Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: Starke on January 28, 2007, 02:56:10 AM
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OK, No more silly postings, only suggestions of how to help, or what you think should be done.
If you think Amiga should so something, say it here.
Here are my suggestions and thoughts so far, that may help our beloved platform.
-Email both companies(everyone in all amiga forums)once every two weeks??
-Try to find other companies to back Amiga, give them reasons why
-Maybe donate(when the time is right??) $2 when Amiga starts acting upon the community and what the amiga community want.
-What should Amiga Inc, Hyperion do?
I think perhaps:
-They should make AMiga OS for pc platforms, and that one can use any other software on it from any other platform.
Thats it for now, I havent had enough time yet to think of more, but then, we are the Amiga community here, so Im sure we're all gonna help eachother to MAKE IT HAPPEN.
I dont wanna debate this, you can either help me, and maybe we work as a team and help eachother, or you can simply leave. YOU ALL love your amiga, and I miss using mine at day in day out, (but i still use it)SO lets do this, one more time, give it our all, and who knows, maybe one of us is smart enough to pull it off better than the rest of us.
THAT IS what I think, this is for real, I do wanna try and make something happen.
Anyones help, ideas, suggestions, or even actions towards Amiga inc or hypewrion, or even managing to find ways to convince other big companies to help, would be
GREATLY appreaciated.
Thats it,
there you have it, an open forum than can go on for a few years, and hopefully during the next few years we see an uprising of some sort, as well as seeing Amiga actually holding its own against the other platforms.
Cheers 8-)
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OK:
One more thing I just thought of, maybe in a weeks time, I should have something on paper to write to them by then, I will notify AMiga inc of my posting here, and let them know that If they want donations and a backing from their Amiga community, they are going to have to listen to us and listen to what we want.
Just an afterthought.
8-)
EDIT - I forgot to say that, anyone who can give links or information on what would help this, is welcomed.
Also
I dont mind your thoughts on this, I just am trying to avoid negativity, if we all start thinking positive about this, it is more likely that we will succeed as a team, rather than a man and his Amiga mates helping him out.
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Okay, I'm POSITIVE that people aren't going to be able to raise enough money to hire the attorneys (let alone find some that are willing to "volunteer" time) to go after the licenses, patents and other legal red tape that people and companies say they have...
When you are finished you can join me at my tropical resort called Atlantis, okay..
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-Email both companies(everyone in all amiga forums)once every two weeks??
I'm sure Amiga Inc. is very much aware of what people are saying on forums, but OS4 is pretty much out of their hands. Hyperion has their own agenda.
-Try to find other companies to back Amiga, give them reasons why
The "cool" needs to come back. That will happen not with new hardware, but with awesome development tools. Hobbyists care about hardware. Programmers care about platforms.
-Maybe donate(when the time is right??) $2 when Amiga starts acting upon the community and what the amiga community want.
The Amiga community is too small for the company to really offer what we want. As for donations, Amiga Inc. has already blown a lot of investor money. They need more solid ideas. More money is a waste.
-What should Amiga Inc, Hyperion do?
Make a new OS that feels like an Amiga, but is based on entirely new technology. Give it a kickass programming language or shell so people will write software and say to themselves, "this is so much easier and cooler than Linux!"
-They should make AMiga OS for pc platforms, and that one can use any other software on it from any other platform.
Dual-boot is a good idea. AmigaOS is going to compete with Windows/Linux/OSX no matter what.
If you're suggesting running software from other OSes on the Amiga, there's two problems:
1) The abstraction layers required adds bloat REAL fast, and usually results in tons of bugs. I use a lot of UN*X software on my Windows machine, and the abstraction layers are usually fatally broken. What UN*X programmer wants to make their software work properly on Windows? They only want to make it available for promotional purposes. Not a good idea.
2) The reason for having an alternative OS is so you can do things your way, not mimick everyone else's development philosophies. I want something fresh, not endless half-baked ports that already work on 10 other UN*X-like OSes.
Refer to why nobody uses Java applications. People want native programs that follow familiar interface guidelines.
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-What should Amiga Inc do?
Donate all Amiga IP to the public domain.
-What should Hyperion do?
Find some/any hardware to run their orphaned OS on, then hope and prey that they can make back at least their investment?
/grabs popcorn.
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Donate all Amiga IP to the public domain.
Just give out the source - and make it something tricky that you're not allowed to redistribute binary versions of the source. Derived works must be resubmitted to AI for binary release.
Those that can't download the source and roll their own need to buy the quarterly AI Installer disk.
-What should Hyperion do?
Find some/any hardware to run their orphaned OS on, then hope and prey that they can make back at least their investment?
Or just get out of the way of the community. :-)
/grabs popcorn.
oh yeah, this should be fun :crazy:
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heh, I think he got fed up with reality.
Seriously, I wish Ainc would relinquish control of the brand and trademark and let the community take it wherever they want, the game's up anyway.
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I'm sure Amiga Inc. is very much aware of what people are saying on forums, but OS4 is pretty much out of their hands. Hyperion has their own agenda.
From what I've been reading, it's far worse then that. It appears that AI opted their $25K buyback option in their contract with Hyperion. Little did they know, OS4 isn't using Hyperion's kernel but the Twin's kernel. I'm not sure what the vast majority of IT folks would call an OS, but I'd say the kernel is the OS (ie Linux has a Linux kernel with other code to flesh it out for end users). Apparently the Twins have passed on making a kernel for OS5 for AI. So we can safely say OS4 isn't make or break for anything and will, if AI can survive that long, be headed for the dust bin of history.
So what is being paraded about as Amiga OS4, isn't owned at all by Amiga. So I'll sit in the cheap seats while I'm waiting to hear that AI has had enough and started to issue C&Ds on OS4 sales (yeah right), and transfers. :popcorn:
Dammy
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Dear WACCON:
You are a really nice person, unlike many on this site, youve actually given me an insight of what may need to be done here.
AND:
I thank you for this.
Curious, Do you think if we got Hyperion to work with Amiga Inc, instead of having their own agenda, that this would help severely to get good systems and good products again, whereby programmers will even want to use an Amiga for it??
Ideas:
Tell me, what solid ideas do you think we may be able to advise them of/about?
Linux:
I thought Amiga was relatively easy to use, but you make an excellent point with the programming. Your right, I will continue to watch this posting, and see what others, and you have to say further, Until I then proceed to make a few formal letters, that I may show here to the Community before sending.
Maybe somehow, I can get a lot of Amiga users to sign it electronically.
Anyway, that'll be a bit of later stage.
Sorry, Not sure about the bottom bit here, but I think what your saying is, Amiga shouldnt have to downgrade themselves just to make sales, but rather come up with something totally fresh to the computing world?????
Any feedback on this mate is very appreciated, also, if in the meantime you've come up with your own Ideas, post em.
Cheers
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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i'm sorry to disappoint you but many of us are supporting Amiga since 1985 (in a way or another).
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Most annoying to me is that some people here are branded non-Amiga fans by Starke and then get ordered to sell their Amiga stuff.
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Framiga:
Flashlab:
Sorry mate, Is the edit Ive done on my last posting better?
Thanks.
And I did not intend to insult anyone. Unless I felt the need to defend.
And Ive been trying to look outside the square, and actually come up with ways to make this BIG, and make it happen again.
Cheers
8-) 8-)
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Starke wrote:
-Email both companies(everyone in all amiga forums)once every two weeks??
Nah, I'd go for a 2 hours rythm. Let's piss off everybody in every IT office, and we'll have the best Amiga coverage in years !
- Damn, someone is SPAM/hassling me about some computer, I don't get this Amika thing..?
- Hey, I got this too ! I think it's an ad for refurbished Sega Saturns !
- ...
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xaccrocheur:
Are you being serious??
Did you have any other suggestions on my other ideas, or on Waccons post???
Kind Regards
Amiga man
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Starke wrote:
Curious, Do you think if we got Hyperion to work with Amiga Inc, instead of having their own agenda, that this would help severely to get good systems and good products again, whereby programmers will even want to use an Amiga for it??
Most (nearly all?) of the companies left with the Amiga are pushing their own brand of Amiga-ness. Hyperion were no different, they just mistook the die-hard "PPC Rulez, Wintel or Die!" crowd as actually having a lot of disposable income. Amiga Inc want to push Classic Amigas so long as it costs them nothing, they don't have to do anything and they can continue to make piddly little mobile phone games.
If you really want to support classic Amiga, support AROS.
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EvilGuy:
Not sure on this one, as I had bigger plans For Amiga in general, when things start going good again, that is.
I'll keep your thought in mind though, but I still really like Waccons informative information.
Cheers bud
8-) 8-)
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Looks like some kind of AW type troll.
If he's posting the same old crap repeadedly and if he won't ever give in to reason, perhaps it's wise for everybody to put him on their mental ignore list.
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Starke:
Dude, seriously, you have a lot of energy. Use it wisely. Sorry if you take our realism personal, we're not trying to be mean, we're just helping you face the facts. You might as well try to get the C64 or the Apple ][ back on the market again.
The life and death of a computer is not binary; it is not either "alive" or "dead". There are several stages between these two, and the Amiga is not dead..... yet.
I own several Amigas, but I'm never selling anyone of them. There's something called "nostalgic value", you know. Of course, I'm also developing stuff for the Amiga, but just for fun. Demoscene productions, some utils.
I'm an Amiga Classic fan, let Amiga Inc and/or Hyperion do whatever they want in the future, I don't care. I have exactly what I need.
And as for MY future, MacOSX is the obvious successor. It has the modern Amiga feeling I require.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
Looks like some kind of AW type troll.
If he's posting the same old crap repeadedly and if he won't ever give in to reason, perhaps it's wise for everybody to put him on their mental ignore list.
Starke = the Australian incarnation of Helgis?
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Starke wrote:
OK, No more silly postings
I won't hold my breath...
Here are my suggestions and thoughts so far, that may help our beloved platform.
OK.
-Email both companies(everyone in all amiga forums)once every two weeks??
This would probably be seen as "pestering" to them, and they would end up spending valuable time which could be spent creating and delivering new products, emailing everyone. However a nice progress update (a realistic one) every now and again would not go amiss.
-Try to find other companies to back Amiga, give them reasons why
For companies to back Amiga there needs to be a solid user base and proper funding and with Amigas financial history I'm sure that would take some convincing.
-They should make AMiga OS for pc platforms, and that one can use any other software on it from any other platform.
OS X and even Linux do this now, but I'm not going into the topic of AOS on x86 because it has been discussed to DEATH :-D
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And as for MY future, MacOSX is the obvious successor. It has the modern Amiga feeling I require.
AMEN :pint:
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Bleh, I swear some people have too much energy. It's kinda like a top that is spinning around the room, just aimlessly bumping into things.
Do some people even realize that economics of things. Some companies do things for a reason. Some just do things out of stupidity (need we even mention some of them.) I get people b'ing everyday about prices, and how I shouldn't push these things, blah, blah , blah. People that are out to make money will only do that. People that are out to promote some kinda agenda will.
All the whining and pining in the world is going to make the world of Amiga magically come back into the limelight. Face it, Commodore had the ball and dropped. Get over it. Other companies along the way had their fun violating the Amiga brand for their only own selfish needs. That's life. Just get up in the morning(or night if you work nights) and just be happy. The S man has no right to judge people just because they didn't swallow his "Trippy Happy" pills.
For as it stands, the Amiga in it's current state is like a rich atheist at his own funeral. All dressed up and nowhere to go. :ponder:
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humppa wrote:
Starke = the Australian incarnation of Helgis?
His/her behaviour does make it look like that, however, no postings about how he/she fried any A1s. So, no, can't be another Helgis :-D.
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@starke,
I'm sorry sir, but your continued diatribe is misplaced and tends to irritate a few people. Amiga Inc does not need our help, and under NO circumstances should ANYONE "donate money" to them. We already did that, by way of a $50 "lifetime membership" which devolved into a hellaciously expensive t-shirt that took roughly 3 years to arrive.
I understand where you're coming from. I tried the same stance years ago, but it got me literally nothing, except for being banned by Amiga Inc for having suggestions that they didn't approve of. (Trust me, I've been at this a little longer than you).
Amiga Inc and Hyperion (in whatever form they hold today) must work out their own problems. That sir, is the nature of business. Regardless of whether either lives or dies, the Amiga that we all use will still be here, unchanged.
or you can simply leave.
In that, I politely suggest that it's you that might want to reconsider your position on "leaving". It is not your place to suggest that anyone leave this site under any circumstances. This site welcomes all things Amiga, but a majority of our visitors have pretty much written off any "next generation" platform for the moment. It is not available, and even if we could purchase OS4, it has zero hardware available to run on.
Making a spectacle of yourself and irritating other Amiga.org members with duplicate Amiga worshipping threads in the meantime will not change that. There are, frankly, other sites that would welcome your mantra much easier than the battle-scarred and weary crowd on Amiga.org.
Regards,
Wayne Hunt
Owner, Amiga.org
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And as for MY future, MacOSX is the obvious successor. It has the modern Amiga feeling I require.
I absolutely agree. Having owned an iMac for about 5 months now, running OSX, it literally feels like everything the "future Amiga" should have been.
Easy to operate, fun, powerful, configurable, silent, innovative, well-supported by both commercial and shareware developers.
As much as I would have loved to pretend, Amiga Inc can never compete with that, and using the "Amiga" name for cell phone games just doesn't get it with me. Sorry, that's how I feel.
Wayne
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Apparently the Twins
You mean the Frieden brothers? Then, to put it bluntly, using "Hyperion" to refer to them is correct, since they work for them. :-)
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Wayne wrote:
It is not available, and even if we could purchase OS4, it has zero hardware available to run on.
A+++++++++++++++.......
How much clearear could you be? None!!!! :-):-):-):-):-):-)
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Dear Wayne,
That is just my point, it shouldnt need Amiga hardware to run it.
After all, as far as I know, even the Mac os Is on a PC based hardware.
On the topic, why doesnt Amiga or Hyperion, or bloody damn well whoever, including cloanto if he wants to, make the OS4 or OS5, or whatever OS may come in future, make it available on normal PC hardware, as a standalone operating system??
And In doing so, allow it to run PC software like macromedia, adobe, and other leading brands, atleast then we may see a slight fluctuance in the market again, maybe even to the point where Amiga starts to gain popularity.
Nothing against you, but Waccon was absolutely right in what he said, I think he is a smart person, or she.
And maybe we can still find ways to help eachother out as a whole, to get new Computers, software or whatever the future holds.
For example, maybe we start trying to help AROS, and view it as the new Amiga, and pis off Amiga Inc. After all, isnt AROS also working on AMiga OS's? Or is it Hyperion thats taken over OS4, and AROS will not be able to update any of the Amiga OS's in future???
We should really all start thinking about this, I really believe it is possible, as do my mates, unfortunately, unlike my mates, and most people, I lack some technical skills, as well as communication skills, so it isnt easy for me to express exactly what I need to say, be it on screen, or in person.
This is where I am lucky for my mates to help, but the bigger problem is, to actually retrieve help from this site, as so far, Ive only really had Waccon, gertsy, reddwarfer, derringer,stopthegop and on occasion no fast mem helping me to try and succeed in this. Thats not too flash, considering this site probably has like hundreds of members.
Anyway, Thank you for saying what you did, but I was wondering if you even looked at your whole site, to see if anything was new, since last night wayne, and its not a posting.
Im here to stay, and I am going to continue finding ways, I am a positive person, always have been, and anything that I have tried for, well, lets just say Ive always found ways to succeed.
cheers
and goodnight peoples 8-) 8-)
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@Starke.
word of advise, stop trolling and don't write realy long messages, nobody reads them.
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Starke wrote:
Anyway, Thank you for saying what you did, but I was wondering if you even looked at your whole site, to see if anything was new, since last night wayne, and its not a posting.
Sir,
You need to understand that aside from having been out last week on business travel and returning home with a horrific head cold which kept me off the computer all weekend, I have a full time job and 6 other sites that I run so I can't sit on Amiga.org posting all day.
Im here to stay, and I am going to continue finding ways, I am a positive person, always have been, and anything that I have tried for, well, lets just say Ive always found ways to succeed.
That's fine, but you're still new here, while some of us (myself included) have been here for 15 years or more.
What you refuse to understand is that when the community (aka what you are referring to as "the market") was still hundreds -- not dozens -- strong, we tried to "fight the good fight" for years before. We supported Amiga Inc right up until the time they disappeared from the community.
After years of neglect and indifference from them, most of us have given up on the idea of Amiga Inc or Hyperion actually accomplishing anything any more. While I personally get along with Bill McEwen and his staff on a personal basis, collectively speaking we've all gotten our hopes raised, then crushed too many times to care any more.
As such, we're just thankful to have our "classic" systems that we enjoy using and don't really care what "they" think "the future" is any more.
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
Starke wrote:
Anyway, Thank you for saying what you did, but I was wondering if you even looked at your whole site, to see if anything was new, since last night wayne, and its not a posting.
Sir,
You need to understand that aside from having been out last week on business travel and returning home with a horrific head cold which kept me off the computer all weekend, I have a full time job and 6 other sites that I run so I can't sit on Amiga.org posting all day.
Im here to stay, and I am going to continue finding ways, I am a positive person, always have been, and anything that I have tried for, well, lets just say Ive always found ways to succeed.
That's fine, but you're still new here, while some of us (myself included) have been here for 15 years or more.
What you refuse to understand is that when the community (aka what you are referring to as "the market") was still hundreds -- not dozens -- strong, we tried to "fight the good fight" for years before. We supported Amiga Inc right up until the time they disappeared from the community.
After years of neglect and indifference from them, most of us have given up on the idea of Amiga Inc or Hyperion actually accomplishing anything any more. While I personally get along with Bill McEwen and his staff on a personal basis, collectively speaking we've all gotten our hopes raised, then crushed too many times to care any more.
As such, we're just thankful to have our "classic" systems that we enjoy using and don't really care what "they" think "the future" is any more.
Wayne
And might I just add to that: "Get a Pegasos"
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iamaboringperson wrote:
And might I just add to that: "Get a Pegasos"
Sorry, you are correct, but for obvious reasons, I will never suggest that to anyone as long as Bill Buck is in any way affiliated or associated with that situation.
While I have respect for the others involved, I don't deal, nor would I recommend anyone dealing with that -- for lack of better, more appropriate yet less-family friendly words -- snake oil salesman any more than I would suggest he buy a "mil-spec A3000" from Doomy.
Wayne
[edit : come to think of it, I'd strongly recommend anyone buy from Doomy before giving a dime to Bill Buck].
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I don't know what is wrong with me, but it is sometimes refreshing to see new users like Starke. Like it is already said, many here have had the same feeling to use common sense and solve things once and for all during late-Commodore/post-Commodore era, being it talks about discussions about potential buyers of Amiga, cpu-architecture after m68k (alpha, ppc, etc.), P5/warpos, P5/P96, pci-busboards, Amiga MMC etc.
Once in a while there are someone like Starke, being it here at a.org or other forums etc., full of energy, maybe not so much knowledge what has happened in the past 10-15 years with Amiga, but still having so fond memories of this platform - this in itself shows something about Amiga (Classic Amiga). Same of course can be seen in other old platforms too.
Same feeling may no longer be possible to achieve for everyone with "modern" Amiga (AOS4, MOS) with current alternatives (Linux, MacOS, even Windows XP/Vista). I'm not sure, but I think that MOS/AOS4 mainly rekindles the old feeling, but not necessarely bring anything new, but I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm more than anxious to get hold of OS4 for my A4000. And this is the only realistic market I see currently for Amiga/amiga-like systems - new hw/sw once in a while to keep us busy fiddling with our Amigas and something cheap/free, nice stuff (being it something like Minimig, PPC-mb with AmigaOS/MOS with clear roots without being just a base for ports from *nix, AmigaForever) for future Starkes to give them that feeling back.
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@quenthal,
Please don't misunderstand. I have nothing against Starke or anyone else for their enthusiasm. It is rather refreshing (though some might think it amusing) but it's rather hard to share in the enthusiasm for a lot of us. Where I believe he's going wrong is the "cheerleader approach" (not meant derogatorily) and the lack of proper perspective of history.
I mean it's not like ALL of us at one point weren't just as enthusiastic, but how many shards can a dream be broken into before it's just a memory?
The realistic issue is this. While I'm sure we would ALL love to see Amiga Inc suddenly hit the lottery and be able to spend the billion dollars minimally necessary to create a competitive platform, it just isn't realistic.
Even if they had hardware, and software which wasn't simply a port of a 1994 level OS, there is no third-party software development, there is no market to buy it. Those three things (product, development, market) are crucial and even if Amiga Inc/Hyperion had two out of those three, it just doesn't stand a chance against Apple or Microsoft.
Think about it. The Pegasos exists, it is available, it has an OS (one out of the three) but it has no market, and only negligible software development (no commercial development of notable scale. This is why Buck has pretty much (thank God) given up on splitting the "Amiga market" and is leaning towards the *nix, BSD crowd.
Trouble with both solutions is that they are slow, antiquated, overpriced, and based on now antique hardware.
I think Starke does have the standard point that AmigaOS should be available for commodity hardware (PC) but I made that recommendation over 5 years ago and was booted off of their little mailing list for it.
He should be investigating and supporting AROS.
Wayne
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Wayne: You have put into words what I was unable to do. Absolutely spot on. Now I know why I keep coming back here :lol:
Lets all have a :pint:
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@wayne:
Please don't misunderstand. I have nothing against Starke or anyone else for their enthusiasm. It is rather refreshing (though some might think it amusing) but it's rather hard to share in the enthusiasm for a lot of us. Where I believe he's going wrong is the "cheerleader approach" (not meant derogatorily) and the lack of proper perspective of history
Even if they had hardware, and software which wasn't simply a port of a 1994 level OS, there is no third-party software development, there is no market to buy it. Those three things (product, development, market) are crucial and even if Amiga Inc/Hyperion had two out of those three, it just doesn't stand a chance against Apple or Microsoft.
Yes, you put it out much clearer, just what I tried to say :-). I couldn't agree more in every point you made.
I mean it's not like ALL of us at one point weren't just as enthusiastic, but how many shards can a dream be broken into before it's just a memory?
Good and valid question (has been infact quite long now... :-( ). Those, who still have some shards left to be broken, are probably hobbyists like me who wan't new upgrades, maybe even with "Amiga" logo on it (like OS4) for old machines and those who bought Pegasos/A1. Maybe it is no longer possible to break that to smaller shards if you belong to that first group, since it is neither dream or memory - more like a hobby. For the other part of this group, I don't know. Those, who belong to that "memory group", either by changing platform in early 90s or later while waiting, could probably get intrested in some nice C64DTV-like product, being it either software-pack or small periphral to connect existing PC/console/tv.
There probably is some intrested in completely new hardware too in every group, but I don't think the reason for them to get that new hardware&os or even AmigaOS for x86 could be anything else that some memery/feeling they have towards (classic) Amiga. Anything else, and they probably ain't realistic - atleast for now.
For me, my A4000 currently is something that I spend time fixing/tweaking out just like playing some new PC/Wii-game, or making my htpc/ht better. I'm not trying to replace any of my "serious" laptops/desktop with it, it just is something that gives pleasure as it is. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy OS4 for it the day it is on sale, even now I'm hungry for every demoscene release, 3rd party patch & new utilities released for 3.x
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I think amiga should send out Live iso's of OS4 to websites so then can get a taste of OS4 and at the end of the trial of OS4 then there should be a popup showing what you have to purchase and the price try to make as cheap as posible.The trial shouls run on Intel and PPC.But the actuall OS4 run on the amigaone or classics with PPC. :-D
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They need to get units on shelves, there aren`t any main street shops you can walk into, and ask a salesman about os4.0, let alone see or touch a migy.
Most peole you speek to think amiga died with os3.0.
Amiga 1 light could be the answer, get it on the shelves, in the likes of currys, commet and pc world. A nice big surround with advertising. In the stlye of sony or xbox.
Only a few of the major stores at first, then increase as sales pick up.
:-D
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But who would buy it?
No one. Literally. Does it run PC software? Nope, then thats that crowd gone. Does it run PS/xbox/ninetendo games? Nope, no interest there then.
"so what", asks the potential chain-store buyer, "does it run?" Answer: nothing, because there is practically no software in existence for it. So the retailers will not stock it. Even if they did, the customer will ask the same question, get the same answers, and walk away.
A new Amiga is a pipedream. The market is limited to those of us who have an Amiga (real or emulated) and perhaps those with fond memories who could be tempted back. At best a few thousand, probably only a few hundred, and out of that how many would actually pay cash for one...
IMHO the best anyone can do with the licence is make a limited production run of "nice" classic Amigas, such as 68030 based A1200's, A4000Ts, and some "desirable" hardware such as 060 and PPC cards, Picasso IV cards, and scandoubler/flicker-fixers, for those who still need/dream/lust over such equipment.
Even that limited Amiga market shrinks year on year.
Or perhaps a Amiga PCI card, cram as much as possible on a PCI card (030/040/060/PPC, custom chipset, CIAs and floppy, video-out, and a gfx chipset such as Cybervision or Picasso IV used so the cgx/p96 support is in place). Would it sell, probably in small numbers. It can be done, look at minimig et al. Provided it runs classic OS, so the apps, games, etc are all in place.
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in a nut shell, it would run amiga de, which in turn does "as tested" will run on pc`s playstations 2 and 3, also implimented, in the new nintendo Wii.
Just ask me old mucka sven harvey of steller dreams.
And rights the weekly amiga article in micro mart.
you would do well to lern my young padowan. :rtfm:
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Who would pay, hmmm i did, I payed £1,400 to be exact, for my A1G4, and works lovely, ta thank you very much.
Using it this very second.
And i can access every thing you can on the web, along with classic os sofware, modern os software, not to mention, top hat and Linux.
Oh does that mean my A1 runs pc stuff as well, funny thing that.
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Keep dreaming. Aint going to happen.
How many people bought an A1 etc... ie any "amiga" hardware platform post Escom... millions? hundreds of thousands? tens of thousands? Obviously they flew off the shelves in such quantities that the manufacturers are still in business today, developing new hardware, upgrades, etc etc.
or not. As is the case.
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So what if it runs AmigaDE? That whole project was dead the minute A Inc. thought it up.
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Are you the proud owner of a one of those pc things that hangs, or keeps crashing? or gets millions of bugs per year by any chance are ya? :crazy:
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Yep, and I can't remember the last time my PC crashed. My A4000 is a lot more unstable.
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Yes, as well as (until recently) several Amigas. But if I was going to pay £1400, it wouldnt be on a system with slow memory, ancient gfx card, and no very limited memory and nil expansion. One can buy a lot of toys for that amount, or a seriously specced PC.
Millions of bugs? Go on then, list them... :)
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Obviously aint got you 3.9 set up that goog lol.
But seriously, if every amiga user put there money where there mouth is, the problem would rectify itself.
It`s just that no one beleves no more.
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goog GOOOG what the hell is GOOG???? i ment good ha ha ha
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alewis wrote:
Yes, as well as (until recently) several Amigas. But if I was going to pay £1400, it wouldnt be on a system with slow memory, ancient gfx card, and no very limited memory and nil expansion. One can buy a lot of toys for that amount, or a seriously specced PC.
Millions of bugs? Go on then, list them... :)
Well theres that one that does thingy, and there that other one that kinda makes the screen go all wibly wobbly
cant remember the other few hundred :help:
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er maybe not. Have OS3.9 here on an A4K/CSPPC/PIV, and its not as stable as my WarpEngine rig was. Which in turn had more problems than my old B2000/KS2.04/OS3.1 .... and a PC was just so much faster at doing anything, such as word prcoessing, DTP, DTV, *printing* (oh, and can actually use the features of modern printers), etc etc.
dont get me wrong, but there simply isnt the market to make it commercially attractive any more. There are not enough Amiga users.
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alewis wrote:
Yes, as well as (until recently) several Amigas. But if I was going to pay £1400, it wouldnt be on a system with slow memory, ancient gfx card, and no very limited memory and nil expansion. One can buy a lot of toys for that amount, or a seriously specced PC.
Hmmm Current exchange rates, 1400 pounds could almost buy me that new 50 caliber sniper rifle I want (saw it in the movie "Smokin Aces" Sunday)
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I agree, i don`t think amiga will ever be massive again, but if they box clever, they can sneek it into peoples homes, they missed out on a golden opertunity when the sky hd boxes come out.
The best they can hope for is a nice market, but not having any new machines on offer, they are huring them selves more each month.
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re you lucky lad, we gota settle for .22`s over hear, or a coulpe of air riffles. :cry:
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MUCKER:
You are an awesome person, I like what youve said throughout this whole thread, and I think your right. It is possible for Amiga to come back good enough to keep themselves steady for a long time coming, if they play their cards right.
And I think it is possible in future, for them to overrun the home scenario at a later stage in their existance.
Thank you for supporting the cause, and with telling how it is, rather than telling me your dreams.
Thank you for also saying exactly what Ive been trying to say this whole time. That we can have Amiga rise again, if we all play it smart, and if we manage for any company supporting or creating things for Amiga to play it smart.
Cheers 8-) 8-)
Maybe we can team up at a later stage to work out ways to help Amiga, wether it be through AROS, or amiga inc
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Dude, just what in God's name are you smoking?
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shillard wrote:
Dude, just what in God's name are you smoking?
Whatever hes smoking, I want some. I've been banging my face into this circuit board on my desk for a week now, I could use some serious optimism.
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@starke
Can I have a pint of whatever you are on? I dunno what it is but it seems to make reality go away.
So come on, how is Amiga going to rise again?
How are they going to "overrun the home scenario"?
"if we manage for any... to play it smart" - and how, exactly, could you do that? several million Amiga users couldn't when C= had it... and that was when the IP rested with one company. What can a few hundred users achieve now, even ignoring the on-going feud between god knows how many companies.
As for last comment, well, there is precisely one way and one way only you could help. Invest £hundred million; to acquire all IP, establish R&D, bring products to market, and then hope. Sadly, I doubt you have the abillity.
Sorry to shatter your illusion. Reality sucks. And as a one-time Amiga evangelist, it hurts. That is how it is, rather than a dream.
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guys, here is how you can go back to the 90's and save the amiga. I know it's crazy but it's the only way!
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27371
amiga.org needs a sense of humor about such stuff.
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ALEWIS:
Wake up fatigue kills. as does being negative on life.
I am in reality, I can see some type of light here, I can see Amiga making it, they do still have a good OS, but they can so improve on it and make it even better than the rest. Its just a question of, whether or not Amiga Inc, AROS, Hyperion or whomever, actually decided to go full monty, that this will happen.
I am not in an Illusion, maybe you are, But Mucker said it, and still people refuse to wake up, and want to live in their dream world of classics, rather than wanting bigger and better, and trying to looks for way for this to happen.
WACCON even mentioned excellent points, but still, none of you listen to it, its like you read it, and it isnt transfering to your brains.
Cheers. 8-) 8-)
And in all seriousness, I know what is and isnt possible, and I know, Anything is possible in this world. Even bill gates knoew that at the time, everyone thought he wasnt in reality, but look at him now.
SO I suggest all in doubt here, wake up, and accept the possibilities, and drive on them, rather than driving on our classics and history. Lets make the future herre, together.
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Hmmm Current exchange rates, 1400 pounds could almost buy me that new 50 caliber sniper rifle I want (saw it in the movie "Smokin Aces" Sunday)
Question would be, can your find a local range that can handle .50 rifle and can your shoulder handle that type of punishment? Oooouchies.
Dammy
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Sunshine, if I could actually understand some of your ramblings, I might have a clue what you are on about.
fatigue... let me see, I don't feel fatigued. Please elaborate.
They have a good OS - opinion. make it better than the rest? Perhaps you could define that.
Why would I be - presumably - deluded? "But Mucker said it" - so that makes it definite, does it. If Mucker said "jump off a cliff, you can fly", would that be 'reality".
People want to live in a dream world of classics? No. Have you seriously considered just what an Amiga is? It *is* the clasic Amiga. Simply because there is nothing else in existence. There is no guarantee that "bigger and better" would be nothing more than a Linux-type environment, ie a multi-tasking OS running on x86 hardware.
It isn't transfering to our brains? No, its *you* who doesn't listen, or rather, does not want to hear anything other than "Amiga will rise, rah-rah-rah".
Anythign is possible in this world? Bollocks. I will never be able to play basketball for the Harlem Globetrotters, save goal for England, or have babies.
The comment re Bill gates... Ok, here's a challenge for you. For once, instead of avoiding answering questions, exactly was it that "Bill Gates know... that every one thought he wasn't in reality".
What was it. Where did he "evangelize" it, and define "everyone" and their refutations, publications/media such scorn was published.
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@starke
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27371
again because I feel you are an ideal candiadte for this! I know it's dangous but MAYBE if you ask realy nice Wayne will loan you his .50 rifle for this mission, you will be saving the amiga! :violin:
@all
let's not get all nasty, humor is the solution folks, have a good laugh and move on. Starky has his hart is the right place , just misguided and rambeling....needs somebody to tell him a joke and he might snap out of it.
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~15 years ago, 3D hardware support was a good idea.
~10 years ago, a PPC based Amiga motherboard was a good idea.
~5 years ago, porting Amiga OS to x86 was a good idea.
A lot has happened in the computer market in 5-15 years.
Amiga just isnt relevant anymore.
It says a lot for the platform that so many people remember it fondly, Ainc's big mistake was thinking those happy memories would make people buy a AUD$1000+ motherboard, 10 years after it was a good idea.
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@coldfish,
you did not ready my post.....
with timetravel he can go back and fix all that! Duh.
just in case here is the important linky
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27371
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I stand corrected guru-666, now to sit back and wait for all the Amiga goodies to materialise...
yay!
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@coldfish
Maybe Starke only needs go back to 2002, when Bill McEwen published an update newsletter that said it "was just around the corner".
@Starke. back then, 2,500 was an optimistic number of untis to sell. I've no idea if they acheived that limited run. 5000 was hopeful. 10,000 would have been wonderful. 50,000 well... I don't see 10,000 Amiga users on *all* the Amiga sites. Let alone the 50,000 that Amiga Inc hinted would have been enough to have a major retailer come on board.
Whats different now? An even smaller community of Amiga users.
Anyway, still waiting for you to answer some questions from earlier.
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Just some thoughts about the amiga and it's future.
Just for a start: I'm an old amiga fan that actually want to buy a new one if it ever comes for sale and can survive in the marked nowadays.
Complaining about what Hyperion, Amiga and the other owners shall and shall not do, doesn't help that much. They'll anyhow do as they see fit.
----
My thought about the amiga and it's future is quite simple: It needs a market. You can't pay for the production, staff and marketing without somewhere to sell it and somebody to buy it. In the western world the Amiga is too weak and the position both software and hardware belongs to the giants.
Africa, South America and Asia is actually quite interesting - Where you actually can get a sale on the amiga based on it's strength... A life cyclus that can span over dekades without that the software demands an upgrade on the hardware every third year. What's just as important is to have software that are just as good as other systems have without bleeding the vallet (software like autocad, spread sheets, image manipulators etc)
Actually I think a cheap complete Amiga with a keyboard, mouse and availability to connect it to a tv and internet(so an expensive monitor is not needed) sold around 2-300 dollars would be quite the hit on those markets
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@paranah
Welcome to amiga.org.
do yourself a favor and before you jump in on this one, go back and read some of the other posts on this topic. (there are plenty) Nothing new here. (period)
Once you have a solid plan and some moeny then you can make a real press realese and tell us how you are going to introduce to asia (where they make modern pc's) the 20 year old amiga...
LOL.
to realy save the amiga you must get into some serious timetravel
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=27371
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So it only has to compete against the $100 laptop... which despite a lot of big backing hasn't been the fastest "innovation" to market.
And it needs some apps to run. And java/activeX compatibility. And the abillity to render .jpg and .pdf files. And to be honest word/opendoc compatibillity.
Its not so much the hardware anymore, as the abillity to access, display, and manipulate data.
Cheap hardware is great. But you need to be able to do something with it.
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I think that we (as westerner/americans) need to figure out how we are going to compeat with asia and india once they get there economy rolling, right now it looks like we are going to be the ones using ancent technology, unless we can turn this economy around, fast.
BTW according to bill McEwen, they are working on amiga OS in india right now.... ohh the times ther are a changing, and did I mention they are thinking of moving your job over there also.... jikes.
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(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/Cyberstorm604e/Stark.jpg)
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/Cyberstorm604e/Copyofterminator.jpg)
Naaaaaa! I still think it has already come back through time. It is an even more advanced Terminator that has come back from a future in which the Amiga fails. And its gonna save us all ;-)
A4000 Mad
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or that...LOL
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Yep I jumped a couple of pages =)(something to do with a download speed of 10 min per page).
I don't have that kind of money nor enough passion for it.
They do make a lot of pc's in asia but have you ever compared the price on the computer against your earnings?
An average Joe in example Thailand earns in a good job around 3-400 dollars a month. If you were in need of a computer, could you afford a computer system that would cost aprox. a half years salary on it and and the same computer would be obsolete after two and a half year plus the software needed another half a year's salary (with the same life span as the computer)?
As I stated, just some thoughts
- Peace & love -
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@Opposition:
@Alliance:
We should all work together here.
I have come to a slight conclusion on a topic discussed here,
I believe it is time to support AROS, they seem to be willing to read my email, unlike Amiga Inc who hasnt even touched it yet.
Either way, after reading up various sources on the net, Ive decided that our Amiga come back, may well rely on AROS more so than Amiga Inc. Also, I believe we could also support Hyperion, the Belgium company seems to be more intact and resposive to make things happen for Amiga.
Heres a link that got me thinking even further about AROS.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1076/amicomm.html
MAYBE:
In time and in future, we will be able to support Amiga inc also, when they start to listen, after many users that will be emailing them.
I am also trying to get Hyperion, not to fight and put out Amiga for good, but rather to either put Amiga Inc out for good and Buy the name and support the name along with AROS, and to let AROS continue on Amiga and Amiga's future.
While Im at it, Ive also come to realise other possibilties, which I will not post yet, as I dont want to get everyones hopes up yet, Until I get some more feedback.
Cheers 8-) 8-)
Your Amiga Man, and his buds, with some Amiga.org supporters, who shall try harder to succeed as the days go by.
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People:
You will probably alreay know these two sites, but I believe supporting them is supporting Amiga more so than Amiga inc. I have found out not to support Amiga inc, as they support bill gates, I DONT WANT THAT.
So support true AMigians, here they are:
http://aros.sourceforge.net/
http://entertainment.alinea-computer.de/seiten/spiele_uk.php
(the same site, different part)
http://www.alinea-computer.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=42_44&osCsid=981652242f9a68b1789f8b50a1a45470
Cheers.
8-) 8-)
I will keep you posted on things.
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Dear People,
I am sure most of you are aware of all these sites, if not, have a browse:
http://gurumeditation.se/
http://www.ggsdata.se/index-en.html
http://www.ggsdata.se/index-en.html
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/amiga-shop.php
http://bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com/index.php
(this one, if you read through this, no wonders we dont have OS4 fully yet, with all the gizmos, heres a line from what I read:
As great as the Amiga Community is and as generous as some of it's members truly are, there just are not enough people coming forward to purchase OS4 software that is still in the works or making donations to its development.)
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/
(I liked the Amiga network tab)
http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn?lp=de_en&&url=http://www.amigaspeed.de.vu
http://www.abime.net/
http://www.amigaworld.net/
http://utilitybase.com/
http://www.intuitionbase.com/
MMMmmmm, so much for the AMIGA community saying that the AMiga is totally dead, look at the websites I found in under 1 minute.
Just in case you guys didnt read the other section, I just thought Id let the Amiga people enjoy some of these sites.
Loads of stuff can be found on the net, and not all of the Amiga software and so on, is old and out of date totally, just most, but not all. So I think there is a chance even moreso now.
Cheers 8-) 8-)
And keep supporting your Amiga guys.
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This is the funniest dude I've seen on a.org, yet.
(No, DM wasn't funny)
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He means well.
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Hi Starke,
How old are u, dude ?
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@Starke
You need to take a deep sniff and smell what your shoveling :-D
Until i can place a order for OS4 it doesnt exist, I have 2 peg2's sat here which would be perfectly capable of running it if it wasn't for all the historical BS and a complete lack of interest fron Amiga inc.
If you want to get evangelical pour your efforts into AROS, they need your help and money, and its something which exists (i can download it and run it). Maybe you could learn to code and knock up a 68k emulation layer for the it?? It would at least keep you quiet for a bit :-)
Gaz
http://www.lincsamiga.org.uk
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by iamaboringperson on 2007/1/30 8:54:34
This is the funniest dude I've seen on a.org, yet.
(No, DM wasn't funny)
Was he the guy who used to spam everywhere and talk about some bit of hardware being the best ever, and then came back and had a new account name and was pretending to be someone else but was spamming everywhere again?
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If any of you still want another place to get Amiga merchandise:
http://software.alinea-computer.de/seiten/partner_uk.php
Cheers
8-) 8-)
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Guys,
With respect, this thread has gone on long enough. There is no reason for it's continuance now that everyone has expressed their opinions. Now it's just down to apparently expressing the oblivious and -- for whatever reason -- posting links to other sites.
Locked.
Wayne