Amiga.org
Amiga.org specific forums => New User Introductions => Topic started by: thedaemon on August 19, 2006, 09:31:38 PM
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Greetings. I am pretty much completely new to Amiga. I was born in 83, so I didn't really have a choice nor an opinion when we got our first computer. We picked up an old pc 486/33 with 4mb ram. I remember trying to get windows 3.1 to display 256color with no luck at all. From that day forward I have always strived to get more color and resolution from my computers. (1920x1200 32bit now :) ) But, as of lately I have been diving into programming and have had an inclination to get an old computer, when things were much simpler and fun. A few years ago I heard about amiga's and didn't think much of it besides the lovely 0s4 screenshots. I decided a few weeks ago to research them. Now I think I am going to be addicted. Why did no one ever tell me about these lovely machines? I have been racking my brain over which model to get. I assume a 1200 will do me fine. I am not sure what kind of monitor though, as this stuff is perplexing. I am planning on mainly doing graphic work (2d/3d) and programming games and apps. I purchased amiga forever because I am eagerly awaiting getting an amiga, and wanted to try to learn how to use it. Needless to say its a bit confusing on how to install apps on it. I assume it will be easier once I get a real amiga. Anyways, I will try not to bother you guys with silly beginner questions(I will use the search function), and I hope to learn many things from you. Maybe I will convert off of my pc system. Thanks for being a great crowd to join.
BTW Any usergroups close to Alabama? It seems the Atlanta user group's site is down.
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Welcome!
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Hi and welcome!
Getting a real Amiga working from ground up may be quite confusing, if you're doing it for the first time. So it probably ain't any easier on real machine.
A1200 is a good choice, but you can consider A4000 if good deal presents itself. Expanding your Amiga is a whole new adventure, so use play around with Amiga Forever, try out other Amiga emulation packages, like AmiKit (http://amikit.amiga.sk/), AIAB (http://aiab.emuunlim.com/) etc.
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Amiga is a wonderfull machine, created and published by Commodore and Escom.
Amiga is something special and thats why its still alive, though it dosent seem so. Amiga is an underestimated computer. It can do lots of things PC and MAC still cant do.
People often remember Amiga as the Guru machine, as AmigaOS dosent have any memprotection or virtualmem. People thinks more and more about getting new, new, new hardware, but what they dont think of, is that the "big" OS`es they use will never be optimized as much as AmigaOS because of what the mass wants.
I lived happy with my Amiga 1200 68030 50MHz 64MB RAM 260MB HD for 5 years from 1994 to 1999. In 1999 I got myself an Amiga 4000 which I upgraded to 060/PPC. It kept alive :) and I used wordprocessor on it, drawn lots of pictures, did videotitling on it and much, much more.
Next to my friends etc, Amiga is something which I have lived for. Its a passion for something that Jay Miner died from, something that Commodore burned "extra" soul into.
Amiga have allways been something special and its just miracle that its not dead. Because its not! Its fully alive, more than ever. People programming stuff for it, users are happy with either AmigaOS, AmigaOS4 or MorphOS. I can never love Windows or MacOSX the way I love Amiga.
Amiga is more than just the keyboard for me. It is the community, the hardware companies that still supports it (Elbox, Individual Computers, Hyperion, Genesi..), the shows and parties etc. Amiga people is so much more grounded people. Yes they are. And you ask why? Because Amiga people have allways gathered. It started with Amiga User Groups in 1985 allready, it spread to diskcopyparties, demoparties and more.
Your welcome to Amiga. If your used to Windows, Linux or OSX then AmigaOS can be confusing. But all in all,.. after a while you will asks yourself. Why havent this brilliant OS got any more attention? Because allmost every company related to Amiga have destroyed its masspublicity. Now Genesi is talking big, but doing nothing. Amiga Inc. is ignoring its users and dosent care etc.
Amiga have allways stand on its own feet and if Genesi or Amiga Inc. dosent do anything, Amiga will continue beeing the" underground machine.
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Well. Regarding installing things on AmigaOS. Well, you can either install stuff by using the installer, or you could just copy the dir to your destination.
AmigaOS is set up as easy it gets. If you have any problems, just ask the community here and you will get responce.
I hope this post wasnt to long, but I really, really wished that there was more people like you. Which really want to understand Amiga. And yes as you wrote .. "Now I think I am going to be addicted. Why did no one ever tell me about these lovely machines?" ... because the world dosent want you to know about Amiga for some reason. Amiga have been hated by most of the companies since it started even in 1985. Commodore didnt do anything to make Amiga big. Adverts were there, but too few.. and when Medhi Ali stepped into Commodore. That made the flame bigger than ever.
Amiga is the magic machine and I hope that you will enjoy using it! Amiga community needs more people like you to the scene. Welcome :)
Regards,
Michal
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what else anyone can add to all these :-)
welcome aboard thedaemon.
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Yep, welcome. Ask as man y questions as you like. Years and years worth of accumulated wisdom available on this site.
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amigacommunity++;
:)
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Wow, thanks alot for all the encouragement. I wasn't expecting so much so fast. :) Such a wonderful community here. I think I have figured out how to install things by using DOpus and copying stuff to folders created in my Work drive. I hope this is the right way. DOpus seems really powerful. At first it looked overly complicated, but in fact it seems overly easy. Well, I will ask will a 1080 suffice? Or should I try to find a multiscan? I am not sure what resolution I will be running. Perhaps 640 or so? Thanks guys for being so kind to me. Also is a 2000 as expandable as the 1200? It seems 1200,3000(rare?), or 4000 would be the way to go.
haha I found this!
Big 29" monitor (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mitsubishi-XC-2930C-29-Multiscan-Monitor-w-case_W0QQitemZ120021413747QQihZ002QQcategoryZ21517QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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A2000 is quite expandable - it lacks AGA, so native graphics ain't that good as with A1200/A4000 and the expansion slots and bus (Zorro II) is slower than in newer big box machines (Zorro III). You can't get PCI-slots to A2000, with those other machines you mentioned it is possible. To see possible expansions and otherwise nice reading check this website:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/
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Welcome to Amiga.org :-)
I'd definitely go the 1200 or 4000 route, these are easier to expand and have the AGA chip-set which is bare minimum for alot of software.
If you can afford the 4000 you won't be disappointed! Simply add a zorro graphics card and enjoy beautiful high resolutions on your Amiga. If your feeling adventurous you could add a mediator PCI expansion board which will allow you to use voodoo graphics card and lots other cheap PCI peripherals. In the mean time check out Amikit the best emulation setup :-)
http://amikit.amiga.sk/
http://www.elbox.com/
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You should really go for an Amiga 1200 or Amiga 4000 with Kickstart 3.1 as minimum!.. Then, if you want to use more modern forms of AmigaOS like OS4 and MorphOS. You should either get a AmigaONE or a PegasosII.
Please,.. dont buy Amiga 2000. It seems so nice, but its OCS and its the second Amiga which came out in 1986.
Amiga 500, Amiga 1000, Amiga 1500, Amiga 2000, Amiga 2500 and Amiga CDTV is OCS
Amiga 500+, Amiga 600, Amiga 3000 and Amiga 3000T is ECS
Amiga 1200, Amiga 4000, Amiga 4000T and Amiga CD32 is AGA
Choose what you want, but go for AGA machines atleast if you want some fun and AGA can also run other OCS and ECS games etc thru WHDload etc.
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Ditto what Akiko said. Another nice benefit of Amigas is they don't really go down in value. This is especially true of the more modern A1200s and A4000s, much more so for Amigas upgraded with PPC accelerators and/or PCI expansion. Not that you'd ever want to sell it! :) I find thats a useful line to use for getting the wife onboard.
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"We picked up an old pc 486/33 with 4mb ram. I remember trying to get windows 3.1 to display 256color with no luck at all."
Welcome to the Amiga world. I can relate to your above statement. I sold my A2000 for $2500 back in 1988 and bought a PC 486DX33 with 1 meg of ram and could run just about NOTHING. Maybe it was because I was trying to get to work like my Amiga. So I returned it and bought an A4000/030 and it is still very much alive.
Once again "WELCOME". :-D
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BTW we LOOOOOOVE beginner questions....sooooooooooo ask away. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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@AmiDelf
Well Said!
Quote:
because the world dosent want you to know about Amiga for some reason. Amiga have been hated by most of the companies since it started even in 1985.
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One reason I think is because many companies that wanted to add 3rd party stuff would not be able to make a Profit on things such as: Gfx cards, Sound cards, Plu and Play cards......etcc..............Why? because Amigas already had nice sound, Gfx and was Plug and Play.........so its more profitable to make an IBM----a machine that does nothing, and make it do stuff it should do out of the box :-)
@thedaemon
Yep! get an A1200 for sure...........unless you have alot of time and want to start from the beginning and get an A500 (that would be ok too)
I suggest you start by installing a Plain Workbench 3.1 only and use it ike that for a while to understand how Workbench works...........................soon you wil realise it is th most "correct" OS in the world that is organized most properly.....................then when you begin to install stukk like: ToolsDaemon (essential) you wil highly appreciate it and configuring it...............its basically a START menu for Amiga...........except its at the top with the rest of the menu's.
Its cool to see dudes like you interested in the Amiga...I think it really displays your realistic honest look on life and that you are intelligent and creative.
The Amiga is Amazing, but its not because it's actually amazing........I think it's Amazing quite simply because of how stupid other machines are.
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Well said well said. couldn't of said it better myself :) i almost cryed there for a bit :)
Myself i'm back to Amiga left the Amiga in 98, i always loved the Amiga started with an Amiga 500 in 89 then moved onto an A3000(which was a nice machine) then Bought a A4000T(ESCOM) which i didn't have for long maybe a year, traded for a PC 333 System, which i'm very sorry i ever did,anwyays i'm back with Amiga with an A4000D 060/64 RAM CV64 GFX CARD,also got my 3000D & A500 back which i gave away :)
Anywayz what i think why Amiga is alive today is "the Amiga Users"
LONG LIVE THE AMIGA! :)
SyperHawk
Nova Scotia
CANADA
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Syperhawk:
I did EXACTLY the same thing. Sold the whole "farm" (A4000T with all the extras) in '01. Used the substantial proceeds from my Amiga sellout and flushed the money into a "state-of-the-art" billblozeXP 1.5 'GIGA-hurts' Dell which is now worth exactly zero, possibly less. It took less than a week before I realized what a horrible mistake I'd made. I rank it in the top two stupidest decisions of my entire life, right up there with selling, for $400 -- beer money; my absolutely mint condition 1964 Vespa with 200 original miles on it. Can you say, STUPID?!! I still have the Dell. It makes a lovely flowerpot in the spring. I have a nice Amiga system now, too. I'm afraid they'll never be a second chance on the Vespa. I had acquired the Vespa from my neighbor for a summer's worth of free grass-cutting and landscaping. His son had bought the bike in 1965, brand new. He rode it one semester, was drafted to serve in Vietnam and was killed in combat shortly after. The bike sat in this guys garage until 1987, the year I 'bought' it. I had it for two months before I deciding that I "needed" money for my first semester of college.
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Again, thanks so much for the encouragement! I will probably stay up all night messing with emulated amiga and browsing ebay for amiga 1200. I see amigakit has base 1200's for a decent price. Perhaps I will order one from them and add on to it when I get more experience and the actual need for one. I am stuck on what kind of monitor I should use.
1)Should I use a VGA monitor and get an adapter, or an old 1840 or whatever they are called :)
2)Also, do I need to buy the Developer CD to begin C programming?
3)I ordered a copy of Brillance 2.0 and I don't have an amiga yet. I also ordered a lot of programming books on ebay. Cheers guys and thanks for having me.
Brandon
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Welcome to the wonderfull world of Amiga which, at times is both frustrating and satisfying.
One addition to the list, as far as what you are looking for, I would mention that the A3000 is the one Amiga that has a VGA connection already built in, so any plain PC monitor will work, along with any of the Amiga specific monitors built. Plus, it has Zorro3 slots, if for some weird reason, you want to use PCI cards. With the rest of the models, using a VGA requires a scandoubler, or a videocard (RTG card), check the hardware site listed at the bottom of the Amiga.org page.
The only "downside" is that the A3000 uses the ECS chipset, so you can't play some of the "newer" games made. So the A1200 is best for that, and the A4000 is the penultimate, if you want to do serious stuff. Graphics, animations, video work, etc.
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(http://www.brandonayers.com/images/amigaice1.gif)
Messing around in DPIV. I miss pixel art. Well guys it looks like I will pick up a 1200 within the next week. I can't wait!
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Hey, Thedaemon
I live in alabama, dont know of any usergroups around that are
still active, Just some guy in huntsville was selling amiga stuff on ebay. I got a few amigas mostly collecting dust in my
closet. I mostly use winuae/amiga forever now, waiting for Os4
If there is any way I can help just ask.
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A 1080 monitor will do just fine. Most software runs in the PAL scan rate used in European televisions so a VGA monitor won't help you much unless you get an expensive scan-doubler.
In order to program an Amiga in C you'll need the Amiga Developer CD if you can find one. Version 2.1 is the latest for the classic Amigas. Beyond that I'd reccommend downloading VBCC (http://sun.hasenbraten.de/vbcc/) as your compiler since it has fewer bugs than Storm C++ version 3 that comes on the Developer CD.
Once you get your A1200, the first upgrade you'll want will be some sort of accelerator card since there is no RAM expansion sockets on the motherboard. If you can find a Blizzard 1230 that will do well. Put about 16+ megabytes of memory on it and you will do well.
Welcome to Amiga.org!
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BTW Any usergroups close to Alabama? It seems the Atlanta user group's site is down.
Most of the folks in the Southeast are huddling around the North Carolina / South Carolina Amiga User's Group (http://www.ncscaug.us/) when their not on amiga.org or amigaworld.net. They probably have most active remaining group in these parts. It's kinda of a loose combination of Alabama, Georgia, Florida and North/South Carolinia. Might be some Tennesse and Virgina in there too. I was/am part of the old Atlanta group. The site still exists at amigaatlanta.com, but I brought the server down to move it to a new machine. Since traffic is very small lately and the last couple of dozen enthusiast lost touch when the old mail server died, I just wasn't in a hurry to bring it back online. It hasn't been updated in a while, but if you'd like to take a look at some of the archived material, send a private mail and I'll fire the server back up. And welcome to Amiga land.
Plaz
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As a fairly longtime Amiga(and everything else) owner and sporadic user let me welcome you to HOBBY computing. The Amiga is a computer that WAS ahead of its competition at various times but poor company management doomed it to a footnote in computer history.Sales were tiny compared to Playstation and other video game unit. Yes 5 million or so Amigas were sold;in contrast to 15 million Commodore 64s and 128s.By the way the C128 is another computer whose potential was never really utilized by most programmers or users. There are still people enjoying those old computers .
Every obsolete computer will still run all the softaware it did before and as well;it just won't run the NEW software as well,if at all.
Keep in mind that IBM compatible computers are in nearly every business,home,school, and government office, and 50 million new units a year is likely the figure.
I just realized that I've recently spent way too much in a bout of nostaglia for Amiga stuff.
I am of the opinion that, unless Amiga OS4 can be licensed and released as an alternate OS for existing IBM-compatibles and Macs, Amiga user are most similar to antique car enthusiastists,steam engine fans, and others.That is,of passing interest as a harmless hobby but sort of "odd".
In its time the Amiga propelled a lot of video which the public enjoyed but neither knew nor cared on which computer ithat video was produced.The classic Amiga Toaster is about to become less relevant with the forced transition to new digital TV standards so the main niche is fading fast.
You may develop fine skill at programming the Am,iga ,and enjoy it. just don't expect the Amiga to become a blip on the radar screen of the real world.
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Welcome!
May I recommend the Amiga 4000D(esktop)? You might find one costing no more than 150 Euros (tops!) with some expansion cards thrown in. This one is expandable with four expansion slots where the A1200 is limited to just one expansion slot (or you could consider towering one that is - a daunting task which has put me off).
On the other hand, A1200 are much more available and offer the same fun with the a/m limitations.
Happy tinkering!
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I live in the USA, and I seriously doubt I could find a 4000 for $160Euros. Ok, guys I picked up a amiga 4000d video toaster with highflyer and monitor. its a 40 processor. I think it's pretty much stock. I will be waiting for it to arrive for me to tell you more.
Here is it on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&item=260020803713&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1)
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Great catch! Just be sure you take the case off of the computer and blow an electric fan on the Video Toaster 4000 card while running it. The fan in the A4000 desktop's power supply is quite weak.
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Congrats :banana:
Make sure the battery hasn't leaked when you recieve the A4000
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:banana: it will be peanut butter jelly time soon enough. I also scored a few programming books off of ebay to get my started. Reading now.
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Hey good choice keep us updated! Will you be keeping it stock? Really has amazing upgrade potential. I'd make my first priority finding a good graphics card like the picassoIV and then upgrade to 3.1 Roms. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=468
Good luck..
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I will be upgrading after I learn how to actually use the system. You have to remember, I am new to Amigas in general. But yes, I will be upgrading to 3.1 rom and video card. They will probably be my first upgrade. Thanks for the suggestion. BTW, any idea on hooking up my wacom to my amiga? I have a usb one, which I doubt will work, but my roommate has a bit older serial model. I could trade him if it would work. Thanks
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Don't plug a serial device into the mouse ports of an Amiga. Amiga mouse ports are a derivative of the old Atari 2600-style game ports and are a totally different pinout and you could fry your complex interface adapter chip that way.
There is a serial mouse driver on the Aminet (http://main.aminet.net/hard/drivr/SerialMouseD.lha) that may work with a serial mouse compatible tablet (plugged into the 18-pin serial port presumably with a 9-pin adapter).
Also, you might have to remove the Video Toaster 4000 card to install a graphics card into the A4000 depending on what graphics card you get. A Video Toaster 4000 is a desktop video editing package which was used for a long time in television studios across the country. You may even have the Video Toaster software installed on the hard drive.
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Welcome! I live in the Birmingham, AL area. Please let me know if I can help you with anything. I've got lots of Amigas, spare parts, software, books, magazines, etc...
My main Amiga right now is an A1200 with an 060 in it. Great machine!!!
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Get yourself Breadbox Ensemble for that 486 and remove that Windoze 3.1. Breadbox Ensemble is a 16 bit GUI that just needs M$-DOS to run on top of. It's actually the latest incarnation of GEOS/New Deal. You can check it out at:
http://www.breadbox.com/ensemble/geocats.asp?category=Ease-of-Use
by thedaemon on 2006/8/19 15:31:38
Greetings. I am pretty much completely new to Amiga. I was born in 83, so I didn't really have a choice nor an opinion when we got our first computer. We picked up an old pc 486/33 with 4mb ram. I remember trying to get windows 3.1 to display 256color with no luck at all. From that day forward I have always strived to get more color and resolution from my computers. (1920x1200 32bit now :) ) But, as of lately I have been diving into programming and have had an inclination to get an old computer, when things were much simpler and fun.
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good choice , the a1200 cute as it is just can't be upgraded without putting it into an ugly tower. the 4000 (with that hiflyer) is very easy to upgrade! enjoy.
Pierre
Yes the 1200 has all kind of upgredes including the ppc boards, but you just can't put a graphics card in there and enjoy a decent resolution... I HATE screen flickering! The toasterscan can help...but it just easy with the 4k.
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USB is a very long shot, but if it behaves like a normal mouse, and you had money to burn, you could put a PCI adaptor in there, put a USB card in that, and use it. Far easier to swap with your roommate ;-) The serial ports on all Amigas are fairly compatible with the standard 25-pin PC serial ports, and anydecent computer shop should have the 9-25 pin adaptors you'd need. I'm sure there are plenty of drivers out there for serial mice and serial graphics tablets, aminet'd bewhere I start looking!
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Rabbi wrote:
Get yourself Breadbox Ensemble for that 486 and remove that Windoze 3.1. Breadbox Ensemble is a 16 bit GUI that just needs M$-DOS to run on top of. It's actually the latest incarnation of GEOS/New Deal. You can check it out at:
http://www.breadbox.com/ensemble/geocats.asp?category=Ease-of-Use
Ah ha!
I used PC-Geos on my Emerson 286/12.5 with 20m hd and 8 m ram, and it was great. Got the demo version for $9.95 in some computer store around 1992. Months ago found/bought several copies of full GEOS for use on older PC but discovered ubuntu linux so GEOS still in the box.
Not many people are going to spend $99.95 on the breadbox to use an old PC when $299 will buy a new computer with lots more ram,hard-drive,modem,networking,colors and latest Windows.In fact,it would be a foolish purchase! This is exactly why PC-GEOS didn't take off 15 yearsago,because then as now,the program cost too much compared to a new bundled system. And the people who are hanging onto old PC computers are likely either too poor or disinterested to know about breadbox or spend the money.
Ensemble is a great piece of software and has been since it was started ,it was originally(still is?) written in machine language so it is fast.
I think if breadbox would/could price it at $29.99 for individuals and maybe $10 a seat for corporations and schools THEN it would really take off. You need to get a critical mas of users .
On a jarring note Amigabasic was originally a Microsoft product :boohoo:
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And for really cheap computers of the IBM-PC and Mac variety try Goodwill,Salvation Army,independent thrift sores,"Trading Post" type classified newspapers and amateur radio "hamfests"."Hams" love the newest electric toys and have been on the leading edge of computing even before gamers.
You ought to find Pentium 2 and 3 for very little ,with 486 free for the taking. Private sellers often don't erase the OS as do the thrift stores and school sellers.
Personal examples of cheap "mainstream" computers from the mentioned sources
HP 550mhz P3 with Win98/hd/128ram $45
p2 generic,no OS $20
iMac 333 hd/128ram /no OS $40
P1 133 laptop free
G3 450 B/W tower hd/mem no OS$20
P1 166 Win 95 $15
Microsoft optical mice $4 each
PS/2 mice 50cents
memory from 25 cents a simm to $12.50 for 256meg sdram.
Plenty of PC/Mac stuff gets thrown away every day,and can be had for the thrifty computer user.
Only old AMIGA hardware holds its dollar value!
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Needless to say its a bit confusing on how to install apps on it.
That is one of the good things about AmigaOS. If there is no install script, then you just drag and drop the files to wherever you want them. If you for example want to install a driver for a device, then you simply just drag and drop the file to the devs drawer.
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thedaemon
Welcome to the community! :)
We actually have an Amiga 4000 Desktop in stock for $300! Great starter item, even comes with manuals!
magnetic
magneticsystems
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Well I am now the proud owner of an Amiga 4000D Highflyer. It came with : Highflyer case, Video Toaster, DPaint 4.5, adpro, propixelXL, quarterback, vga monitor with sync strainer, keyboard, wizard 3 button mouse, all manuals and software. dataflyer scsi board(which is NOT working) 2 scsi drives, ide harddrive, scsi cdrom. it has 16mb fast ram I think. Playing with DPaint :). Now I need to I guess get another scsi controller, or get an ide cdrom.
Board:
Rev C, 40cpu rev 3.0 rom 3.0 ks 39.106 wb 39.29
I need help with a few things. main thing, it has a startup script that "i think" looks for the scsi drives which are not hooked up. How do I edit this script?
I am glad to join the club!
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Standard text editors that come with WB are ED, EDIT, MEMACS, & notepad (3.5 and up).
Also, be aware that there is the Startup-Sequence and there is User-Startup, which, when you add programs, get small scripts to assign the programs and do other tasks. The Startup-Sequence, you shouldn't really modify. Check both, just in case.
Otherwise, browse Aminet and see what catches your eye. I can recomend AZ.
IDE CDrom drives are cheeeeap.