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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: lionstorm on June 04, 2003, 10:08:30 AM

Title: kickstart3.5
Post by: lionstorm on June 04, 2003, 10:08:30 AM
Hi all,
I found on emuchina a kickstart3.5. I thought latest is 3.1. Will I get any benefit over my KS3.1/amigaOS3.9 ?
Lio
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: lionstorm on June 04, 2003, 10:19:33 AM
ok I found it myself : it is a fake, kickstart 3.5 was never released, and if so would work on walker prototype only.
Lio
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: lorddef on June 04, 2003, 10:19:46 AM
It'll just be an image of the patched version of 3.1, 3.5 patched the 3.1 rom on boot, hence the reeboot during a first boot in os 3.5.

I doubt it'd help, although a similar version of the 3.9 patched rom might speed up boot times...
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: xeron on June 04, 2003, 10:19:50 AM
This is 1 of 3 things:

1) A ROM that has been mislabeled by someone who doesn't know about Amiga Kickstarts

2) A 3.1 ROM that has been patched with the 3.5 ROM modules

3) Junk :-)
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: Thomas on June 04, 2003, 10:52:01 AM

You cannot patch a ROM file with the OS3.5 modules. There is not enough space in the ROM chip for all the new modules.

This "Kickstart 3.5" ist quite old. It is a fake, a 3.1 ROM with version numbers patched. And a virus perhaps.

Bye,
Thomas
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: xeron on June 04, 2003, 11:18:20 AM
Quote

You cannot patch a ROM file with the OS3.5 modules. There is not enough space in the ROM chip for all the new modules.


Not technically true; I suggest you consult the BlizKick docs :-) on my Amiga 4000, I use BlizKick to boot a pre-patched "Kickstart 3.9" image, with a couple of BlizKick module extras.

Quote

This "Kickstart 3.5" ist quite old. It is a fake, a 3.1 ROM with version numbers patched. And a virus perhaps.


Yeah, I doubted it would be anything useful.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 04, 2003, 11:32:32 AM
Quote
Not technically true; I suggest you consult the BlizKick docs  on my Amiga 4000, I use BlizKick to boot a pre-patched "Kickstart 3.9" image, with a couple of BlizKick module extras.


Gimme, Gimme, Gimme!! ;-)
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: xeron on June 04, 2003, 12:18:45 PM
Quote

mdma wrote:
Gimme, Gimme, Gimme!! ;-)


*tschh* you should know better than that! Download BlizKick and read the docs
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: Thomas on June 04, 2003, 02:37:51 PM
Quote

Not technically true; I suggest you consult the BlizKick docs  on my Amiga 4000, I use BlizKick to boot a pre-patched "Kickstart 3.9" image, with a couple of BlizKick module extras.


I suggest you consult the BlizKick docs yourself, it describes very detailed why it is not possible to create a patched ROM chip from all the new modules.

Of course, because BlizKick loads all ROM and patches into RAM, you can use as much storage as you want for BlizKick's image. There is an extra parameter you need to set in order to use more memory than the 512KB a Kickstart ROM chip has (and needs).

IIRC the BlizKick docs also was the place where was described why it is so difficult to make a new Kickstart ROM out of all the improvements added to new OS versions. It is much easiser to just unstall some reset-proof modules like BlizKick does.

Bye,
Thomas
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: olegil on June 04, 2003, 02:51:01 PM
Quote

Thomas wrote:

You cannot patch a ROM file with the OS3.5 modules. There is not enough space in the ROM chip for all the new modules.


No, but there is room for what is important, the rest can be loaded from disk.

I'm running kickstart 3.9 on my A1200. I haven't burned it to a flashrom yet, because I never have enough time for all my projects. But the image works fine in UAE and on real Amigas.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 04, 2003, 03:01:01 PM
I would love to get a patched ROM up and going for my WinUAE setup here.  Ever since my A3000/CSPPC died, I've wanted to try this but could not find a way to make it work.  So far I've tried what is mentioned in the BlizKick docs (got the Rom Update broken out into separate files), but the applypatch program won't apply them to the rom image.  How did you get it to work?
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: KennyR on June 04, 2003, 03:36:36 PM
I would say that emulators don't really need the enhanced routines in a patched ROM much. In fact the emulator is probably more stable without them.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 04, 2003, 03:44:30 PM
They do if you are booting from an old HD that was set up originally on a real Amiga, with all those hardware limitations.  :-)

As it is I'm running OS3.9 (with BoingBag2) installed.  Even though it may not need some of that stuff, it still does a reboot to load a lot of the ROM patches from the update.  If possible I'd like to get rid of that requirement by loading a patched ROM directly instead.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: MikesterBrau on June 04, 2003, 04:21:30 PM
   I believe that last "official" Kickstart  ROM was 3.2 and it was only in the Walker and never released to the public.  The 3.2 rom was 1 1MB chip rather than 2 512k chips and had support for 1 extra custom chip (forgot the name) and had a slight fix for larger hard drives  (4gb partitions and 9GB overall size) and an improved Setpatch, as well as a cdrom file system (borrowed and modified from cd32) and the frame work for a future super IO type setup.  I think after all was said and done only 16k was left to load anything from software (rom space wise).   Feel free to correct me if I am a bit off but that is what I recall.  :)
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: xeron on June 04, 2003, 05:53:29 PM
Quote

Thomas wrote:
I suggest you consult the BlizKick docs yourself, it describes very detailed why it is not possible to create a patched ROM chip from all the new modules.


Ummm... so what? I'm not talking about a ROM chip, i'm talking about a ROM image, which is just a file on a disk.

Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 05, 2003, 01:07:50 AM
Well, so far no answers.  I do have the Developer CD 2.1, and should have the 3.9 update for it.  Maybe there is something in there that will do this?
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 05, 2003, 03:09:12 AM
Hmm, couldn't find squat on the developer CD.  :-/

Anybody have any ideas on what I can do to make this work?
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 06, 2003, 02:34:10 PM
So, anybody have any ideas?
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: xeron on June 06, 2003, 03:19:09 PM
Quote

DWolfman wrote:
 but the applypatch program won't apply them to the rom image.  How did you get it to work?


What I did (I *think*, this was ages ago), was use BlizKick to load a normal KS3.1 image, and apply all the OS3.9 patches and modules I wanted using EXTRESBUF to create extra space. IIRC, BlizKick has an option to save the new ROM it creates back out to disk, and thats what I used.

I think thats what I did, anyway. It was ages ago now. It doesn't really help if you use WinUAE, though.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 06, 2003, 05:23:24 PM
Quote

Tickly wrote:
What I did (I *think*, this was ages ago), was use BlizKick to load a normal KS3.1 image, and apply all the OS3.9 patches and modules I wanted using EXTRESBUF to create extra space. IIRC, BlizKick has an option to save the new ROM it creates back out to disk, and thats what I used.

I think thats what I did, anyway. It was ages ago now. It doesn't really help if you use WinUAE, though.


Hmm, too bad I don't have an A1200 with a Blizzard card in it.  :-/

There has to be some way to do this without a Blizzard setup.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: Piru on June 06, 2003, 06:41:19 PM
Quote
What I did (I *think*, this was ages ago), was use BlizKick to load a normal KS3.1 image, and apply all the OS3.9 patches and modules I wanted using EXTRESBUF to create extra space. IIRC, BlizKick has an option to save the new ROM it creates back out to disk, and thats what I used.

This won't work, I'm afraid. The EXTRESBUF is outside the ROM image itself. Modules placed on EXTRES area are not saved to the image.

There is no way to get the EXTRES modules included in the 512K image.

Only the modules that can be applypatch'ed make it to the ROM Image.

For further details, see BlizKick.guide.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: iamaboringperson on June 07, 2003, 01:20:36 AM
a new kickstart was one reason i bought 3.5 - and certainly the reason i didnt buy 3.9

before i bought 3.5 i read that amiga inc. would produce a new kickstart for '3.6' ONLY if there were enough sales of 3.5, i bought 3.5, there were enough sales
and 3.9(!) was released with no ROM!

so i was diapointed, and will probably never buy 3.9
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 09, 2003, 09:21:44 PM
So I guess nobody has any ideas?  :-/
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: Mad-Matt on June 09, 2003, 09:31:13 PM
It deepends on the card you have. for 040/060 Apollo boards theirs RemApollo.

For others it may be possable to use "LoadModules"
which is part of the MMULib package (assuming ya card has an MMU).

I use Blizzkick myself so havent tried the above solutions,  but maybe worth looking at.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: Mad-Matt on June 09, 2003, 09:34:53 PM
Quote
a new kickstart was one reason i bought 3.5 - and certainly the reason i didnt buy 3.9


Thats your loss im affraid, OS39 is what OS35 should have been and i wish i hadnt baught os35 and just waited another year ;)

An updated kickstart wasnt really neccessary, the rom update on first boots works like a charm making the expense of producing new kickstarts totaly pointless.
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: xeron on June 09, 2003, 09:47:43 PM
Quote

This won't work, I'm afraid. The EXTRESBUF is outside the ROM image itself. Modules placed on EXTRES area are not saved to the image.

There is no way to get the EXTRES modules included in the 512K image.


Hmm... I must be going mad. I was absolutely sure I had created a 3.9 pre-patched image that was >512Kb, but I just checked, and I'm not using one. Weird. I don't know where I got that idea from tbh. :-?
Title: Re: kickstart3.5
Post by: on June 10, 2003, 01:55:58 PM
@Madd-Matt

I don't have a card, I'm running my old Amiga setup through WinUAE (booting straight off the old HD).  All I need to be able to do is come up with a Kickstart ROM image that has all the modules (or as many as I can get) in it that I need for this setup.  Thing is there doesn't seem to be any readily-available ROM module manipulation programs out there.  Sure there are programs to load them resident at boot time, but that's not what I'm after.

@Tickly

Hmm, maybe it isn't possible then.  This is starting to look a bit bleak.  :-(

Say, I just remembered something.  The other day I noticed a file on Aminet for making a FlashROM module that plugs into an A500.  It's designed to have 1 MB of space on it (don't worry, the docs explained it and it is possible to have more than a 512KB ROM in any Amiga, as it was done that way for at least one model).  What I did notice is it mentioned that anything could be loaded into that second half-meg, including reboot-resident modules like the OS3.5/3.9 ones.  I wonder if anything like this could be possible with WinUAE?