Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: motorollin on September 22, 2006, 04:58:44 PM
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This (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180030755766&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1#ebayphotohosting) is mine now :-D I intend to use it with a Prophet64. Can't wait to get it and for the Prophet64s to be back in stock!!!
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moto
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hello moto,
I thought you were in US (NTSC zone). Do you have a compatible screen to use this with ?
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Nope, I'm in England.
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moto
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then you're lucky :) I'm here crawling on the floor each time setup my c64 cause I have to use my pc's tuner :(
computing with the c64 is ultimate fun. btw, I think you'll be needing some data storage solution. you got to save the stuff you make with prophet64 to somewhere right ?
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have fun... go to Arnold's FTP site.. I downloaded every single piece of software on there.. retro fun!!
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Rock out man!
C64 is definately worth owning and buying. :-)
If you were in the US, i would write you some disks with me XE1541 cable and mail your way. The cable is a must to backup all information and its soooo useful.
Thanks to Style of Chrome, he built me one. :-)
Not to bring this off topic, but anyone ever try to link C64 modem games through tcpjser? Might be an interesting project to do sometime.
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Does the Prophet64 have any internal memory for saving projects? If not then I'll either buy a 1541, or use my A1200 as a 1541 emulator.
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moto
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I would go ahead and try to use your amiga if it can be an emulator for a 1541. I been meaning to do the same on the PC so it saves me from having to keep out my disks and possibly ruining them by my speakers.
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motorollin wrote:
Does the Prophet64 have any internal memory for saving projects? If not then I'll either buy a 1541, or use my A1200 as a 1541 emulator.
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moto
i think you can use 1541 and you can use the demo version (http://www.prophet64.com/files/Prophet64_FreeTrial.zip) before purchase the comercial one.
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Very nice Motorollin, that's the C-64G isn't it? With the later revision SID chip that a lot of people complained about for sounding ever-so-slightly different IIRC.
Anyone got a link to info on the Prophet64? I have no experience using 8-bit Commodores so most of this thread went over my head.
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Marco wrote:
Very nice Motorollin, that's the C-64G isn't it?
C-64 c :)
Also, hearing both chips from the C128 and a newer C128D, there is actually a big difference when the sound is made. Grab Sidplay and play some modules that do require either or to play correctly. Some songs had a major bad clicking going on while the other played it just fine.
Either way. Its fun to listen. :-)
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http://www.prophet64.com/
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Nice! I'm getting Prophet64 too... so glad I came across these threads. I haven't been this excited about old C= hardware in years. Hopefully it'll be available again soon.
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kd7ota wrote:
C-64 c :)
You're right, it looked like a G in the photo there, both had the grey case and keys...
arkpandora wrote:
http://www.prophet64.com/
Nice, thanks.
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Marco wrote:
With the later revision SID chip that a lot of people complained about for sounding ever-so-slightly different IIRC.
Hmmm dunno about that. I got it solely for music. Will the SID chip in this revision be ok :-?
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moto
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Given I couldn't even tell from the picture wether you'd bought a C or a G revision, I'm really not the person to give advice but I think the C did have different chips to the original breadbin models.
Then again I think I read (on a collector site) that some C-64Cs were made by using original version mobos and chips left over from the previous production run; Commodore's production techniques were, odd at the best of times.
kd7ota's post seems to explain the difference between the two SID chips BTW.
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SID is socketed anyway, right? So I could change it for a different one if I wanted to?
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moto
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Get yourself a MMC64 and maybe a Retro Replay and then head over to the real cool stuff. (http://rrforum.ath.cx/) ;-)
You could also get ethernet and a proper browser with CSS-support. ;-)
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Hmmmm, forgot about the MMC64. Can I access it like a 1541? IOW, can would I be able to save Prophet64 projects on to the MMC card? Also, will the expansion port passthrough from the MMC64 work with the Prophet64?
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
SID is socketed anyway, right? So I could change it for a different one if I wanted to?
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moto
No, the original SID (6581) uses a diferent voltage than the newer one (8580)
Also, is there some 1541 emulator for the amiga?
I used my A500 to transfer files to a 1541, but not as file server for the 64. If you do so, be carefull, the Amiga doesn't have any protection on the parallel port, any problem and you'll fry a CIA, as happened to me :(
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motorollin wrote:
Marco wrote:
With the later revision SID chip that a lot of people complained about for sounding ever-so-slightly different IIRC.
Hmmm dunno about that. I got it solely for music. Will the SID chip in this revision be ok :-?
It will be ok, there is nothing wrong with it. The 8580 sounds a bit cleaner than the 6581. On the other hand drums sound quite phat on the 6581 while being a little too "metallic" on the 8580. But that's just personal taste.
One important difference though are digis, e.g. digitized speech like in the beginning og "The last V8" or "Space Taxi". The 8580 is nearly uncapable of playing those digis at a decent volume. There is a resistor-fix available, very easy to do, I did it and it worked perfectly.
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More cool c64 stuff here:
http://www.ide64.org/
and
http://www.volny.cz/dundera/devices.html
Nothing seems to be ready for purchase though(?).
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Actually this fourth voice is the main problem of the 8580. It is strange to notice that the number of musics that used this voice increased in the second half of the C64's life, despite this problem that prevents any digitized sound to be audible among synthesized sounds. As if no musician had noticed the problem, or been told about it in case they were using an older C64.
What does this resistor-fix consist of ?
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motorollin wrote:
This (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180030755766&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1#ebayphotohosting) is mine now :-D I intend to use it with a Prophet64. Can't wait to get it and for the Prophet64s to be back in stock!!!
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moto
I'am soooo very jealous of you at the moment. My C64 only gives a black screen when it powers on :cry: .
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8580 SID-chip in c64c have a "bug" with digital samples, this are playing at very low volume but you can fix it in a very simple way with a 330k resistance between pins 11 and 26
motorollin:
Have you more info about use an a1200 or pc like 1514 and what kind of cable i needed?
Thanks in advance.
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@ motorollin
I have Pang (on cart) for the C64 would you be interested in buying it?
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countzero wrote:
hello moto,
I thought you were in US (NTSC zone). Do you have a compatible screen to use this with ?
Nearly all newer PAL tv's also support NTSC these days luckily :) Sad that this isnt the case for NTSC tvs..
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8580 SID-chip in c64c have a "bug" with digital samples, this are playing at very low volume but you can fix it in a very simple way with a 330k resistance between pins 11 and 26
That's what I did and it worked fine. You can vary a bit with the resistors between 300k and 500k and the strength of the effect will change. The best would be to have a potentiometer for that, so you can regulate it to your own liking.
It's good that you put "bug" in quotes, because it's rather the other way round. The 6581 has a bug when turning the volume up and down on one channel very quickly. The result is a clicking noise that some programmers used for generating digi sounds. Weird technique, but it worked.
The 6581 has a more "warm" sound while the 8580 sounds very clean and "sharp".
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Hope I get the 6581 :-( Though I can "warm up" the sound once I've sampled it in to my MacBook.
Have a look at Emul1541 on Aminet. It aparrently lets you use your Amiga as a C64 disk drive. I have never tried it, but it looks like you need to build a circut to connect the Amiga's parallel port to the C64's serial port. Think I'll just get the MMC64 instead. Does anyone know whether I will be able to use the Prophet64 connected to the MC64 passthrough, and whether I can save Prophet64 projects to the MMC card?
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moto
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If you want to make 303 type sounds, you will probably prefer the 8580 chip. You may like to put two of them in your c64 as well. It is possible to put an 8580 chip in a 6581 computer, but it takes a little more work.
You should also have a look at the midibox sid project at midibox.org (follow the micro C apps link), if you're interested in SID chip instruments. It takes more work again, but it is capable of much more than the prophet64. For 303ish sounds, you can have a look at the bassline mode. You can also find info and links regarding the SID chip revisions.
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Thanks Oliver. I'll try the 8580 and see how it performs. As I said I can post-process it once it's recorded if I want to make it sound less clean.
I have found this information on replacing the 8580 with a 6581:
1) The 6581 uses a 5v and a 12v supply, while the 8580 uses 5v and 9v.
2) Different filter capacitors are specified for each chip - 470 pF for the 6581, and 22000 pF for the 8580. This gives each chip a different range for the filters.
Aside from the voltage supply found on pin 28 (6581 = 12v, 8580 = 9v), the
two chips are pin-compatible.
To make a complete swap, you must provide the proper voltage on pin 28 and swap out the two filter capacitors on pins 1-4.
So if I just replace the capacitors then bend out pin 29, then find 12v from somewhere, could I use a 6581?
Anyway, as I said I'll see how I get on with the 8580. I do want to use the 303 bassline synth so maybe the 8580 will be better anyway.
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moto
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It aparrently lets you use your Amiga as a C64 disk drive. I have never tried it, but it looks like you need to build a circut to connect the Amiga's parallel port to the C64's serial port. Think I'll just get the MMC64 instead. Does anyone know whether I will be able to use the Prophet64 connected to the MC64 passthrough, and whether I can save Prophet64 projects to the MMC card?
Please note that the MMC64 does not allow you to load multifile games (e.g. from D64-files). However, you can start single Programs (.PRG-files), look inside D64-images and start PRGs from there, write back D64-images to your 1541, convert 1541-disks to D64, isten to WAV-files, watch ANIms and pictures, play SIDs and many many other things.
If you also have a Retro Replay, you can make full use of the "Dreamload" plugin, which allows you to also load multifile D64/D71 images. The IDE64-fixed version work fine with it.
I don't know about the Prophet64, but the Retro Replay works fine together with the MMC64.
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I think you will prefer the 8580. If I remember correctly, the prophet64 bunch actually specify that an 8580 should be used. I also think the bassline samples they provide, are made with 2 8580 chips, using a dual chip adapter board which they also designed. You may be able to get such a board from them, but they don't provide the extra chip.
It seems you have come a long way from scoffing at electronica, huh? :-D Good stuff. I look forward to seeing the music you produce. Oh, also, you may like to know that music production, and home studio establishment can be very addictive.
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Here is a good technical site about the SID, especially the differences between the successive revisions :
http://sid.kubarth.com/
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humppa wrote:
That's what I did and it worked fine. You can vary a bit with the resistors between 300k and 500k and the strength of the effect will change. The best would be to have a potentiometer for that, so you can regulate it to your own liking.
Nice idea to put a pontentiometer in resistor place and regulate the sound at your taste. Thanks. =)
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motorollin wrote:
Hope I get the 6581 :-( Though I can "warm up" the sound once I've sampled it in to my MacBook.
You can use 8580 "bug" fixed, have a clear sound and dont seem easy to intall a 6581 in C64C for no benefits.
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Bodie wrote:
I'am soooo very jealous of you at the moment. My C64 only gives a black screen when it powers on :cry: .
Open it up and look for the fuse. This problem usually happens when the fuse blows. I thought mine was dead till I realised this.
Then you too could be having 64 fun