Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: swift240 on October 14, 2006, 04:50:00 PM
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Ok sitting here with nothing else better to do.........
I thought to myself, if the A600 and A1200 were to be re-sold as from the years when they first ever came out, and you had 1 single chance of having something on these machines as bog standard what would it be?
USB ?
An PCI slot ?
More than 2 meg of chip ram as standard ?
Fast Ethernet as standard?
Minimum 20Gig HD as standard ?
Or what if you had your choice of things as standard? Straight from the shop.
How would you like the 600 and 1200 or even 4000 to be as standard?
I don`t mean to keep up with these days PC`s, let`s leave that out of it. But a standard Amiga, how would you like to buy it as a bog standard machine? With what inside ?
Mike.
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I would want a A4000T with Zorro & PCI slots standard w/ two video slots. One that would auto switch from NTSC/PAL and the other had built in scandouble/flickerfixer?
:-D
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68060 on board with option for socketed PPC.
DDR memory slots would be nice.
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A1200: more than 2mb chip, definitely. That was the biggest pain for me. And one SIMM slot on the mobo.
A4000T: four more SIMM slots on the mobo and no 16mb limit. Better case, so you don't have to turn it sideways to open.
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Faster and more memory would help.
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PCI slots, because they would allow all of the other things - USB, Ethernet, Firewire, Video, whatever. Of course this is as long as there were drivers.
Every time I look at networking my A2000 I just cannot bring myself to spend $100+ to get a 10Mbit ethernet card, when I can buy a Gigabit PCI card for <$30. Same with USB controller & video.
Pete
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@swift240
Let me see if I can answer you "Swiftly" :-)
1) 8Mb ChipRAM standard (upgradable to 32mb via 72pin SIMM)
2) 68060 as standard (removable) and all chips removable
3) 4 SIMM slots on the Mobo (up to 512mb RAM) or maybe PC133 RAM
4) S-Video OUT as standard with the ability to force PAL into NTSC always 100% ON or NTSC to PAL for UK users
5) a seperate VGA out with the output already scan doubled while still maintianing S-Video OUT in NTSC via the RGB and S-Video Ports
6) AAA Chipset (or at least an entirely new Gfx mode thats compatible with AGA and ECS but displays 16 Million on WB. It should be real cheap to do this as one can maybe Pay ATI for the rights on one of their old NTSC chipsets or even Faroudja (preferably)
7) 24bit sound chips with MP3 decoder x4 (Can decode 4 MP3 at once)
8) 2 Gigabyte sized Kickstart ROM or at least capable to add this. (Why? so you can put more software in it, like DVD display menu, VCD Menu, AudioCD menu.....(Think CD32 or Sony PSOne) WinAMP type Visuals in the ROM so one can play CD with Visuals and control them as well as add your own Gfx.....You have No idea how ESSENTIAL this is!
9) USB 2.0 as standard.......or Ethernet Port or 32bit CardBus instead of PCMCIA
10) SATA Harddrive port instead as well as the IDE one (Buffered)
Thats my Top Ten list in that exact order for an A600/A1200
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@leirbag28: not bad choice!!! i'm with you :-)
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Well thats a cracking start, I like that lot myself.
But to be honest, I think it will be far better to have at least 64Mb of Chip ram and 512 Fast ram.
Hmmm there must be something else we can stick in there someplace?
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@swift240
Well yes.........I would prefer 64mb of CHIPRAm if it wer to be done.......able to be upgraded to 2gigs of ChipRAM/Video memory. and 4 gig FastRAM. I belive this to be totally doable and totally necessary for anyone to be interested..........
There is one more option I wanted to add to the list:
11) A Pentium 4 Chip Slot to drop in a P4 chip if one gets a hold of one........and uses the Amiga Mainboard for all the necessary components it needs..........such as Sound, Video/Gfx input and outpts...........with Amiga Drivers on the PC side if necessary so that no other components are neceassry.................think of it as an ATOnce type thingy that they had for the Amiga 500....except its Pentium 4 and embedded into the Motherboard so that one can run WindowsXP natively at at least 1ghz speed. Imagine being able to pull down the Workbench screen and right behind it is WindowsXP! and running through the S-Video OUT port as well and the RGB port.......giving WindowsXP TRUE native Video OUT rther than the Squished Blurry crap it outputs now.
I can only dream of this........and See it as rather simple and should have been a necessary inclusion by Commodore even in 1994......of course back then it would have been a Pentium II option....heck I would have settled for Pentium I.
A friend of Mine overheard Irving Goulds daughter telling him about How her Father (or uncle...cant remember) was Irving Gould and how he Ruined the opportunity to make Millions by bringing the company down........his own daughter/niece said this to my Amiga owning friend on the phone, who happened to be her Cable TV installer or something like that.
I thought it was an interesting coincidence and interesting conversation..............she lives here in NY.
Mayb I should try to contacte her myself for the Full Down Low :-)
You know........I may be willing to rehire Jack Tramiel to be the Owner of Commodore again and reopen its doors.......or at least to show me the ropes if I was owner of Commodore. Then I would release the Greatest Amiga the world has ever seen.
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PCI slots, because they would allow all of the other things
Ah, but he said PCI SLOT. USB would allow more expanions if were were only allowed one slot.
Plaz
Being nit-picky today.
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So far in this topic, there is not any thing that can not be done.
Its just a case of doing it.
Yes I know its not merely as simple as that, but my point is simple being, it can be done.
Any thing can be done.
The Amiga in its day was years ahead, it should have stayed that way.
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leirbag28 wrote:
@swift240
Well yes.........I would prefer 64mb of CHIPRAm if it wer to be done.......able to be upgraded to 2gigs of ChipRAM/Video memory. and 4 gig FastRAM. I belive this to be totally doable and totally necessary for anyone to be interested..........
One slight problem... you're using a 32bit CPU, it can't address more than 4GB. Also, some of the OS functions can only return addresses within 2GB :(
Which brings me to ask, what the hell you need that much memory for in an Amiga, especially if you're still using a 68k CPU ?
But I'm with you on the 16/24bit gfx in PAL/NTSC modes..gimme gimme gimme
And onboard ethernet and a faster parallel port (or 2)
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Well something the PowerVixxen should have if it is still being worked on is onboard 3D acceleration.
It's a crying shame there wasn't a Blizzard 1230-V with some kind of 3D accelerator on it (a bit like the SuperFX for SNES or SVP/32X for Megadrive).
The Amiga died rapidly around the time the first wave of 3D consoles came out in '94/'95...
Oh, and a dedicated mouse port and two joypad ports so we don't have to fumble at the back of the machine when playing multiplayer!
;-)
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@Doobrey
Quote:
Which brings me to ask, what the hell you need that much memory for in an Amiga, especially if you're still using a 68k CPU ?
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For many many things! For one........leaving your Amiga on For days Rendering Frames into FastRAM! this will be faster!..............but also as an Example.........I constantly Run Multiple Video Applications at once and load Tons if not Hundreds of Animations into RAM for Rapid display LIVE......If I could load 1000 Animations into RAM I would......I use SCALA MM300 and Elan Performer and Max them Out totally..........then I do some Live VJing whenever I am at an event I was invited to or at the Night Club I used to work at, where I had my Amiga connected to 3 Projectors and probably 20 more Video nmonitors at once for 4 hours straight displaying different animations in realtime to the beat of the music.
Using about 4 applicatins at once.........just imagine if I didnt have to switch to a different app to get different visuals.or never running out of Animations or Video.
@Hyperspeed
Quote:
Oh, and a dedicated mouse port and two joypad ports so we don't have to fumble at the back of the machine when playing multiplayer!
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Yeah! thats what I forgot! 4 joystick ports that each support more than 6 buttons for the Joypad and even Vibration feedback. :-)
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hi leirbag28 soon as you have one up and running let me know cos i would love to have the same specs. :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
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The things I'd change would be adding the choice of HSync frequencies, the use of PC floppy drives instead of the custom ones they use that we can't replace now, and of course ChipRAM size.
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I'd say - in retrospect, because I'm not drinking the same kool-aid that some of the other posters in this thread are - that the 1200 should've gone out with an 030 on board and a SIMM socket with a 1, 2 or 4mb SIMM therein.
The 4000...hmm, that's a tough call. PCI hadn't quite arrived when the 4000 hit (PCI debuted in '93, the 4000 in '92). So in lieu of that, I'd say: better IDE, 16 bit sound and although it seems a small thing, a button battery instead of the barrel battery that seems to cause so many problems these days.
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@leirbag28
After seeing some of your recent posts, I can't get this Simpsons quote out of my head: "You... live in a world of make-believe, with leprechauns and magic frogs in tiny little hats."
I would have been happy if the A1200 came out AS IS, but in 1990 or 1991. That could have kept Commodore alive. For 1993/94, the Amiga should have had 24bit colour, 16bit sound and 8Mb chip as standard.
Yeah! thats what I forgot! 4 joystick ports that each support more than 6 buttons for the Joypad and even Vibration feedback.
Vibration feedback??! Vibration feedback makes me physically sick. Thank GOD the Amiga didn't have joypads with vibration feedback.
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Touch screen support
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AGA chipset on a PCI card so it could be updated as C= developed new gfx chipsets to update the A4K. That would have also open the x86 market for Amiga products giving C= more market share.
Dammy
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Original A1200 should have shipped with 68030, 68882 and at least 4mb ram onboard.
But why oh why did no-one make a Voodoo based trapdoor accelerator for it as soon as it was released? It would have made it just slightly faster than the PS1 :-(
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Hmm the question was what would i want in it "today".
I'd have to say something like Oli_hd's Coldfire accelerator, and a PPC with gfx accelerator. Integrated ethernet and USB would be awesome.
I am of course thinking along these lines due to the MiniMig, NatAmi and Clone-A projects :-D
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A1200
68020 -> 68040/68060
2mb chip -> 32/64mb chip
DD Drive -> DVD
IDE -> SATA
Serial, pralell, mouse, joystick -> USB
AGA -> AAA? I don't know. 1280x1024 32 bit would be nice...
PCMCIA -> *insert new and exciting I/O port here*
A4000
Zorro -> PCI-E + PCI (ok ok ok, keep one or two zorro slots then!)
AGA -> No onboard graphics (well, keep the AGA then)
IDE -> SATA + SCSI
Serial, pralell, mouse, joystick -> USB
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AJCopland wrote:
Original A1200 should have shipped with 68030, 68882 and at least 4mb ram onboard.
But why oh why did no-one make a Voodoo based trapdoor accelerator for it as soon as it was released? It would have made it just slightly faster than the PS1 :-(
I agree on the first count, but as for the Voodoo trapdoor, I would have to say that you'd need Picasso96 or Cybergraphix to use it with. I would've been content with the AKIKO standard on all AGA systems instead of just the CD32.
My solution to 3d at the time was to abolish texture maps since Amiga chipset accelerated polygons were strictly pattern-filled. :lol:
On the second count I would have preferred a faster Copper since that would give us chunky graphics for free without needing the AKIKO chip.
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@mr-a500
I just happen to dream Really big! thats not even half the picture. :-)
I also belive in a good product and not putting out crap...and people accepting it because they at least take what they can get. You know what Im saying,.....Im sure you would want an Amiga with the Specs I mentioned at that time wouldnt you?
Im just saying what I would have done if I owned the company :-)
@Hellcoder
Amiga Already supports Touchscreen.........Ever heard of SCALA? ever heard of the SCALA ECHO EE100? welll I have one and SCALA supports touch screen totally :-)
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Ah well i was thinking more of some of the all-in-one graphics solutions that existed for the Voodoo accelerator rather than relying on pass-through cables etc :-D
Still the point stands that with just a small cost increase to the initia,machine, and post-purchase gfx accelerator we could have had machines that were quite capable at the time. cest la vie.
Maybe we can cram some of these goodies into the MiniMig when we get the chance :insane:
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Ignoring the whole "but why?" factor, and not going for things that are available as addons anyway:
* Faster BUS & chipset.
Fast enough to reduce wait states as much as possible for everything accessing RAM.
It would also make supporting a higher scanrates for graphics output less hungry. Couple that with more addressable graphics ram (and of course buslines, registers etc to suit), nice high res and colourdepth at high refreshrates.
Other things would be nice, but they are usually already there.
I'm interested in the FPGA based Amigas in development like many others are.
It would be really nice to have each chip core available separately. If it were I'd be trying my hardest to make an FPGA board (or a much simpler CPLD board if the logic fits) to shove in. And if it worked then worry about trying to change it.
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Taller base feet, then it would make a great step stool. :lol:
Come on dudes... get a life. The machine is no longer viable by todays standards. Nothing but a tinker toy now, but if it does what you want at the moment, then there's not much reason to want it to do more.
No flames please. just my nickles worth...
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by T3000:
Taller base feet, then it would make a great step stool.
Come on dudes... get a life. The machine is no longer viable by todays standards. Nothing but a tinker toy now, but if it does what you want at the moment, then there's not much reason to want it to do more.
No flames please. just my nickles worth...
Asthmatics might want to leave the room about now...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/Ellen_ripley.jpg/180px-Ellen_ripley.jpg)
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Hyperspeed wrote:
by T3000:
Taller base feet, then it would make a great step stool.
Come on dudes... get a life. The machine is no longer viable by todays standards. Nothing but a tinker toy now, but if it does what you want at the moment, then there's not much reason to want it to do more.
No flames please. just my nickles worth...
Asthmatics might want to leave the room about now...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/Ellen_ripley.jpg/180px-Ellen_ripley.jpg)
Ripley's Believe it or Not!
It is nice to think of an Amiga with modern specs. But even Apple is caving in to Intel x86 based computers... And their OS is now... Well you know the story.
So a new Amiga based on the old technologies would have to be something very special indeed.
But a nice, affordable Amiga with the most common accessories and some desirables built into a neat little package would have me sold in an instant.
Give me a handheld Amiga with at least ECS. An SD card for a HDD, maybe WiFi and/or Bluetooth.
Seems like I'm asking for a palm with a modified Dragonball. Palm and Amiga hybrid. Awwwwwww Yeeeeeeeah. Thats for me.
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I truly believe that the a1200 should have had a HD and a cdrom as default. PCs were starting to be sold with cdroms at the time when a1200 was released. Also the soundcard should really have been upgraded. 8bit sound was excellent in the 80s, but it was quite outdated when the a1200 was released. I really cannot understand why commodore never upgraded such important part of the hardware. They basicly milked the amiga for all it was worth. We really did not see much innovation in the amiga hardware after the a500.
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@Tomas
The reason was compatibilty with hardware-banging software. The AHI drivers weren't available until later (although Commodore should have come up with better drivers).
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If we're talking about what we'd like to see added/altered in the amiga chipset should it be released now, then i'd think that a handheld device would be a pretty good target.
Or to put it another way. The GP2x only runs at 200Mhz, and the PSP is clock limited in software to 222MHz. So a 220Mhz Coldfire CPU and an upgraded AGA chipset + 3d hardware and you'dmhavea great little portable gaming system.
It doesnt have to be powerful 3d hardware either. The PSPs gpu is utterly woeful, it doesn't even support multi-texturing, urgh.
No just add better chunky support as Dennis was saying he'd like to do to the MiniMig, a low-power portable gpu and a ColdFire CPU and there'd be a really desirable portable machine with all my favourite games on it... ah *off-in-fairytale-land*
Andy
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Hmm, my re- release of the A1200 wouldn't be a power horse but a nice home computer.
OS:AROS CF Edition for Coldfire mode/AmigaOS for plain old 68k mode
Proc: Coldfire V4e/V5? - early startup lets you select running Coldfire mode or loads up 680x0 emulator.
Chipset: FPGA - emulating AGA with added Akiko, early startup lets you de- select several enhancements: More Colours, higher resolutions, better sound, or even going back to original AGA speed.
Misc: DVD-Rom, HD, integrated Ethernet, USB, DVI, RGB out, Toslink out.
That would be a nice one. My PC is much faster, but who cares?
Bye
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SamuraiCrow wrote:
@Tomas
The reason was compatibilty with hardware-banging software. The AHI drivers weren't available until later (although Commodore should have come up with better drivers).
They had years to come up with a solution. There is always a workaround...
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hi, those ten items make my mouth water--if only--cheers. :crazy:
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68K CPU @ 4GHz (dreaming)
133 or DDR ram slots for up to 4 gigs of ram.
Memory controller to ad as much chipram as you want from the system ram. Or you can use the GFX cards ram as chipram.
PCI and Zorro II/III/IV slots...
PCIe slots and even a AGP for kicks...
Some circuits to "retarget" any hardware banging software, forcing it to use the installed GFX card.
USB, on board network, support for much larger kickstarts than 512 kb (perhaps a 2gig flash unit), SATA, fire wire, + anything else i can't think of....
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Nice old thread. I think I've come full circle on this, expansion of the old Amiga to modern standards just doesn't cut it anymore. One of the reasons I've wanted AROS ported to ARM is for GP2X (http://www.gp2x.com/). Running "Populous" on a GP2X would be sweet.
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
Running "Populous" on a GP2X would be sweet.
You already can. UAE runs really well on the GP2X.
--
moto
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@leirbag28
would any of that run a reasonable sequencer. i need more power...
"Nice old thread. I think I've come full circle on this, expansion of the old Amiga to modern standards just doesn't cut it anymore. One of the reasons I've wanted AROS ported to ARM is for GP2X. Running "Populous" on a GP2X would be sweet."
the genesis emulator i use on psp (haven't tried it on gp2x.) is better than uae...
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CPU sockets on the low end models would have been nice. With a RAM socket. I would pay extra for them features.
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Firewire, USB, dvd burner, pci and pci-e (or possibly agp) so we could stick a modern grapnics card in it.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-064.gif)