Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: X-ray on November 03, 2006, 03:47:10 PM
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So many A4000Ts have come up for sale lately, that I thought I would make a few notes for potential new buyers to consider, when assessing the completeness of the unit.
I will start with the bezel and add other items later. These pictures will go into the Amiga.Org Album too.
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The bezel
Here is the Escom A4000T bezel, removed from the case. Note that many people did not have an Amiga label on their bezel. I have included a scan of that label in the Amiga.Org photo album so that you can print your own.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTBezelClosedFront.jpg)
Here is the bezel with the door open. Original Escom A4KTs were shipped with a floppy drive only (in terms of externally accessed drives), and so you should expect an A4KT to come with at least 4 drive bay covers, such as the one arrowed in this picture: (if the guy has installed extra devices such as a CD-Rom, he should still have the drive bay cover).
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTBezelOpenFront.jpg)
Here is how those drive bay covers attach to the bezel:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/BackViewPlate.jpg)
Note that A3000T covers are not the same as A4000T covers. They are not interchangeable.
Next, you should make sure that the bezel is structurally sound. It should have the smoked grey plastic panel on the front, and intact hinges and door catch. Here are some pictures of the hinges, which are actually small plastic rods (arrowed). These are easily damaged and tend to be the things that break first on the bezel if the owner isn't careful:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTBezelHinges.jpg)
The catch is a plastic protrusion on the inside of the door that 'mates' with a black two-pronged clasp on the bezel frame:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTBezelCatch.jpg)
On the underside of the bezel, you should see 6 claw clasps (red arrow in following pic) and also 3 clear plastic LED covers between the bezel buttons (green arrow in following pic). Those can come loose, it happened to me.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTBezelClawClasps.jpg)
The other thing to look out for is scratches or prise marks on the underside of that bezel from where the previous owner may have used excessive force to get the bezel off.
I can't say that these are likely to be found in mint condition. They are usually yellowed, like mine, and there are often scratches on the smoked grey panel.
And that's what comprises a complete A4KT bezel.
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great job!
although I don't plan to get an A4000T in the near future, this kind of threads is always appreciated and welcome! thanks! :-D
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You are most welcome, my good man!
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Also make sure the disk module is there (along with other standard stuff). User Jose here got a "complete" A4000T without the disk module.
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@ Adolescent
Don't worry, my son, I will cover all the angles ;-)
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@X-ray
Ok. Can I assume drive rails are next?
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The whole shebang, yes.
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I really wish I could get a new door.
The closing tab, and one of the hinge pieces are both broken on mine.
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Nice job x-ray, i have been searching for an A4000T here in Finland but there dont seem to be any for sale. Do you guys know how many A4000T there have been manufactured and sold in those old good days?
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@ Andeda
Thanks!
I don't know how many Escom A4KTs were made, but I am under the impression that there are many. They are certainly not as rare as the Commodore A4KT, which is the same machine but with a different bezel.
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The Case
OK, now let's see what you should look for in the case itself. I won't discuss the lid because that is a fairly obvious case component. It forms one side of the case, so unfortunately you cannot access the tower insides while the case is standing upright. You have to turn it sideways and remove five screws from the back. You can remove the case lid without having to remove the bezel (for example if you just want access to the motherboard). Here is a picture of the front of the case, top part:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/CaseSwitchPaneletc.jpg)
There you can see the switch and LED block, and also a keylock. You should check that all the LEDs are present and that the cables and jumper blocks are present for each switch and LED. Some of these may seem useless (such as the Turbo button and LED) but they are very useful for connecting to third party boards such as SCSI controllers and Kickflash boards. The other thing that should be present is the proper floppy drive face plate and floppy itself. There should be a pair of drive rails for each bay, making five pairs in all. If there aren't five drives mounted, then the extra drive rails must be in storage. The drive rails allow for the removal of devices without a screwdriver (you squeeze the tabs towards each other and then you can pull the device out with the rails attached to it).
Here is the lower part of the front of the case:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/CaseDriveBayCoveretc.jpg)
There is a heavy plate that bulges from the front of the case. It is there to protect the vertical drive bays. It is attached with four screws that also secure the front of the drive chassis. You can also see a removable 80mm fan filter, for the case fan.
Here is a picture of the back of the case:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/CaseSCSIExternaletc.jpg)
The important features here are the PSU with its monitor power plug and 120v/240v switch. The drive chassis has a lip that is secured at the back with two screws as indicated. You can also see the disks module external SCSI connector and the AV module ports at the back. There is usually a sticker that describes the various ports, but note that the stickers on some units show the wrong positions for the SCSI DIP switches.
Inside the case at the front:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/CaseDriveRailsetc.jpg)
Here you can see the drive rails and the drive chassis. Note that the drive bay enclosure with the floppy and CD-writer, is not removable like the drive chassis.
Towards the bottom:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/CaseFanSpeakeretc.jpg)
Standard equipment is the case fan (80mm) and the internal speaker. Not shown here is the coin battery that is spot-welded to tabs on the mobo. Here the battery and the tabs have been removed and I am using a lithium battery pack instead (non-standard equipment). Check my album photos to see more info on the battery pack.
And last but not least, at the back of the case inside:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/CaseBackplaneBracketetc.jpg)
There should be six backplane covers (if the setup is original and the user has no Zorro cards with backplanes). Note that the slot where the AV module goes, does not have a case screw hole. There is a backplane plate (or L bracket) that serves to secure the AV module in place). Many users didn't get this plate. In fact I had to make one for a poor bugger in Canada :-P
Optional extras for the case (although they were included as standard when I bought my A4KT): case stands. Check my album photos to see them. I don't regard those as essential items.
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The Motherboard and daughter modules
Okay, this is the heart of the machine, the motherboard. Here is the mainboard (note that this is NOT enough to constitute a working A4KT mobo):
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/Mobo.jpg)
There is no daughter board for Zorro slots on the A4KT.The zorro slots are on the mainboard. There are four 72 pin SIMM sockets on the mobo, but you can only have a maximum of 16mb RAM onboard. Here I have two 8mb SIMMS.
There are only three components that the previous owner may have messed around with, that are removable: the ROMS, and two oscillators. Here you can see the original 3.1 A4KT ROMs and the mobo oscillator above, at 28mHz. These ROMs are not the same as A1200 3.1 ROMs.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTMoboROMs.jpg)
The other oscillator is located near the CIA chips, and is for the CPU slot, and is rated as 50mHz standard. See here:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTMoboCIAs.jpg)
Note that the two CIA chips here are socketed (red arrows) and this is NOT standard on an A4KT. I had that done by Amiga Center in France. Standard equipment is the CPU slot oscillator and the standoffs for the CPU card, which was an 040 card by default (an A3640). Note that not all of these spacers are the same length, and using the wrong spacers can cause quite a few problems. Take this into account if you buy an A4KT with an A3640 card and you subsequently upgrade to another card eg. a PPC card.
Right, now for the daughter modules of the A4KT.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTMoboPortsModule.jpg)
The A4KT comes with three daughter modules: the ports module, the disks module and the AV module. These are not optional extras and constitute the essential components of an A4KT motherboard. If you are buying an A4KT and the seller takes one or more of these modules away, he is not selling a complete A4KT, end of story. The ports module is mounted to the case by means of screws that attach from the outside of the case. Standard equipment are the two ribbon cables that attach that module to the mobo. Then on the left you can see the disks module. Without that module the machine won't even boot, regardless of what other expansions or accelerator card you have. That disks module has the floppy drive header and the internal 50 pin SCSI header on it. The module attaches directly to the mainboard. Standard equipment is a SCSI cable for connecting to a HD (all A4KTs came with hard-disks) and also a floppy cable. Now this is where there seems to have been some variation. My unit has a non-standard floppy drive. It isn't a standard PC drive but it also isn't a standard Amiga drive. It is an 880k drive that can only be used with an Amiga if it is connected through the floppy PCB you see there. Some users have reported getting A4KTs with 1.7mb floppy drives, without that intervening PCB, and others have received 880k drives without that PCB too. Make sure before you buy, that the floppy works. If it doesn't work, ask if that PCB was part of the original shipment.
Here is a different view of the daughter modules and here you can see the AV module:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/AVModuleetc.jpg)
That's all self-explanatory. The only thing there that is not standard is the grey CD audio lead that attaches to the AV module. I added that when I got my CD-writer. Also in that image you can see how the L bracket secures the AV module.
Those are all the components that constitute an A4KT motherboard. In my case it means the mobo, three daughter modules and the floppy converter PCB, and all the associated cables. For more info on the daughter modules, see my pictures in the photo album. I have detailed images there.
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Great thread about the 4kT. When I bought mine back in 2000 it seemed rather complete from the outside, unfortunately it wasn't. The important bits were there, the parts that made it an A4000T but there were no drive rails and some other internal hardware was missing as well.
However, sure we all want mint condition A4kTs but chances are that you'd only find a good functioning but less than complete A4kT. The good thing about the A4kT is that it fits inside a bog standard AT tower case: no hardware modification of the case should be needed to put the lady in! Okay, AT cases are getting pretty rare but they're easier to obtain than mint A4kT cases.
The conclusion is that you should not leave the system at the seller's just because the case is incomplete. If it is working problem free, the case should be less of a concern.
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Mine doesn't have the floppy convertor as later revision of the disk module supported 880K and 1.76MB floppy drives.
I was told by Amiga that i have the last revision made of the Amiga A4000T, it has a high density drive fitted (Sony with Amiga Technologies sticker on it). It came with a spare disk module one fitted and one located in a box.
I brought mine brand new after selling my A3000T.
I must say your post was very detailed must have taken you a while to add all that information.
I noticed your coin battery has been removed or not present.
It's worth mentioning that Workbench 3.1 came with extra manuals for the A4000T & Workbench 3.1 disks which has the extra files required for the A4000T i.e workbench.library.
I also have spare blanking plates,drive rails, tower case feet and cpu riser pins.
They are certainly nice machines!
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@ Erol
Could you please post pics of both your disk modules, so that I can compare them to mine. See mine here:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1674
It is a revision 1 module. When I bought a spare from Vesalia, it was also a revision 1 but came without a backplane.
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@X-Ray
Sure, give me a few weeks as im on holiday next week.
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I am new to this site and hopefully someone can help me with a couple of things.
My dad and I purchased 3 A4000T's without any manuals or the correct 3.1 software. In correct I mean we have 3.1 software that we purchased years ago for a 2000 but it will not load and I find from above that there are differences in the 4000T software.
Is there anywhere I can purchase the correct 3.1 software and hopefully get the manuals for the 4000T? any help would be great. I would need the English manuals.
The 3 4000T's we purchased work well 2 of them are from the 1996 era and the one I purchased is from 1998 (Quickpak model) with a Cyberstorm MKIII 060 board in it which is pretty fast.
Again any help with software and manuals would be appreciated.
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Get yourself OS3.9, it has 3.1 on the cd as well.
Then you'll be up and running.
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And now the odds and ends
Well, the keyboard and mouse are not really odds and ends, but you aren't going to hang yourself if you don't get the original keyboard and mouse. Here they are:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTKeyboard.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTKeyboardLogo.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTMouse.jpg)
The keyboard just says 'Amiga.' It has the large connector, which means if you buy a spare keyboard for the A4KT and you don't have a converter, you should just buy an A2000 keyboard. Of course if you got all the things that I got with my A4KT, you will have a converter already.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTAccessories.jpg)
Above you can see the Amiga RGB to PC VGA converter. This is not a scandoubler or flicker fixer, you still have to choose a 31kHz mode that the VGA monitor can use. In the middle you can see the keyboard converter (if you want to use an A4000D keyboard on your A4KT) and on the right you can see the two keys for the keylock.
There was also an A3 sheet that details the components of the Enlight case and how they fit together. This does not show an Amiga bezel. Here are two scans of that sheet, front and back. If anyone wants high res images of that they can PM me.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/ManualAmiga4000TCasePage01.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/ManualAmiga4000TCasePage02.jpg)
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Manuals and software
My A4KT came with the following manuals and disks:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTManuals.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTFloppies.jpg)
The manuals came in this box:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTManualBox.jpg)
There are six manuals and a quick reference booklet which makes 7 manual items just for Amiga OS 3.1 that ships with the A4KT. Then there are three other manuals for the free software that accompanied the A4KT.
Workbench 3.1 for my A4KT was supplied on 6 floppies (880k). Here are the labels of those disks:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/DiskLabels02.jpg)
These are not the same as A1200 Workbench disks. Here are the labels for the free software that came with my A4KT:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/DiskLabels01.jpg)
All the disks are 880kb. In my case there were 22 floppies in total, and 10 manuals that accompanied the Amiga.
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I took 52 photos / scans for this thread, so I hope all you fukkas are grateful :-P
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Thanks X-Ray, Im a grateful fukka ;-)
One question though, where is the A4000T X-ray, come on now, hehe.
Ive looked for ages for a high resolution scan of the A4000T Board and came up with squat, cant wait to see the rest of the 52 photo's, get em up! :-D
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oh and PS: Remove the flux from around that CIA, it looks like someone tried to melt your board. :-)
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@ Oli-hd
Glad you like the pictures. I have a picture and matching X-ray of the A4KT mobo: I will see if I can locate those and post them here.
Flux mess: ja, been there, done that. Actually, it was Amiga Center in France who went there and did that. Some of the pictures in the thread are from before I got my CIAs socketed, and some are from after. But you are right, it was darned ugly before JJ got hold of it.
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Well you are in luck my son, I found those pics. Here is the mobo and the X-ray of the mobo:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTmobo.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/A4KTmoboX-ray.jpg)
And here is a closeup of the ROMs, Gary, Ramsey and Buster:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/ROMS.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/ROMSX-ray.jpg)
These images were taken before the CIA replacement.
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Technical info about that X-ray:
The proper term for it is radiograph. That one was produced from a 35 x 43 cm film in an X-ray cassette. It then gets developed in a black and white process. That blue tint you see there is the base tint of the cellulose layer of the film.
That is one big negaitve !!
Soon I will have access to a medical-grade radiographic digitizer and I will try to digitize my films properly. I don't know anybody who has a transparency scanner at home that can handle a 35 x 43 cm negative ;-)
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Nice one X !
That really is the most horrific CIA I have ever seen! But another job well done from JJ; the sockets look fine.
Love the X-rays', once had one of a notebook, but this is so much more cool!
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@ Tahoe
What revision is your disk module? Do you have a floppy converter PCB and 880k drive?
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I was wondering, do your colleagues find you odd in the slightest way for hauling a kingsize mobo to the hospital just to take some x-ray photos of it? ;-)
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X-Ray thanx for the pix and info. this helps me more with my 4000t as I didn't rec. manuals and WB3.1 with it.
I figured hey it's not a big deal if I didn't get 3.1 because I already had it for a 2000, then I find there is a difference between 4000t's and regular Amigas.
I have been scouring Ebay trying to find the correct disks for my tower and haven't had any luck.
Would you be kind enough to make images of your Install, Workbench, and Extras? I would be forever greatful.
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@ Odin
"...I was wondering, do your colleagues find you odd in the slightest way for hauling a kingsize mobo to the hospital just to some x-ray photos of it?..."
----------------------------------------------------------
I've X-rayed and scanned all sorts of things, from archaeological relics to neanderthal fossils to weapons components to corpses (forensic reasons).
So mobos are a piece of cake old bean.
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X-ray wrote:
@ Tahoe
What revision is your disk module? Do you have a floppy converter PCB and 880k drive?
I'll have to have a look; what do you want it to be? :)
I don't have a Floppy Converter PCB and have a high density FZ357A drive; but then again, the machine came without a floppy drive. I just yanked this one out of a 4000...
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@ Erol and Tahoe
Any word on the disk module revision numbers?
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I am a grateful f...person too! :-D
(edited by myself, before the moderator catch me again)
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double post!
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X-ray wrote:
I took 52 photos / scans for this thread, so I hope all you fukkas are grateful :-P [/quote]
I am a grateful fukka too! :-D
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X-ray, thanks for the good work and great service to the rest of us who are interested in these old machines. This thread is a service to anyone wanting or owning an A4000T.
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@ rkauer and mbrantley
You are most welcome.
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Can X-Rays be taken in full motion like in True Lies? I would have thought the radiation exposure from a continous stream would be deadly...
Can exposure to X-Rays damage or alter materials other than photographic film?
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Megacoool pics! Whoa! :crazy: :-o
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Yes I am also a grateful err.. Person, for these pictures.
Even though it is a slightly depressing thought that I'll prolly never actually own a complete setup looking quite as good as this one myself, I thank you anyway X-Ray for your hard work - it's certainly good for reference, making sure your systems in its entirety and the like!
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@ Hyperspeed
Ja, you can get full motion X-ray video. It's called fluoroscopy, or screening. They use that for investigations of the heart, blood vessels and gastro-intestinal tract. We even have mobile units that you can take from one operating theatre to another (these are usually used during the operation so that the surgeon can see where he is drilling for example). Those units have onboard CD or DVD drives and they can save a study as an MPG or a DICOM video file.
Of course we don't X-ray the whole dude like they did in True Lies, we just X-ray one part, and we keep the screening times as low as possible.
You can't hurt household electronics with medical X-ray units. I once did an experiment with an Amiga floppy disk where I left the disk in a screening tray for about a minute and zapped the hell out of it...but it still worked, no errors on any of the files on the disk.
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Bumped because some changes were made, and because Erol and Tahoe still haven't got back to me about their disk module revision numbers ;-)
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X-ray wrote:
Bumped because some changes were made, and because Erol and Tahoe still haven't got back to me about their disk module revision numbers ;-)
Maybe that's cos they are un-grateful fukkas! :-D
Nice thread.
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What makes me wonder is this: if those X-Rays are penetrating the plastic-leaded chip carriers (on your photos) to reveal the core itself doesn't this also suggest a leaded apron or leaded glass would also let X-Rays through in the screening room?
I've often wondered too about MRI scanners. If Magneto in the X-Men can suck out the iron in your blood to make bullets then what is a 7-tonne magnet going to do? When I visited a hospital years ago they told me people had been killed when instruments and coins etc. had been sucked into the scanner!
As for the A4000T, why did Commodore decide to mount those drive-bays vertically. That's a pain in the arse for CD-ROMs!
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@ Hyperspeed
If the core is being revealed then the plastic cannot be impregnated with lead. Even a very thin strip of rubber that is impregnated with lead will stop the X-rays of the type used to image that board. A lead apron worn by a person has two such layers, and a glass screen at a console is the equivalent of four such layers.
The bays on the A4000T: you have two spare horizontal bays, so you can put a CD in one and a DVD in the other. I had an early SCSI CD-ROM in a vertical bay, but that one had retainers in the tray. Those seem rare these days. If you were really desperate for a third horizontal bay you could always move the floppy to a vertical bay.
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@X-ray
If you were really desperate for a third horizontal bay you could always move the floppy to a vertical bay.
[/quote]
Thanks for all the information and pictures. You could put together a nice guide.
As far as the drives go, couldn't a person just use slot loading drives in the horizontal bays?
Jeff
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Man, those pictures are nice. Only a serious amifan would do that. Excellent job!
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by Jeff:
As far as the drives go, couldn't a person just use slot loading drives in the horizontal bays?
Ever since a Quantum Fireball in a PC started getting the dreaded ping-pong noise of bearing failure I have been reluctant to mounting any type of spinning drive counter to gravity.
Until magnetic bearings become commonplace I will remain a sceptic of drives mounted vertically, particularly removeable media!
:inquisitive:
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I don't think it is an issue. These are the drives I have run vertically:
External Zip Drive: 3 years (not enough desk space)
Toshiba SCSI CD Rom: 2 years
Quantum Fireball: 8 years
Seagate HD (original A4KT drive): 10 years
Connor HD: 2 years
I had no problems with those and they are all old units. The Connor is the only one that has given me trouble, but that was after I ran it another 2 years horizontal. It developed errors. It still works though and it is the only drive I have that has been attached to and formatted on a MAC, PC and Amiga. It has been an external drive and an internal drive and has even been used to transfer X-rays off a medical scanner. So it got heavy use and I'll forgive it for playing up.
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Bumped because Erol and Tahoe still haven't got back to me about their disk module revision numbers ;-) :rtfm:
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Bumped because Erol and Tahoe still haven't got back to me about their disk module revision numbers, which I think I deserve ;-)
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adolescent wrote:
Also make sure the disk module is there (along with other standard stuff). User Jose here got a "complete" A4000T without the disk module.
vesalia has got spare disk modules.
I just ordered a AV module for my 4000t
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I also bought those from Vesalia. I would like a spare ports module too, but they don't have that. I'm still looking for one.
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Bumped because Erol and Tahoe still haven't got back to me about their disk module revision numbers, which I think I deserve
Well I got an A4000T a week ago and the first thing I did was pop it open (clean it) and check the disk module revision number, down side is its a revision 1, as is a spare I also bought from Vesalia.
Now Ive got to do some touch-up on the paint work, anyone got any hints on a good paint to use?
My A4t is a late Escom one and the door is missing.. anyone know if some company out there still has a stock of front facias for the Enlight Case?
Also at the moment my Cyberstorm is dead (been like that for a few yeras, I will get it repaired after my finances recover) but in the mean time Im using the A3640, problem is the revision 3.1 card wont boot, the LED goes dull then bright but then stops but my 3.0 board works just fine except I have had to remove the heatsink that was on it as it doesnt fit under the metal carrier with it on... so any hints on a: why the revision 3.1 board aint working (Ive changed the CPU on it for the 3.0 chip and get the same) and if revision 3.0 cards are ment to get so hot it crashes. (Could be a timing problem with the 3.0 card but it works fine when it starts, then reset or something and you get errors like iprefs have crashed or a guru etc)
hmm I gotta go looking for more of those slides too.
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I have an Escom A4000T...and there is 1 burning question that I never understood...which has to do with the Turbo/Speaker LED connector...
The LED is always on if I connect it one direction and always off if I connect it the other way on the motherboard. That is, the Turbo/Speaker switch never turns this light on or off...so what is the LED really for?
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Well, when the speaker is disabled, the light emitted by the LED varies with the sounds emitted by the computer.
Try playing an audio file, or play a game, and you will see that the light intensity changes.
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Wow, great photos, details, infos X-Ray!!!!!!
Any chance you have a radiograph of an A3000 mobo?
Anyone have one? Anyone in the USA that can take an x-ray of an A3000 mobo? (I'm trying to revive my dead A3000 and I'm not sure if I busted any vias as I was desoldering the Chip RAM)
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As for the A4000T, why did Commodore decide to mount those drive-bays vertically. That's a pain in the arse for CD-ROMs!
I know it's a pain! Think about it... it's 2008, we have 20x DVD burners, Blueray burners that hold 50GB of data when my computer back then had an 80MB (yeah megabyte) harddrive...
and gues what??? Companies are still making computers where the discs go in sideways and are hard as hell to get in!! :-)
(http://hpshopping.speedera.net/www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/s3300tseries_300.jpg)
HP Pavilion Slimline s3300t series (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&a1=Usage&v1=Entertainment+and+multimedia&series_name=s3300t_series)
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OMG, I just checked the page of that HP and it's got a tray!!!! That's ridiculous! Haven't they learned from Apple yet?
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Sorry for late response da9000, but I don't have an X-ray of an A3000 mobo.
Oh yes, I almost forgot to make my usual request to Erol and Tahoe: I wantz yur floppy PCB serialz numberz, K THX.
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No worries X-ray. I'll hopefully get to do that one day.
Here's a free bump as well, so that Erol and Tahoe can get you those floppy serialz. Come on boys, get with the program! :-)
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Bumped because Erol and Tahoe still haven't got back to me about the board numbers on their disk modules, and I wantz those.