Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: TheMagicM on September 11, 2006, 01:05:32 AM
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Please nothing Amiga related. Think outside the box and take the tinfoil hats off.
cue the harp and the clouds, birds chirping..
back in the day of computing..when it was fun (C=64/128/Amiga/Atari) there was always breakthrough technology or something that came out and stirred up alot of commotion.
Nowadays it seems as though its just ho-hum. Nothing really catches my eye and it seems as though the IT world is obsessed with speed/number crunching. Will we have to wait 10+ years for another groundbreaking achievement in computing? What is the next big thing that should be accomplished? What are we looking for? Drop the 'fan favorite' cpu talk (like sticking to PPC). x86 isnt bad. So what we're really after is a good operating system?
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The IT field had evolved so fast, that computers are at a
point where there is not much left they can't do. Maybe self
programming computers? A.I.? Despite what has been accomplished,
I believe the computer industry has become so commercial that
computers are nothing more than an appliance tailored toward
the common consumer. I missed the days when computers were
still marketed toward the ones who actually knew how to use
them, the ones who were not afraid to find out what made them
tick. Not exactly sure how to say it, hopefully you understand
what I mean.
C Snyder
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My feeling is that innovation is nothing more than stealing an idea from an open-source project and mainly I too feel that the computer industry is making more or less an appliance for the masses.
I just feel there is no real innovation going on any more... it is like the major players are comfortable with the way things are and so lets add bells and whistles to our already bloated OS. So I would like to see a new OS evolve.
What is a keen example of what I am talking about is a new feature of Windows (Vista) which looks keenly like an idea that Sun Microsystems had out on their open-source project called Looking Glass. The Windows implementation of "flip" and "flip 3D" looks exactly like Looking Glass. Plus they seemingly took the look and feel of OS X (mac) for their vista "look and feel". Even Apple is guilty on some level of this lack of innovation, and I have always thought of Apple as innovators, and then the PC world implements it later (examples include but are not limited to: USB, USB 2.0, Firewire (IEEE 1394), SATA, etc.) which were adopted after Apple released machines with these features. And now, the OS X look and feel is kind of a rip off of FreeBSD features and ports of X windows features like WindowMaker's Dock and others. Though they did change it up quite a bit!
But the innovation that drives "the development" of the modern Operating system includes keeping a very old UNIX environment running in the background. It would be cool to come up with a totally new OS that was independent of UNIX... however, I do love the UNIX underpinnings and FreeBSD in particular is rock solid and tried and true. The only difference left between any OS seems to be either Windows (VAX environment with NTFS filing system) or *NIX based. Then it can be sub-divided further into front end GUI differences... the GUI is all that separates one *NIX from another. We are (unfortunately) forced to choose either Windows (which I will never use where I don't have to) or a *NIX environment. Then it is a debate whether we like the propritory MacOS X (Aqua) interface or whether we are X-Windows purists.
I know I have said this before, but I think the world could use a new AmigaOS that competes directly with MacOS X and Windows. What I don't get is why Amiga, Inc or Hyperion don't simply write their own GUI on top of a *NIX base (just the way Apple did) and make it therefore able to run on any platform that the kernel would support? This just makes sense. And While I understand that even Apple had many more resources in programming to get this done, Aqua was still developed by one team!
Heck, I would be glad to work on such a project if they'd let us help in the development. That was indeed one thing Apple did that was cool, they let their developer network folks help develop for the platform so that there were programs running on Aqua when it launched! It could be done here too.
Anyhow, my opinion is well stated in many places on this forum, so I am going to try not to restate it here.
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@irishmike:
I don't get it: first you complain that everybody and his dog keeps Unix compatability and basically leave you only the choice of the GUI system used - and one paragaph later you demand that AmigaOS should be turned into a GUI for a Unix system?
As far as I'm concerned, turning AmigaOS into just another Unix GUI would have way more drawbacks than benefits. The GUI never was AmigaOS' strong point anyway, there are only three somewhat remarkable things about its GUI anyway (close button at the top left, screen title bar + menues, depth gadget).
In contrast to that, there are a lot of nice things you'd loose: backwards compatability, a sensible directory structure, extreme responsiveness to name just a few.
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@TheMagicM
Someone's going to come up with a way to take brains from dead people and make them into the most awesomest computer system ever. One brand will be called Amigas, and will use, exclusively, brains from dead female illegal border crossers from mexico to the USA. This source will be the cheapest because in the mean time, such illegal crossings will have increased so much that there will be so many more dead mexicans in the desert and the company that uses the brains will be the company that also dabbles in desert clean up.
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The Amiga had such a tight integration between it's OS and it's hardware. I was really the first of a few modern home computer operating systems. The next real innovation/evolution in my mind was networking. Amiga OS had none and was a single user OS, which have all but disappeared these days. A new, from the ground up multi-user OS would be neat, but not groundbreaking.
It's interesting that the Internet came along and networking became so vital that we had to engineer things around multi user systems such as VMS and UNIX.
When home computers were in their infancy things were much more exciting for everyone involved! Now, we've kind of grown up, seen so much more and it's not so exciting anymore.
We've hit a sort of plateau on so many consumer technologies.
Everyone is doing it, and when that happens you get lots of noise and less innovation. So, the real question is, what comes after this information age? I think we need to imagine a change from somewhere outside of "networking" or "cpu power" or "better graphics" to realize what the technological future really holds. I'm ready for the real space age myself.
Some alternative operating systems:
Microsoft Singularity (http://slashdot.org/articles/05/11/03/1744230.shtml)
SkyOS (http://www.skyos.org/)
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weirdami wrote:
This source will be the cheapest because in the mean time, such illegal crossings will have increased so much that there will be so many more dead mexicans in the desert and the company that uses the brains will be the company that also dabbles in desert clean up.
Wouldn't this be seen as a conflict of interest? More dead people=more brains=more raw material=more product=(theoretically) more profit? :-D
As for the original topic, the only thing I can think of that would impress ME would be a true 3D GUI manipulated by, for example, something similar to Nintendo's old Power Glove...
... although for the life of me, I couldn't think of any practical USE for such a GUI. It'd be interesting nonetheless.
Now if we're talking about something completely revolutionary, I'd like to see someone perfect a computer I can wear without looking like a 'tard. Say, something about the size of a cellphone or PDA, but with a Bluetooth HUD built into a pair of sunglasses.
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@Cgutjahr
Yes I have stated that the future of Amiga OS is to build a gui that is "AmigaOS like" ontop of UNIX many times. I would dearly love to see a departure from that model if it could be done in a way that is as solid as those UNIX boxes.
Since I use UNIX based OSes personally, I don't know of a way to get that kind of rock solid performance without UNIX, so it is very much a dicotomy for me. Love of UNIX vs Love of AmigaOS. Although (as stated in many threads) I see the future being the very same as MacOS... you have the MacOS classic which is version 7-9 and then you have the modern supported face of OS X. The classic interface is like Macintosh Retro. There are people who are adamant about not switching to OS X because they love their pre-OS X system... just like I feel there will be always the Amiga retro side using up to OS 3.9 and then there will be the future OS 4 on up. So I am not "demanding" anything, just stating my opinion.
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@weirdami,
Okay, now I know where your nickname comes from (a little too sick for me, and possibly very racist and sexist to some people).
Did I miss something by not reading the whole thread that would show me you are responding to some joke?
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@irishmike,
My personal opinion is that computer hardware and certain geniuses of computer software could make what ever we want possible at this point in time. It is just a matter of desire and combined effort and time to make just about anything possible (plus money of course). I don't see any reason that it is impossible to have AmigaOS 3.9, or 4.0 extended and running on any hardware we want with all the faults and short-comings fixed.
It is just a matter of someone (some group of people) that decide that they want to make the time and effort to make something happen. It is with this belief that I wish AmigaOS3.9 for 680x0 would be released to Open Source. Who would be hurt is Classic Amiga users were allowed to work on the OS for their machines?
Who?
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UNIX has a sound philosophy, but it's full of warts and rust. A major update should be considered, especially where security and localization are concerned. Unfortunately, such things are invisible to end-users and only really affect programmers. There's not much incentive to make a better kernel/OS when you can just put more gloss and eye candy over such old designs.
Irishmike: My feeling is that innovation is nothing more than stealing an idea from an open-source project and mainly I too feel that the computer industry is making more or less an appliance for the masses.
Concerning the "theft" of ideas, I usually see the opposite. Just about every desktop for Linux looks and works like a Windows or Mac system. I've tried over ten distros of Linux and about 25 OSes overall, and I've never used any one of them for more than a week.
Ironicly, the only OS I've used in the last 5 years that I found really interesting was an old copy of OS/2 (version 2.0). It was a lot of fun to play with, but certainly not very stable or flexible. I learned a lot of BAD design tips to avoid by using OS/2. ;)
I agree with the "appliance for the masses." Part of the reason why everything looks like Windows/Mac is because the alternatives are trying to appeal to the mass market. Only power users really seek out alternatives.
Irishmike: What is a keen example of what I am talking about is a new feature of Windows (Vista) which looks keenly like an idea that Sun Microsystems had out on their open-source project called Looking Glass. The Windows implementation of "flip" and "flip 3D" looks exactly like Looking Glass.
My feeling is that we should be looking for ways to consolidate information to reduce clutter, rather than find new, flashy ways to flip between windows. Compare Windows Explorer to Total Commander.
Irishmike: What I don't get is why Amiga, Inc or Hyperion don't simply write their own GUI on top of a *NIX base (just the way Apple did) and make it therefore able to run on any platform that the kernel would support?
I think it's because Hyperion seriously underestimated the improvement in graphics on hand-held systems, and were trying to make a really fast proprietary 2D solution with 3D just tacked on, like the original Amiga. Any embedded system powerful enough to have a PPC processor needs more than that, and anything less is going to run on ARM.
Amiga Inc. was on the right track with AmigaDE. Too bad they just didn't release anything that looked like it really was based on a next-gen platform. Slot machines? Come on.
I don't like Java that much, but after seeing a demo of SavaJe (http://www.savaje.com), it's really changed my impression of where we need to go as far as OS design is concerned. I've seen quite a bit of that platform and what it can do. Plus, Java programmers are plentiful. That means a lot to companies that want to build "toy" applications for their products, like games, messaging services, etc.
GreggBZ: We've hit a sort of plateau on so many consumer technologies.
When it comes to tools, yes. I'd prefer only a modernization of UNIX, but a brand new programming language. Programming, especially GUI development, needs to be made much easier.
A few years ago, I read The Mytical Man Month, and I was very surprised to hear the author say (in the 80's), that computers were basicly fast enough to do anything... it was the system architecture and team management that was the problem. Granted, the author began his programming career in the 60's. The longer you work on computers, the more you realize speed is not the solution. I don't think a lot of people really understand what responsiveness means.
Dovegrace: As for the original topic, the only thing I can think of that would impress ME would be a true 3D GUI manipulated by, for example, something similar to Nintendo's old Power Glove...
Given that a sheet of paper is still one of the most powerful and frequently used tools used by man, I'm not sure a virtual 3D environment is the solution. 2D is still the best for data representation. There's a reason why the virtual reality craze died out in the early 90's.
I see most "VR" controllers as short-lived trends. Tablet screens, like on TabletPCs and the NintendoDS, have a huge amount of potential. If early PDA's hadn't been so proprietary and sluggish, they would have survived the onslaught of other trendy gadgets, like cell phones, and evolved into a much more mature platform. I'm disappointed that laptop computers are still so popular.
BTW, the Power Glove was developed by Abrams/Gentile Entertainment.
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too bad SkyOS isnt a free download.. I'll keep watching it and maybe buy it later on.
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Any new computing solution is going to surprise us all,I think.
Historically every new tchnology has many people starting new companies or divisions to produce their version of the new wonder. At one time the U.S. had over a hundred automobile makers,then a couple dozen,then only a handful. Likewise home computers began with tinkerers then dozens of companies ,each promoting similar but incompatible hardware/software. Several early platforms of great technical merit fell through poor marketing or management blunders.
Ultimately,every product category,from automobiles to clothing, seems to mature with several huge companies dominating that market for mass production with numerous specialty companies serving those who want that item/product in a special regional/low-fat/high-performance/customized/personalized/organic/ or in some other way different version.Think boutique or niche markets
Seldom does the mass market item embody the characteristics valued by enthusiasts.
I can't see how the Amiga or AmigaOS will ever be other than a niche market especially in view of the decisions by every company that has held the commercial rights.All the wounds to Amiga have been self-inflicted.It really deserves a chapter in "Out of the Jaws of Victory".
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@weirdami
Someone's going to come up with a way to take brains from dead people and make them into the most
That's definitly one of the most twisted ideals I've heard. You've been watching the "Spocks Brain" episode of Star Trek again? Scientifically a good idea. But wether harvested or artificially grown, a biological computer may come with unwanted emotional bagage. Even dumb plants are said to have emotions. "Sorry I can't get ont the net today, my computer's in a bad mood." :lol:
BTW, the last cool thing I've run across is vmware.
Plaz
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Given that a sheet of paper is still one of the most powerful and frequently used tools used by man, I'm not sure a virtual 3D environment is the solution. 2D is still the best for data representation. There's a reason why the virtual reality craze died out in the early 90's.
As I said, it'd be hard to find a practical use for the 3D environment. Still be interesting to see how someone would pull it off.
As for VR dying out, I don't think it's dead completely. Rather, it became a sort of spiritual predecessor to the "virtual online worlds" that seem to be popular these days. Can't remember the name offhand, but it reminded me of "Better Than Life" from Red Dwarf...
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Actually, there is an very very real use for a 3D interface, even on a 2D screen. Vista, OSX, et al are *NOT* 3D interfaces. They merely present a 3D look and feel, much like games such as Wolfenstein.
I wrote - albeit very clumsily - on this here
here - UKCentral (http://www.ukcentral.co.uk/technology/technology/vista-disappointments-2-%11-the-interface.html)
A true 3D *interactive* interface would bring huge productivity gains. Please, read the article (and feel free to comment on it there as well)
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I would like to write this very long answer on this one, attacking the problem from various angles and who knows what.
But... thing is... no matter how pathetic it may sound... I think that the main reason to why things have seemed to come to a halt... it that computing have gotten mainstream.
Today when, like, 95% of the world is running Windows, they simply feel perfectly happy with that. They do get scared when having to update to a new OS, or even a new version of Windows (which also could be the reason of updating the OS is becoming more and more autmated). The more mainstream, the less innovation. I do believe it could be as simple as that, if stripping away all the two million arguments that it simply can't be that easy... that there's fourteen million other aspects that has to be taken into consideration. Well, so it may be then.
So... will we have to wait another 10 years? Well, I think we could have to wait longer than that... just look at how long it took for the television to evolve into something better, once it had gotten mainstream. And what do we get? Flat screens which, no matter how you look at it, will bring problems with pixel aspect ratio and too visible MPEG compression into each and everyones home (at least here in Sweden where most of the digitally sent channels look like pure crap as soon as too much is starting to happen on the screen), people looking at 4:3 sent video signals in 16:9 format... and, god knows what. People in general don't care about quality. They buy what they is led to believe is quality... and every now and then things that in reality could be considered as 'worse' get the people vote as being the 'best' and voilá... there is no turning back. Because yet another change, that would simply be too much to handle.
I'm personally getting really tired of the constant pressure of having to 'update' this or that. I'm bothered by the fact that people with money is doing all they can to make way for the next CD-format... with the main argument that more is better. I'm tired of having to deal with people selling hardware and software they know nothing about (just having had a crash course in how to sell stuff to people). Well, what do you know...
It feels like a fresh breeze seeing Nintendo trying to change the way we LOOK at, and PLAY games. Instead of putting a better graphics chip and a faster processor, inside the console just to be able to play FIFA 2009 or Ridge Racer 152 with even more realistic graphics. I just wish that something similar soon will happen with computing and the OS'es we use on a daily basis. Vista just feels like WindowsXP Ultra Mega Deluxe. Not 'the next step'.
So, to answer another one of your questions... I don't have the slightest clue what 'the next step' will be until I see it. Like the majority of the computer using people out there. Just like I had no clue that Nintendo, with Wii, would hit the spot and within a matter of seconds convince me that what they will offer in the near future is the future of gaming.
The only thing I have a clue about is that the way things look and feel today, when I'm toying around with my computers, is not in any way nearly as fun as it was some ten years ago. I do it because I have to. Not because I want to. And everything else I have mentioned, concerning people in general, just adds to the 'have to' side of computer use.
The day when someone presents a way of dealing with the computer in a way that seems attractive to me. Well, then I will know...
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when it was fun (C=64/128/Amiga/Atari) there was always breakthrough technology or something that came out and stirred up alot of commotion.
Back then we didnt have
- internet
- 1600x1200x32 or better gfx
- flat monitors
- free movies and music
- watch movies
- harddisks
- USB
- 16bit sound
- 2GB RAM
- DVD/CDROM
- broadband
- PCI expansion cards
And maybe something else I cant remember. I dont miss technology from 80s.
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Its not a case of missing technology, but missing "fun".
Everything is so bloated - why do we need 2GB RAM? 3GHZ+processors? huge disks? Simple fact is, we don't.
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Everything is so bloated - why do we need 2GB RAM? 3GHZ+processors? huge disks? Simple fact is, we don't
Why we needed an Amiga when C64 at 1MHz and 64kB was enough?
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Based on the analysis that a huge percentage of the internet traffic is porn related,and that much of the graphics are for that and advertising,on the history of photobraphy being used for naughty French cards very early,I make the prediction/observation:
The porn/sex industry are already trying to build a REALLY personal robot(android) that will use lots of computing power for speech interaction and mimicing intimate behavior. It has been reported quite a while ago that certain Japanese were entirely too involved with an on-screen computer "girl".a 3D model would find buyers.I KNOW its sick but people already do/buy a lot of sick stuff.
Banks and other service businesses would love a worker that never argues and always does as told.Just a step up? from telephone voice mail!
Of course this is not a new idea;like the raygun ,atom bombs,etc. there have been such devices?/creatures? in science fiction for years.
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True, for many many tasks. I used to frequent the "bleeding edge" sites, when someone got too carried away or particularly obnoxious with "my rig is faster than yours" I'd put up a simple challenge; "write and print a letter. I bet my rig against yours that I'll have it printed, probably even before yours has POSTed" I didn't state that my rig as a C64 with Easyscript cartridge :-)
My personal view is that a PII is still a perfectly adequate platform for 90% of office users, and probably 80% of home (non-games) users.
The complication with 8-bit comes from graphics. GEOS, for example, was/is good, but very slow on the 64. And without resorting to tricks such as the REU, 64kb isn't quite enough for graphical manipulation.
However, the real reason is simple: multitasking. Something the PC of today still has difficulty with.
itix wrote:
Why we needed an Amiga when C64 at 1MHz and 64kB was enough?
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Oddly enough, porn is/was no longer the predominate traffic on the 'net. P2P traffic is.
There are lies, dammed lies, and stats, and depending on how one expresses a given protocol as a % of "what", (ie total bytes or total transaction transfers), one can argue between P2P and email, notably spam.
However, it is worth noting that the largest customer segment (ex telco's) of a certain well known infrastructure manufacturer was "anonymous", and widely suspect to be the adult entertainment industry :-)
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I think its great that we can take the technology for granted. And that its affordable and increasingly powerful. Even better, those who are even mildly adventurous can swap Windows for an alternative OS with as little as a free live-CD. Try DamnSmallLinux or Knoppix or Ubuntu.
I frugal-installed DSL on an old, junk K6-400 machine the other day, and now have a virtually bulletproof and -damn fast-, run from RAM, set-top, web-surfing box running Firefox for my folks, better yet, plug it into the ADSL connection and it "just works".
When you look at the proprietary/closed systems of the 80's and their marketing/manufacturing objectives, its hard to argue that computer technology would be as advanced as it is today, were those companies still big players.
C= (et al) were busy re-serving the same 8bit technology for 10 years in as many different flavours, before they bought the Amiga, then they dropped 8bit like it was hot and let the Amiga stagnate for another 5+ years before releasing an incremental update.
Yeah, they were fun, but computer tech' has moved on a lot since then. Its a case of moving along with it.
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People who complain about outrageous system requirements are massively impatient, as they want cutting-edge software with ancient hardware. Most OSes, including Windows, work just fine on older hardware. Most games made by GOOD developers adapt to the hardware available, rather than force you to buy a $4,000 "gaming rig."
Focus on function, please, not speed.
PS - I spent the same amount of money on my PC two years ago as I did for my A1200. I see no reason to spend $1,000+ for my next computer, which will be a Conroe.
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However, the real reason is simple: multitasking. Something the PC of today still has difficulty with.
I'd have to differ on that point. At work (I'm a Linux admin) I routinely have about 20 windows open. 6 xterms shelled into different systems, a spreadsheet or two, e-mail, xmms perhaps, 13 browser tabs, mysql testing, etc..etc.. I reach critical mass before my workstation does, although firefox has a bad habit of barfing.
Same goes for Windows, which I use at home for development.
I find myself with VS.NET (A real monster), iTunes, Firefox, FTP clients, email, and system folders everywhere. Not usually a problem.
I think *games* modularization of the components and good competition are the catalyst for hardware development, whether we need it or not.
I've heard "Do you plan on playing 3d games" asked by many PC salesmen. If the answer is no, then subtract 600 dollars from the system price.
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ALewis: Actually, there is an very very real use for a 3D interface, even on a 2D screen. Vista, OSX, et al are *NOT* 3D interfaces. They merely present a 3D look and feel, much like games such as Wolfenstein.
What you described in that article rarely works. As usual, it looks good on paper, but is not useful in practice.
Remember those "fake" 3D games like Welltris, and those various (and hideously annoying) 3D breakout games where you shot the ball at a wall in the distance? I shudder to think how that would work with icons!
Here's what I wrote as a comment for your article:
It makes more sense to group windows or rip interface elements from one window and move them to another, or use the zooming paradigm, where windows can be made much smaller and bigger at will (solving a lot of problems for visually impared people to boot). There aren't many people who have solid relational skills to handle interfaces with depth, especially "fake" depth. You should always avoid "stacking" stuff, if possible.
Also, setting up a consistant work area with custom window styling helps. This work area is saved and restored whenever you log in. You don't have to fumble with large folder views if you create groups of your favorite folders with special borders with all the useless peripheral buttons removed. Today's GUI toolkits don't allow much flexibility as far as removing "standard" window elements.
We've had picture within picture on our TVs for a while. We've had virtual desktops for a while. Why not combine both ideas? Isn't that why windows were created?
Application support for clever organization depends on what GUI toolkit is used. Regardless of what tools the OS offers, developers will usually respect system-wide programming guidelines, but will rarely, if ever, use only system tools to write their software. Java suffers from this problem considerably (probably given how many times Sun rewrote their toolkit -- and it still sucks).
BTW, WinFS was canned, at least in its exiting form. I doubt it would have been truly useful, as it depends on metadata to acutally store information, and most content creators do a horrid job of setting this vital information. We still sort our MP3s by filename!
What would make more sense is a flexible rules system, allowing people to write rules about how information is displayed, based on type, age, quantity, filename syntax, etc., and allowing you to apply rules to certain folders. Think regular expressions meets folder views. For example, you might have a natural sorting rule, which will sort things as "1, 2, 03, 4, 40". XP does this by default, and I find it annoying as my UNIX servers and application tools do not. Another rule is that any folder that contains a catalog would automatically count the number of records and display it as a property in the folder view. XP can be configured to do some of these things, but it requires some nasty registry hacking. A clean, CLI-based way of doing this would be nice, with a simpler GUI-based front-end for people who can't handle scripting. It's basicly filtering, which is what UNIX people have been doing for years by piping the output of command-line programs to text files. Except here, we do it in realtime, inside a folder.
I think this is what the technology inside WinFS was meant to do, but nobody thought about using it that way.
Oh yeah, a CLI bar would be nice, so we could select a bunch of files inside a GUI, which would be stored as a default array. Then, write a single command line, such as:
"pngout $select {$select}*.pn2"
That would take every file selected, make a PNG out of it, and rename it so the file exetension would be ".pn2". Doing this as a traditional batch is sloppy; usually this is a job for Perl, which is a terrific way to add REAL bloat.
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stick a floppy in an XP rig an format it.. and watch the system come to a halt
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TheMagicM wrote:
Please nothing Amiga related. Think outside the box and take the tinfoil hats off.
cue the harp and the clouds, birds chirping..
back in the day of computing..when it was fun (C=64/128/Amiga/Atari) there was always breakthrough technology or something that came out and stirred up alot of commotion.
Nowadays it seems as though its just ho-hum. Nothing really catches my eye and it seems as though the IT world is obsessed with speed/number crunching. Will we have to wait 10+ years for another groundbreaking achievement in computing? What is the next big thing that should be accomplished? What are we looking for? Drop the 'fan favorite' cpu talk (like sticking to PPC). x86 isnt bad. So what we're really after is a good operating system?
Funny, I was thinking about this earlier today, computing really doesn't excite me anymore, even in the days of 486 and Pentium, it was quite exciting, not as exciting as the C64/Amiga days, but it was certainly better than now.
Personally, I think it has something to do with the fact that we have reached a point where the most basic modern system can do just about everything the average home user could want it to do. In the 486 days, you could shell out 5 or 6 grand on a high end machine and it still would struggle with a then current game, thats not the case anymore. Sure with an entry level system you won't get fancy graphics, but the game will still be very playable.
Last year I moved from an Athlon 2500+ Barton based machine to an Athlon 64 4000+ and didn't notice any difference in perfomance with day to day tasks. However, having read some articles pertaining to Windows Vista RC1, things do look a little bleak. E.g. machines running a GeForce 7900 were experiencing excessive fan noise because the chip was running at 100% just trying to render the bloody GUI. How on earth is that supposed to be exciting? Let alone ground breaking? The only thing something like that breaks is the bank. Meh, personally, I loathe this technological age we now live in, computers are no longer just a hobby, they are part of our day to day routine and routine is, IMO, a tad boring.
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alewis wrote:
stick a floppy in an XP rig an format it.. and watch the system come to a halt
Seriously, I just tried it, (formating a floppy, it took some real digging to actually find one here at work) it wasn't that bad. I could still browse use openoffice etc.. And I'd say my 2.5Ghz PC did it at least 5%-6% faster then my A1200 :lol:
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GreggBz wrote:
Seriously, I just tried it, (formating a floppy, it took some real digging to actually find one here at work) it wasn't that bad. I could still browse use openoffice etc.. And I'd say my 2.5Ghz PC did it at least 5%-6% faster then my A1200 :lol:
LOL! I get the hour hand when I do it. Sure, I can still download, but not a lot else.
What, pray, are you doing browsing Amiga sites whilst at work ;-)
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Hmm breaktrughs or new exiting things in todays computerworld ? Hmmm not that big ones but for me at leased Is the chip market the upcoming PPU "when it becomes usefull" physics processing unit btw, as well as i am interested in seeing the ATI\AMD chip cpu\gpu combination and how cheap it is and not too say power efficient.. Just minor things really but things are happnening like quad core annyone? with hyperthreading and 4 cores will soon be real.. Seems we are hitting a multicore market now with better multitasking compability something that i have missed to be honest... To be allowed to run several hard core power hungry 3d,video,rendering apps at the same time and allow you to have more workflow.. I have had the feeling for the previous years that the software always want more than the best hardware can give but now with my latest dual intel Dual-Core Xeon 3ghz seems no software is able to break it as hardware is winning back its place the same goes for say my gaming computer a amd x2 4400 with 1 gig mem or even my core duo notebook they all are much better hardware compared to programs requirements for say 2 years ago IMO! ...
As for new os i have moved too Ubuntu linux and do 80% of all my work from there :-P and it will only become better and better and at leased this os work as you want it too work ..
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There is a new platform, it's called the Internet. This platform is not specific to an OS or hardware.. it is something else entirely.
The internet didn't even exist (at least, not for commonplace use) back when I was an Amiga loving teenager.
Since then it has become the cornerstone of modern day communications.
The Internet lets me learn about what's going on in the world with a degree of honesty and speed not previously possible. I can research pretty much anything and draw my own conclusions. I can sleep soundly knowing that no one, not even the USA, can control what I learn or know about.
As time goes by, the Internet becomes more and more central to the way I do my computing. I firmly believe that in another 10 - 15 years, we will be doing the vast majority or our computing using Internet servers. Google is paving the way (and boy oh boy do those guys Innovate!), but there's other companies too making inroads.
We don't need another OS or hardware platform. We just need even faster bandwidth and better software to exploit it.
Another area of major innovation, perhaps not in the next 10 years, but certainly in the 20 - 30 range, is going to be robotics. Robotic assistants, pets, etc will be the Amiga to kids of the future - they will bring the joy and fun that we had with it. Research and sales in this area is going nuts, and this only increase.
End of rant. :-)
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ALewis: stick a floppy in an XP rig an format it.. and watch the system come to a halt
This is a hardware issue. Get a USB floppy (free of horrible ISA legacy hardware), and your problems will disappear.
Adz: Funny, I was thinking about this earlier today, computing really doesn't excite me anymore, even in the days of 486 and Pentium, it was quite exciting, not as exciting as the C64/Amiga days, but it was certainly better than now.
I agree 100%. The problem is that there was more emphasis on creativity back then. You know, when your Amiga came bundled with DPaint. These days, it's all about shoveling content you don't want into your face.
That's why I like Oekaki. Artists (sometimes very talented ones with tablets) get together and draw pictures online in a forum-like atmosphere. Paintchat is the same, but it's in realtime, like a chat room. That's a million times more fun than browsing web sites.
Oh, if only Windows came with Oekaki and not Solitaire...
BTW, the name is weird because it's a Japanese thing.
Adz: However, having read some articles pertaining to Windows Vista RC1, things do look a little bleak. E.g. machines running a GeForce 7900 were experiencing excessive fan noise because the chip was running at 100% just trying to render the bloody GUI. How on earth is that supposed to be exciting?
Unfortunately, GPU manufacturers haven't put any serious thought into throttling like CPU manufacturers have, so as long as 3D is active, processor utilization will always be close to 100%.
As with CPUs, 100% utilization doesn't mean the chips are being stressed to their limit. Hopefully, the introduction of Vista will force GPU developers to rethink their tactics, which really should have been done five years ago.
Adonay: Hmm breaktrughs or new exiting things in todays computerworld ? Hmmm not that big ones but for me at leased Is the chip market the upcoming PPU "when it becomes usefull" physics processing unit
Blech. PPUs are not as accurate as CPU calculations, which is one reason they are faster. This fad is pretty dumb -- a throwback to math coprocessors. As more standardized tools become available, PPUs will die quickly in favor of more generalized vector units.
Nycran: There is a new platform, it's called the Internet. This platform is not specific to an OS or hardware.. it is something else entirely.
LAMP? XML? AJAX?
I think I'm going to be sick. :egad:
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I 100% agree! And I thought AROS was an attempt in this area.
irishmike wrote:
@Cgutjahr
Yes I have stated that the future of Amiga OS is to build a gui that is "AmigaOS like" ontop of UNIX many times. I would dearly love to see a departure from that model if it could be done in a way that is as solid as those UNIX boxes.
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Waccoon wrote:
This is a hardware issue. Get a USB floppy (free of horrible ISA legacy hardware), and your problems will disappear.
Been there, done it, tried it. And it didn't work. 5 different USB floppies, didn't work on any of my rigs, nor any in the shop. Sony units, too....
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@sdyates
I looked at AROS, and maybe I am missing something, but isn't it fully an emulator? Maybe it only runs on Intel based boxes -- (of which I have zero currently)... but it seemed to me that it was an emulation or some such thing like that, so I lost interest very quickly reading their site.
They may indeed however be on the right track, whose to say?
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@irishmike:
AROS to me I thought was a rewrite of the Amiga OS to run on a x86 box.. The AmigaOS in any flavor isnt the future. We have the systems but there is little if any commercial software support.
...but this isnt about the Amiga or any flavor of it.
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itix wrote:
when it was fun (C=64/128/Amiga/Atari) there was always breakthrough technology or something that came out and stirred up alot of commotion.
Back then we didnt have
- internet
- 1600x1200x32 or better gfx
- flat monitors
- free movies and music
- watch movies
- harddisks
- USB
- 16bit sound
- 2GB RAM
- DVD/CDROM
- broadband
- PCI expansion cards
And maybe something else I cant remember. I dont miss technology from 80s.
Internet?? Wrong! We most certainly did have that in the 1980s! It was all command line navigation in those days, but it was most definately the start of the "internet" age. I used to file flight plans when I was a student pilot in ~1986 online using Compuserv with my Atari ST! We also had prodigy which was soon followed by AOL plus thousands of private BBS systems, and soon the emergence of the "ISPs" in ~early 1989.
16 bit sound?? Wrong again. There are several, but one that comes to mind is the Atari TT030 (circa 1988).
Harddisks?? Been around since at least the mid 1980s if not earlier. PCs had 'em. Even old Macs - the ones that look like training toilets - had 'em.
DVD/CDRom?? Correct about DVD. But CDRoms have been around since, like, 1982? I remember buying Van Halen "1984" on CD instead of Vinyl!
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irishmike wrote:
@sdyates
I looked at AROS, and maybe I am missing something, but isn't it fully an emulator? Maybe it only runs on Intel based boxes -- (of which I have zero currently)... but it seemed to me that it was an emulation or some such thing like that, so I lost interest very quickly reading their site.
They may indeed however be on the right track, whose to say?
Emulators suck donkey nads. Its just another (*yawn*) "me-too" wintel box with a nice looking shellac. I personally wouldn't pay a dime for one. On second thought, maybe I would buy one...? I would just pay with emulated money.
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Internet?? Wrong! We most certainly did have that in the 1980s! It was all command line navigation in those days, but it was most definately the start of the "internet" age. I used to file flight plans when I was a student pilot in ~1986 online using Compuserv with my Atari ST! We also had prodigy which was soon followed by AOL plus thousands of private BBS systems, and soon the emergence of the "ISPs" in ~early 1989.
I know. But compared to 2006 it was like jurassic era.
16 bit sound?? Wrong again. There are several, but one that comes to mind is the Atari TT030 (circa 1988).
Now, what could you do with it? Not play MP3s at least and folk computers (Amiga 500 and Atar ST) had only 8bit. Sound cards for PC were still expensive.
Harddisks?? Been around since at least the mid 1980s if not earlier. PCs had 'em. Even old Macs - the ones that look like training toilets - had 'em.
Expensive, slow and small but not physically small.
DVD/CDRom?? Correct about DVD. But CDRoms have been around since, like, 1982? I remember buying Van Halen "1984" on CD instead of Vinyl!
Audio CD != CDROM! But there was cdrom drive (with games on cd) even for C64. And CDTV. But nothing like today. Today we can buy cheap DVD+CD combos for few bucks and you can write your own CDs. Or Audio CDs. Few bucks more and you can burn your own home videos.