Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: LP on May 25, 2003, 01:35:18 AM
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I'm pretty upset about ELBOX...
They have hardly noticed their customers about the usage of the PoseidonUSB software and from what I understand, Spider II from ELBOX does not work without this piece of software? I'm angry if this is true because it's going to cost me extra money (19,95 EUR) for me to use the spider usb card... I do not hope this is true... My (hopefully) twisted ideas came to me after I read the Review from SWAUG (http://www.swaug.freeserve.co.uk/spideriiusb.html) They proclaim that I HAVE to install the PoseidonUSB software before I can use the Spider II, is this true?
From the Poseidon homepage it says that ELBOX has been -=Not so nice=- to the author of the program... I do not want to get mixed up in their fight, just because I want to support the Amiga...
Can someone help me?
Background:
Review from SWAUG (http://www.swaug.freeserve.co.uk/spideriiusb.html),
The Poseidon Homepage (http://www.platon42.de/poseidon.html),
The News article from ELBOX about Spider II (http://www.elbox.com/news_03_04_08.html)
Please see under:
Package contents
· CD with Mediator and Amithlon EHCI (USB 2.0) drivers for Poseidon
In the article...
I'm fustrated about this...
HEEELP! :-?
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LP:
Unfortunately, this is the case. I don't have the details of their disagreement; although, I'm sure that someone will likely bring that topic up... The bottom line is that you will have to register Poseidon seperately from your Spider-II.
On the plus side, neither Elbox or Posiedon's author take their grudge out on the customer. They are both very helpful, even if they do not agree with one another.
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I'm also upset about Elbox, but people know this already.
The thing is, they don't state anywhere on their website or press releases that the Spider (2) does not include a licence for Poseidon. They hardly even say that it uses Poseidon. When you ask them about that, they just say that it didn't /fit/ in the press release for space reasons (?).
For me, this is a clear attempt to cause misinformation to the end user (who is then angry about it and its his good right to be so). Elbox gives the impression that the Spider is cheaper than other solutions, as the users don't see they have to spend some extra money for the registration. Quite a lot of money for buying the cheap PC cards and just sticking a new label on it.
Don't ask me how many support emails I received by people not knowing that an unregistered copy will stop working after a short time.
I am pissed about Elbox, and that won't change for a long time. However, Poseidon users are equally welcome.
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You do have to pay the registration fee for Poseidon seperately, but Elbox do make this pretty clear. I have a Spider I and highly recommend it, it's most excellent, it's a neat and clean USB solution, and if I remember rightly the price of a Spider + Poseidon isn't much different to a Subway USB card anyway. Plus Poseidon dead easy to register.
Get USB in your Amiga, you won't regret it!
P.S. I don't work for Elbox ;-)
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I've just sent ELBOX -support team a mail regarding this... I'll wait and see what they have to say...
@platon42
So... I can see I've got no other choice than buying your software (If i like the card)... But I must say that I totally disagree with the sitiuation as it is now, between you and ELBOX...
Though I understand you if you feel -pi**ed on- by ELBOX from what you have explained.
I'm NOT blaming you, and I'm NOT blaming ELBOX, because I don't know wich of your stories is true :-?
@every one :-)
I'm just saying that the sitiuation between you is one of the most bizzarre, I've ever experienced... Leaving the customer between you more or less confused...
And I do know that it's not going to change in the near future, so I really do hope it's true both sides have some good custommers-services to make the damage good again, so to speak...
Ehm.. Can't see if I've forgotten to include more bitchin' so I'll end here for now...
(@platon42: I can see this problem takes, alot of your sparetime, sorry to rob more of your time)
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@platon42
I'm also upset about Elbox, but people know this already.
And I'm upset about you. And it won't change until you give me back what I have paid you for.
The thing is, they don't state anywhere on their website or press releases that the Spider (2) does not include a licence for Poseidon.
Here is what is written on USB drivers in Elbox website (http://www.elbox.com/news_02_09_11B.html):
'Elbox Computer is pleased to announce that its drivers to PCI USB cards in the Mediator busboard operate under the Poseidon USB stack. These drivers have been prepared by Elbox programmers as a result of co-operation started a few weeks ago by Chris Hodges, author of the Poseidon stack. As the Poseidon stack is already supported by authors of third-party commercial software, we have decided that releasing another, our own, USB stack for Amiga under such circumstances would mean doubling effort of Amiga programmers. We are sure that high-quality software included in the Poseidon stack package and our hardware-optimised drivers resulting in high performance achieved by PCI USB cards in Mediator will satisfy even the most demanding users. The unregistered, time-limited version of the Poseidon USB stack will be available in the Mediator Multimedia CD. Registration of the Poseidon stack for Mediator users will be provided by Chris Hodges. '
Would you rather them write something like this below?
We cannot supply the Poseidon stack software. It is on Aminet. Chris Hodges has no licence agreement with us. He 'only' wrote the stack to give users the opportunity to use USB devices. He did not pay us. He accused us of no care about users of our products. He never apologizes. He could produce good software, but in our opinion, he has no ethics at all. Users who want to use Poseidon without demo restrictions have to register.
They hardly even say that it uses Poseidon.
What do you think the following sentence means in the Spider page (http://www.buy.elbox.com/cgibin/shop?info=770S20)?
• Amiga support works under the Poseidon stack
They hardly even say that it uses Poseidon. When you ask them about that, they just say that it didn't /fit/ in the press release for space reasons (?).
Did you ask them? I bet you did not.
For me, this is a clear attempt to cause misinformation to the end user (who is then angry about it and its his good right to be so).
This is typical for you to speak about Elbox.
First you give a bunch of untrue information about them, and then you jump to conclusions that they are not right.
Elbox gives the impression that the Spider is cheaper than other solutions
And this is true. You probably have seen my summary:
USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $70
USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $ ???
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= $115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $75 (or $95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)
as the users don't see they have to spend some extra money for the registration.
Untrue, they inform clearly about it.
Quite a lot of money for buying the cheap PC cards and just sticking a new label on it.
You've got a problem because the card by Elbox, based on the best USB 2.0 chipset in the world, is so cheap?
You should rather write that 'quite a lot money' applies to USB 1.1 controllers, which are produced for Zorro2. Especially when you take into account how their parameters are worse than those of modern USB 2.0 cards.
Of course I appreciate that their producer must have been able to read the Zorro2 specification, to plot the board, to program a simple PLD chip and to connect it with a dollar-cheap 8-bit USB controller taken from Atmel or with such chip from Transdimension.
When I can buy for my Amiga something much better and cheaper, why should I buy a worse device and pay more for it?
Don't ask me how many support emails I received by people not knowing that an unregistered copy will stop working after a short time.
Maybe because you do not write it clearly enough in the guide to your program?
I am pissed about Elbox, and that won't change for a long time. However, Poseidon users are equally welcome.
I have the impression that the main reason of your word crusade against Elbox is aimed at helping in sales of overpriced Zorro2 cards made by your friend. Maybe you should think about users too?
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@ LP
isnt it nice that the Amiga is the only platform around where when you try to just buy your hardware to update your computer and get on with your life, you find yourself stuck in the middle of a corporate bitch fit?
thats their way of saying " THANKS FOR SUPPORTING WHAT WE DO"
Man if I was you, I would just say the hell with all the ancient hardware and the corporate mess that comes with upgrading a dead platform, never mind the expense, thats a whole other complaint that if I said anything about, people on amiga.org would get all pissy faced about.
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just wondering, how many KB's in easter egg
images do you have in your software ?
stupid idea, but just my opinion.
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@ Catohagen
what?
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Dear Tjaoz (aka Rat),
once again, I have to tell you that you claim things which are not correct.
And I can prove this, by just taking the Elbox website (price list), a simple
list of exchange rates (EUR and US$, you know), and a calculator.
> And this is true. You probably have seen my summary:
>
> USB 2.0 controller:
> Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $70
>
> USB 1.1 controllers:
> Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= $115
> Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $100
> Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $85
Please note (once again, like in another
thread (http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?mode=flat&order=1&item_id=2210) where you used this wrong list),
learn about the difference in "VAT incl." and "VAT excl.". And, that (USD != EUR).
So, if you do comparisons, do them fair. Optionally, use your brain.
You took into account in your last comparison that things which have to be bought
additionally should be taken into account.
So, the list corrected by your "simplifications", should say:
Algor (3 ports) + Driver + Poseidon + 512kB FlashROM ~= 115EUR
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon + PCI slot + 0kB FlashROM ~= 130EUR
Could you explain this to me ?
You "forgot" to answer to my corrections, for whatever reasons.
Maybe for lack of arguments, or maybe you still are looking for someone being able
of algebra.
Anyhow, I have another question... I might cite you:
> Of course I appreciate that their producer must have been able to read the Zorro2
> specification, to plot the board, to program a simple PLD chip and to connect it
> with a dollar-cheap 8-bit USB controller taken from Atmel or with such chip from
> Transdimension.
Well, my dearest friend, you seem to be quite experienced with hardware design.
Your description is right, as far as the basic principle is concerned.
But the devil likes the details, anyhow.
Your claim (hey, how do you get on Atmel ? Seems that you have problems with
both reading and algebra) shows me that you never ever did anything with hardware
on your own.
I may advise you: talk about things you know.
As things are so easy... how many Zorro cards did you design by yourself up to now ?
How many "simple CPLDs" have you rolled on your own ?
Erm, please talk louder, I can't hear you... what ? Louder...
> I have the impression that the main reason of your word crusade against Elbox
> is aimed at helping in sales of overpriced Zorro2 cards made by your friend.
Hey, that must be the reason that this damned overpriced HIGHWAY card is sold out.
Maybe this is also the reason why most customers are quite happy with this card.
Any maybe that's why there's demand for a successor card.
Or for some people dropping Spider cards in favour of the upcoming ALGOR.
Thanks for this hint.
Oh, by the way, I always enjoy reading some bullshit originating from you.
It's so ridiculous and makes me laugh while reading some Zorro II specs or
programming a simple CPLD. Maybe I should engage you as jester... in case your PR job
here does not pay well.
Michael
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Hello Michael,
That's regular now... when I say something directly to Chris Hodges about his improper behaviour YOU are responding.
This only confirms YOUR main role in his negative attitude to Elbox.
Do you really think the amiga community needs the conflict which you so intensely are trying to cause?
Please note (once again, like in another thread where you used this wrong list),
learn about the difference in "VAT incl." and "VAT excl.". And, that (USD != EUR).
So, if you do comparisons, do them fair.
YOUR calculations are not reliable. See details in the thread you quote (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44376).
Well, my dearest friend, you seem to be quite experienced with hardware design.
Your description is right, as far as the basic principle is concerned.
But the devil likes the details, anyhow.
Your claim (hey, how do you get on Atmel ? Seems that you have problems with
both reading and algebra) shows me that you never ever did anything with hardware
on your own.
What made you so angry when I wrote about Atmel?
Maybe it is because they publicly inform about price for their AT43USB35x 8-bit embedded USB controllers. These prices start from $1.25.
Hey, that must be the reason that this damned overpriced HIGHWAY card is sold out.
I don't know why you have run out of these cards and I really do not care about it.
I have the Spider USB 2.0 card and I know well how far better it is when compared with these Algor, Highway or Subway USB 1.1 cards.
Optionally, use your brain.
...
Oh, by the way, I always enjoy reading some bullshit originating from you.
I have noticed that whenever you have no arguments, you offend the other person. This is to prove your personal culture, for sure.
@every one
Cui prodest scelus, is fecit. (For non-Latin readers: The one who derives adavantage from the crime is the one most likely to have commited it).
Michael Boehmer, producer of the Algor, Highway and Subway controllers, is the main party who benefits from the public bad atmosphere between Chris Hodges and Elbox.
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Quit the Elbox bashing now.
No, they aren't perfect.
Like all Amiga companies, I'm sure they are egomaniacs...we get this type of fighting all the time.
I don't care, though...the PCI Busboard from Elbox and many of their other products are top of the line in this market, and the best priced too. It's still expensive...but its the best.
Gosh, remember when we had to add a crappy Zorro II just get some kind of decent video on the A1200...and that was even very decent, and super expensive.
This is a good company.
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There's one main reason, why I don't listen to what a Rat says: It stinks. I wonder, why in fables, liars are often represented as rats. Stay in your dream world, where Elbox rules the world. Ignorance is bliss. Don't try to waste my time.
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I guess you hate Hyperion, the CGX team, the P96 team
and generally, all people that had problems with Elbox
in the past... My friend... YOU SUCK!
Your Highway (I'm not even a fan of it, just mentioning
some facts) price busting is more than wrong...
Do you think that the Spider price = it's parts price
plus some added cost to get some money?
It doesn't work this way...
When you buy a product, you pay:
R&D, parts, production (which is expensive in small numbers),
support, software than comes with it, packaging and the
added cost to have some income...
I did some research about portable DVD players in the past,
do you know how much the parts and production alone cost?
Less than half the end user price...
The Highway needed R&D that was *NOT* needed for Elbox's
solution (which HW engineer DOESN'T know how to make a PCI
card based on a well known and documented PCI USB chipset?)
Now, make your calculations again and see that the price
difference between the boards is VERY minimal.
BTW, leave the Pegasos OUT of your price lists, nobody bought
the Pegasos to get a USB solution.
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LOVE & PEACE!!! :-D :-D :-D
I don't hate you Chris Hodges! I don't hate Elbox! We are all friends here, but all of you just
didn't realized that! :-D
LOVE & PEACE!!! :-D :-D :-D
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This whole topic is funny as hell to me... I don't even use USB devices on my PC, let alone my Amiga!
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@Dr_Wrongeous
This whole topic is funny as hell to me... I don't even use USB devices on my PC, let alone my Amiga!
Maybe it's fun to you... :-x But it's not to me, I actually think it's a rather important topic, who many may get fund of, if they're thinking about purchasing USB equipment for their Amiga...
So please keep your lame idea of fun away from this topic...
@All of you
I can see this is a hot discution now...
I recived the before mentioned e-mail from ELBOX and they didn't answer my questions at all, but send me a list of links to find the information myself... OK then, not the best customerservice, but I guess they are trying to damp the situation...
I'm not going to gloryfy any of the involed in this matter, just hope the things work as promised, and I'll then go back to live my life as normal...
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There's one main reason, why I don't listen to what a Rat says: It stinks. I wonder, why in fables, liars are often represented as rats. Stay in your dream world, where Elbox rules the world. Ignorance is bliss. Don't try to waste my time.
ARE THERE ANY MODERATORS IN THIS FORUM?
The posts like that one from Chris Hodges are so offensive--they surely violate the rules for this forum.
I bought my Poseidon keys from Chris Hodges and he knows my name. And he knows it sounds 'Rat' in translation.
I don't know from where Chris Hodges comes, maybe in his native country offending people by calling them names are something of a standard. Anyway, in my country such behaviour is considered complete lack of personal culture.
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20 Euros Eh? #### I`ll give you the money if your that bothered.
Rude!
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You want something rude? I think, that somebody, who uses a "Rat" nickname on ann.lu and then pretends to be offended to be addressed by this very nickname, he chose by his own, is clearly utterly brainless. Dense. IQ lower than the room temperature. Do you understand? I doubt it.
Everybody knows, what you're trying to do here, Jacek. You're a twister. You take the words that people say and convert it into bullsh*t. Whenever somebody has a valid argument, you either ignore it, or go down to personal insult level. You deny the truth with every possible method. In every country in this world, people have a word that would describe your major character features. And it wouldn't be a friendly one.
Even in Poland. I know a lot of people from this country and they always behaved in a friendly and fair way. It doesn't seem to be specific to a nation that there will always be some assholes. There are assholes in Germany too, no doubt. (And before you start that: No, I didn't say that /YOU/ are an asshole -- that's something you've got to find out yourself.)
What did you ever do for the Amiga? Eh? Did you ever do something productive? Something creative? Or could it be possible that you might be a poor, frustrated slob without a girl friend, who only has one task in this world: to ruin other people's day?
You've got no idea on the things you're talking about. But you would never admit it. Example: You were indicating that Highway/Subway or Algor boards are using some Atmel 8 Bit USB Controller. That's complete bullshit. You also claimed that USB1.1 chipsets would not being produced anymore. That's also more than wrong.
Have you ever thought of doing some therapy? I believe there are people, who could help you.
Listen: I will send you back your EUR 20. All you have to do, is to delete your keyfile, deinstall my software and ask Elbox to provide the neccessary USB Stack of their own. And pray that we never ever meet in person.
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It's your choice not to use USB in Amiga or PC like it's your choice not to use HDs and keep everything on floppies;) I don't want to criticise your choice, but I somehow fail to understand that you do not want the hardware/software that allows me to use a printer, scanner, tablet or a digital camera with my Amiga/Pegasos.
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It's funny to see how platon42 and his 'sidekick' attack this 'Rat' dude on a personal level without bringing any arguments why their cards are better then the Elbox ones. Don't get me wrong i appriciate your work on Poseidon as it's a very good USB stack but just be real.You already said Highway is sold out so don't worry Elbox won't 'steal' your earnings. At least Elbox doesn't take part on such lame discussions and i never saw they attacked you as you attack them. You say it's easy to stick another label on a pc card and sell that but was it easy to make Mediator which was made to take pc cards anyway ? Just face it Elbox has the better hardware you have the best(only) software and stop this pointless fight....
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My last post was not about Elbox nor their Mediator board nor the Highway. Please don't you start mixing things here aswell.
And about Elbox not attacking me: I am offended of being called a liar, cracker and pirate. Wouldn't you be, too?
Finally, this thread also was about the price of the Algor board which is on sale right now. The only aim Rat has, is to promote the Spider (and can you be sure that he isn't one of Elbox' at least indirect employees according to all his postings during the whole year?) and bash the Algor with wrong and twisted information. The software that is used to drive the Algor was written by me. So I do take it personally, if somebody writes that much bullshit all the time.
And about better hardware: I'll be giving away a free Poseidon registration for anyone, who can give a proof that the Spider (I or II) in an Mediator system is able to beat the Algor speedwise on an USB1.1 mass storage device (same CPU, same device).
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@platon42
You want something rude? I think, that somebody, who uses a "Rat" nickname on ann.lu
and then pretends to be offended to be addressed by this very nickname, he chose by
his own, is clearly utterly brainless.
'Rat' is my family name in translation to English language. I'm your customer and you have my personal data. My name--Rat--was used in this forum by YOU and by Michael Boehmer from E3B, NOT by me. In this forum I use nickname 'tjaoz' solely.
Read once again what YOU have written in your previous post:
'There's one main reason, why I don't listen to what a Rat says: It stinks. I wonder, why in fables, liars are often represented as rats.'
It is clear that YOU are trying to offend me personally with your rude comments related to my name. IMHO this your offensive post should be removed by moderators.
Dense. IQ lower than the room temperature. Do you understand? I doubt it.
Another example of YOUR offensive attitude. Where is your education and upbringing?
Everybody knows, what you're trying to do here, Jacek. You're a twister. You take the
words that people say and convert it into bullsh*t. Whenever somebody has a valid argument,
you either ignore it, or go down to personal insult level.
Personal insult level is what YOU are doing. You prove it with every word of yours. You offend intelligence of people reading this forum by your comments made as if nobody could see it. The same style goes for your friend here, Michael Boehmer. When he lacks arguments, HE starts insulting his interlocutor. Unlike your posts, I do not say anythng disturbing. I did NOT write anything offensive. Whatever you are trying to impute here, I never offended you, in public or in private.
You deny the truth with every
possible method.
No. When I discuss things, I use facts. I often give links to verify what I am saying. Can't say this about your appearance here.
In every country in this world, people have a word that would describe
your major character features. And it wouldn't be a friendly one.
Even in Poland. I know a lot of people from this country and they always behaved in
a friendly and fair way. It doesn't seem to be specific to a nation that there will always
be some assholes. There are assholes in Germany too, no doubt. (And before you start that:
No, I didn't say that /YOU/ are an asshole -- that's something you've got to find out yourself.
So to whom you address your insults?
Do you finally understand that your description is quite good for people behaving like you?
What did you ever do for the Amiga? Eh?
I'am an Amiga user. I do not have to do anything special for Amiga to post my comments here. There are more people like me in this forum. That you have written some program for Amiga, doesn't mean that you are entitled to attacking users and offending them. If you do not agree with somebody, just write that your opinion is different and give arguments to back up your attitude.
Did you ever do something productive? Something creative?
Yes, my work is productive. Still, my professional work has nothing to do with this forum.
Or could it be possible that you might be a poor, frustrated slob without a girl
friend, who only has one task in this world: to ruin other people's day?
It looks like your girlfriend let you down and you let your steam out with aggression, frustration and being unfriendly for people.
You've got no idea on the things you're talking about. But you would never admit it.
Example: You were indicating that Highway/Subway or Algor boards are using some Atmel
8 Bit USB Controller.
Not true, I did NOT write it. First learn reading and getting to understand texts, then comment. This is what I wrote here about USB Zorro2 boards:
'Of course I appreciate that their producer must have been able to read the Zorro2 specification, to plot the board, to program a simple PLD chip and to connect it with a dollar-cheap 8-bit USB controller taken from Atmel or with such chip from Transdimension.'
AFAIK Highway/Subway boards are based on a simple 8-bit USB controller UHC124 from Transdimension, similar to Atmel controllers, series AT43USB35x. Algor probably is based on a UHF243 from Transdimension, but Atmel produce a similar chip now, as well.
That's complete bullshit.
Another comment referring to YOUR own post, thank you.
You also claimed that USB1.1 chipsets would
not being produced anymore. That's also more than wrong.
Wrogn again, Chris. I did NOT write it. I wrote:
'USB 1.1 hosts which do not have the High Speed mode are now clearly obsolete. The basic difference between the USB 2.0 and the USB 1.1 standards is in adding High Speed mode in USB 2.0. Now no more USB 1.1 controllers (hosts) are produced for computers. Sure, there are devices with controllers (hosts) of the USB 1.1 standard, but not for computers. This type (USB 1.1) controllers (hosts) are installed in some specialised devices where speed of operation is not important.'
and
'Once again: Now no more USB 1.1 controllers (= PCI cards with USB ports) are produced for computers.'
These quotes come from my posts in the Highway ML: here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/670) and here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/729).
It is clear that I did not write that USB1.1 chipsets would not be produced anymore as you state, but that obsolete USB1.1 host chipsets TO COMPUTERS are not produced any more. They are still produced for some specialised devices where speed of operation is not important. Get the difference?
Have you ever thought of doing some therapy? I believe there are people, who could help you.
Doing therapy is a good idea. People will help me, sure. But how to make YOU come to sessions and get healed?
Listen: I will send you back your EUR 20. All you have to do, is to delete your keyfile,
I can see you have NO idea about law that is binding you as a seller. It is me who could demand refunding from you. But I demand restoring the proper operation of the software that I bought from you.
And pray that we never ever meet in person.
Why? Threatening me? What would you do to me?
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Dear tjaoz,
Yes, my work is productive. Still, my professional work has nothing to do with this forum.
Just being curious... you don't happen to work as photographer ? For advertisment ? In a nice little town which name begins with a "T" ?
If so, nice pictures anyway.
Michael
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'Rat' is my family name in translation to English language. I'm your customer and you have my personal data. My name--Rat--was used in this forum by YOU and by Michael Boehmer from E3B, NOT by me. In this forum I use nickname 'tjaoz' solely.
--
The key here is "in this forum". You used Rat as a
nickname to post THE SAME utter bullshit on ann.lu,
MULTIBLE times...
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@tjaoz:
Did you purchase Poseidon from Platon42, or was it to be included with your Spider?
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I have this operating system called Windoze XPee. You can connect any USB device to it on the motherboard, and it instantly works! What a brilliant idea for ASUS to have built-on USB on motherboards. Wait, its on every other board too! :-P
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You can't imagine how instantly it happens on Peg:-)
Imagine having a USB mouse working by just plugging it in, no driver installations, no popups, no
anything. It's initialized in t<<1s , almost as fast as
a PS/2 mouse, instantly. Should be the same on all
other supported boards, really, but on the Peg and
AOne, it's built in:)
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Nice to see other people trying to lighten the mood of this topic... I try it and end up getting flamed!
I dunno about the rest of you, but I consider Amiga a hobby platform... And I'm not about to get that upset over a hobby platform. (Serious video production folks, ignore this)
If something works, cool... If not, there's no sense in fighting about it. If you need to buy software to make hardware work, that's just the way it is... Otherwise write something yourself and give it out freely.
We're a community with a common interest. Let's act like civilized people for a change!
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I think ELBOX products are the best thing since sliced bread (thus my recent purchase of a Mediator 1200 SX). I also think ELBOX management are the worst thing since Commodore.
And to avoid any stupid RDB bullsh*t in the future since Im going to be using their products Im designing a sort of 'driver firewall' to prevent any ELBOX software from making system calls that it shouldnt (explain how a USB driver needs to legitimitly touch the RDB in any way!).
I like the cake but the icing on top is sour - a metaphoric comparison of elbox........
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I think we have the quote of the day:
I like the cake but the icing on top is sour
:lol:
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rudei:
20 Euros Eh? #### I`ll give you the money if your that bothered.
If I make an effort of sounding bothered, will you give me the money too? :)
Seriously, though, I agree with you.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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@elendil
LOL - ok mate, what currency? :-D
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@platon42
And about Elbox not attacking me: I am offended of being called a liar, cracker and pirate.
It is your imagination only. I just wrote in this tread about your false claims against Elbox. See my comment posted on 2003/5/30 16:27.
Is it a problem for you that they do not comment your behaviour?
Finally, this thread also was about the price of the Algor board which is on sale right now.
This thread was not about Algor or prices, but about Spider and Poseidon. This is you who started here the talk about prices of hardware. In your very first post in this thread you referred to price of the Spider card.
The only aim Rat has, is to promote the pider (and can you be sure that he isn't one of Elbox' at least indirect employees according to all his postings during the whole year?) and bash the Algor with wrong and twisted information.
You are again insulting me with your fictitious complaints.
Read my posts again and you will see they are all based on facts. Only you are using offences.
And about better hardware: I'll be giving away a free Poseidon registration for anyone, who can give a proof that the Spider (I or II) in an Mediator system is able to beat the Algor speedwise on an USB1.1 mass storage device (same CPU, same device).
It is obvious that Spider is much faster than Algor. Algor is only a USB 1.1 controller. Spider is a USB 2.0 High-Speed controller. All my masstorage devices work several times faster with Spider than they could work with Algor (according to Algor benchmarks page).
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@Targhan
Did you purchase Poseidon from Platon42, or was it to be included with your Spider?
I bought it from Chris Hodges directly.
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It's not at all "obvious". If you use a 1200, it's NOT
faster (nor slower). The Mediator 1200 uses the
GFXCard ram DMA method. It works fine, but it's NOT
DMA when transfering stuff from and to the cards
from main memory. It uses normal read and write
operations. Yes, it could be faster in high speed mode
by some kbs or mbs but not more... You cannot reach
the USB2.0 speed with any Amiga solution, except
if you plan to copy files from HighSpeed devices
to the GFX Card ram and keep it there:-)
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You do have to pay the registration fee for Poseidon seperately, but Elbox do make this pretty clear. I have a Spider I and highly recommend it, it's most excellent, it's a neat and clean USB solution, and if I remember rightly the price of a Spider + Poseidon isn't much different to a Subway USB card anyway. Plus Poseidon dead easy to register.
Right. i agree.
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USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $70
USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $ ???
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= $115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $75 (or $95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)
Right. Spider is the best solution in all cases.
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The RDB of a USB mass storage device?
Oh, I can see where modifying that would be considered useful.
:-P
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My only question is, which ones will work on my Amiga 2000? Since buying a 3000 would cost more than any of those cards.
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Hi ikir,
why do you repost this list which is obviously containing errors, even if you take the guidelines for comparisons Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is giving in its own postings ?
I tried to explain why here (http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44376), but it seems easier for people to repost things without ever checking with their own brains if they are true or not.
(Did you recognize that Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is denying to answer this thread ? Just beat him with his own arguments, and all there is is silence...)
Seems that I am talking into the void :(
Michael
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Hi jeffimix,
from the solutions which were posted here all Zorro based one will work in your Amiga 2000:
Thylacine, ALGOR, HIGHWAY
If you have a Zorro card included in your system with a free supported clockport, also a SUBWAY would work.
I won't give you my favourite solution here, as this might be found offensive by some people, but for my A2000 with a Blizzard 2040 processor card I found the ALGOR card to work perfectly (take a look on the benchmarks (http://www.e3b.de/usb/bench_e.html), they were made on this system).
Michael
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@Michel
why do you repost this list which is obviously containing errors, even if you take the guidelines for comparisons Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is giving in its own postings ?
My summary quoted by Ikir reliably gives price relationships between USB controllers listed there.
As I wrote in the thread quoted by you, prices of these controllers in Germany (with 16% VAT included) are:
USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= EUR70
USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR ???
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= EUR115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= EUR75 (or EUR95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)
Nothing in the summary is changed except for currency, from $ to EUR.
NONE of price relationships between the controllers were changed.
I tried to explain why here, but it seems easier for people to repost things without ever checking with their own brains if they are true or not.
Your problem is that persons like Ikar use their own brains and do not have to resort to yours.
(Did you recognize that Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is denying to answer this thread ? Just beat him with his own arguments, and all there is is silence...)
Seems that I am talking into the void :(
I do not refrain from answering. Just on the contrary. I showed your mistakes and where they came in your calculation. You have doubled German VAT for Spider.
Your continued looking for split hairs is simply boring :-(
Instead of making up how to add something to the Spider's price to make it more expensive, just admit your mistake and that's it.
As regards your trick to add part of Mediator price to the price of Spider... being consequent, you should suggest adding part of the price of Zorro equipped computers (corresponding to the price of one Zorro slot) to the price of Zorro2 USB controllers. If somebody has a Zorro busboard by Micronik or Elbox, parts of their prices should be added, and so on...
Such calculation of controller's price is a clear nonsens!
It is obvious that Spider is being bought by those who have PCI slots (or PCI and Zorro slots), while Zorro2 controllers are being bought by those who do not have PCI slots. Logical and natural, isn't it? It does not mean anything how much their computers used to be some time ago.
Just think how expensive USB controllers for Zorro2 would be for those who have only a PC machine. You should include the price of the entire Zorro equipped Amiga computer. :-)
I hope you can see absurdity of your comments to my summary.
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Dear Mr. Tjaoz,
no answers, just repetitions. As expected from you.
Just two quotesfrom you to show it.
The USB stack is not included in the WalMart card price.
The USB stack, which is necessary for using this card is the part of the Microsoft Windows or the Apple Mac OS system.
You should add the part of Windows or Mac OS price to the Walmart card price if you compare it to Spider II + Drivers + Poseidon.
Such calculation of controller's price is a clear nonsens!
It is obvious that Spider is being bought by those who have PCI slots (or PCI and Zorro slots), while Zorro2 controllers are being bought by those who do not have PCI slots.
Logical and natural, isn't it? It does not mean anything how much their computers used to be some time ago.
In one posting, you demand that all parts necessary for running a product need to be taken into account, in the next you deny it - according what is more convinient to you.
Quite twisted. What should one do now ?
Think about it, take a decision and then come back.
Regarding price of Zorro slots: nice try, but as you state above: it is obvious the ALGOR is not bought by those who don't have Zorro slots. If they have A1200, they own a clockport and go for a SUBWAY.
Michael
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Err Olegil you cant bum me out - the driver never needs to touch the RDB. Only the likes of HDToolBox, etc need to touch it.
There is a difference in the way legitimate RDB occurence would take place when compared to ELBOX self-destruct and if you are a programmer you can instantly recognise this.......
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Hello Michael,
Can't you see the difference between hardware (Zorro slots, PCI slots) and software (Poseidon stack, USB stack in MacOS, USB stack in Windows)?
I am talking about the subject of this thread that is including price of USB software when USB hardware price is compared.
You are suggesting adding part of computer price when comparing price for USB controllers.
This is utter nonsense.
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Dear Mr. Tjaoz,
so in your opinion only software prices are to be taken into account, if they are needed, but not the hardware necessary for running the software or at least adding the hardware under comparison to your computer ?
Somehow twisted...
You are suggesting adding part of computer price when comparing price for USB controllers.
The PCI board is not part of the computer, but an expansion board added lateron. Zorro slots / clockports are part already in the base device.
I do not add part of the computer price, but part of an expansion board price. Can you follow me ?
Michael
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Thanks to Chris for his exelent Poseidon software, it works 100%
Thanks to ELBOX for their Spider USB, it works 100%
@Dr. Righteous
Sorry for atacking you...
Wasn't in a good mood that day...
I see the fun now ;-)
There you go...
Now we're all good friends :-)
well... I'm off to get hammered :pint:
Thank you all for replying...
Hasta luego -din mor er lavet af lego...
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I hope you can see absurdity of your comments to my summary.
Right. Spider is the best/cheapest solution.
And, a Mediator isn't a piece of hardware that runs only spider usb.... AGAIN: my mediator (old 1200 model) saves my 1200. With Tvcard (and Tickly software), Sb128, Ethernet card (adsl connection) and a old but great Voodoo3 i use my amiga to work, play, music..... My father says me times ago: "find the way to connect your stupid amiga to the adsl-lan and buy a decent gfx-card, or i'll kick you and your 1200 out of my home". My father is a stupid (no doubt about it) but Mediator is THE BEST Hardware piece i ever buy for my Amy.