
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I'm not upgrading my machines to Vista. Period. It would most likely be better to purchase a new machine with Vista already on it, than to destroy an older working computer by upgrading it to Vista. Anyway, that's what one of the articles in the latest PC magazine suggested. Yes, I read that in Pc Mag of all places.
Fester
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@AmigaHeretic
so you are basing vista performance on how well solitare plays, interesting benchmark. Kind of like judging how well the amiga os is by testing its web browers, just plain silly and wrong. I guess you say it works well otherwise.
anyway, I won't be testing vista anytime soon as I have no need for it and have better things to do with my time. Since you claim to hate windows, here is an idea, stop using it! Linux packs quite a punch nowdays
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guru-666 wrote:
@AmigaHeretic
so you are basing vista performance on how well solitare plays, interesting benchmark. Kind of like judging how well the amiga os is by testing its web browers, just plain silly and wrong. I guess you say it works well otherwise.
anyway, I won't be testing vista anytime soon as I have no need for it and have better things to do with my time. Since you claim to hate windows, here is an idea, stop using it! Linux packs quite a punch nowdays
...but but... His remark was useful, at least to me. There's humor in the fact that a modern PC is having trouble running such a basic game.
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so you are basing vista performance on how well solitare plays, interesting benchmark. Kind of like judging how well the amiga os is by testing its web browers, just plain silly and wrong. I guess you say it works well otherwise. anyway, I won't be testing vista anytime soon as I have no need for it and have better things to do with my time. Since you claim to hate windows, here is an idea, stop using it! Linux packs quite a punch nowdays
No, not basing, but I found it amusing. Had I paid several hundred dollars for it and not be given it free from work, well, I wouldn't have been so amused.
Stop using Windows? I guess it's a love hate relationship. All day at work I fix the damn things, but it does do everything I want at home and is very stable & I usually don't have to fix my own system.
I pretty much just use Opera anyway. I run a tab for the web based MSN messenger, I use it as my email client, IRC client, radio (thanks to some awsome Opera widgets), download torrents in it, oh and I surf the internet with it too ;-) Opera is pretty much the perfect app. If Opera was the whole OS too, well, that would be awsome. Opera on AmigaOS, well, I wouldn't have a reason to use Windows anymore.
So I have two more points of view on Vista after work today. So slow. Add/Remove programs sucks compared with XP. Everything feels like molasses. The machines with the Core2Duos and Aero support are a lot better though. Not sure why the "non-aero" interface is so slow.
On my own system I have installed GuildWars and it runs pretty much the same. I kinda like it. Cool new stuff to explore. Sure I feel like I have no idea what's going on in the OS and that I have no idea how to fix it or tweak it yet. But it's pretty cool.
I did install 64bit Windows Vista Ultimate, but have all 64bit drivers. I don't think this is the reason for solitare going slow. Like I said, GuildWars runs great.
Anyway, I don' think it will be long before Vista takes over. Every computer we sell now at work is Vista. XP is gone.
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So I have two more points of view on Vista after work today. So slow. Add/Remove programs sucks compared with XP. Everything feels like molasses. The machines with the Core2Duos and Aero support are a lot better though. Not sure why the "non-aero" interface is so slow.
One of the reasons that things appear slow is User Account Control. This is the built-in protection against malware and programs that might use the installer/uninstaller to install or uninstall things. Most things like this now requires admin privileges..
You can disable this function but it's not recommended for safety. The MacOS has a similar function that requires admin priviledgs for certain operations.
I have been testing Vista for over a year, and most operations (not related to User Account Control) are much faster. Also, in x64 editions they seem faster than XP x64 are on the same hardware.. I guess some benchmarks in the press will probably feel that out.
I am just amazed anyone is benchmarking solitaire.. There are other pretty cool games there like the new 3D chess which isn't slow at all even on less than a gigahertz.
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monami wrote:
get us a drm capable os and quick...
get thee behind me satan :-)
drm is the bane of mankind. it is rosemary's baby. it is......well you get my point.
drm can just jump in the river and drown for all a am concerned. give me an os without that crap.
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I am just amazed anyone is benchmarking solitaire.
I guess you've never worked in retail PC sales.
There's 2 things 50 percent of the customer's ( most of them over 55) do with their computers.
Check email. (Never try to explain the difference of something like Outlook Express vs. Web based email)
and play Solitaire.
That's their first question when buying a computer. "Does it have games on it like Solitaire."
That why I even bothered to check it out on my sytem.
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Windows Vista Ultimate FI OEM (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/vista_ultimate1.jpg)
...resulted in ultimate Vista pain (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/vista_ultimate2.jpg) ;-)
It would only install after disabling USB from BIOS (don't even ask how long it took to figure that out).
I bet DonnyEMU has good justification for this one, too? ;-)
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Vista ... whats that? oh yeah, I remember now ... BLOATWARE!
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.
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What does the error message say?
Cheers,
Matt
Piru wrote:
Windows Vista Ultimate FI OEM (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/vista_ultimate1.jpg)
...resulted in ultimate Vista pain (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/vista_ultimate2.jpg) ;-)
It would only install after disabling USB from BIOS (don't even ask how long it took to figure that out).
I bet DonnyEMU has good justification for this one, too? ;-)
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@DonnyEMU
Has M$ fixed the problem of disabling the built-in Admin account when installing Vista over XP? There's going to be a lot of peeved peeps out there who are running their XP machine as admin without any other user account if M$ hasn't fixed that! Also to others, before installing a Vista upgrade, make sure you create a second "Admin" account with FULL rights so that you can get back into the machine as an admin. Any limited "USER" accounts will not have full access to basic functions such as install, folder access, etc..... After upgrade, you can then use the secondary admin acct to change limited user rights. Just FYI. :madashell:
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I just aquired a dual 1.6GHz processor upgrade for my trusty old G4 Powermac, this combined with my Macbook now means there is a strong posibility of my pc being dismantled and certain components going into a mini ITX case to sit under the TV.
So much for Vista :-D
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Piru: I've read in UK PC magazines that people were having trouble with USB when installng Vista. I wonder if its to stop us criminals copying things :crazy:
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Starrfoxx wrote:
With Vista coming out and requiring intense hardware, this would be the perfect time for the Amiga to make a comeback. Put a new Amiga with a cd/dvd rom drive, USB, ethernet, OS4, and put it into a nice A500/1200 keyboard with the ability to hook it up to a TV or monitor, slap on an inexpensive price, and I think we may have something.
Yeah a crazy dream (one which I share BTW) Your definitely right but someone else(PS3? etc) will develop it.
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@AmiGeezer
What does the error message say?
roughly:
"Installation aborted
Changes made during the installation process will not be saved."
...and the requester:
"Windows installation
Windows cannot install required files. File not found. Make sure that all the needed files for the installation are available, and restart the installation. Error: 0x80070002."
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@gizmo350
I support windows networking at a local accounting firm, so I am keenly aware of priviledges and rights.. First of all this depends on version of vista that you are running. Remember "Longhorn Server" is on the way as well that addresses all of this kinda thing in networked environments..
On home machines some people make themselves administrator's instead of normal users because this gives them complete control of the machine. Also some software vendors in the past including m$ have had software that only would run with elevated rights for reading and writing files and accessing other people's resources. On Unix environments most users NEVER have or run under the administrator account, also true on MacOS..
Microsoft has been trying to discourage people from doing this and writing software that requires this for sometime (since the last XP update for security a couple years back). Running as administrator was required then, it's really not anymore. Also the way it's implemented also makes it extra secure so malware doesn't kill your system.
Anyway, my experience after beta 2 with RTM installed (did an upgrade install of my windows media center pc to vista home premium. That machine has several users including an ADMIN user, an MCX user account (limited user that is used by my Media Center Extender/XBox 360)..
All I can tell you is that after the upgrade (nividia chipset all the way AMD 64 CPU ATI 9550) I had no problems with any installed programs (except nero, which I don't really need anymore) this was not an issue for me.. Limited user accounts otherwise and guests were disabled, and it asks me for permission for anything that would require a "admin" account.. I think they took care of that issue mostly betweeen b2 and RTM builds.
I know on Vista Business on a network that things work very differently.
Even on the home and ultimate packages if you want:
Disable the firewall
Disable windows defender
Disable User Account Control
Renable the Admin account and even revert back to an XP security policy, you can still do this..
It's not recommended but everything I have heard so far here is related to a new security measure that can be disabled (easily googled for on the web)..
I do recommend people get a program called VistaBoot Pro, it gives you your boot configuration options from XP back and supports booting multiple OSes (XP, Vista, Aros, etc..)
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DonnyEMU wrote:
Even on the home and ultimate packages if you want:
Disable the firewall
Disable windows defender
Disable User Account Control
Renable the Admin account and even revert back to an XP security policy, you can still do this..
Ahhh, but can you remove all the DRM bull$hit???
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Ahhh, but can you remove all the DRM bull$hit???
Yeah. Just install WinUAE and do everything in AmigaOS that you want ;-)