Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: DoDo on May 17, 2003, 03:31:47 PM
-
Alans reply (http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/85812.shtml )
Comments please.
-
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).
-
Alan does have a point, though. Even by his own accounting of events, Bill seems to use lawyers in much the same way that chess players use pawns. Sometimes it reminds me of my assessment of the “Z Machine”, “It's a little like using an ICBM to crush a snowflake.”
-
Looks like a spoof message, if not then Redhouse your a disgrace and people must not buy anymore items from your company.
-
@Billsey,
Not sure where "lawyers" came into this discussion. Bill Buck, Alan Redhouse, Bill McEwen all have, and all use lawyers. This is business. The loser is usually the one who doesn't correctly use the resources at hand (in this case lawyers). The day where a handshake and a word is appropriate is over.
-
It's unfortunate that Alan (if it's him) doesn't answer in the
same format as the original post - i.e. a list of events, only
biased towards his way of seeing things. It clouds the
information he wants to convey. But I suppose his point is
rather clear - according to him, the delays and setbacks Mr.
Buck presented in his list was to a big portion due to his
own rough business practices.
As always, just as Bill Buck talking about MAI/Terrasoft et al,
this is Alan talking about another company not his own -
something to remember when weighting the -scarce- info.
Alan is usually showing better verbal prowess than this though.
.
SlimJim
-
by Billsey on 2003/5/17 11:03:26
Alan does have a point, though. Even by his own accounting of events, Bill seems to use lawyers in much the same way that chess players use pawns. Sometimes it reminds me of my assessment of the “Z Machine”, “It's a little like using an ICBM to crush a snowflake.”
Anyone in business who doesn't use lawyers as a business tool is a damn fool in this day in age. Sad, but true.
Dammy
-
He should have stayed quiet instead of lowering him to the level he did, imo.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
-
Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).
This sounds like Allan when he gets angry about something.
-
and just how desperate the FUD campaigns against it from you and your followers must have been.
Sigh even Alan is speaking in camps. Don't do it Alan, step away from the keyboard :-x
-
Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).
I'm sorry I don't get this. When Bill Buck and company is rude, abusive, dives into namecalling ("Wannbe lawyer" ring a bell?) or even posts confidential emails or publishes someone's personal details on ANN or calls those giving words of support to Hyperion "morons". He is being "blunt", "direct" or just "controversial" or "truthful" and that's OK.
But if Alan Redhouse retailiates then that is unacceptable? Sure fighting fire with fire isn't the best thing to do, but why is Bill excused in his behaviour, but Alan is not?
-
Because (apparently) Its different.
Its ALAN commenting.. And as Paul_Gadds post shows...
ALAN AINT ALLOWED TO WIN No matter what he does.
Sorry... (or not) I'm with Alan on this one !!
Something a wise old man taught me..
If you piss off a "HARD man" when you have your mates with you....
One dark night when your on your own.... You WILL bump into him !! (And woe betide you). :-o
You were the master of your own downfall !! :whack:
-
@uncharted
My only point in this matter (since you quoted me) is that BBRV posted a sequence of events. Alan Redhouse (if that were him) responded with a blatant personal attack.
I did not in any way suggest that it was acceptable for EITHER of the two gentlemen involved to publicly attack anyone on a personal level, nor did I defend BBRV's post, which was not under any pretense "offensive or rude".
In this particular instance, "Alan" (giving him the benefit of doubt as to the authenticity of that post) is clearly in the wrong here and clearly in need of a decaf coffee.
In the end though, both Alan and Bill are both human and prone to get pissed off just like the rest of us (yours truly included). If it were up to me, I'd slap both on the wrist and send them back to their laboratories sans forum access. Let their products and community support demonstrate their value, not their words.
Wayne
-
redrumloa wrote:
Sigh even Alan is speaking in camps. Don't do it Alan, step away from the keyboard :-x
Camps are there, you can't deny it. The lines were drawn in the sand a long time ago.
Sad, yes. Pathetic, yes - considering what we're talking about here for the most part is just a hobby. But that is the way things stand.
-
edited by admin : personal attack
-
edit by admin : trolling
-
@Wayne
I wasn't suggesting that this particular posting was in any way offensive or rude. (Although you must admit the sole motivation was probably not honesty with the "community"). It does seem as though on previous occasions that Bill has been granted more leeway.
For the most part I agree with you. The situation would be a hell of a lot better if all those involved kept thier traps shut in the first place instead of letting the arguements spill over into public forums.
The uniqueness of the Amiga "community" I suppose.
-
amigamad wrote:
edited by admin : personal attack
Well, that well thought out articulated arguement. I'm sure you've now convinced everyone here that you are right.
-
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck
Humm.. I just read the posting and I thought it showed remarkable restraint - just stating the obvious really.
I was expecting personal abuse - but then that's the way you like to spin it - eh?
-
@DoDo
Bollox, anyone McEwen, Moss, Buck, Redhouse, Hermans or whoever acts like that does not deserve customers or supporters.
Acting like amateurs is doing more harm that good.
-
... Just when ya think we couldn't sink any lower..
But really, what's so horrible in this post ? Some of these things were mentioned by Bill himself, although he presented his POV, and Alan blames Bill for the deals not going through.. (Didn't know about the IBM part tho) :-?
-
Bollox, anyone McEwen, Moss, Buck, Redhouse, Hermans or whoever acts like that does not deserve customers or supporters
You do realise that all this is no better than the Dave Gilmour/Roger Walters squabblers - people pulling at the corpse of something that was good 20 years ago.
-
You've pissed off Amiga Inc and, no doubt, Garry Hare - so no chance of an Os4 licence for you.
I'm I the only one to notice the above comment?
If this is really a posting from Alan Redhouse, then the fact Gary Hare is mentioned as though he is in charge of Amiga Inc is far more interesting than the fact that Alan got angry. Big deal, we all let steam off now and then.
If the MD of the company that 'makes' the OFFICIAL Amiga Hardware thinks Gary Hare is the top dog at Amiga Inc, then why does Fleecy Moss deny it?
The plot thickens.
If Garry Hare isn't the top dog, then this makes the post unlikely to be from Alan Redhouse, and just another troll.
Something to think about anyway.
-
You've pissed off Amiga Inc and, no doubt, Garry Hare - so no chance of an Os4 licence for you.
I'm I the only one to notice the above comment?
No, saw it, but didn't read it as you did.. Read it as he pissed of 2 parties (Amiga Inc and Garry as seperate entities) while you seem to combine them into 1. No reason why Garry wouldn't be pissed at Bill wheter he is with A-inc or not.. (If he isn't with them, he wouldn't have liked being dragged in the mud, if he is, well, he still wouldn't have liked it)
Anyway, taking from the beginning from the weird bussines card to all the stuff going on now, the Amiga community is in its lowest form as it has ever been
-
>This sounds like Allan when he gets angry about something
Exactly wanted to say this!
When Alan gets angry, he often completly lose his
mind and spread FUD and personal insults to
degrees never seen before.
Very bad acting..
-
logain wrote:
When Alan gets angry, he often completly lose his
mind and spread FUD and personal insults to
degrees never seen before.
Very bad acting..
You mean like this (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1438)?
-
@uncharted
Why are you so desperate to turn this around on Bill Buck? Both are guilty of personal overreactions. That was the only point of my initial comment.
In this case, "Alan" (again, quoted because it might not be him) acted badly.
Both are equally guilty of being human and acting as such when they feel provoked. It reflects badly on everyone when it happens. Just don't expect either man to act less than human when it comes to the other party.
-
What do you think it is about Bill Buck that brings out the worst in us? I really don't know what it is but I try not to let it influence my decision on whether to buy the Pegasos 2/MorphOS or AmigaOne/OS4. Since neither is ready it is all really moot anyhow. I want to wait untill I can see both running and play around with them but I am not holding my breath. In the mean time I have Palm OS5 and Debian to play with. :-)
-
Let's hope Mr. Buck has the smarts not to reply in kind, or we'll be back in the sandbox once again.
.
SlimJim
-
-my Opinon rant on this one-
lets see what BBRV has done for this community in the 2.5 years
made a motherboard
brought it to market
made an OS
brought it to market
given out jobs to many people in a bad economic climate (the adverse bieng if he had taken money and screwed people in a weak economy)
gone to many shows promoting his product
helped developers by not only funding them but by listening to them
brought hardware issues into the limelight not tried to cover up the weakness of the articia chips(in fact replaceing many Pegs that where flawed w/o the hardware fix)... and furthermore tried to protect future buyers by contacting IBM to get their cert taken away so other companies dont have the same folly
I know BBRV's been a bit abbrasive to some at times...but overall he's done more good for this community in 3 years then anyone else has done since commodore...and thats a fact... we've finally gotten a new age solution, a company to support it, and leadership that seems capable of keeping it above water long enough to develop into something worthwhile.
about alans post though...
1: who cares about more articias anyway... the marvel chipset has many more features and is newer... plus it dosent have flaws
2:if IBM is backing up a buggy chipset they shouldnt put their name on it... I find it hard to believe their angry about it...
3:who cares about OS4 Peggy has MOS and AI seems to be in a dubious situation as is... not something to act on high about e.g 'you offended the great amiga.inc ' as if their possible anger toward genesi matters..
4:Genesi makes their own OS and Boards ... maybe Hyperion is a bit angry...but the best defense to so-called 'fud' is to prove it wrong and make OS4 into a great OS and bring it out quickly...
I dont have anything against Alan ... he's got his opinons and thats all fine and good...I hope we see 'competition' in this market so I dont really object to the A1/Pegasos competing... but if he had responded with something like 'what you said and wrong and this is why' and proceeded to explain... I would give him alot more credit...as-is he did not outright say 'the chipset is fine, stop telling fibs' ... I think the articia issue hurts us all its not one sided...if indeed it is flawed..
-the above is my personal OPINON not to be mistaken for fact-
-
>("Wannbe lawyer" ring a bell?)
Was a reaction to Ben trying to call him
a stupid soldier-boy.
> publishes someone's personal details on ANN or
Half a telephone-number and the fact that
Catohagen really is Cato Hagen ?
>calls those giving words of
support to Hyperion "morons".
Well look at the link you gave in your other
post. What do you find ? BB tageting a few
(non-aggresive) words at some people who are
one the "red side", and than makes a remark
about "morons" posting in that thread and
another one. Well duh, there were morons
posting in both threads, but does that
mean he has called all who posted their
morons ?
Seems more like a case of people wanting
to see BB insulting user, and that is what
they see ....
About Alan vs. BB :
What BB wrote, makes sense, is plausible and
he has the right personell to know what is
amd what not.
The comments we heard from Alan and Ben,
make only sense if viewed one by one, but
they don't fit into one picture. Just
reread all the delay-excuses, and outright
BS when they tried to tell what was wrong
with the
Pegasos ("it's the BIOS, oh no it's the SB")
Bill's story does fit in with Terrasoft
leaving the Terons, with Tratech scrapping
the Barbie, with MAI's inability to ship
in quantitie, with MAI still having no sign
of the next generations of ships (Sa/P)
which should allready be in production.
-
I'm with Alan! I have no respect at all for Mr. Buck and I find it troubling that he has any public support at all.
- Mike
-
ohhh come on... you turned a solution provider that actually 'provides' for this community in some sort of folk monster... BBRV is just trying to develop a market...and thankfully its with an amiga compatible...
-
I thought freedom of speech and opinions are alllowed here losers wont allow anything towards pegasos only fud making towards eyetech. :-?
-
Glaucus wrote:
I'm with Alan! I have no respect at all for Mr. Buck and I find it troubling that he has any public support at all.
- Mike
¨
Well. to me is quite simple.. Alan as activelly participating that 'in Shedule and Rocking' hoax on summer 2001. Since then he has shown nothing to redeem himself.
-
@Glaucus
I'm with Alan! I have no respect at all for Mr. Buck and I find it troubling that he has any public support at all.
I agree
I bet they remove these post freedom of speech is not allowed here when it comes to bbrv :-o
-
Am I the only person who thinks the community is marginalised enough without the only companies developing amiga-like/compatible HW/OS at each others throats?
There's no proof that Alan actually wrote this. If he did then, OK he's guilty of getting opinionated. Like most of us ;-)
-
>Half a telephone-number and the fact that
>Catohagen really is Cato Hagen ?
Hey, leave me out of this :-)
the way I see it, its not the posting of my name
even if i post under my name @ ann, but the
work of first finding out what the yellowpages
are named in Norway, then find/guess the url, search my name, then he have 15 Cato Hagen's
spread all over Norway, then find my ISP's name, find out where they are located and try match
the Cato Hagen who live nearest the address of
the ISP....thats not something you do with a few
mouseclicks in a few minutes.
All that work for what ? scare me ? ok, i provoked him abit :-)
[edit]
and no, he didnt post any of my personal info to ann, he posted the regional and 'zip' numbers of my number just to show me that he know where i live or something like that.
-
@amigamad
Freedom of speech and opinions ARE welcomed here. Your brazen personal attacks on people with, or without provokation are not.
Please see our Posting Guidelines (http://amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=6) for further details.
-
I don't have the money for either one, so this is as unbiased as it gets…I guess. ;-)
I was wondering who it is that is at fault, then I realized that the issue is somewhat different than is being presented by anyone here. Now I find myself wondering how difficult it must be to run a business—while protecting corporate secrets—in a community that absolutely demands that you air your laundry.
How did we get this way? People try to help us and instead of letting them help we storm the Bastille. Maybe we need to stop blaming BBRV, Bill, Alan, Ben, Fleecy, Ray, Gary, or whomever else, and take a good, long look in the mirror.
-
Hey Billsey,
Agreed. Wow, I need a lie down now :-D
-edit-
Especially with you on the 'cant afford one just yet anyway' bit :lol:
-
By God's Grace I'll have a testimony out of this. When I do I'll speak in more detail about what I'm going through at the moment. Till then, please pray. :-)
-
Let's hope Mr. Buck has the smarts not to reply in kind, or we'll be back in the sandbox once again.
Probably not. He usually starts this kind of crap.
-
@Paul_Gadd
Looks like a spoof message, if not then Redhouse your a disgrace and people must not buy anymore items from your company.
Bullocks! Then the same thing counts for Bill Buck who has done this crap many more times.
-
More technology!!!
Less intrigue!!!
Jesus...
-
@PulsatingQuasar I'd like to you find one incidence where BBRV personally attacked someone outright like that... he's never done that from what I've seen..
-
With you on that one, McNorris.
-
@Wayne
my personal attacks ?
What about your personal attacks on alan redhouse and eyetech or are personal atacks a one way thing with bbrv left out.? :-?
-
amigamad wrote:
@Glaucus
I'm with Alan! I have no respect at all for Mr. Buck and I find it troubling that he has any public support at all.
I agree
I bet they remove these post freedom of speech is not allowed here when it comes to bbrv :-o
No we are allowing you to make a fool of yourself for the time being. you are not helping your cause, but then again you are probably a parody of a troll.
-
Wayne wrote:
@uncharted
Why are you so desperate to turn this around on Bill Buck? Both are guilty of personal overreactions. That was the only point of my initial comment.
In this case, "Alan" (again, quoted because it might not be him) acted badly.
Both are equally guilty of being human and acting as such when they feel provoked. It reflects badly on everyone when it happens. Just don't expect either man to act less than human when it comes to the other party.
You misunderstand, this isn't trying to turn this back on Bill, as I said before, there was nothing I would consider abusive or rude at any stretch of the imagination. Whilst I am suspicious of the motives behind the postings or if the events depicted are as it happened, there is no way I can make anything bad out of Bill's statement.
What gets me is how people are so quick to condemn "Alan" yet jump to the defence of Bill during similar or worse incidents. If you like I'm trying to balance it out, by pointing out (as you have said yourself) that this happens sometimes to everyone.
Personally I don't see much wrong with this statement, (in fact I'd say the things are the way they are now becuase X pissed off Y at some point in the past and both have too much pride to put differences aside) but then again I don't have much respect for either individual, niether is the perfect angel the blind followers on either side make them out to be.
-
uncharted to me its like this...you need to 'earn' my respect and admiration... Alan hasnt done that.... has he created a motherboard? has he created an OS? has he come down to the grass roots level to talk to people like me and others about the platform?..... he'll win my respect when he does some of those things....
I hope BBRV dosent sink down to the level of responding to his post there... if indeed that is/was his post...
-
.you need to 'earn' my respect
Same goes for bbrv they have made more attacks on more people but that goes un noticed.
-
meerschaum wrote:
uncharted to me its like this...you need to 'earn' my respect and admiration... Alan hasnt done that.... has he created a motherboard? has he created an OS? has he come down to the grass roots level to talk to people like me and others about the platform?..... he'll win my respect when he does some of those things....
I hope BBRV dosent sink down to the level of responding to his post there... if indeed that is/was his post...
I agree If you want respect it needs to be earnt. However niether of the two people in question have done the things you mention. Both have bought into someone elses motherboard (Alan's case Mai's teron, Bill's case BPlan's pegasos) and OS (Alan - Hyperion through licensing via Amiga Inc. Bill - through the efforts of the MorphOS team) I have witnessed both take part in forums and mail-lists and both talk to "ordinary" people face to face at WOASE, but I wouldn't say that would be something to respect, but rather expect.
There are only a handful of people in this community that I actually hold true respect for:-
The Freidens
Felix Schwartz
The AROS Team
Olaf Barthel
Bernie Mayer
Davy Wentzler
Neil Bothwick
Bill Bosari
SimoAmi
Wayne Hunt
Maybe I shouldn't of singled people and groups out, but hey, these are all great guy's who's effort and work is greatly appreciated by me and who I think have good community related motives behind their effort and support. Whether or not I always agree with them is a differnt matter :-)
I too hope that Bill doesn't lower himself into a reply, it won't do anyone any good. But if it does turn out to be Alan, please recognise that Bill has also had his "moments" in the past. As Wayne said we are only human.
-
Hello Wayne,
Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).
I think BBRV told us a story, and even a funny story :)
I particularly the "IBM forces Mai to ship the chips" statement... Who can really believe that BB has influence on IBM?
Tcho,
Glames / Boing Attitude :)
-
Just a few words to add that I have an A1 XE G4 that perfectly works with DMA enabled, FSB 133 Mhz.
Just a fact for Mister "no Articia without april fix"
Thank you.
Tcho,
Glames / Boing Attitude :)
-
But if Alan Redhouse retailiates then that is unacceptable? Sure fighting fire with fire isn't the best thing to do, but why is Bill excused in his behaviour, but Alan is not?
Same do i wonder....
Its not even sure it was Alan..
-
Good grief!
Are you lot still at it?
:-)
-
@Tomas
Same do i wonder....
That's because these MorphOS/Pegasos anti Amiga Inc. people think they are so bloody enlightened it's getting pathetic.
They constantly call the AmigaOne / AmigaOS 4 waiters blind followers and more stuff like that but are quilty of the same exact thing. They are as blind to the bad business tactics of Genesi and Bill Buck as we are with Amiga Inc. :-x
But noooooooooo (sarcasm) they are so enlightened. They follow the Pegasos / MorphOS route.
With the business tactics of Bill Buck, I will also give them 600 Pegasos 2 before Marvell say 'I won't deliver to you anymore'.
-
@uncharted
I think you really left out a bunch of other people there; :-)
Steffen Heauser( the other driving force behind Hyperion);
Martin Elsner;
Harry Sintonen;
every single person on the OS4 team like Stephan Rupprecht;
-
@Karlos
Truth is, this is the best thing that has happened to the Amiga since
Commodore died. This bloodletting, this at-your-throat marketing.
Wanna know why?
Because it's better than what we'd get from the outside. And whatever
company *does* make it will be stronger for having survived this
market "hazing" in the community.
Do you think Hyperion would be so gung-ho on AmigaoS 4.0 if MorphOS
wasn't already shipping? Hell no, it would be a side-project for some
game ports they'd be doing for the Mac or Linux. Do you think Eyetech
would have licensed a motherboard design from Mai rather than hire
some PCB layout guys to make their own? Hell no, Eyetech doesn't need
those royalties that have got to be sucking on their pots a bit.
It's the very existance of the Pegasos and MorphOS that drives Eyetech
and Hyperion forward. Without this competition, they'd feel secure in
their positions, and not put as much effort into delivering promptly.
By having an alternative, these two choices of Peg/MOS and A1/AOS4,
the Amiga market is doing something for the first time since
Commodore:
IT IS GROWING
There are people showing up for the first time in years, curious what
the hub bub is all about? There are mac-heads and linux-freaks
looking in our direction. In short, we've become alive again, due to
this cometition, this driving need to out-do the other one. Hate Bill
Buck as much as you want, without him the community would still be
shrinking, there would be more changed-directions and broken promices
and altered goals, and in short more of the same since Commodore went
bust.
Demonize him as much as you'd like, the man has given us all something
to look forward to, a living, thriving community.
Why do I work for Bill? Is it the paycheck? No, I'd make more
working for my father. Is it the prestige? I'm a web-page draftsman,
what do you think? No, it's because he is a leader, he has a vision
and a goal. He's given me hope for a better tomorrow for our
cherished community.
-
@Downix,
I don't recall demonizing anybody on either side, thanks...
I agree that any interest is better than none, it's just a pity that the OS side of things wasn't more cooperative.
-
niether of the two people in question have done the things you mention
BPlan is part of Genesi... MorphOS team is part of Genesi... Genesi therefore holds credit for all those things... BBRV bieng the head of Genesi does deserve credit for bringing it all together...
. Both have bought into someone elses motherboard
BPlan is part of Genesi... and BPlan makes the Pegasos... pegasos is not someone elses product re-badged
I give BBRV and Genesi credit... BBRV took all the elements and brought them together into one complete company... to create a complete solution... to me thats a far cry from 'you pay me and I'll let you make an OS" ....
-
Do you think Hyperion would be so gung-ho on AmigaoS 4.0 if MorphOS
wasn't already shipping? Hell no, it would be a side-project for some
game ports they'd be doing for the Mac or Linux
Downix, you are speculating. You are in no position to judge our motivation and motives, and I would like to ask you to stop this.
-
@downix
you work for him so you would never go against someone you work for even if you didnt agree with him. :-(
-
Probably not. He usually starts this kind of crap.
Even if he doesn't start it, it seems he's always somehow involved. I think it's fair to say that Mr. Buck has been involved in more then his fair share of contraversy in this small community. Last time it was Mr. Buck and Amiga Inc (the old CEO scandal), now it's Buck and Alan (EyeTech). From my perspective it seems Mr. Buck likes to stir the pot and he does it very well.
- Mike
-
Interesting, I've never seen Alan Redhouse use that address. Something about the wording a phaseing just seems off. This is one of the reasons I had sites without verified user accounts. You can't really tell who is really who.
-
yeah, shouldn't they be used more like knights.
-
Sad. :(
-
Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).
I dont think anyone can try and pick whos right and whos wrong, unless someone has some inside knowledge (although someone who has inside knowledge is most likly to be very bios).
As i see it there are two possibilities.
1) Alans being a retard :) and just trying to cover himself and trying to deflect BBRV's comments away from him.
OR
2) BBRV's events may have been right, but maybe, he really did piss off everyone else (and thats why MAI and TerrSoft left him) and Alan is defending himself, which he has every right to do so.
If the second senario is correct, then i dont think Alan was overboard, or harsh. Because if Bill did infact use Alans name missleadingly, i would have done the same thing in his shoes.
But, as i really have no idea whos right and whos wrong :) I'll just sit back and watch the show :)
-
@rodney
But the problem with your second scenario is that Bill Buck did not so much as mention Alan Redhouse. Alan, if it was him, even admitted in his post that he went on the warpath simply because his name was in the subject header -- which I might add -- was there long before Bill's original sequence of events post.
The original post in that thread to mention Mr. Redhouse in the topic (which was the ONLY reason he went nuclear, by his own admission) was started by Seehund, not Bill Buck.
http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/85735.shtml
It is only coincidence, and probably not even intentional on Bill's part that he replied to that particular post with that particular topic.
Before you Redcoats start banging the war drums, I'm not even remotely suggesting that Bill Buck is a saint. He can be, and has been his own worst enemy in the past where his forum presence is concerned. This post by Alan simply proves to me that both gentlemen would be better suited to working on their product than posting in public forums (although I still can't see anything wrong with BBRV's series of events post which would warrant such a reaction by Alan).
-
This post by Alan simply proves to me that both gentlemen would be better suited to working on their product than posting in public forums
Couldnt Agree more
although I still can't see anything wrong with BBRV's series of events post which would warrant such a reaction by Alan
Yes it was harsh, maybe alan was just sticking up for his pals, TerraSoftware and MAI. Maybe Alan thinks Bills posts abouts those companies has an indirect negative effect on his business, since MAI and TerraSoft are now the bad guys, according to Bill.
Anyway, i think this all boils down to dont take your business home, or at least, in this situation, dont bitch about it to your friends/followers or cultmembers...
That goes for both sides of the story. Alan maybe just should have left it.
-
I say lets have a poll!
Who is the biggest #### ####???
1. Bill Buck
2. Alan Redhouse
3. Harald Frank
4. Bill McEwen
5. Fleccy Moss
6. Wayne Hunt
7. Mike Bouma
8. ?
9. ?
Who would be the big winner?? ;-)
Loki :-D
-
@uncharted
Sorry, i have to say, that i didnt meant this as excuses for anyones
personal insult.
I just think Alan sometimes totally looses his grip like no other
official in this tiny community.
Look, both companies are sitting (cause of Mai) in the same boat. So
it comes not very unexpected, that Bill Buck answers to question about
what exactly happened and what had been done to solve the problems.
Bill Buck made a short summary about the events, very detailed and
interesting and when Alan replied i think everyone thought that he
would give such a summary from his kind of view too. Instead he
started badmouthing Genesi for screwing up partnerships etc.
He also reacted in a very rude and partly completly off-topic way when
the "April" was annouced and i think (and guess many would agree)
that it does make him look bad at all.
I should mention, that i spoke to Alan during the A-Expo last year
and i think hes a very friendly and kind person in real-life. Just
cant understand why he sometimes overreacts so badly.:-?
-
Wanye uhh forgive me.
But didn't BB claim that april fixed everything.
and isn't it strange that BB waited till all of the Pegasos boards were sold before mentioning that they don't work. Shouldn't that have been mentioned before people brought them. He NOW claims that he warned people that they where BETA boards. That was NEVER posted on his site or on any of the sites that sold the PEGASOS boards.
Uhh why should we believe him now and after what he has said in the past has proven to be false?
What about his statement that april was upgradable so that any and all bugs in the future could be addressed?
So if Pegasos one work has stopped. I guess...? That means there also won't be any G4 upgrade boards offered by Thendic for the PEG ones hmm... wasn't that also waved about by the Morph crew?
Also Wayne look into BB's claim about why Terrasoft stopped selling the Boxer. The truth is enlightning and will tell you exactly what kind of person BB is.
Kurt
-
An observation:
It seems unlikely that anyone who is in a position to have cooperated with Jens Schoenfeld would misspell his name.
Lee Bosch
SalAmi Swami
-
Rogue wrote:
Downix, you are speculating. You are in no position to judge our motivation and motives, and I would like to ask you to stop this.
Speculation is usually based on a combination of appearances and facts. And, you have to admit, that prior performances (not necessarily by you or your company) make Downix's speculation seem to hold some water.
-
But didn't BB claim that april fixed everything.
and isn't it strange that BB waited till all of the Pegasos boards were sold before mentioning that they don't work. Shouldn't that have been mentioned before people brought them. He NOW claims that he warned people that they where BETA boards. That was NEVER posted on his site or on any of the sites that sold the PEGASOS boards.
I don't recall anyone saying that the April fixed everything. Perhaps it fixed every issue known at the time, but that doesn't mean that there aren't issues that aren't known.
Pegasos boards DO work. If they didn't work, I wouldn't be typing this right now. As far as people being told, the people in the programs that this involved were under NDA.. So no, the general public for the most part is not given such information. DUH.
So if Pegasos one work has stopped. I guess...? That means there also won't be any G4 upgrade boards offered by Thendic for the PEG ones hmm... wasn't that also waved about by the Morph crew?
Did you miss the part where Bill states July? The G4 board IS coming out. Then again, for the same exact price I can upgrade to the Pegasos 2 with a G4. Hmm. Wonder which one I'll choose.
Also Wayne look into BB's claim about why Terrasoft stopped selling the Boxer. The truth is enlightning and will tell you exactly what kind of person BB is.
Terrasoft has not officially stated why they stopped selling the boards. I've heard that it was because of quality issues. Regardless, funny how most boards that were supposed to use the Articia now aren't. That ought to say something.
-
Anyone else here capable of signing into #Amiga.org on IRc and changing their name to Alan_Redhouse. I sure as heck am. I sincerely doubt this things legitimacy. And sides, Wayne, why do you think that cause he says "no OS4 for you" that it thickens some stupid crock 'plot' about who owns Amiga Inc. I don't mean that as personal offense, I just think that someone pulled a stunt with that stuff. Wayne, I've read a lot of your posts, your smarter than falling into that.
-
@jeffmix
I agree with you. While A.R. does occationally go on a rant, he usually does it with a purpose and within context. However, I also agree with Wayne that whoever pulled this stunt is just full of sour-grapes... Then again, I can be full of sour-grapes on occation too.
-
Agreed. While I have been in and out of the Amiga sceen way too much, I do hear alot of complaining about BB and his attitude/respoces he gives others. I guess that things like that can wear thin on people. Even as good natured as people have percieved Alan to be.
I guess we all at one time or another have had all we can stand and have said or done things that in hinesight we have regreted. If this was an open posting for BB from Alan, then lets hope that now it is out of his system and doesnt go any further.
What does not kill us only serves to make us stronger. Let's move past this and move on to the important things like OS4.0
-
But didn't BB claim that april fixed everything.
and isn't it strange that BB waited till all of the Pegasos boards were sold before mentioning that they don't work. Shouldn't that have been mentioned before people brought them. He NOW claims that he warned people that they where BETA boards. That was NEVER posted on his site or on any of the sites that sold the PEGASOS boards.
--
ARGH! He sold BetaTester boards. Buyers WERE
notified about the problem. Then they made the
April1 and replaced *ALL* boards without it for FREE.
Later it was discovered that there are more bugs
and the April2 was made. All April1 boards were
replaced FOR FREE.
Yes, he *DID* warn users that they were beta boards,
that's why they were called *BETATESTER* boards!
The April2 boards are NOT beta boards though.
Most major ArticiaS bugs are fixed there and most
people that had an April-less or April1 board can
confirm that.
BTW, the CPU cards for the Pegasos 1 and Pegasos 2
boards are identical and compatible. So yes, there
will be a G4 card for the Pegasos 1, as there will be
one for the Pegasos 2. Of course, it will work MUCH
better on the Peg2....
And about the Terrasoft Boxer. You have no idea why
they stopped, BB was their partner and knows, shut up.
-
Wayne wrote:
Before you Redcoats start banging the war drums
Man, you Yanks can't go 5 minutes without bringing up the War of Independence can you? :lol: :lol:
-
>That was NEVER posted on his site or on any of the
>sites that sold the PEGASOS boards.
As always, you are wrong. KDH had the option to
chose a BT board or wait for the final release for
example. Other dealers linked to morphos-news.de
which had the announcement about Betatester2
boards.
>So if Pegasos one work has stopped. I guess...?
Of course the design and experience is used to
develop the further products, such as the STB that
will be shown in the Netherlands in June.
>That means there also won't be any G4 upgrade
>boards offered by Thendic for the PEG ones hmm
Wrong. The G4 CPU card will be available in July.
Because the CPU slot of the Pegasos1 and
Pegasos2 are similar you can exchange CPU cards
which also means any CPU option available for
Pegasos2 is available for Pegasos1 owners.
And: 200EUR for the G4 CPU card isn't a bad price. It
just means that some lucky users get a Pegasos1
with G3 and G4 for 499EUR.
-
meerschaum wrote:
niether of the two people in question have done the things you mention
BPlan is part of Genesi... MorphOS team is part of Genesi... Genesi therefore holds credit for all those things... BBRV bieng the head of Genesi does deserve credit for bringing it all together...
. Both have bought into someone elses motherboard
BPlan is part of Genesi... and BPlan makes the Pegasos... pegasos is not someone elses product re-badged
I give BBRV and Genesi credit... BBRV took all the elements and brought them together into one complete company... to create a complete solution... to me thats a far cry from 'you pay me and I'll let you make an OS" ....
I'm afraid that's flawed logic. In the orginal statement Bill himself stated that he wasn't involved with BPlan until November 2001. MorphOS was already available as a CSPPC beta, and Bplan had announced the Pegasos (Although then it was called the AmigaOne :-D ) waaay back in 2000 so I would think it would be safe to assume that the project was already well advanced. Sure Bill took a chance on the project and funded it, to which he deserves credit.
But to me throwing money at something does not warrent me to respect someone. In different ways they both bought into someone else's development, took a risk and invested. Yeah I can see there being 1001 of the usual suspects disagreeing with me, and trying to tell me that every thing Genesi is better and that Bill is the saviour of the Amiga platform. But look closely and think about it carefully and you'll see I'm right.
I think you are confusing things here because Genesi are one entity whereas the opposition are 3 seperate companies. Alan never did "you pay me and I'll let you make an OS", in fact aside from the fact that Hyperion provided the BIOS for MAI, Eyetech have absolutely jack all to do with OS 4. Comparing like for like Bill's counterpart in all this would erm, Bill - the other Bill, the "Head of the Amiga infrastructure". In this case Bill B would beat Bill M hands down if your were to compare them.
-
by Rogue on 2003/5/17 19:37:04
Downix, you are speculating. You are in no position to judge our motivation and motives, and I would like to ask you to stop this.
If I were you all, I'd be far more worried on what's going on with Amiga Inc then what Downix is saying. ;) I could think of several things that could make your entire OS4 project a complete waste of time and effort if Net Ventures pulls the plug...
Dammy
-
@zacman
Agreed. Also, I should note for our US visitors that I will be accompanied by a (maybe more than one?) G4 card on my way to AmiWest. (according to my last bit of info). Whith as quick as the G3 has been under MOS, I can only imagine that the G4 will be mind-blowing.
-
Targhan wrote:
@zacman
Agreed. Also, I should note for our US visitors that I will be accompanied by a (maybe more than one?) G4 card on my way to AmiWest. (according to my last bit of info). Whith as quick as the G3 has been under MOS, I can only imagine that the G4 will be mind-blowing.
Fantastic! End of next week I'll have the money for my Pegasos 1, I think a G4 upgrade will be next on my list at the cheap price of $200!
-
I find that the author of this particular thread is largely irrevalent when compared to what was said.
Through my own research I have found this theme to be recurring, all the way back to the Escom Viscorp. deal, and so I find myself agreeing with it.
I simply cant believe that someone with the experience Mr Buck claims to have, backed by the training in leadership skills westpoint gave him could become such a innocent and hapless victim of such shenanigans time and time again.
This leads me to conclude that Mr Buck is either:
A) Hopelessly incompetant
or
B) Has a personality failing that causes this that he is unable to recognize and\or rectify.
I lean towards option B simply because one does not get such a group as the pheonix consortium on side when you are incompetant.It is my thought that the same personalty traits the are charismatic and persausive to many people, act in exactly the opposite way with others in the case of Mr Buck.
My final conclusion assuming optiob B is correct is that Mr Buck has "cried wolf" just one too many times, though his post I must admit has shown a great deal more dignity than his other recnt posts and is good to see.
All this aside I wish all the parties involved in the Amiga community to just pull thier heads in, swallow thier pride and pull together in the one direction and start competing with the real opposition being Mac PC and Linux to expand the Amiga market rather than this cannibalization thats going on.
This includes everyone from Mr Buck tand Mr Mcewen, to Mr Meyers and Mr Frank.
-
Sigh....and people wonder why so many of us have the 'wait and see'mentality. I certainly would love to have a POS or an A1, but realistically, I don't have the money to spend on either, so I wait and see what they BOTH have to offer. I'm not sided towards either one, but who cares??? They both talk sh!t and they both fud. Neither have proven anything to me, except they both know how to start crap. Sadly, I'm to the point that I don't care for either anymore. Bill just likes to Troll and I'm frustrated waiting for new Screenshots. I'll just stick with my 2000 Box, my RH Box and my Amithlon Box. :-(
-
by IonDeluxe on 2003/5/18 15:47:14
All this aside I wish all the parties involved in the Amiga community to just pull thier heads in, swallow thier pride and pull together in the one direction and start competing with the real opposition being Mac PC and Linux to expand the Amiga market rather than this cannibalization thats going on.
This includes everyone from Mr Buck tand Mr Mcewen, to Mr Meyers and Mr Frank.
Not going to happen. Garry Hare and Bill Buck getting along, OTOH, is a possibilitiy. Mr. Franks returning to reality is unlikely as a certain OSNews wank/modator gaining respect from any non-FFONTC community member(s). Mr Meyers, AFAIK, now has a real job now so I doubt he would be interested. Sure, it would be wonderful if we all could get along, but in short, that's not real life.
In real life, we acknowledge what we do have in the here and now while we move forward into the future with hope.
Dammy
-
I agree to some of the sentiments presented by you guys, and disagree with others.
I suppose the bottom line is they are all somewhat concerned with their own business. After all, that is what all of this is about no? From Mr. Frank and Mr. Meyers to Mai and Genesi, at some point business decisions have to be made. I point the finger at certain bumblings, and I can overlook others.
I still don't think that the Alan Redhouse reply is the genuine article. The said post just doesn't fit the context of anything more than a Rant.
As far as professionalism in this community, I point squarely at Vaporware. These guys have gotten screwed, not once, not twice, but at least THREE times by various deals. Still, they trudge along trying to improve the community. When the main developer left, he turns the project over to another developer--protecting the end user. Unlike Holger Krusen and Bernie Meyer, Oliver Wagner did everything that he could to ensure that when he went to work elsewhere that the Amiga community was taken care of. Ollie did everything he could to protect the intrest of his registered users. THIS is professionalism. THIS is how it should be done.
Well, kudos belong to others as well, but Vaporware is the development group to which all others should be judged. There is professionalism left in our little community. Think about it the next time you start AmIRC, Voyager, MicroDot, or any of the other VaporWare programs.
-
@Targhan
I find myself in complete agreement.Professionalism here is the keyword, and something that has been lacking from certain companies
It is my view that it is pride that is standing in the way of the things I have described above....no-one wants to back down, admit they are wrong or make comprimises because of it.
Some of these companies have attempted oto a lesser or greater extent to swallow thier pride, but as yet have fallen short of the mark.
This pride swallowing must also be done by certain member of the community, as this is a cycles that keep going.Company A makes a statement, community A goes woohoo, community B syas what a load of BS, company B joins in to support community B company A says something to refute company B and around and around it goes.
We as a community must put a stop to this by not allowing this kind of thing to continue, and put pressure on ALL companies to resolve thier differances.
I have yet to see one person disagree that everyone working together would not be the best thing for our platform.
So we as a community must step back, remove ourselves from any particular loyalties and refuse to tolerate this back and forth any longer!
I am sick to death by these companies TELLING US that Amiga Inc. is screwed, Genesi are a bunch of idiots, OS4 is never coming out, MAI is a backstabbing bunch of bastards and so on.
All these companies exist to provide US what we WANT, and it seems WE all WANT the same thing, a united Amiga front.
Its long past time WE TOLD THEM that this is no longer going to be tolerated and get them to do what WE as the community want.
We should show these companies by example by putting aside our differances and for the community to work towards this end.We can do this through posting, by e-mails, with our wallets, and refusing to participate in the propaganda and flame wars cause by all these cheap shots these companies and individuals make.
-
Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).
I disagree here. People don't seem to realize that doing business also involves personal contacts with other people. Now somebody asks 'why are all those people turning their back on me ?' and somebody else answers that it is because how he treats his partners.
Now this may be personal but is right on topic and has a good place to be told. I agree that maybe a better wording could have been chosen.
On a sidenote, for me the business tactics of a company are as important as the products they sell. That's why I stay away from companies/people like Elbox, H&P, Harald Frank and Bill Buck. This may be personal but I think I have all the right to do this and also tell other people why I do this.
-
On a sidenote, for me the business tactics of a company are as important as the products they sell.
So you definately won't use any Microsoft products will you Fats, seeing as they are convicted felons?
-
mdma wrote:
So you definately won't use any Microsoft products will you Fats, seeing as they are convicted felons?
If you ask, I try to stay away from MS also. I type this in Opera under linux. I'm running linux on my Dell x86, Sparc Station 20 and amigaone.
At work I'm known as a UNIX/linux expert and am in the contact group with the computer support people where I also try to promote linux.
(BTW, the x86 is used for AROS dev work, yes hello mdma).
-
"That's why I stay away from companies/people like Elbox, H&P, Harald Frank and Bill Buck."
Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
-
@Fats & Elektro
Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga. You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.
-
:roflmao:
-
mdma wrote:
On a sidenote, for me the business tactics of a company are as important as the products they sell.
So you definately won't use any Microsoft products will you Fats, seeing as they are convicted felons?
Note that IBM** was guilty of the similar actions as with MS.
**Lasted for 40 years, which ended in ~1996.
-
Targhan wrote:
@Fats & Elektro
Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga. You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.
The problem is that there are two camps at the moment and each of the camps thinks that the other is destroying the amiga spirit as you call it. I try not to be involved in these discussions.
As a long time Amiga user I've grown to dislike certain people in this little world. This is based on real actions taken in the past and not based on information spread by competitors or other people that are member of the opposite camp.
I'm not bitter either and I'm actually actively working to keep the Amiga spirit alive (AROS (http://www.aros.org/)).
-
Targhan wrote:
Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga. You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.
It's tempting to mention glass houses.
Let's be honest here, there is very little else but bitterness left. Trying to lay the blame at one party's door is never going to wash. At the end of the day this whole self distruction stems from pride and arrogance stemming back from the days of C=
-
@fats
I'm happy you work on AROS (good job btw), but to lump these companies together as some sort of axis of evil is wrong.
Occationally, I villianize Amiga Inc, and that too is wrong. I have a few personal grudges against some of the decision makers at AmigaInc, but otherwise--they are a victim too.
H&P? A victim. Software Hut? A victim. Phase5? A victim. These guys have all had to pick and choose who they could and could not pay, and when. Lets face it, the entire Amiga market and community has been victimized by the market in general. It can get better, but we all have to get over our grudges.
It is wrong to villianize any one company, but we all should try not to. This includes myself.
(These comments are my own, and not representative of the company I work for, the websites I'm associated with, or any other group of people.)
-
Good answer.
The community could really benifit with a greater attitude like this.
-
Targhan wrote:
I'm happy you work on AROS (good job btw), but to lump these companies together as some sort of axis of evil is wrong.
You read too much in my words. I never wanted to paint one side as the axis of evil. I mentioned two companies and two persons and not the company that is behind the Pegasos, this was on purpose.
(As AROS dev we do cooperate with the MorpOS guys although on an open source basis).
Occationally, I villianize Amiga Inc, and that too is wrong. I have a few personal grudges against some of the decision makers at AmigaInc, but otherwise--they are a victim too.
I agree that it seems more and more the case that the people at Amiga Inc. are not capable to effectively lead a company. Too big Amiga mind, too small business mind.
H&P? A victim. Software Hut? A victim. Phase5? A victim. These guys have all had to pick and choose who they could and could not pay, and when. Lets face it, the entire Amiga market and community has been victimized by the market in general. It can get better, but we all have to get over our grudges.
Sorry but if a company has made a decision 'to be able to pay people' that in my eye is morally doubtful I will make up my mind.
It is wrong to villianize any one company, but we all should try not to. This includes myself.
I don't think I villianized a company. I just said that I don't like certain companies, personalities.
The problem it seems is that everything you say about Amiga related stuff is interpreted as being on one side or the other side. And that's also why I think that is impossible to get back to a joined Amiga community.