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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Vlabguy1 on August 22, 2006, 12:16:28 AM
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I need tons of help!! I have an Amiga4000T with a Cybervision64
graphics card, whicho does not seem to work. The basic video
output works..ie a 1084 plugged into the video port works.
I tested all the Zorro3 slots, show config shows card as working..and I also
tried another Cybervsion64 card..Any thoughts on this from anyone!! I did
notice a missing 12v from one of my PS outputs was dead ..Does this help?
Thanks everyone
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First of all do you have any graphics system (driver) installed like Picasso96 or CybergraphX?
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Yes I should have been more clear. I have Cybergraphics4 installed.
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send me the tower. I will send you a desktop with the cd64 card running.. we will call it even...
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Gee thanks, but no thanks!
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errr fine.... I think I had to install from the origional floppy's form phase5 to get mine up and running but that was the cv64/3d. I just got a "new" cv64 that I will install in a 3k, will let you know how that goes tho.
good luck...
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Thanks. Ok..let me say this..the card+Tower have been working fine..I messed
up on the software end..not sure now what I did but I totally messed it up..
So I decided on a fresh install of OS3.1+cybergraphXv.4 I did not however use
the orig. cybergraphx disk(which I have btw). Also, upon boot up to the
NTSC(1084monitor) which is fine. When I go to switch to a cybergraphx screen mode..it seems to switch but I get nothing on monitor thats hooked up to the
CG64 card. Maybe your right in that I have to have installed the orig. CG disk then upgrade to the latest version cybergraphx..sounds strange but is this possible?
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o.k. I did not have that much luck last night getting the cv64 running in my a3k. I have a few questions of my own if I may... sorry I don't want to steal this thread, and I don't want to start anthor on such a similar topic. so...
I had a cv64/3d running in the a3k that was working just fine. I decided to replace the cv64/3d with the cv64 becasue of the monitor passtrough/switching thing. Simply swapping the card was a no go. I think this is where I messed up. I installed the driver overtop of the old driver and enabled the passthrou option. Partial succes. the pass trough is working the showcgxconfig telles my I have the card installed. but I can slect the cgx screen res in the screen mode selector, it like half of an install! I have since tried removing old drivers and libs.... reinstralling v3 and then upgrading to 4.1. just 4.1.. al with the exact same result. I would say screw it and do a fresh os install but my os install is NICE and aside this works SUPER and there is an 060 and other stuff I don't want to reinstall. Any ideas on what I did wrong?
thanks
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@Vlabguy1:
Are you using the output connector on the CV64 and not the input connector for its autoswitcher?
Btw1, the card worked before the reinstall, so it is very very unlikely that it has gone broken and about 99.999999% probability that the software is wrong.
Btw2, the original disks contain CyberGraphX v2 which is very outdated and should not be used.
/Patrik
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patrik,
I actually checked both ports..with same result..ie nothing on the screen.
Yes the card worked just fine til I started messing the OS..I think I mixed
some files from 3.9 and 3.1..But have since reformatted and installed just
3.1 which works just fine with a 1084 on the 4000T(ie. not useing the
paasthrough option on the CV64)..I hope it is not the mother board..could
that be possible. Although the show config shows card is working, but
Im not sure how "smart" the show config is, ifyou know what I mean.
Thanks
Rich
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As it worked before and the second card didn't make any difference, it can be rather safely assumed that the card is working correctly.
The output port is the one closest to the rectangular hole in the backplate.
It is not hard to get a card like this to work.
With a clean 3.1 installation, it is just a matter of running the CyberGraphX 4 install and after the reboot you should be able to select a CV64 screenmode from the Prefs/Screenmode program to get some output from it.
/Patrik
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Patrik,
Tried that..fresh install and select CV64 screen..and the computer seems to do the switch ie the 1084 turns off..but then nothing on the CV64 monitor..and Ive tried several known working monitors..mmmm..Im confused .could it be my motherboard, the video module for the 4000T???
Thanks alot everyone who is trying to solve this with me :-)..
Peace
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The A4000T video module does not have anything to do with the CV64. Only the original A4000T AGA video output depends on the video module. That should make sense by common logic reasoning!
Are you 100 percent sure you are using the connector closest to the rectangular hole of the CV64's backplate?
What is the mode you are trying to use called exactly and what horizontal and vertical frequencies does it have (can be read to the right if you when it is marked (one click on it) in Prefs/Screenmode)?
What model/make is the monitor you are using for test?
/Patrik
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anybody have ideas how to do this WITHOUT a fresh install? the uninstall scrips keep crashing and im not sure im iuninstalling everything.. so frustrating as it clearly working I just can switch the res!
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@Pierre:
Removing these files and directories will remove both CyberGraphX and Picasso96:
ENVARC:CyberGraphX
ENVARC:cybergraphics
ENVARC:Picasso96
ENVARC:Sys/screenmode.prefs
SYS:Prefs/Presets/monitors
LIBS:cgxsystem.library
LIBS:cgxvideo.library
LIBS:cgxbootpic.library
LIBS:cybergraphics.library
LIBS:cyberintuition.library
LIBS:cyberlayers.library
LIBS:vilintuisup.library
LIBS:Picasso96
SYS:Prefs/CGXMode
SYS:Prefs/CGXMode.info
SYS:Prefs/CyberGraphX
SYS:Prefs/CyberGraphX.info
SYS:Prefs/Picasso96Mode
SYS:Prefs/Picasso96Mode.info
SYS:Prefs/PVS
SYS:Prefs/PVS.info
Not all files/directories will exist in your system, but just keep going through the list from start to end.
Also, in SYS:Devs/Monitors you need to remove a file which is called something like CyberVision64, CV64, CVision64, Picasso96, P96. When you find it, also remove its .info file.
A reboot afterwards is required.
Btw, in which way cant you switch resolutions? Sometimes bad software will make it impossible for workbench to change resolution (it cant close the screen). The only way then is to select a resolution, save and then reboot. You will then have the new resolition at next boot. Try disabling everything in your WBStartup and User-Startup and then see if you can switch resolutions then.
/Patrik
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Patrik,
Yes the cybergrahpx Vs. the AGA video output does makes sense. Riddle me this if all else could the motherboard be at fault here, which is my worst fear!
At the moment Im not at my computer :-(..
the monitor is a Viewsonic 19" not sure which model but I will find out..I also
been useing an Idek 17" you know the one they used to sell just for the Amgia
way back when..
Resolution is 1024x768..nothing too crazy and with out being at my Amiga not sure the frequencies..
I have full confidence that we/I will get this up and running again..but has anyone run into a similar problem and the fault being the Motherboard???
Again thanks for everyone helping out with this!!!Just to let everyone know that I have been an Amiga fan since before they were released and a proud owner since 1988..
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i am just about to do this purge. thanks.
currently I can not even view the cgx displaymodes in the screen mode selector. they are not available. hope this fixes it.
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If you could please post your results..
Thanks
Rich
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so far removing the files..rebooting...reinstalling 4.1 drivers did not work. I am "pretty" sure the card works and totaly sure the computer is working so it must be something with my OS/install. it pains me that i will try this fresh install and then maybe have the same result! I must be doing something wrong?
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Have you 3.9 BB2? You need better than CGX 4.1
http://www.gregdonner.org/os39faq/compatibility.html#16
This has v42.7 lib:
http://vgr.tc3net.com/cgx/cgxv42_rc5.lha
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Thanks for the reply. Im actually running OS3.1 The Cybergraphx software intalls fine and Im able to select screen modes from the prefs. but when I
select a CV mode the computer does the switch but with out any output to
my know working monitor.
I ask again could this be a Motherboard problem???
Thanks again
Rich
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take a look in SYS:Devs/monitors/ if the CV632D(?) file, have its icon.
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I know that this isn't totally on subject, but for future reference I suggest that you take a look at this photo that I posted: Important C64 3D graphics card mod
Sorry if your board isn't the same, but drivers or no drivers, monitor or no monitor, the two lattice chips on my C64 3D run aufully hot. If your gfx card has one of these chips and its cold after a hour with power applied, then i'd suspect that it could be fried.
Hodgkinson
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@zipper
that would explain a few things... VERY good info, I did have 3.9 with boing bag 2 and rom update!
I'm am a bit frustrated as I have now reformated my "very nice install" ripped my 060 mkII out of the box! I reinstalled 3.1 but now can't get the cdrom back online! I'm sure all my hardware is working I just don't know if I have the time to EVER get it back together...all becasue I wanted to make a simple change. The cv64 should go into the a3000 so that I can use the built in scandoubler with the monitor switch on board and the cv64/3d would go live in the a4k... SHOULD be easy! The amiga is not "Plug and play" and is a far cry from it... it actualy has the WORST system for upgrading and installing hardware AND software that I have EVER seen. Wnat to change somethign on the system ... gee forget all the time you spend setting things up becasue now you have to redo it all again... I hope that morphOS or OS4 have figured this stuff out becasue the classic sucks!
Sorry for the rant but I needed it.
thanks for the help.
PS.
No I do not think your motherboard has anything to do with your issues, it's (bad) software. If your mother board had issues you would notice that BEFORE you even got the cv64 install.
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@Pierre
Thanks for the PS at the end of your post!! I will keep that in mind and now
not lose any sleep over this one. Im going to try a Retina Z3, then
a PicassoIV..then trying to think of some other boards I have that I could
test. I prob wont get back to til this Sat.
But Im still confused as to how I have bad software..which is could be
bad my OS 3.1 or the Cybergrapx??
Thanks again for all your intput.
Rich
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rich, I think its your monitor config. Your monitor is not syncing.. what did you set it to during the install. I gives you a list to shoose from ... 80htz....ext. try a lower setting see if that helps. bad software, i mean botched install....
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Pierre
Thanks for the response. Even though I have done several installs I will keep
trying. My worst fear is that the motherboard is toasted, which would not be
good :-(..And I dont even know how that would be possible. I will post any
and all results for sure. If anyone has/had a similar prob. let me know what
happened with that..please!
Thanks again
Rich
Just one more thing..I tested all the ports and I have a voltage loss on the serial port??? Could this be a failing PowerSupply and could this effect my
Screen mode switching??
I know its a long shot, but I figured I would ask
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@Pierre:
You don't need to reinstall your system.
@Vlabguy1:
If your motherboard was toasted, you would not come as far as being able to select a CV64 screenmode. And when on the subject - how in the world would you have managed to fry it by reinstalling the os?
Btw, what processor card do you have? If you have the stock Commodore 040-card, make sure you have 68040.library in LIBS:, if you have say a Phase5 040 or 060-card, make sure you have their 68040/68060.library in LIBS: installed correctly - see this (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13026) thread.
If the libraries are not ok, the most odd things can happen as they help set the cpus caching policies etc. correctly.
/Patrik
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Patrik,
Could just the video output part of the mother board be fried?? I didnt mean to imply that reinstalling OS would have fried the motherboard..Sometimes these things just burnout. It is an old machine, although with very low hours.
The 060 card that is in the machine is a QuickPak(I believe)board. Which has
been running just great!!!
The more I learn you all of you Im beginning to think its a software thing.
Well, speaking of odd things..could a incorrect OS install cause this problem?
Has anyone run into similar probs with the video output to a graphics card?
Im hoping it just a syncing problem and nothing permanent.
Thanks again Patrik!!
Long live AMIGA!
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@Vlabguy1:
1. There is no video output part of the motherboard, which the CV64 depends on in any way.
2. As you have a 060-card, you MUST install the 68060.library correctly, or else the OS3.1 will think you have a 040 and try running it with the 68040.library. This is NOT supplied with OS3.1, and there should be a disk bundled with your card containing this.
As 3.1 does not know of 68060.library, there should also be a "dummy" 68040.library with the 68060.library on the disk, which should replace the Commodore 68040.library. Its only task is to load 68060.library when the OS asks for 68040.library.
So in short - there should be a disk bundled with your card, containing two files called "68040.library" and "68060.library". Just copy those two files to LIBS: and reboot.
If the 68060.library is not correctly installed, much will act wierd and it is very very possible that the graphics card will be affected.
3. Does the monitor you have connected to the CV64 remain in powersave mode or similar when selecting a CV64 screenmode with Prefs/Screenmode, or is it "active", albeit with a black picture?
/Patrik
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patrik,
1. Makes me feel much better now that it might not be the motherboard. Thx.
2. The 060 files are in the correct place, but perhaps not..I will check double
check then tripple check.
I will check to make sure the 060 disk that came with the card is all OK.
Thx..I didnt even think of that
3. I will double check that as well..but I believe the monitor stayed in
powersave mode.
Thanks again for everyones input and keep it coming! Solving this hopfully
minor problem can save someone else a headache later on down the line.
I will post further info and any and all results.
Thanks again
Rich
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I just wanna say for the record....I got it all working. It happend within 15 mins, it was amazing! dispite anything I have said this was simply great, the amiga rocks!
a big thanks to all who help. I have earned sooo much in the past few months, maybe one day I will get a hang of this stuff.
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@pierre
Care to share how you solved the problem?
I don't know how many times I've read threads about somebody having a problem, a bunch of people offering advice, and then a thanks (or not) is offered with no explanation as to the solution to the problem?
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Yes please share how you did it??
thanks
Rich
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so if I install this 42.7 driver I can I just install bb2 with the rom update?
thanks!
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@yogisumo..
No worries ..I will post all my results..tomorrow when I solve this prob. of mine.
I will be working on for as long as it take this weekend..and I hope that by the
afternoon I should know more and have it fixed, yeah boyee..unless ofcourse
it turns out to be my motherboard.in which case I will be one BUMMED out man.
Take care everyone!!
RichfromNY
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it's NOT the motherboard, I am willing to bet money! those things are sturdy. Please belive me, IT'S NOT THE MOTHER BOARD. Can't be, it's imposible!
I will post what I did once I get some time.
thanks again,
Pierre
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Thank you Pierre for your kind words...and I look fwd to hearing what you did once..
Peace2everyone
Rich
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pierre,
Well here is the bad news... I took my CV64 card out of my 4000T060 and
put it in a 4000Desktop. Installed cybergraphxV4(fresh install) with the pass-
through cable hooked up and the output from the CV64 going to my Idek 17"..All
worked well..upon reboot the cybergraphx logo came up ..then the standard
Amiga mode came up with Workbench(OS3.1)..all is well. I selected a CV sscreen mode ..and it worked..no problems no issues. This tested the monitor
and the card all that used to be hooked up to my 4000T...
So I took everything out reinstalled the CV64 card into my tower..made sure I
did not have any old versions of cybergraphx on the HD of the 4000T..I did
a fresh install of the cybergraphixV4(oh just so you know I had the pass through hooked up as well, and worked fine)..I used the same options as I did when I installled the software on the Desktop..well the software installed just fine
well when I went to change into a cybergraphx mode..the screen goes blank..
I get nothing.
When I do a reboot I get nothing..not even a standard amiga screen through the pass through.
I think my motherboard is toast!! Anythoughts..
I also check all my ports on the back of the computer..and it seems that I have a loss of -10v and +10v on my serial connector?? What is that about?
Is there anyway I can get pinouts for ports of 4000T which shows voltage details..and also..a Zorro 3buss pinout.adn possibly the CV64 ouput pinout..
I will soon test other cards..scsci, Retina, toaster, etc..
My only alternative might be a Cyberstorm PPC with the graphics card option?
Could this be a powersupply issue?
Im bummed out to say the least..
Well there is the update!! The not sooo good news..
Take care and thanks
Rich
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Patrik,
If and when you get a chance check out my lasted post regarding this problem..
Thanks
Rich
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As I said earlier, it sounds very wierd that it should be a hardware issue, when it worked before the OS reinstall.
Anyhow, it is also very wierd that it wont work on your A4000T.
The fact that the CV64 is found working, and recognized by CyberGraphX (else no screenmodes would appear), suggests that if something is wrong, it must be a very minor fault.
The only hardware-issue the A4000T generally suffers from is that the powersupply connectors to the motherboard can overheat, so you should inspect these for burnmarks. If you wont find any, they are fine.
Some things you should try though are:
1. Do a "list LIBS:68#?" in a CLI and verify that 68040.library just is a few kB in size, much smaller than 68060.library.
2. Try another CPU-card. Don't forget to set the INT/EXT (should be marked with "I" and "E" and numbered J100 and J104) jumper-pair correctly, it depends on the CPU-card. C= A3640 (stock A4000 040) needs them set to EXT (E) and C= A3630 (stock A4000 030) needs them set to INT (I) for example.
/Patrik
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Patrik,
Thanks for the info. I will be honest with you regarding the Powersupply connetctor issue, is that the machine prob has a total about 50hrs on her..
and NEVER left on for any period of time unless I was useing the machine.
but I will check the connectors.
Could the fact that I have a -12v/+12v loss on the serial connector have
anything to do with anything??
Im trying to locate a set of schematics for the 4000T motherboard..as well
as all the appropriate voltages for every connector on the back of the machine
including the CV64.
I can and will try the org. CPU card and I will also verify the 040.lib
thanks again and will keep everyone posted..I will be trying other
video cards as well ..
Oh here is another thought..Has anyone heard of ploblems with the
A4000Ts A/V module..ie leaking caps..could this module have caused
some damage or is damaged..I will check to see if mine is ok..
So why do I have a loss of 12v..on the serial connector?
Peace and take care
Rich
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Hmm.. you should check the PSU directly. If I remember correctly, A4000T uses normal AT-PSU (pinout available for example here: http://pinouts.ru/Power/MotherboardPower_pinout.shtml)
If you have the time, you could also use that A4000D hw with your A4000T: boot up your A4kD with CV and clean working install you did before. Copy workbench.library from your A4000T LIBS: to LIBS:. Remove from your A4kD CV, HD and processor-card and put them in your A4000T. Remember to set jumpers (INT/EXT) to same positions you were using in A4kD. Turn the machine on and check if things work now.
If it turns out to be hw-problem, which I really doubt (except for that PSU), there is still no need to totally lose the hope. You can contact these two helpful guys, Anthony Hoffman from amiga.serveftp.net and Jean-Jacques Boulet from www.amigacenter.com. If breaks some day, they can fix it! :-)
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quenthal,
Yes I will check the power supply..but do you think that has anything to
do with the CV not giving me an output?? and or anything to do with
the loss of +12v/-12v??
Thanks.
Rich
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I'm not sure, but if CV depends on 12V-line and it is not supplied in zorro-slots your symptoms could very well be caused by that. Zorro-slot pinouts available here: http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-zorro.shtml
P.S. You could also try that other way to check things out and report here.
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Quenthal..
Thanks for the zorroIII pinout..I can see how the two might be related..ie
the missing 12v..however where could I optain the pinout for the CV64
card??..and or the output of that card..
I might try swapping everything like you said..but that would only confirm??
That my processor card is up and working??
The machine works just fine.in standard Amiga modes..until I try to use the CV64 card..then nothing..I really hope this is not a mother board problem
and just a power supply issue. Im going to try a few other ZorroIII cards to
check that bus..
Thanks again for you help and suggestions..my poor amiga needs me..and
I need her up and running with retargetable graphics..
Rich
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Vlabguy1 wrote:
I might try swapping everything like you said..but that would only confirm??
That my processor card is up and working??
Well, it would confirm that the issue is with the mb or PSU, since they are the only pieces of hardware you are not swapping. In this way you could be more sure that there is no problem with libraries and software - to clarify a bit my instructions:
1) Using your A4000D with Cybervision and single HD with other hw removed. Verify that your clean install works with RTG.
2) Copy from your A4000T workbench.library to your A4000D's LIBS: (wb.lib is not included in the rom in A4kT as it is in A4kD and OS expects it in LIBS).
3) Move turbo, harddrive and CV from A4000D setup to A4kT, change jumpers accordingly and turn the machine on.
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quenthal..
Thanks for the post.. :-)
I did #1 and everything worked just fine...
and #2..checked and double checked the libs..all is good there..
#3 yes I agree I should check the processor board..but wouldnt other
facets of the computer not work if the processor card was bad?
just curious..and I keep coming back to the fact that I have
12v loss on the serial connector..
I have to say that this 4000T has not seen much use and was always in a
temp controlled room(myoffice) and unplugged when not in use.
I think I will do all this swapping as a last resort..
Do powersupplies just go bad like that..or has something shorted out on my
motherboard..ie leaky caps..and doing damage..
your thoughts.
Rich
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Vlabguy1 wrote:
quenthal..
Thanks for the post.. :-)
I did #1 and everything worked just fine...
and #2..checked and double checked the libs..all is good there..
#3 yes I agree I should check the processor board..but wouldnt other
facets of the computer not work if the processor card was bad?
No no, I think you misunderstood me if you meant you've tried what I said:
#1 You have Cybervision working in A4000D. In that machine you have only harddrive, cybervision and turbo card. Now if you want to try all these in your A4000T, you need to first prepare harddrive for usage in it. To do this, you need to do..
#2 copy workbench.library to libs from A4kT
#3 now move physically harddrive, CV and turbo from A4kD to A4kT.
Sorry if I was the one who misunderstood, english is not my native language.. :-P
This might confirm that the problem is not with the OS (it worked in the A4kD with CV), libraries (it worked with same turbo in A4kD with CV) or settings (same as in functional A4kD with CV) since you are using same harddrive, nor with the turbo itself.
You can see visually if capacitators are going to die - check amiga.serveftp.net. But I don't think they are to blame. It is not uncommon for PSU to die like that.
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quenthal,
Thanks again for your post and clarification..I understand now..and dont
worry about the english language..I mess it up all the time.. :-)
I will try all what you said when I have time..that is a big job!! I will have
to wait til the weekend to do that..but I can check the power supply and
other graphics/ZorroIII cards as well as check the motherboard for any leaky
Caps.. I hope its just the power supply..
So maybe the 12v from the serial port and ZorroIII bus are the same?? or shared?
I think that is a good question.
Must be nice in Finland??
I was born in Germany and I love it there
Rich
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So maybe the 12v from the serial port and ZorroIII bus are the same?? or shared?
I think that is a good question.
More than likely. You should really take the time to check the power supply directly. The A4000T uses an AT Power supply. Here's the pin out. Good luck.
Mike
http://pinouts.ru/Power/MotherboardPower_pinout.shtml
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Thanks for the post..
So are these AT power supplies a direct plug in..with the A4000T motherboard?
Let me get this straight.. the 4000T uses an AT PS..not a ATX PS..is this
correct?
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Thanks for the post..
So are these AT power supplies a direct plug in..with the A4000T motherboard?
Let me get this straight.. the 4000T uses an AT PS..not a ATX PS..is this
correct?
Yes, as others have stated, this is correct. Now test that power supply so we can eliminate that as the problem point (or not)!
Mike
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@mdivancic,
Thanks for the reply..I hope to get a chance this weekend to finally fix or know
what the problem is and will post the results..Thanks again for everyones
input and advice!! :-)
Have fun and take care
RichfromNY
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@Vlab
...?
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MMMM...sorry folks..have not had a chance to solve me Amiga problem. I will though have no fear. Just been busy with a move and tryin to arrange my new place..I live in an old castle now..built in 1870.. :-)
And just accuired another 4000T with Toaster/Flyer and a few other cards in there..plus a Driv-In tower(with no HDs :-( .....)..but hey the price was right
FREE!!