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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: da9000 on January 13, 2007, 12:32:25 AM

Title: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on January 13, 2007, 12:32:25 AM
First of all this is a good place to start:

http://www.freewebs.com/computolio/amiga_floppy_compatibility.html

Now my findings (which in some cases differ from the page above, which is a GOOD thing as it brings everyone hope: when they say "NO", I say "YES", because it does work!):


* NOTE: "swapped cable" means you have to swap wire lines 2 and 34 at the end of the cable (part that connects to the floppy). Also something I forgot before but Castellen's site reminded me: make sure the 34 way cable is wired "straight" and doesn't have a twist in wires 10 to 16 (like most PC floppy cables do)
* NOTE: short == close == connected == jumper is put between the pins. unshorted == open == disconnected == jumper is NOT put between the pins
* NOTE: even if a drive works, it doesn't mean it will fit (mechanically) in the existing Amiga cases. You'll have to get your hands dirty for fixing that issue...
* NOTE: all these drives function as low density. According to the link above (and experimentation), it's not possible for most of them (almost all) to work as Amiga high density drives, due to the spinning speed which the Amiga uses, which is 150RPMs for high density drives


TEAC - FD-235HF4240 - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Align your drive so that the jumpers start with A at the bottom of your screen, and E at the top. As you're looking at them, the left column is named "2" and the right is "1". You want to short D2+C2, B2+A2

Epson - SMD300 - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
You want to short 14+15, 1+2, 4+5

Mitsumi - D359T2 - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
You want to short "DS0", "SW" but leave "OUT" open

Mitsumi - D359T3 - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
You want to short "DS0", "SW" but leave "OUT" open

Mitsumi - D359T6 - NO it doesn't work!
--------------------------------------------------------------
It might be doable, because there are jumper pads on it, but I've not played with it yet

Sony - MP-F73W-01D - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
You want to toggle the switch to position "0" (zero), which happens to be towards the back of the drive

Sony - MPF520-D - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Align your drive so that jumpers 1 and 4 are at the bottom of your screen, and 3 and 6 at the top. As you're looking at them, the left column has "1" "2" "3" and the right has "4" "5" "6". You want to short 4+5

Sony - MP-F17W-2Z - YES it works! (with swapped cable)
--------------------------------------------------------------
You want to toggle the switch to position "0" (zero), which happens to be towards the back of the drive


Good luck! Amiga forever! :-D

PS. One day I'll make a nice web page for it with images and much more comprehensive
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: zefiro on January 13, 2007, 03:50:19 AM
Good news, thanks for the infos !  :-)
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on January 13, 2007, 04:13:51 AM
You're welcome! I'll try to add more if I have any other floppy drives I've not tried. If you have any you want to add, feel free to send me a private message and I'll add it to the end of the list as well.

Eventually (time permitting) I'd like to do much more, like I said before: web page, photos on "how to", and also cable "how to", and finally (way in the future) tinkering around to see if I can get any PC high density floppy drive to at least read an Amiga high density disk, somehow...
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: orange on January 13, 2007, 06:03:34 AM
that has been on aminet for ages..


also discussed to death (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23514)

 :roll:

it wont work with HD so easy
and you forgot to mention using diode to get RDY signal
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: delshay on January 13, 2007, 06:25:29 PM
iv just mod a mitsumi floppy it has a built in card reader
done it two days ago now fitted to a1200d ...

but what piss me off i did not need to do the mod all the time i had the hardware that converts **any** PC floppy..


it plug into the back of the floppy drive & has jumpers as well a chip to controll everything even high density on some floppy drive...

NOTE: there are two models iv got both models..
one has floppy drive on top of card reader, the other floppy on bottom..



Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: zefiro on January 13, 2007, 07:58:50 PM
Quote

orange wrote:
that has been on aminet for ages..


also discussed to death (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23514)

 :roll:

it wont work with HD so easy
and you forgot to mention using diode to get RDY signal



    :-o

Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: TjLaZer on January 13, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
How are you "swapping cable" ?  I did not have to swap any cables at all on the Teac FD-235HF drives... just set jumper settings, works 100%.  But not all FD-235HF drives work, only the earlier models. (with all the jumpers blocks)
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: delshay on January 14, 2007, 12:11:48 AM
iv just found out what the cct board is ( AMTRADE THE REAL FLOPPY FIX ) see it at http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=381
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on January 14, 2007, 03:18:55 AM
@orange:

Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be done. And I also never said it would be easy. Anyways, like I said, it's way in the future, so no sense talking about it.

As for the "diode to get RDY signal", I don't know anything about it. Care to give some links? I'm no expert and neither do I profess to be, but I'm certainly a fast learner :)


@delshay:

Can you please re-word what you're saying? I can't understand it, but it sounds interesting. Something about a floppy with a built-in card-reader (MMC/SD/CF/etc??) and something about a chip you plug in the back of the drive to make it work as HD? AHA, I now see what you were talking about. Of course I also think this might be a rather rare item...


@TjLaZer:

The "swapped cable" is described at the top of the post: basically swapping 2 lines, not the cable itself. As for the Teac drives I gave a very precise model #, and for that, at least as far as I recall, I _had_ to use the swapped cable, else it didn't work. There are many variants of these drives, as you alluded, so perhaps some didn't need it.
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on January 14, 2007, 07:29:45 AM
One blatant omission from all this is a mention of "disk change checking" or lack there of on PC drives. The Amiga drives check for disk changes and they automatically updated the OS about it. PC drives don't do that by default, so one way to solve the problem is to use the diskchange command: diskchange df0:

More floppy drive info from my favorite Amigan:
http://amiga.serveftp.net/FloppyConversion.html
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on January 14, 2007, 07:34:39 AM
One important addition that I forgot from the original post:

When talking about the floppy cables: make sure the 34 way cable is wired "straight" and doesn't have a twist in wires 10 to 16 (like most PC floppy cables do)
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: delshay on January 14, 2007, 09:33:18 AM
@da9000

iv being doing the floppy mod just over a week but lets make things clear..

1. see the link i posted yesterday...u plug this device in the back of a PC floppy drive it converts everythink for u even HD mode..

some drives do not work i think it got somethinh to do with some drives speed not set right..but iv learned u can ajusted this some where on the drive....

2. do a search under floppy cardreader its a MITSUMI has a built in card reader..there are two models

the one with the floppy drive at the bottom & card reader above the floppy is MORE likely to to work in HD mode.
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: delshay on January 14, 2007, 09:48:22 AM
@da9000

just to add..

the card reader needs a USB interface..

floppy standard 34 way cable..

iv think also found the RD signal on MITSUMI floppy drive no need for a diode it works fine here in my a1200D..


NOTE: i dont need to mod the drive,i have the device to do it for me.. im just doing the mod to see how it works..

WARNING: the drive is not easy to put back together iv broken one drive already...iv also not started any mods on other MITSUMI model the one with the floppy above the card reader..try this drive at your own risk or wait until iv done the mod..
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: nyder on January 15, 2007, 03:54:49 AM
These just work as HD floppies, correct?  You can't use them to read or write Amiga 880kb, correct?

If i found one these drives that work, would I be able to use it on my A1000 so I can read files from my pc?

thanks

Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on January 16, 2007, 01:41:49 AM
@nyder:

What I wrote (initially) is for getting an "880KB" drive into your Amiga, by using a PC high density drive. I've not managed to get a PC high density drive to behave as an Amiga high density drive. Not yet.

What delshay is using is an elecronic card (red in color and it seems to come with certain tower conversion kits, I think those from Elbox), which will allow said PC high density drives to ALSO be used as Amiga high density drives (1760KB). He's also talking about having found a floppy drive that contains also a built-in flash memory card reader, and said drive can be used with Amigas without a "RDY line diode hack", of which I've not heard.

There's also the "Catweasel" solution for both PCs and Amigas. Search for it on www.amiga-hardware.com or amiga.resource.cx elsewhere.

Hope this all makes sense? If not, ask away :)
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: delshay on January 22, 2007, 09:50:58 AM
@da9000

im not useing the interface,iv open up the floppy drive & re-wired the drive it-self.

as for the RDY sig theres soldering pad on the main floppy drive cct board which gos to the controller chip & it works perfect..


all iv left to do is getting the drive to work in HD mode..

the floppy drive im talking about has the floppy on the bottom & card reader above..


** do not get the one with floppy drive above the card reader do at your own risk..

the drive with the floppy on the bottom has a few soldering pads a few options to config it.

if u fit this drive in a A1200D u have to glue two nuts on the inner side of the drive **before** puttiing it back togeter..


***** all mods at your own risk ***
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: Chain on January 22, 2007, 12:46:11 PM
Mitsumi - D359T6 and T5 needs soldering but works great.
We are collecting some infos too:

http://amiga.probers.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=129
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: delshay on January 22, 2007, 02:52:52 PM
iv read somewhere i forgot which website,that the RDY sig is on almost every drive,its just not marked on some drives..
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: da9000 on March 08, 2007, 03:03:56 AM
@Chain:

could you please translate the important stuff from that site? I'm curious to know, but no Czech reading ability here :(

Thanks
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: weirdami on March 08, 2007, 06:14:51 AM
Any info on Epson SMD-1300?
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: melange on March 08, 2007, 10:12:23 AM
Exactly what kind of testing have you done with those drives?
It's one thing to see a disk icon on Workbench, but have you tried opening a copy program and copying from a known working drive to the modded drive?  Copy back the other way again?  Formatting and filling the disk up?
Booting from a NDOS game floppy disk?

I have played about with lots of drives, and whilst I found lots that looked like they worked, after heavy testing I found some drives didn't really work exactly like an Amiga floppy drive should.

With the pin 2 <---> 34 swap in place, and the diode from DF1's Pin 1 RDY signal to (Pin 10?) on the cable, you can get a lot of drives to function.  But only a few really fully work.
I was fiddling with one the other day, I could copy and delete files, I could insert disk see an icon and watch it disappear when I removed the disk and I could format, but if I opened a program like Xcopy, it would tell me that there was no disk in the drive.  Wouldn't matter what I did.

A better solution I believe is this...

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/downloads.html

look at amega.jpg and amega2.jpg.

I havn't tried yet myself, but I'm going to soon.
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: orange on March 08, 2007, 11:40:02 AM
Xcopy (and NDOS) didnt work because of RDY, check the diode..
..or make a real READY signal using simple boards from aminet/hard/hack
Title: Re: IBM PC (clone/compatible) floppy drives which WORKED in my Amigas
Post by: Tomas on March 08, 2007, 07:38:38 PM
Thanks alot for the link and list. Gonna print out that so i know what to look for the next time i dig a bit at my electronic recycling center