Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: AmigaMac on November 16, 2002, 05:31:53 AM
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I was just curious if anyone is thinking about jumping the fence for Pegasos and MorphOS? I'll have to admit that though I am more inclined to have an AmigaOne and AOS 4, but I am more impressed with what Pegasos has to offer in regards to hardware components. The 'geek port' (as they say in BeOS land) is what impresses me most, though the Dual G3/G4 option is also nice. But does MorphOS take advantage of a dual CPU configuration, or will the apps with any type of MP awareness be the only benefactors?
Who supports Pegasos and MorphOS, where is their 'Community' or are there some here amongst you?
Just curious on what is going through some of your guys (and gals if any) mind on the whole thing...
Oh I'm not trying to start a flamewar or anything!
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MOS will support multiple processors.. HENES a developer said this before.... he said not SMP but multiple CPU's...
as for their community it's basically the same community that is the amiga community...alot of people have jumped ship in light of the A1/OS4's license... and also the fact of MOS bieng out already and purchasable...
They have some good guys on their side their dev team is pretty cool people you can reach them on arcnet... #MorphOS ... I dont go there anymore myself.. but it's an OK place...
MorphOS/Pegasos isnt a bad system although it dosent cater to the 'name only' followers it's an OK system... I dont trust MOS in it's current state very much though because it just isnt stable enough.. it's getting there though...
I was going to get a Pegasos G4 rig just for the MOL/MOS expierance (MOL bieng MacOnLinux).. but decided not to when I decided to get a luggable PC for work :P
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but decided not to when I decided to get a luggable PC for work :P
I have a friend here that just bought a BareBones PC that is mobile basically. He said he didn't mean to buy it, but it looked so cool and he just couldn't resist.
As for Pegasos/MOS, I haven't really kept up on their happenings, except for tidbits here and there from Amiga.org or other news clippings. To be honest, I'm more interested in running BeOS on that board than anything else. I am in discussion with a few guys that are also interested in porting OpenBeOS over to Pegasos, so maybe I'll grab one of these boards just for that and maybe for Linux/MOL as well.
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casedepot (http://www.casedepot.com)
I bought the 17" under portable cases there... it's one of the most cool rigs I ever got...looks incredible... feels incredible... I love the keyboard it's solid like the old time clickys where... I love it ....I'm useing it as a portable workstation./
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>Who supports Pegasos and MorphOS
If you want to know what commercial companies support MorphOS then here is some short list:
Titan Computer (PapyrusOffice, BurnIt Pro (DVD
writing software), Rage Hard, Alien Nation,...)
MotionStudio (MotionStudio (video solution))
IOSpirit (fxPAINT, fxSCAN, ...)
e.p.i.c. interactive (Simon3d, Earth2150 series,
SoftwareTycoon, BirdieShoot,...)
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No.
Personally I can't see how one board can outperform another that uses
the same chipsets, the same CPU, the same drive interface and the same
memory.
The only comparison I can think of is the GFX card market. The best
NVidia cards, for example, only outperform the others by a few FPS and
thats usually because of higher specced ram.
Perhaps someone can explain?
Anyway I'll be happy buying a G4@800Mhz from a company I've dealt with
for years. If I do need Firewire at some point I'll buy a PCI card.
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@AmigaMac:
I was just curious if anyone is thinking about jumping the fence for Pegasos and MorphOS? I'll have to admit that though I am more inclined to have an AmigaOne and AOS 4, butt I am more impressed with what Pegasos has to offer in regards to hardware components. The 'geek port' (as they say in BeOS land) is what impresses me most, though the Dual G3/G4 option is also nice.
What 'geek port'? The AmigaOneXE has a dual-CPU option too. But MOS and AOS4 won't be able to do anything useful with such a setup though.
Basically, the Pegasos is a smaller form factor, has firewire on board and seems to be cheaper.
But does MorphOS take advantage of a dual CPU configuration, or will the apps with any type of MP awareness be the only benefactors?
At the moment, you won't be able to use MOS with a dual-CPU setup. Quark (the MOS kernel) is prepared to support multiple CPUs, but that is not implemented yet. Same goes for OS4's kernel.
Oh I'm not trying to start a flamewar or anything
Too late.
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zacman wrote:
>Who supports Pegasos and MorphOS
If you want to know what commercial companies support MorphOS then here is some short list:
Titan Computer (PapyrusOffice, BurnIt Pro (DVD
writing software), Rage Hard, Alien Nation,...)
MotionStudio (MotionStudio (video solution))
IOSpirit (fxPAINT, fxSCAN, ...)
e.p.i.c. interactive (Simon3d, Earth2150 series,
SoftwareTycoon, BirdieShoot,...)
Earth2150...... I'll buy a Pegasos only for it :-)
AmigaOne or Pegasos?
I don't know.... I havent the money tobuy an A1, Pegasos is cheaper.... But i have a heavy expanded amiga: 060, Voodoo3, SoundBlaster, Power Tower with new ide (1 cd, 1 cdrw, 2 hd) and many other things...... I prefear to buy a SharkG4 for my a1200 but i don't know if it will be ralased OS4 compatible... :-(
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What 'geek port'? The AmigaOneXE has a dual-CPU option too. But MOS and AOS4 won't be able to do anything useful with such a setup though.
I'm talking about the available ports:
*IEEE1394 (Firewire) VIA VT6306 with 100/200/400 MBit data transfer
*10/100 MBit Realtek Phyceiver 8201 Ethernet
*USB I/O system VIA 8231 with four connectors
*AC97 sound subsystem Sigmatel STAC 9766 Codec with mic input, line in/out and headset connector
*IRDA for infra-red remote control
*ATA100 VIA 8231 with two channels for upto four ATA devices
*PS/2 mouse connector
*RS232 (serial) port
*Centronics port
*Gameport for PC-compatible joysticks
Basically overkill similar to the old BeBoxen!
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It's funny that you should bring this topic up, considering my mindset as of late. I too have been thinking about possibly going MOS/Pegasos. As pointed out MANY months ago, the Pegasos seems to be a much nicer board and is quite cheaper than the A1. The hardware dongle issue also makes me lean a bit closer to the MOS camp.
The only problem is, is that I know virtually NOTHING about MorphOs. The official MorphOs website is filled with too much technical jargon, no screenshots, no information that means anything to an average end user like me. Even with as little as we know about OS4, it is much more than I know about MorphOs (seeing that I have never owned a PPC card and never have seen the older MOS betas).
Personally, I think MOS camp needs to show the world what it has a bit better.
Sadly, my REAL aspiration was to have the SharkPPC card in my current Mediator A1200 setup running OS4...it doesn't look very good at this moment to appear, although I really hope I am wrong.
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Hi.
Here (http://www.morphos-news.de/) you can find some more detailed info about MOS. I have not seen it myself yet.
Coder
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>The only problem is, is that I know virtually
>NOTHING about MorphOs. The official MorphOs
>website is filled with too much technical jargon, no
>screenshots, no information that means anything
>to an average end user like me
Check morphos-news.de for more details about
MorphOS and news concerning it.
The "MorphOS in Detail" document which has been released yesterday was just the beginning. You
know it's pre-Aachen-show-time - every week a new
surprise ;)
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Zadoc wrote:
Sadly, my REAL aspiration was to have the SharkPPC card in my current Mediator A1200 setup running OS4...it doesn't look very good at this moment to appear, although I really hope I am wrong.
...hoping with you.... :-(
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I've been with the Amiga for so many years, and now that it's finally due to get a significant update, I am certainly not jumping ship. I admit that the Pegasos looks nice, but as long as it doesn't run AmigaOS, it is of little use to me. I want AmigaOS4. I have good faith in the people who are developing, and think it has a much better chance of surviving commercially than a completely new and unknown OS like MorphOS (no offence intended, I wish the MOS team the best of luck).
Besides, if I was to switch platforms, I doubt it would be towards something *more* obscure than what I have now.
Kay
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The Pegasos and MorphOS look great but im buying an amigaone g4xe and can not afford to Pegasos and MorphOS as well it does look and sound like a very good alternative and seems to have some good support.Is there a dealer thats going to sell Pegasos and MorphOS in the uk. :-D :-?
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I was just curious if anyone is thinking about jumping the fence for Pegasos and MorphOS?
Talk to the hand, the face ain't listening.
...
..
.
NO.
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Im going to stay with Aos 4.0. But it would be nice if Thendic got that license from amiga so I could run the os on the pegasos board.
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I like MOS and the Pegasos is an impressive board, just as good as the XE it seems.
But I have my own idea of where MOS is going and I don't want to go there. This isn't to say it doesn't have a future, it does. But if I bought a Pegasos and waited 3 years down the line I have a very strong suspicion that the only software for it would be rather poor Linux ports. This is MY OPINION, so flames will be ignored or ridiculed.
I'd rather see what OS4 has to offer first.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with AOS4 license and it even protects the users from companies without erm.. good practices.
But I must say I now understand better the MOS people, and they might be right in some few things.
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Well...
I will not run Morphos as I consider it just an AmigaOS clone, that still aren't working properly and still is in Beta. OS4 seems to be the way for me and i look forward to it :-)
The Pegasos board looks nice, is cheaper than the A1 board but unfortunately it is not able to run OS4.
Another thing about the board is that it'ds produced by/at DCE, probably the biggest thieves in Amiga history. There's no way I'm buying stuff produced at their assembly line, I'm not supporting them.
This was not meant as a flame or anything, but simply my opinion. Best wishes to everyone, whatever way they choose to upgrade:-)
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The only comparison I can think of is the GFX card market. The best NVidia cards, for example, only outperform the others by a few FPS and
thats usually because of higher specced ram
and the GPU itself bieng superior...but yeah your right... it isnt 'performance' so much as it is features people argue...the ability to run two CPU's in the future... the ability to use firewire/spdif and the the onboard sound...I see those as a very minor value and it's only a small reason of why I like it over the A1... the A1 is almost the same...its the license issues and the lack of a product right now that turned me.
But as I said before I dont intend on getting either right now... got my luggable it's fine
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Once OS4 is released and I have an A1 system I'm going to search for a local user who has a Pegasos and MorphOS so I can give a really good comparison between the two. I know MorphOS isn't done, but neither is OS4. I've heard from a few people who have seen/used MorphOS first hand that it lacks quite a few neccessary functions before it can be released as a full 1.0. I'm hoping my side by side comparison between the two completed products will alieviate any questions which still remain. The problem I'm having though is finding a local user near me who will be purchasing a Pegasos.
:pint:
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Okay Kent, we'll be awaiting your comparison review in the near future hopefully :-D
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I'll probably wait for a while to see how both choices progress...
I don't have enough money to go for one System and if that fails change to the other one.
What would be really great to see was everybody (OS4 and MOS) joining efforts to make a really great System!!
See ya!
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I agree both systems do need to mature quite a bit... A2/Pegasos2 will probably be comparison time... MOS is very unstable and prone to gliching...but AOS isnt done yet to compare with it... and we're all just going to have to wait I guess and see what ends up happening with both... my guesstimate is it'll be a year or more before both systems reach their aprox-stability high-point...and by then A1/Pegasos will be VERY obselete...so A2/Pegasos2 should be comming along :P
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Both systems look tempting, however AOS5's multiplatform nature seems damn impressive.
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@Zadoc
"The hardware dongle issue also makes me lean a bit closer to the MOS camp."
I really don't understand this concern. If you buy OS4 bundled with an AmigaOne why would you care if licensing restrictions are in place to prevent someone else from copying it?
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their in place to keep AOS4 tied to that hardware....so you buy A1... it's the only board that'll ever run OS4 ...you cant buy a Pegasos or another board a year or two down the line and stick AOS4 on it..and since they seem clamped to having obselete equipment have the license... you wont be able to upgrade(except to their next-gen obselete equipment)... that's why I dont want to touch AOS4 ...if enough people complain they will release it as a 'normal' OS and not a bundled one... I hope that happens...if not... I wont touch it
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I just cross-posted a news item on the MorphOS article that was release yesterday:
MorphOS Article (HTML) (http://www.blachford.info/morphos/morphos_in_detail.html)
Interesting gameplan, particularly for the future (64-bit, X-Windows, multiprocessor support). But, the dependency on the PPC and unwillingness to consider the x86 due to context switching is a bit limiting to me.
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ne_one I agree entirely... sticking to PPC only is a dead end for anyone... that is very narrow minded and zealous of them and if they hope to have a real future they should move to hardware people can afford and will want to buy... that may happen in time... for now I think their doing an OK job.
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A1 is obsolete and pegasos ain't?
You crack me up mips...
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Both cards are ! "obsolete" but theyre both a hell of a lot bether then what "Amiga users" have axxes to now if you dont count Amithlon or AROS! i have not seen OS4 yet nor have i seen a AmigaOne yet but i will end up buying them and check it out! i do however have a Pegasos in my hands and MorphOS! all i can say so far is that is has potential and that it has some nice things AmigaOS didnt have! BUT its nowere near a public release for end users in my eyes! ive had some weeks now to toy with it and its pretty buggy and lots of things are still not working yet! the Bios itself says version 0.1beta (and a lot of numbers more) and the OS itself is passed v1.0 already but it would NOT be if i were giving it version numbers! this IS beta software if not Alpha! and if MOS is so far ahead of OS4 as people keep saying i cant but wonder what state OS4 is in! in the end im happy with my purchase of the Pegasos and MOS! its a nice litle board (i just love not having to listen to all the fans making noise like in my PC) and ill keep on updating the OS untill its in the shape were its passed beta state! and if youre sick of waiting go ahead and buy one! its here now at least and its as much AmigaOS as OS4 is without the name! if youre not happy you can always sell it or wait for someone to hack OS4 to run on Pegasos if not Hyperion ports it themself.
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well Elektro lets assume I buy the solderd on A1.....and I decide I hate A1 and I want another board...but I dont want to pay the premium for Eyetech hardware....I cant go and get Pegasos with a g4 on it... I have the pay the premium...
their all obselete compared to PC"s...it's just a matter of how much the company is ripping you off and how obselete the hardware actually is...eyetech's is just the most extreme of the two and thus the one I would avoid... the reason it's bad is because once you pay for the A1 if you dont like it you're screwed since you cant put AOS4 onto anything except the A1... at least If you buy MorphOS you're able to adapt and change... with AOS you're stuck on one 'line' of boards...all seeming to be consistent crap... the XE has a 'little' respect of mine but it still costs more then the Peggy with a G4...
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I hear bleating. Could it be the PC sheep again? I really don't know why they bother coming to an Amiga site. Oh, I forgot - the PC has no community. Figures.
sticking to PPC only is a dead end for anyone... that is very narrow minded and zealous of them and if they hope to have a real future they should move to hardware people can afford and will want to buy...
It may be narrow minded, but at least it's showing some glimmer of independent thought, and a will to keep the Amiga apart from the scourge of computing - the corporations. Thinking suddenly changing AmigaOS to x86 will save it is both naive and selfish. You have PCs, run Windows on them like the were designed for and stop trying to drag us down with you. If the Amiga has to die, let it die with Intel and AMD on the outside.
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So where IS the ####ing G4 Pegasos? You go out and buy that, the rest go out and buy the G4 AmigaOne. See who gets delivered first.
And all this talk about how you have more choice with a Pegasos. What? Are you gonna buy a 1000$ computer and throw it in the trash to use the OS on your calculator or something? You need to start making some frigging sense, dude.
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>So where IS the ####ing G4 Pegasos? You go out
>and buy that, the rest go out and buy the G4
>AmigaOne. See who gets delivered first
Wonderful sentence. See you in Aachen ;)
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You have PCs, run Windows on them like the were designed for and stop trying to drag us down with you
drag you down?... hah... thats niave and selifish... thinking Amiga 'has' to stay PunyPC to keep bigots happy./
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And all this talk about how you have more choice with a Pegasos. What? Are you gonna buy a 1000$ computer and throw it in the trash to use the OS on your calculator or something? You need to start making some frigging sense, dude.
you have moure choice in that MorphOS wont be tied to one board... and one company... their open to let MorphOS run on Mac's potentially... PDA's... even the AmigaOne...not closed minded
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Fine then I'll just download mos when it's out and install it on the A1...
:destroy:
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Currently there are four scheduled configurations on which to run the Amiga OS (60X, G3, G3 expandable, & G4), and that is not counting the option to just buy the board.
While I'm for licensing in such a market, actually, it is MorphOs that will not allow their OS to run on Amiga One. However, who would need it to run when you are running A OS4.X. MorphOS is just one of many ways to run Amiga programs on an non-Amiga architecture. Worst yet, it is an OS that will have little support for native features. I'd much rather run Linux and Amiga--which I can do on an Amiga One. Who wants to be stuck with a MorphOs machine? especially with questions related to support and the possibility of legal issues. Sounds very risky to me; there are dozens of other OSs out there that are more viable than MorphOs. Lastly, I'm also not sure how a G4 + a top of the line graphics card=obsolete.
This is not to say I'm buying an AOne--I'll wait for OS4.0 and for some extra change in hand, but, no, I wouldn't cosider MorphOS.
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drag you down?... hah... thats niave and selifish... thinking Amiga 'has' to stay PunyPC to keep bigots happy./
No more naive and selfish than thinking we have to throw away our future as a platform just to keep the speed freaks and cheapskates happy.
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You should say, who wants to get an Itanium? Which well soon turn into the Hombre clone. A lot already.This isnt rebillion but the only logical way. Make way for the Hoooombre clone. :-D :-)
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I have already purchased an AmigaOne and will happily continue to use it, regardless of what OS I end up with.
I can use Linux but like it only a little more than Windows (It is difficult to configure, starting to get bloated and the "holy wars" beteen the developers over things like Window managers is resulting in two incompatable code forks).
That being said, If OS4 and Morphos flops I am happy that I still can use Linus (mac on linux anyone???).
I am a "OS Geek" and just love trying new OSes and believe that the Morphos Q-Box has the potential to develop into a good new OS option.
If Morphos gets released as a "shrink wrap" product I will ahppily purchase it and install it on my A-One.
I think that the community does not need to divide itself, If AROS, Amith*???, OS4 and Morphos all survive and continue to be "somwhat" compatable with each others applications it is a good thing.
What I would most like to see however, is for all the various Amiga OS makers to get together and develop "Open APIs" which allows programmers to write their applications once and not need to re-code to support all flavours (recompile if required).
The second best option would be to have AmigaDE ported to all those OS Flazours so that applications can be written once and used universally.
.... Back to the real world ....
I will happily run AmigaOs4, Morphos, Linux (MOL???) and AROS and will make my final decision on which OS I will favour based on which one MEETS MY NEEDS BEST.
I do not understand why these need to be mutually exclusive options.
Regards
Darren
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newbee wrote:
If Morphos gets released as a "shrink wrap" product I will ahppily purchase it and install it on my A-One.
Yeah, that's also the way most people think about an OS (at least the people who even know what an OS is and have heard of something else than Windows... ;)), and it applies to e.g. AmigaOS as well. "Can I buy it and run on my (current|preferred|cheaper|better|whatever) hardware?"
I do not understand why these need to be mutually exclusive options.
Precisely! This "join the rebellion" or "follow the 'official' path" crap must look ridiculous to anyone "on the outside" looking in.
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I have FULL confidence in Hyperion to make
OS4 cool .... the twins code so well me and my
mates call 'em "the Magi" (after the human
computer brains on Evangelion) the games they make will run on the Os THEY coded ... makes for
good results Opus Magelan YAY etc :-D
Call me a name follower but officialy the future look
very bright indeed ;-)
PS I would not buy a version of AmigaOS that was
also avalible on X86 it is a slow death & very painful.
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MOS (http://www.regalweb.co.uk/loony/animated/peeman211.gif) MOS
:-D :-D
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I think that were it not for the fact that Hyperion are managing the OS4 project and developement I would have given up on it quite some time ago. OS4 means a lot mor than just the Amiga name to me
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Precisely! This "join the rebellion" or "follow the 'official' path" crap must look ridiculous to anyone "on the outside" looking in.
i agree!
when i first heard about the amigaone i was very happy :-), then i heard about the pegasos and was happier still :-D ! not because i think its a better board(which it may well be), but just because of the choice, i hope ill be able to buy one and then be able to change my mind later, im not the sort to barrick for one or the other.
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ne_one,
Hey... I just wanted to say, AWESOME AVATAR!!! 8-)
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@AmigaMac
"Hey... I just wanted to say, AWESOME AVATAR!!!"
Thanks dude. You may actually be seeing more of our work soon.
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@Elektro
Very clever, but you must have WAY WAY TOO MUCH TIME on your hands at the moment.....
Regards
Darren
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newbee wrote:
I have already purchased an AmigaOne and will happily continue to use it, regardless of what OS I end up with.
I can use Linux but like it only a little more than Windows (It is difficult to configure, starting to get bloated and the "holy wars" beteen the developers over things like Window managers is resulting in two incompatable code forks).
That being said, If OS4 and Morphos flops I am happy that I still can use Linus (mac on linux anyone???).
I am a "OS Geek" and just love trying new OSes and believe that the Morphos Q-Box has the potential to develop into a good new OS option.
If Morphos gets released as a "shrink wrap" product I will ahppily purchase it and install it on my A-One.
I think that the community does not need to divide itself, If AROS, Amith*???, OS4 and Morphos all survive and continue to be "somwhat" compatable with each others applications it is a good thing.
What I would most like to see however, is for all the various Amiga OS makers to get together and develop "Open APIs" which allows programmers to write their applications once and not need to re-code to support all flavours (recompile if required).
The second best option would be to have AmigaDE ported to all those OS Flazours so that applications can be written once and used universally.
.... Back to the real world ....
I will happily run AmigaOs4, Morphos, Linux (MOL???) and AROS and will make my final decision on which OS I will favour based on which one MEETS MY NEEDS BEST.
I do not understand why these need to be mutually exclusive options.
Regards
Darren
so you purchased an outofdate pc that was overpriced then and now is way overpriced. No wonder why the real amiga community left.
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Well, I think people are happy to buy an AmigaOne since it is the next Amiga platform (runs AmigaOS 4.0).
I can't see why the hell MorphOS are forcing new users to buy their own platform - cmon they aren't Amiga Inc for Christ sake!!
IMHO they should have made it able to run on the AmigaOne or Mac. What would have been *really* good is if they had made it x86 native - it they had done that I think they would have filled a nice little niche that AmigaOS 4.0 can't fill (at the moment).
Also Pegasos should get an AmigaOS licence - hardware competition has to be better for prices.
Anyway that's my thoughts. I want AmigaOS for x86 dammit :(
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sounds not bad: morphos_in_detail (http://www.blachford.info/morphos/morphos_in_detail.html)
"... Applications shall run in the Q-Box and make API calls via a message passing system. The API shall not be locked to any single programming language so application developers will not be required to learn a new language. The message passing is also extremely fast, instead of transferring the data in the message, the memory location of the message is remapped to the application where the message is due. Small messages are directly copied as this method is faster for very small amounts of data.
The message passing system used within MorphOS means the system can be highly scalable. The components sending and receiving messages can be running on different processors or even physically different computers and the messages will still get there. A windowing system over a network (a-la The X Windowing System) could be implemented in this manner but the result is likely to be a great deal more responsive. An X Windows compatible wrapper is planned so X Windows applications can be ported but the resulting speed on the desktop will be very different from those using current X Windows implementations.
The distributed capability of Q messaging means clustering will be possible without having to rewrite the entire OS. Applications requiring massive numbers of processors will be relatively simple to write under Q ..."
What plans has Amiga in that direction?
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Stop spreading uneducated bullshit...
MorphOS' A/Box is FULLY PPC native and
has *MANY* new features. It has everything
you might want except full Memory Protection,
which is NOT possible with the AmigaOS API,
except if you run old progs in a sandbox and the
rest of the os and new apps seperately, EXACTLY
what MorphOS will do with the Q/Box and what
Hyperion plans to do in the future.
The difference is that MorphOS is already ready
for that change, while OS4 is not just yet.
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""by AmiGR on 2002/11/17 11:40:18
Stop spreading uneducated bullshit...
MorphOS' A/Box is FULLY PPC native and
has *MANY* new features. It has everything
you might want except full Memory Protection,
which is NOT possible with the AmigaOS API,
except if you run old progs in a sandbox and the
rest of the os and new apps seperately, EXACTLY
what MorphOS will do with the Q/Box and what
Hyperion plans to do in the future.
The difference is that MorphOS is already ready
for that change, while OS4 is not just yet.""
Cool! can you give me an URL to the compleat non beta Pegasos/MOS system please.
Anything beta means not ready to me & i will never pay for beta knowingly.
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@AmiGR
It has everything you might want
How about something as standard as a usable and stable/reliable web browser which eveyone seems to forget about.
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"The hardware dongle issue also makes me lean a bit closer to the MOS camp."
I really don't understand this concern. If you buy OS4 bundled with an AmigaOne why would you care if licensing restrictions are in place to prevent someone else from copying it?
Well, my concern is this: when OS4 was announced, shortly afterwords Elbox was touting their SharkPPC card saying that it would run OS4. Much later the Pegasos board was announced as well which is a nicer (in my opinion) board than the A1.
Now it seems, mainly due to this 'dongle' issue that SharkPPC's and PegasOs boards (which are hardware compliant) wont be running OS4. I just don't care for this approach, seeing as the end user will probably have to pay more money for a 'dongled' board due to licensing costs. If WinXP required dongled x86 boards, there would be an uproar from people having to pay for Microsoft to physically dongle every x86 board on the market.
I am all for some form of anti-piracy measure, but I just think this is the wrong way to go about doing it.
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If WinXP required dongled x86 boards, there would be an uproar from people having to pay for Microsoft to physically dongle every x86 board on the market.
Well other than building your own and/or buying a whitebox (brandless) PC, that's exactly what you're doing! How do you think Microsoft got some of its marketshare... it's forced upon the consumer regardless if Windows is shipped with a branded PC or not!
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Ok, now reread my posting and rereply...
I said it is ready FOR THAT CHANGE...
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""Well, my concern is this: when OS4 was announced, shortly afterwords Elbox was touting their SharkPPC card saying that it would run OS4. Much later the Pegasos board was announced as well which is a nicer (in my opinion) board than the A1.
Now it seems, mainly due to this 'dongle' issue that SharkPPC's and PegasOs boards (which are hardware compliant) wont be running OS4. I just don't care for this approach, seeing as the end user will probably have to pay more money for a 'dongled' board due to licensing costs"
Where have you been over the last 6 months.
The licensing costs nothing & flashing the Bios dont cost much either
And seeing both the pegasos & the Aone have to reflash the Bios anyway as none of then use the bio info that came as standard. The cost of adding the Aos4 key at the same time in the bios=O
Aos4 will work on PPC cards there is no reason why it wont work on the shark & issue of the shark atm is not the dongle its the fact that Elbox will not send hyperion a board or a spec sheet.
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> eyetech will not send hyperion a board or a spec sheet.
I'm assuming you mean Elbox, not Eyetech. I don't mean to be pedantic, I just thought I'd point it out to prevent any misunderstandings, in case someone who hasn't been paying attention reads this.
Kay
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Thanks Kay ill edit that :)
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http://jp.planas.free.fr/main.htm
MOS Whats that all about then
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Yeah .. I'm thinking about going the Pegasos/Morphos route.
I've seen the machine actually up and Usably running....
MUCH MORE than can be said for the NameONE.
Then again.... I might just go buy myself a screaming Athlon & Suse.
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@ newbee
too much time? took me 2 minutes to find the peeing guy and post it here...
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http://jp.planas.free.fr/main.htm
what the hell is that?
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what the hell is that?
Looks like more 'uselessware' for Windows to me!
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Is anybody thinking about joining the Rebellion (Pegasos/MOS)?
Ask me again in February. I'm just gonna sit this one out until I can compare both options. I need to see the final products first.
I may decide to go for neither.
Who knows? Who cares? Not me.
-zudo
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@Zadoc
"If WinXP required dongled x86 boards, there would be an uproar from people having to pay for Microsoft to physically dongle every x86 board on the market."
Er... XP does have a dongle -- it's called the internet.
Don't like anti-piracy measures? How does it grab you that your PC is open to scrutiny to the maker of the operating system? Of course, no one bootlegs software or downloads porn so why worry? ;-)
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ne_one:
Bang on :-)
It's also worth noting that M$ are going several steps further down a much darker road that makes a dongle look like not such a bad thing afterall.
http://www.iscnetwork.com/ISC/Palladium.htm (http://www.iscnetwork.com/ISC/Palladium.htm)
Put that in your pipe and smoke it ;-)
-zudo
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I think morphos and amiga should work together because war between the two will hurt the Amiga community.
http://www.beatjapan.org/mirror/www.be.com/support/qandas/faqs/faq-0058.html
is the link. here is the text:
Why is it called the "GeekPort," anyway?
The BeBox:
Specifications
FAQ Number:
FAQ-0058
Last Modified:
2/3/98
Keywords:
BeOS, BeBox, Specifications, GeekPort, design, philosophy
What do you call people who design their own stuff to plug into their computers, especially analog stuff? What would you call a port designed specifically for them?
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Don't like anti-piracy measures?
AOS4 will be pirated all to hell the second it ships...no dongle has EVER stopped anything from bieng pirated... in fact their form of anti-piracy is the MOST flakey.
How does it grab you that your PC is open to scrutiny to the maker of the operating system?
WinXP's got a real anti-piracy measure... the internet... activation has stopped tons of people from pirating it... did they stop selling retail? no... they just added a feature.
PC's run more then just XP aswell NetBSD/OpenBSD/FreeBSD/Linux/BeOS...etc..
Of course, no one bootlegs software or downloads porn so why worry?
of course people bootleg... people will bootleg OS4 and other amiga apps... especially those who cant afford the very expensive A1 ...they may turn to buying the cheap Linux-Dev version from eyetech.
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My mind isn't made up, but I'm more inclined to believe MorphOS is the real deal.
1) It will be 100% PowerPC native. The 3.x compatible libraries are native. I have lived through Mac OS's 68k to PowerPC transition, it was painful. Mac OS X was less painful because it was written from scratch. On this basis I'm more inclined to use something built for a new platform from scratch than a port.
2) The only thing running on the A1 is ExecSG which is useless on its own. I think people are far too optimistic regarding how long it will take for the complete OS to be ported. Even when it is there is little telling what percentage of the OS will be native. MacOS was LESS dependent on specialized chips than AmigaOS and it took many years for a fully PowerPC version to surface.
Switching between 68k and PowerPC contexts isn't costless. On paper I expect MorphOS to be faster on similar hardware.
Anyway, I already spent a lot of money on the 'establishment', a PowerBook Titanium. I won't be able to buy new hardware in a long time.
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"2) The only thing running on the A1 is ExecSG which is useless on its own. I think people are far too optimistic regarding how long it will take for the complete OS to be ported. Even when it is there is little telling what percentage of the OS will be native. MacOS was LESS dependent on specialized chips than AmigaOS and it took many years for a fully PowerPC version to surface."
i would not complare the porting of MacOS to PPC with the porting of AmigaOs to ppc.
as they are nothing alike & the sizes of the oses are nothing alike.
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Hey mips_proc,
You say the dongle is the most flakey form of anti-piracy. I don't believe that is true. Surely those wheel things that came with monkey island games or entering a word from a certain page of the manual is slightly more flakey..? Or what about those lens things that you hold up to the screen to see two letters in the scrambled mess of pixels? I had a paint program on the spectrum (which also came with a mouse!) that had one of those things. The thing is it never worked properly and it would take 2-3 attempts to get into the program. (joke)Please Amiga Inc, drop the dongle thing and use that bloody lens system instead. Just to piss everyone off a little bit more.(/joke)
It's true that most dongles in the past have been fairly easy to crack, but if a dongle is done right, it can be unbeatable! Especially if the dongle contains crucial elements of the code so that nothing works without it and also uses a strong ecryption method.
Also, do you know how much cheaper the Linux-Dev version of the boards from Eyetech will cost? I've had a quick look at the site and I can't find anything. Is it really much cheaper??? If yes, why hasn't anyone complained?
-zudo
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i would not complare the porting of MacOS to PPC with the porting of AmigaOs to ppc.
as they are nothing alike & the sizes of the oses are nothing alike.
Indeed, MacOS is LESS dependent on specialized chips.
As for size the toolbox was quite small. Are you implying AmigaOS was smaller? They were both designed to fit on a ROM.
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You say the dongle is the most flakey form of anti-piracy.
It most certinly is... I've been useing NewTek Lightwave for years...has their dongle stopped anything?...nope
same with Scala's? did it work? nope... I've yet to see a dongle system work..
as for the price of the dev boards... It's roughly 200 cheaper IIRC...
A.inc's dongle system is just a system to keep AOS off hardware suchas Pegasos or Mac's... because they get more money from you if you buy the A1 or other systems....
I hope they wise up and give the community and computer world as large a chance to see AOS on at least generic PPC hardware....and not this romed/dongled box....
If they dont I agree with strobe MorphOS it will be and that will be an end of it...
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mips_proc,
Ok, I see what you are getting at now.
If the dongle (am I the only one that thinks thats a silly name?) works, it's going to limit what OS4 will run on. (Is that truly the only limiting factor?)
If it doesn't work (and you are saying it won't) then many people will buy cheaper hardware and get hold of pirated copies of OS4 (!!! bastards !!!) just for kicks.
My thoughts on the price... Maybe Amiga Inc are getting quite a large sum of money per A1 board sold, but hey, they need it if you believe the rumours. And am I wrong for thinking that OS4/AmigaOne is intended for people who want to get their AmigaOS fix asap, or developers, or people that don't like too much hardware choice? Everybody else will just have to wait for OS5 if they want to run AmigaOS on a wider list of hardware... or did I miss something?
I'm confused. I'll sleep it off and see whats posted tomorrow. Thanks in advance for your help.
-zudo
ps. Are you admitting to using pirated software? ;-)
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"I hope they wise up and give the community and computer world as large a chance to see AOS on at least generic PPC"
what generic PPC are you on about ?
there aint any.
All there IS, is the AmigaOne,Pegasos,the amigappc cards out atm & Aos4 will run on all but the pegasos &
Mos will run on All but the Aone as things stand ATM. so there is no differnce ATM anyway.
& this talk about ruunig an a Mac was brought up by ppl wanting Aos4 first now MOS are saying the same thing.
untill it happends it means sh** to me as i have seen sooo many times about what will come out for this & that to the point that i dont care untill its here.
i will buy on what its got to offer now more than what it may have in a future.
if whats its got now is not good enough then dont even bother with it now, just wait untill its got what you want before buying it.
Even some of my old SW has said addon packs will be avaliable but did.
But did i really care, NO as i did not buy the damn game for the 8 more fighters to follow in the addon pack that never came out.
I bought the game for what did have.
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@zudobug
If it doesn't work (and you are saying it won't) then many people will buy cheaper hardware and get hold of pirated copies of OS4
People will certainlly pirate OS4 for amigas what have those PPC card boards and as soon as someone cracks this magic dondle then it will be open to use the same hardware as the A1 but with the extra benefit of it being a lot cheaper,
anyone that seriously think these sort of anti-pirate measures will protect anything are misguided, just look at Sonys new protection which can be bypassed by using nothing other than a cheap felt tip pen (non permanant)
The only real way to stop piracy is to never release anything :-D :-D :-D