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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: kvasir on January 09, 2007, 08:02:16 PM
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Hello all. I have been dwelling on the possiblilty of an Amiga laptop at my rather boring 10-hour shift job, and was wondering what all would be needed. I have an Amiga 600 which has been banged up pretty badly, though the mobo works fine. I recall there was a website somebody wrote on how to do this, but I rarely have time to google it. (And I think I have enough time for this project), anyway, I have a few ???'s about what I would need. I know I'll need a ntsc/pal scandoubler, a mouse adapter, and a keyboard adapeter, as well as an old laptop with the pcmcia slot in the right location. (I know a vintage computer shop in Madison that can provide a junk laptop, I'll just have to give them a call when I know what I need) I believe I'll need laptop specific pinouts for the lcd display inputs, ps/2 or serial mouse (Touchpad/ joustick thingy stuck in the middle of "ghyb" keys, trackball, etc...) and the power supply specs of the laptop. Also, I'll probably want an external floppy drive for the Ami, I think Amigakit still sells those, even in HD. Plus alot of solder and profanity-proof company when I'm putting this thing together. :-D Unfortunatly, I think I'll need 3.1 roms and an apollo 030 to make the system usable beyond its stock os 2.1 1mb chipram config. I think Amigakit also sells 3.1 roms and the 3.9 cd, though I'm guessing I'll also need an adapter for the ide cd-rom. A wireless pcmcia card would be nice, too. Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is perhaps a list of feasable laptop models that would work for this, and any other hints/ advise on such a project? (not a coincidence I'm planning this around tax return time. :-D) I've been using UAE + winXP for my portable Amiga needs, but it somehow lacks the same charm as original Amiga hardware. (OK, I have issues) Plus I like to be a bit quirky. (I've run UAE on my laptop while running pc-task win95 on my 1200 when I've had LOTS of free time...) Any advise would be appreciated, thanks in advance!
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It can be done. Check out Ben Hecks homemade Atari portables.
My suggestions:
-Stick with 68000 and use optimised software
-Get 1 MB extra ram
-Use a Compact flash harddrive
-Use a small TV/monitor then you do not need scandoubler
-KB and mouse converters are available
Problem areas:
-The case, if you want a thin case, get ready for lots of problems fitting this in an old laptop case
-If you decide to make a laptop case yourself get ready for lots of work
-Find out what kind of batteries a stock A600 can run on for at least 3 hours and see how many cells you need. Battery technology have come a long way since 1991. Also you can use a mini-ITX atx pico PSU, you feed the PSU with 12 v and it takes care of splitting 12 to 5v, gnd, 12v and so on.
Lots of work and probably even more work if you want to end up with a good looking solution. But it is definitely doable!
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ben heckendorn is the coolest guy in the whole freakin planet.
i would say definitely do it. ben used a lcd tv for his atari 8bit portable. he used sony psone screens for most of his portables but thats probably too small for what you want too.
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Sounds like an awesome project! Go for it!
And how about starting a thread with a worklog? (If that's permitted here) Would be awesome to witness the process :)
I wouldn't mind posting a worklog with my A1200 PPC+PCI tower project, either. Whenever I get started, that is... :-)
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Remember Suzanne
Suzanne (http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/suzanne.html)
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there is many diffrent sizes for older laptops, i hope you find one you could just reuse. these suitcase boxes are ugly..
________
STRAIN INDEX (http://strainindex.com)
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Make your own case dude. Probably get a better fit that way. Have you seen the work that guy does making atari laptops, he even did an xbox 360 case, all his stuff was custom and pretty slick.
http://www.benheck.com/
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If you're thinking of using an A600, then you obviously don't care about AGA. If that's the case, why don't you try to get in touch with Dennis and make your own laptop MiniMig? It would probably be less work than using an A600 (smaller motherboard, more compatible with modern hardware, etc).
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mpiva wrote:
If you're thinking of using an A600, then you obviously don't care about AGA. If that's the case, why don't you try to get in touch with Dennis and make your own laptop MiniMig? It would probably be less work than using an A600 (smaller motherboard, more compatible with modern hardware, etc).
Thats an awsome idea. A portable minimig, thats one of the best ideas ive heard in a long time. You have stumbled on a good idea there mpiva.
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wow. didn't think I'd get this kind of response, thanks for the advise, all! :-) Anyway, it was suzzane that I first heard of, and thats one link of the links I was looking for. :-D Lots to consider... I'll probably charge up the 'ol digital camera, and upload pics to my site, link 'em here as I go on this little project. Thinking I'm going to stick to an older laptop case, seems a bit easier to deal with. Also, I remember something on either Amigakit or Software hut that converts the a600 clockport into an A1200 compatible one. I was wondering if this would would work with the old M-tek 68030 accelerator I have lying around from before my 1260 upgrade? That might work better than an apollo accelerator. Also thinking of slapping a Graffiti card in there for playing Doom, Gloom, etc.... Anyway, this is all on hold until I get my tax refund. (Lots of money back... newborn baby this year!) Anyway, g2g to work now... Need to pay for all my Amiga stuff somehow...
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koaftder wrote:
Have you seen the work that guy does making atari laptops, he even did an xbox 360 case, all his stuff was custom and pretty slick.
Heh! The XBox 360 laptop looks like it was a project and a half! Fantastic-looking end result though!
- Ali
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An A600 laptop looks relatively simple, if the right parts are obtained. Definately want to try and use the same screen method Ben Heckendorn uses for his Atari laptops.
You could remove the 23 pin connector entirely, and wire directly to the holes. Ditch the RF adapter, and replace it with an S-Video connector with a Neobitz (mine just shipped today... I'll assemble and test it, and post my results soon) if I find it works. Thus display AND video output would be awesome.
Definately yank the RCA connectors for the sound, and replace with a stereo mini jack.
Yank the power plug, and replace it with an internal 12V input power supply... Thus utilizing 12V battery power as well as a 12V external power supply, instead of that bulky Commodore one.
The mouse would take a little doing, but I'm sure something could be hacked. A PS/2 trackpad uncased adapted via a Cocolino adapter hard wired.
The rest of the board is already layed out in excellent design for a custom case. Original keyboard would work well. Even takes 2.5" hard drives. Plenty of slimline CDROM drives out now, Mini-ITX spec et, al.
My only question is, can an A600 boot from the external floppy drive? If so, you could leave the internal one out of the design, and get one made for a CD32 or something.
Honestly, the hardest part of any of this is the casework.
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You know, a thought just occured to me... This would all probably be ALOT simpler using a CD32 motherboard, along with a SX-32 expansion.
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yes, A600 and any amiga with KS2+ can boot from external floppy
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There are many problems you must overcome:
1) Inherent size problems even using the A600 motherboard
2) Lots of electronics you will need to make to interface to the LCD panel and the battery power supply
3) How slow a 68000 Amiga is (man it is!!)
4) How expensive and hot 68020/030 accelerators are for the A600
5) How crap ECS workbench looks
A more practical solution would be a software one. See if an x86 laptop that boots directly into E-UAE will meet your needs?
If you go for the REAL Amiga solution, I implore you to consider using a CD32 as the base motherboard to solve 3 out of 5 of the above problems.
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Would like to make a CD32 laptop myself, I am getting stuck on how to power the motherboard with laptop batteries though, is there a website of battery specifications because as I understand it you need +5v and +12v and ground on the CD32. Will also need preferably a scart modification to the board to power a 14 or 15 inch LCD TV screen.
Sadly I am no electronics wizzard to overcome the above two problems and also there is the issue of once the donor laptop motherboard is removed then the charging circuit for the battery is also scuppered so thats the 3rd problem I have.
It's definately do-able though, the Amiga's are so efficient and low power compared to even most pentium laptops that I can see it's a case of just adding the extra functionality. And the CD32 being the most compact (if a little crippled) of the motherboards with AGA would be an ideal start. There is always the possibility of getting a dead 17inch laptop to use the A1200 board with but then you will need a Widescreen 17inch slim TV LCD to take the RGB signal and add the CD drive aswell so that would be more expensive, too expensive as a hobby thing?
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alexh wrote:
2) Lots of electronics you will need to make to interface to the LCD panel and the battery power supply
That's true. I had plans to build one of those C64 DTV's into an old laptop I had (imagine a state-of-the-art looking C64 laptop?) but when I started investigating the monitor connections, I discovered that I needed a doctor's degree in electronics to hotwire it. Not surprisingly, I quickly abandoned the project.
5) How crap ECS workbench looks
Objection, your honour!
I love the way the original Workbench looks. Blue, white, black and some orange. You recognize it miles away, as opposed to a Mac or Windows lookalike AGA WB.
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There was a great drop shadow hack for WB 1.3 in the old days, looked fantastic to me :-)
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@alexh
Yeah, unfortunatly the a600 is a bit limitid gfx wise. If I can find a big enough case, I could possibly rig an old graffiti card in there somehow. though I don't think there's rtg drivers for it. Though I kinda liked the old magicwb style, would stick with that after a 3.1 rom upgrade. Not sure about heat issues with the 020/030, though. I think a cpu fan might work, if it would drain the battery. Could rig a thermocouple to it, though. I suppose a cd32 would work better, but I would need to come accross one somehow, and I would actually rather keep that as is, for my tv. :-D electronics aren't really a big issue (I got a cold heat soldering iron for x-mas, and have been dying for a chance to use it :-D) Though it could be frustrating enough to have to buy a dictionary of cuss-words to enhance my preferred technical stress relieve method... The only concern I have are the pinouts for the lcd panel, mouse, and keyboard so I can rig them up to a scandoubler/coclinco etc... The power supply can probably be easily figured out with a multimeter. Also, if the laptop has a cd-rom installed already, (probably IDE) the only adapter I know of that works converts the 2.5" ide port into 1 2.5" for the hd, and 2 3.5" for hdd's and cdroms, etc... the wiring to convert it back could be rough.... Also, need a boing ball sticker for the case, and a nice no-smoking style transparent sticker for whatever windows logo might already be on the case. I already have a winxp laptop with uae installed, but I don't really like it too much. It's useful, but seems kind of kludgy to me. (Not that an a600 wouldn't be, but its certainly different :-D)
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skurk wrote:
alexh wrote:
2) Lots of electronics you will need to make to interface to the LCD panel and the battery power supply
That's true. I had plans to build one of those C64 DTV's into an old laptop I had (imagine a state-of-the-art looking C64 laptop?) but when I started investigating the monitor connections, I discovered that I needed a doctor's degree in electronics to hotwire it.
I bough a small LCD screen not that long ago for a project. It had composite input, so it should be possible to connect an A600 to it (they do have composite out don't they? I can't remember if my A600 did, and I can't be bothered to look it up :-P )
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There is a new laptop component standard from Intel: "Common Building Block".
Perhaps Dennis, Jens S. or other can create Laptop motherboard based on FPGA. For Input/Output, they can use UWB Wireless USB: detachable keyboard, mouse, audio, LAN, HDTV/Digital TV output etc.
Another idea is using USB dongle with PC laptop, similar to Project Blackdog (Virtex FPGA with PowerPC 405).
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I remember some laptops being extra long, with the screen hinged somewhere in the middle of the case. Do this with a large enough case, and some creative wiring, you could make one from an A4000CR... AGA, 68030/25MHz 16M Fast, 2M Chip... You'd have a long case, so there's plenty of footprint for drives, batteries, signal converters, the works!
Hmm... I'm liking this idea. Wouldn't be small, but it'd be top of the line! And you wouldn't have to worry about the connections to expansion cards (CPU cards, memory cards, etc), since everything's built on to the board.
Would NOT recomend using a CPU board tho, since anyone with A4000 experience knows how flaky that connector is. Definately stick with the CR board with the 030 built in.
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Look at this:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=53
But be warned: it IS the PSU the original external one.... :boohoo:
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http://www.amiga600.de/
Ultimate 600 clocking and hacking site, including USB, Apollo, cooling, 10GB HDD (Now obsolete for Amigas, use a Microdrive at 8GB or if larger is needed, an iPod drive: They all connect to an ATA bus.
Remember that this isn't a notebook motherboard, so the power drain of the system will probably be severe. You MIGHT get away with a modern battery (Typically around 5000mAh at 10.8V) Although you'll have to come up with the wiring.
As far as screens go, laptop panels are a no go. You simply cannot interface them to the motherboard. Portable game LCD panels are usually OK, (PS1 screens are small but popular) as they are composite connected.
A1200 and A600 have compatible keyboard interfaces so it should be possible to adapt an Amiga 1200 kbd-PS2 adaptor to an Amiga 600, and use a PS/2 Mini-keyboard as the keyboard for an Amiga Portable.
I did alot of research on this in my early teens, if you hadn't noticed. My "Tomato" amiga never quite got finished, but I still have all the components in a box somewhere.
Yes, you can use the stock Amiga 600 keyboard but the keys are kinda chunkay.
Don't bother with an internal CDROM. It's honestly not worth the hassle. PCMCIA CD drives are cheap enough, and if you manage to add your networking over USB, then your PCMCIA is free for you to play with.
I'm pretty sure an A600 with a hard disk will be fine as far as booting with no FDD installed goes, if there is a problem, aminet hardware hacks or Amiga600.de will have the fix.
The 1200 board is a much better board for use in a portable system. I recommend you use it instead if you can get one. The compatibility with CF, PCMCIA etc is as good or better than the 600, AOS 3.9 is more compatible with it, you also have AGA support and a decent upgrade path to speed up your Amiga a bit. The glue-on clocking boards are a PITA. Finally, on the note of the A1200 board, the A600 keyboard works connected to the 1200 slot, I tried it once as an experiment while designing tomato. Serial Trackpads are rare but available, there's one in my design. a driver exists on Aminet.
The Susanne was amazing at the time, but hardwarehas come along way, and with relatively cheap and common modern components, a reasonable Amiga portable can be built. Just use the 1200 as a base. :)
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Jesus, this kid has got some big conkers, if he`s gona really do it!
I`ll be listening and watching with great interest :sealed:
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To make an Amiga laptop would cost about 200-300 depending on how much stuff you have and take a lot time. I also don't know how long it would run from the battery.
To have an Amiga laptop would be cool it wouldn't be useful as my Mac Book Which is why I'm not going to make it just at the moment but if anyone finds the list useful I'd like to see an Amiga laptop one day
Amiga laptop how to
What you need
1 Amiga 600
1 Universal 120W Silent PSU and DC Converter Kit (http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=10)
1 Amiga RGB to VGA Monitor Adapter (http://amigakit.com/)
High Capacity External Universal Li-ion Battery Pack (http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html)
(note: any battery will do as long as it gives you the right power output.)
1 15" TFT Screen that takes a 12V power supply
Options ( to make to any good)
1 AMIGA PCMCIA WIRELESS CARD (http://amigakit.com/)
1 Kickstart 3.1 ROM (http://amigakit.com/)
1 AmigaOS 3.1(http://amigakit.com/)
1 Slim line CD-ROM
Follow the instructions from here ( http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_Power_supplies/body_amiga_power_supplies.html) to connect the ATX power supply to your Amiga.
Use the second hard drive connector to connect the monitor power. If its 12V the it should be easy.
Next job is to build a case any way you want.
I suggest putting the main-board on the back of the monitor and then Putting the power supply and battery below the keyboard.
The main-board needs to go behind the monitor due to the keyboard being so thick. You could if you wanted re-wire the keyboard and use smaller keys but its a lot work.
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Join the crowd...lol
I think we would all want one ..
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Does my AROS (native) laptop count? :inquisitive:
Dammy
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Funny to see this thread resurface... It inspired my recent research into CNC routers. I will have one built soon, then I can start working on building a laptop case :-D
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Actually, I've been looking for older laptop cases. I know this guy in Madison, who refurbishes old computers, and gets alot of older laptops, with the pcmcia slot in the right spot. The only thing I'm really worried about is proprietary connections for the lcd display, keyboard, etc... Though I'm thinking playing with a multimeter and a soldering iron might get me around to that. If he gets one in with a fried mobo, I can probably get it for 20 bucks or so.