Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Noster on October 14, 2006, 10:19:47 PM
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Hi,
I'm on the Amiga Meeting in Germany and have just seen a demonstration of the new browser named Sputnik.
WOW!!! A working browser on the Amiga (Pegasos).
It looks really good, cannot await the first beta-release at the end of this month or in the next month.
Noster
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A working browser on the Amiga (Pegasos).
Since when was the pegasos a Amiga?
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Since when was the pegasos a Amiga?
In this context it is an Amiga.
Sputnik is the first full-fledged modern browser (CSS et all) on any amigoid system.
Since it runs on MorphOS, there is nothing stopping it from running on other amiga systems aswell (MorphOS is free (http://powerup.morphos-team.net/) for classic Amiga systems, even!)
..except perhaps bad attitudes.
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morphos != Amiga in all contexts
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Why still argue about this ? Amiga in 2006 is MOS, AOS4, AROS and classic 3.X...
And this is great news, cant wait to see it in action!
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Oh to have a PPC-based Amiga to try this with!
I wonder if there's any possibility of a 68K back-port?
@Tomas: Since when is anything later than an A4000T an Amiga?! :-)
- Ali
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Tomas wrote:
A working browser on the Amiga (Pegasos).
Since when was the pegasos a Amiga?
It's funny that nowadays there's still people being bothered by Pegasos being 'called' Amiga... :roll:
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@Tomas,
That argument is so 2004. Lets move on please.... :roll:
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weirdami wrote:
morphos != Amiga in all contexts
No more amiga than aros. MorphOS is indeed similar to AmigaOS, but still it is just a clone. And i am in no ways saying that MorphOS is inferior to AmigaOS. Why do you keep on clinging to the amiga name? Why not instead focus on strengthening the MorphOS or Pegasos brand instead? Pegasos or MorphOS wont be Amiga unless the brand owner "amiga inc" and Genesi and OS devs make some kind of agreement.
This is indeed good news, but it dosent have much to do with amiga until it has been ported. If you call it amiga news because MorphOS runs on the classic, then we already have by your definition modern browers like firefox, konqueror and so on running just fine on Amiga already.
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If you call it amiga news because MorphOS runs on the classic, then we already have by your definition modern browers like firefox, konqueror and so on running just fine on Amiga already.
But you can't run those browsers alongside with amiga applications.
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If you call it amiga news because MorphOS runs on the classic, then we already have by your definition modern browers like firefox, konqueror and so on running just fine on Amiga already.
Yeah. These appz run fine on hardware which has been AMIGA branded, but hosted by an alien OS (linux BTW)
Sputnik will run on an amiga like environment and along side with AOS and MOS appz.
In fact, if you run MOS on a classic, you will not notice is the system you´re using its called MorphOS or AmigaOS, since they are step-brothers ( well, except MOS will be faster than AOS 3.x by category )
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Tomas :roll:.
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Tomas wrote:
A working browser on the Amiga (Pegasos).
Since when was the pegasos a Amiga?
since I saw it and got myself a peg and can run various amiga programs on it.
same with WinUAE and AROS - all of which I have and play with.
It's "Amiga" because THAT is how I USE it.
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Witches, Sheep rustlers, Pegasos users... round 'em up!
(http://www.cprf.ru/clipart/misc/gallows.jpg)
:laughing:
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I would certainly love to see a 68k version.
My only problem with the currently "multiple" platforms is the attitude of some to make software "specific" for one platform, and in many cases for no other reason than some kind of odd "platform" spite which makes no sense to me.
Can't we all be friends and work together ?
The similarities between os4/morphos and 68k os3.x mean that it is not impossible to support all from a single source base (take yam as an example)...
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It isn't a matter of "spite". Many developers simply cannot afford to have all the incarnations of Amigas that are out there. Nor the time to develop for all of them. It may be that the developer cannot afford a 68K Amiga, a PPC Amiga, and a PegasOS. The development software can also be expensive.
If you visit the web site of the Sputnik developer you will see that he doesn't own any Amigas. Just a Peg board. And he's using a donated version of Cubic IDE for development. Maybe you should offer to send him one of your 68K Amigas or send him some money to develop Sputnik for the other systems. I'm sure he'd appreciate it and it would also help the rest of the community.
Here's the link to his site: http://www.ppa.pl/khtml/index_en.php
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cecilia wrote:
Tomas wrote:
A working browser on the Amiga (Pegasos).
Since when was the pegasos a Amiga?
since I saw it and got myself a peg and can run various amiga programs on it.
same with WinUAE and AROS - all of which I have and play with.
It's "Amiga" because THAT is how I USE it.
It just aint, no matter how much you want it to be. You cannot slap a brand name on it, unless the person who owns the brand give you permission to do so. The fact is that it is Amiga inc who decides what is or is not a amiga and there is nothing we can do about it. They can easily slap the name onto a standard beige x86 running XP and there is sadly nothing we can do about that.
I think most of you dont get my point. I have absolutely nothing against either pegasos or morphos and i would not mind owning one myself. I also believe that the pegasos board is better than the amigaones, but that does not change the fact that amigaone is currently the only ppc board that is licensed as a Amiga.
I hate this licensing crap myself..
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Play nice!
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that does not change the fact that amigaone is currently the only ppc board that is licensed as a Amiga.
A boingball sticker on a generic mobo/case does not make it an Amiga.
Dammy
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My Aros boxes are an Amiga.
And my XP box with Winuae too.
Well said Cecilia!
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by Argo:
Play nice!
MorphOS, Aros, AmigaOS users...
"Be excellent to each other!"
(http://www.boxofficeprophets.com/images2/billandted1026.jpg)
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It just aint, no matter how much you want it to be. You cannot slap a brand name on it, unless the person who owns the brand give you permission to do so. The fact is that it is Amiga inc who decides what is or is not a amiga and there is nothing we can do about it. They can easily slap the name onto a standard beige x86 running XP and there is sadly nothing we can do about that.
Is that bad having Amiga like systems promoting the brand for free? Gee...
And you're comparing WindowsXP with MorphOS/AROS? :roll:
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Tomas wrote:
cecilia wrote:
Tomas wrote:
A working browser on the Amiga (Pegasos).
Since when was the pegasos a Amiga?
It's "Amiga" because THAT is how I USE it.
It just aint, no matter how much you want it to be. You cannot slap a brand name on it, unless the person who owns the brand give you permission to do so. The fact is that it is Amiga inc who decides what is or is not a amiga and there is nothing we can do about it. They can easily slap the name onto a standard beige x86 running XP and there is sadly nothing we can do about that.
I think most of you dont get my point. I have absolutely nothing against either pegasos or morphos and i would not mind owning one myself. I also believe that the pegasos board is better than the amigaones, but that does not change the fact that amigaone is currently the only ppc board that is licensed as a Amiga.
I hate this licensing crap myself..
I get your point, but I am not connected to any company and at this point in Amiga history what a company claims is simply not relevant to me.
yes, of course they have LEGAL rights and all that, but I'm not talking about that because that's not the way I live with and use "Amiga".
"Amiga" is an idea. not a piece of hardware. and the way I use that Idea it is possible using all flavors of amiga - sure some are more limited than others but software changes constantly. In fact THAT is what makes it fun. New developments happen and with that the thrill of discovery!
For example I've been playing with Lunapaint on AROS. And that copy of AROS is on a flash memory card that's as big as my fingernail (microSD). I would have never predicted that this was possible when I bought my first Amiga2000 in 1989!!!
I don't get that thrill with any other OS.
and ferrellsl: I totally get your point. As amiga users we need to help each other. If this new program is That great it deserves to get ported to other flavors of Amiga.
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If at any time you forget what "Amiga" means, just go back and remember Jay Minor and what he was trying to accomplish. That should set you straight.
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Those screenshots look absolutely fantastic! :-D
Hey so am I right in saying the developer has no plans for a port simply because he doesn't have the necessary hardware?
Well the Amizilla project has raised nearly $10000 and every year goes by without a release date. :-(
Surely we can can raise just a few hundred euro so we can enable this developer to atleast make a 68k port and lift us all outta the dark ages!
I'll easily pledge 100 euro if it helps make this a reality. :-?
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"You cannot slap a brand name on it, unless the person who owns the brand give you permission to do so"
Okay it's an Am*ga. Is that alright for you? lol to me its like arguing that FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD are not BSD or UNIX :)
Anyway I' not a MorphOS user and I'm looking forward for Samantha+AmigaOS4 but when I hear this old argument... argh.
Please, we've been through this a million times :)
I hope he ports sputnik to AmigaOS4 when samantha is out.
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A cell phone running Amiga DE is an Amiga too.
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For example I've been playing with Lunapaint on AROS. And that copy of AROS is on a flash memory card that's as big as my fingernail (microSD). I would have never predicted that this was possible when I bought my first Amiga2000 in 1989!!!
Where didi you get it? I've researched in the past for the possibility of booting AROS from usb, and am yet to find a way, could you share it please?
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the hardcore Amiga community will decide what is and is not "Amiga". Just because Amiga Inc. hold the legal trademarks, it does not mean they define "what Amiga is". As far as i'm concerned, Amiga today is: MorphOS, AOS4 and AROS (and WinUAE setups on x86).
The acid-test for any modern Amiga platform will always come from old Amiga coders, not average "users" who might be fooled , for example, by a Linux setup with some AmigaOS 5 wallpaper slapped on. If the Libraries/APIs are "Amiga" - IT IS AMIGA as far as I'm concerned...does not matter who made the hardware. MorphOS is as close to REAL Amiga as you could possibly get and also adds some nice/modern enhancements.
Pls, don't let Amiga Inc. trick you into beleiving they are Amiga just because they had the financial muscle to buy the trademarks. Although I haven't used it yet, AOS4 fortunately looks to be maintaining the real Amiga essence. They will have to prove themselves again with AOS5 before I adopt THAT as Amiga.
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Well the Amizilla project has raised nearly $10000 and every year goes by without a release date.
I think the project is currently way to demanding for the size of this community. I wish the money had been used for supporting a existing project. Aweb is for example already open source and the task of adding modern features to this browser would be significantly less than porting firefox + depedencies.
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I get your point, but I am not connected to any company and at this point in Amiga history what a company claims is simply not relevant to me.
I guess we kinda understand each other then. I personally dont care wether the OS or box goes under the brand Amiga, as long as it keeps the spirit of the orginal OS. :-)
I just have a very different definition on the brand name.
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Tomas: maybe it could be like amiga (the common noun) and Amiga (the proper noun) :) Like there are many brands which have become common nouns in people's mouths for all products of the category :)
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Aweb is for example already open source and the task of adding modern features to this browser would be significantly less than porting firefox + depedencies.
No, it won't be. You'd need to rewritte whole AWeb engine from scratch to make it CSS, DOM, etc, aware.
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Excuse me in advance for going off-topic in this veryyyyaaaawn interesting discussion. I'd just like to ask: how does Sputnik fare as an "Amiga" browser? Can you tell a bit more about its features compared to a modern navigator like Firefox?
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Can you tell a bit more about its features compared to a modern navigator like Firefox?
When it comes to rendering engine capabilities it's more or less at the same level as Firefox (there are some differences but they are rather minor. FF supports more 'odds' standards and is a bit more tollerant for a broken pages, while Sputnik engine (WebCore) has more complete CSS implementation. Both or them can be called a modern engines). When it comes to user-friendlines of browsers itself... Well, Sputnik don't have any at the moment ;-)
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Will it accept plugins... like a flash plug in for example...If one ever gets written that is !!
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Hi,
Will it accept plugins... like a flash plug in for example...If one ever gets written that is !!
this question was asked during the demonstration too. The devolper wants to add a plugin-interface for just this purpose.
Noster
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DAMNED Multiple post :-(
Noster
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EDIT: Multiple post (I hate the current Amiga browsers) :-(
Noster
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EDIT: As already said: Multiple post :-(
Noster
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pixie wrote:
For example I've been playing with Lunapaint on AROS. And that copy of AROS is on a flash memory card that's as big as my fingernail (microSD). I would have never predicted that this was possible when I bought my first Amiga2000 in 1989!!!
Where didi you get it? I've researched in the past for the possibility of booting AROS from usb, and am yet to find a way, could you share it please?
you don't need to Boot from the USB drive. I don't.
here (http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1652&forum=4&post_id=13285#forumpost13285) a thread which I asked a few questions to get me started. hopefully, that will also help you. in any case that site is great for asking questions of that type.
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All of this discussion of what is and isn't Amiga reminds me of that shareware X11 server for Un/Accelerated Amigas. Never bothered trying it personally.
But it runs X11 with a mostly native Amiga base. Not Unix. As far as I can understand anyway.
Now. A massively theoretical situation here.
Lets say that this layer, or some mythical newer version of it was used as the support framework for Firefox.
Would you say that it is an Amiga browser or a Unix/X11 browser being forced to run on an Classical Amiga platform?
(please ignore memory etc. issues. hypothetical, remember?).
It seems to be more of a semantic argument here.
People have their own beliefs of what may constitute an Amiga. Whether it be a brand, look and feel, platform etc.
Now, people. Play nice.
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Wouldn't it be better to try and make all 'plugins' datatypes instead so they can be used anywhere? It's very doable.
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@Marcik
Any chance of a screenshot. Sounds exciting.
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Steady wrote:
Any chance of a screenshot. Sounds exciting.
http://www.ppa.pl/khtml/index_en.php
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Wouldn't it be better to try and make all 'plugins' datatypes instead so they can be used anywhere? It's very doable.
Making a Flash-datatype isn't the smartest idea.
About a second post:
Colani1200 already posted a link to main homepage, with some screenshots, but you can also watch a movie from a Sputnik presentation in Germany last week - http://meeting2006.morphosi.net/JakubKassim-Sputnik2.mov
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Akiko wrote:
Hey so am I right in saying the developer has no plans for a port simply because he doesn't have the necessary hardware?
Since it's based on open-source, he should at least release the modifications he's made to the backend (WebCore/KHTML). That's assuming he has compiled it as a library, if he has somehow built it all together he'd have to release the source to the whole thing to comply with the LGPL.
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Of course marcik will comply with the LGPL.
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if he has somehow built it all together he'd have to release the source to the whole thing to comply with the LGPL.
LGPL states otherwise. Static linking with LGPL code doesn't mean that whole sources must be published.
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I wasn't suggesting static linking. I was saying if he somehow mashed the libraries into the whole project.
However if he does statically link he should release the source. He can just release the objects of course, but that's not "in the spirit" of the LGPL.
The crux of the work is in his modifications to KHTML to get it to compile under AmigaOS like systems, at least IMHO.
I'm not suggesting he wouldn't follow the LGPL, I'm only saying that for the people concerned about porting, the major parts of his source should become available so that ports can be done.
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I'd also like to put my vote in for a 68k version of Sputnik.
Not only would it be great for Amithlon, UAE, AROS (once the UAE/68k integration is completed) but it would also take care of the whole "OS4 port" issue -- (let's not forget that the version of Ibrowse that OS4 users have been using is 68k!).