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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: McVenco on August 15, 2006, 11:50:19 PM

Title: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: McVenco on August 15, 2006, 11:50:19 PM
Since I'm an absolute n00b when it comes to MIDI and it's possibilities, here a few questions:

I bought a set of A1200s a while back, and it came with a MIDI interface:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=702
Also, I have a guitar amplifier with MIDI possibilities:
http://www.guitarshop.net/hugheskettnermsm1.htm

Question now is: how do I link the amp to the interface to the Amiga, and what can I achieve with it? I'd like to fiddle around with some tracker-like stuff, and record that combined with me playing the guitar. What software do I need for that?

I also have a sampler:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1129
What software can I use with that to sample from CD and can I also use it to sample some of my guitar playing?

Last question: does anyone know a good/cheap source for MIDI-cables? Or can I just buy those in a common computer or music instruments store?
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 16, 2006, 12:52:41 PM
Not sure what the Amp MIDI box does... it's probably just for switching effects/settings via sequencer (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/liverpool/print/1/a/section/e/lines/product_id/12636), very usefull for live work but other than that ...

If you want to record your guitar you can record phrases using a Sample editor (MAKE SURE YOU RECORD TO A CLICK TRACK!)... this can be done using a tracker like OctaMED, then then triger them in the tracker when you want them. I used to work like that and it was something of a nightmare for large projects.

The 8Bit nature of your sampler will tend to make the recordings a little too Lo-Fi for most tastes, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Your best bet would be to get a modern computer, even a cheap PC will do, and then use some nonlinear editing software... I prefer Logic Pro... but you can use an old verion of Cool Edit (Adobe Audition as it's now known). anything will sound much better and be much easier than what can can do with the Amiga now :-(

Any cheap crappy MIDI cable will do... The MIDI harware spec has all but died out in the Pro scene... MIDI over USB is now the standard.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Jose on August 16, 2006, 05:12:45 PM
If you really want to use the Amiga you can get a decent clockport sound card and use it to record the samples. Much better than any of the older soundblasters so I reckon it's enouph. PC software is more evolved though and allows many effects etc. to be added. But if you don't wanna mess with that and just want to capture live sound a good tracker on the Amiga will do the job. I guess you could also add effects extenally with dedicated hardware wich would be even better...
Not much of an effects box but I'm thinking of buying a Vox ToneLab amp modeler myself. It also includes a digital output:pint:

Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 16, 2006, 07:37:46 PM
Quote

Jose wrote:
If you really want to use the Amiga you can get a decent clockport sound card and use it to record the samples. Much better than any of the older soundblasters so I reckon it's enouph.


For the money you'd spend, is it really worth it?

Quote

 PC software is more evolved though and allows many effects etc. to be added. But if you don't wanna mess with that and just want to capture live sound a good tracker on the Amiga will do the job. I guess you could also add effects extenally with dedicated hardware wich would be even better...
Not much of an effects box but I'm thinking of buying a Vox ToneLab amp modeler myself. It also includes a digital output:pint:



Hmmm...
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Wilse on August 16, 2006, 08:31:02 PM
Quote

McVenco wrote:
Since I'm an absolute n00b when it comes to MIDI and it's possibilities, here a few questions:

I bought a set of A1200s a while back, and it came with a MIDI interface:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=702
Also, I have a guitar amplifier with MIDI possibilities:
http://www.guitarshop.net/hugheskettnermsm1.htm

Question now is: how do I link the amp to the interface to the Amiga,


You need a MIDI cable or two, which you'll pick up in any decent music shop. MIDI I/F connects to A1200 parallel port. MIDI out of I/F connects to in of Amp and vice-versa.

Quote
and what can I achieve with it?


Good question. I've no idea what you'd want to control on a guitar amp with MIDI. You'd be better connecting a sound module or MIDI keyboard in my opinion.

Quote
I'd like to fiddle around with some tracker-like stuff, and record that combined with me playing the guitar. What software do I need for that?


I use OctaMED SoundStudio. It's a decent tracker with MIDI capabilities.

Quote

I also have a sampler:
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1129
What software can I use with that to sample from CD and can I also use it to sample some of my guitar playing?


It'll be 8-Bit. That said, I used an 8-Bit sampler for years and the results still sound surprisingly good. as long as you get a good input signal and don't alter the pitch of the resulting samples too much I imagine you'll be pleasantly surprised at their quality.

Quote
Last question: does anyone know a good/cheap source for MIDI-cables? Or can I just buy those in a common computer or music instruments store?


Yup.

Have fun!

Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: billchase on August 16, 2006, 09:48:18 PM
Quote
You need a MIDI cable or two, which you'll pick up in any decent music shop. MIDI I/F connects to A1200 parallel port. MIDI out of I/F connects to in of Amp and vice-versa.


The MIDI interface connects to the serial port, not the parallel.
The sampler connects to the parallel port. Download Bars&Pipes
Professional.  It is a wonderful sequencer that is a free download.
I believe you will have a lot of fun with it.  Many electronic stores
carry MIDI cables (might just be labeled Din-5 cable) if your local
music shop does not.

C Snyder

http://www.alfred-j-faust.de/indexeng.html
http://fromwithin.com/liquidmidi/whatis.html
 
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Wilse on August 16, 2006, 11:33:45 PM
Quote
The MIDI interface connects to the serial port, not the parallel.


Of course it does - thank you for pointing out that, aherm, "deliberate" mistake. ;-)

I agree Bars & Pipes is fantastic but without some midi gear (I'm not expecting him to get much in the way of midi sounds out of that guitar amp) it's pretty useless.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: billchase on August 17, 2006, 12:57:25 AM
Your right, he won't get many sounds from the Amp, but just
the ability to use the guitar as an input device IMO is the
really cool part.  Once he lays down a few MIDI tracks, he
can always add better tone banks and generators later.

C Snyder
 
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Oliver on August 17, 2006, 02:10:57 AM
Quote

billchase wrote:
...the ability to use the guitar as an input device IMO is the really cool part...
 


The Guitar can provide sound input, but I'm pretty sure it can't provide midi input (not without some major hacking).  The midi interface on the amp is in/thru only.  I expect the midi capabilities will be limited to controlling the amp (gain, eq, ???).
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 17, 2006, 07:42:14 AM
Quote

Oliver wrote:
Quote

billchase wrote:
...the ability to use the guitar as an input device IMO is the really cool part...
 


The Guitar can provide sound input, but I'm pretty sure it can't provide midi input (not without some major hacking).  The midi interface on the amp is in/thru only.  I expect the midi capabilities will be limited to controlling the amp (gain, eq, ???).


Exactly, from the link I provided in my post (does no one read my posts any more? :lol:)... the MIDI unit on the amp seems to be nothing more than an easy way to store amp settings and recall them via a sequencer allowing a guitarist to play through a song/set without needing to manually change the amp/effects settings at different points in the song/set.


If you want to get Actually MIDI data out of a guitar then there are plenty of Audio to MIDI converter programs that can be freely downloaded for the PC, though most of them get confused with bends... There are a few boxes you can buy that do this, and have no problem with bends, but I've only used one once... I won't bother again.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Nibble on August 17, 2006, 06:43:48 PM
Hi, this is my first post here. Please don`t flame me since English is not my native language and I will probably make a lot of mistakes.  :-D

I have a question: MIDI interfaces always bring to my mind FM chips (where there is no necessary relation). Ok, Amiga sound is great, but does anybody know of a project using Yamaha FM YM262 to attach to the Miggy? I think about playing MID files while running other stuff - GMPlay is great but uses all my poor 020 CPU to mix the samples.

Another question: I scavenged a full 68040 from a friend`s old Mac, is it possible to built an accelerator board at home? Looking at the Blizz 060 of my friend, it doesn`t seem too hard. Is there any schematics/layout on the web?

   Sorry for the lot of questions. Typical newbie behaviour :crazy:


             Best,

                  Nibble  
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 17, 2006, 08:10:26 PM
Quote

Nibble wrote:
Hi, this is my first post here. Please don`t flame me since English is not my native language and I will probably make a lot of mistakes.  :-D


No mistakes detected.

Quote

I have a question: MIDI interfaces always bring to my mind FM chips (where there is no necessary relation). Ok, Amiga sound is great, but does anybody know of a project using Yamaha FM YM262 to attach to the Miggy? I think about playing MID files while running other stuff - GMPlay is great but uses all my poor 020 CPU to mix the samples.


Nope. Attaching a dodgy FM synth chip has limited appeal to users of Sample capable chips.

Quote

Another question: I scavenged a full 68040 from a friend`s old Mac, is it possible to built an accelerator board at home?


No.

Quote

Looking at the Blizz 060 of my friend, it doesn`t seem too hard. Is there any schematics/layout on the web?
   


No, but if you are into electronics the pinouts of both the A1200's trapdoor and the 040 exist. Remember that you will not only need glue logic between the Amiga and the CPU, but also some RAM controler as the 040 won't be any good without it's own RAM.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: motorollin on August 17, 2006, 08:42:34 PM
Quote
Oliver wrote:
The Guitar can provide sound input, but I'm pretty sure it can't provide midi input (not without some major hacking).  The midi interface on the amp is in/thru only.  I expect the midi capabilities will be limited to controlling the amp (gain, eq, ???).

Actually, you can get guitar amps which translate the notes you play on the guitar to midi data. So you can use the guitar as a midi controller.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2006, 12:56:11 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Quote
Oliver wrote:
The Guitar can provide sound input, but I'm pretty sure it can't provide midi input (not without some major hacking).  The midi interface on the amp is in/thru only.  I expect the midi capabilities will be limited to controlling the amp (gain, eq, ???).

Actually, you can get guitar amps which translate the notes you play on the guitar to midi data. So you can use the guitar as a midi controller.

--
moto


Yes, but if you (or anyone in this thread!) had followed the link in my first post, you would see that this MIDI Amp does not do this.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Angus on August 18, 2006, 02:46:46 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Actually, you can get guitar amps which translate the notes you play on the guitar to midi data. So you can use the guitar as a midi controller.



Can I just jump in and ask a question here?

What does the above actually mean? I play guitar and used to put together little Protracker backing tracks that I could solo over, but I'm not clear on what the implications of me having access to midi are or sequencing.

What would using my guitar as a midi controller enable me to do, and is Bars & Pipes involved?

Any chance of a quick explanation for the hard of thinking?  :-)
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Jose on August 18, 2006, 03:06:40 PM
@Bloodline

"For the money you'd spend, is it really worth it?"

Honestly ? Depends. For me it's a big yes, mostly because I like/need to have something to record riffs etc in a fast way. Just imagine you wake up in the middle of the night with a cool riff idea and you want to record it as fast as possible and go back to bed or other similar situation (this happends a lot:)) You won't wanna wait till Windows boots up the lauches the application to record it. Just fire up your Amiga and it's ready in 10 seconds:)
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Colani1200 on August 18, 2006, 03:07:57 PM
[/quote]
What would using my guitar as a midi controller enable me to do, and is Bars & Pipes involved?
[/quote]

For example you could record the MIDI data of what you're playing (i.e. the notes, length, velocity and the like) to your favourite MIDI sequencer software (including Bars & Pipes). You can edit it, have another MIDI capable instrument (e.g. a synth) playback the melody and so on. The long explanation -as usual- can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midi  ;-)
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 18, 2006, 06:21:59 PM
Quote

Jose wrote:
@Bloodline

"For the money you'd spend, is it really worth it?"

Honestly ? Depends. For me it's a big yes, mostly because I like/need to have something to record riffs etc in a fast way. Just imagine you wake up in the middle of the night with a cool riff idea and you want to record it as fast as possible and go back to bed or other similar situation (this happends a lot:)) You won't wanna wait till Windows boots up the lauches the application to record it. Just fire up your Amiga and it's ready in 10 seconds:)


Yeah, happens all the time... just buy a Mac instead! :-)
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: billchase on August 18, 2006, 07:17:53 PM
Quote

The Guitar can provide sound input, but I'm pretty sure it can't provide midi input (not without some major hacking).  The midi interface on the amp is in/thru only.  I expect the midi capabilities will be limited to controlling the amp (gain, eq, ???).


Thank you for the correction.  I didn't pay close enough attention
to the pic of the midi box.  Now to answer the original question
of what you can achieve with it using an Amiga, that mainly depends
on the features and capabitilies of the amp it is made for.  Sequencers
like Bars&Pipes can still be used for this application, the difference
being its outputing specific control data vs "music" data to manipulate
the amp.

C Snyder
 
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: McVenco on August 19, 2006, 02:04:53 PM
Wow, thanks for all the replies (I didn't suspect this much!)

I'll give things a try and see what will happen. As far as I've found out on Usenet, searching for "ATTAX 100 MIDI" (my guitar amp), I learned that indeed there is not much to control via the MIDI-output on the amp, apart from switching between the 3 different channels on the amp itself.

About quality of sound: I wasn't planning to make professional music, just making some nice sounds for fun and maybe for friends to listen. Plus, I like the somewhat "lo-fi" sound you get with 8-bit audio (I still play a lot of Mod-files every now and then on my PC).

Maybe I'll put up some soundfiles on a server when I succesfully have recorded some, but that could take months.


Does anyone know if it's possible to play the combined Amiga+guitar sound through my amp's speaker, or does the sound go through the Amiga sound output?

Cheers,
McVenco
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 19, 2006, 04:41:49 PM
Quote

McVenco wrote:

About quality of sound: I wasn't planning to make professional music, just making some nice sounds for fun and maybe for friends to listen. Plus, I like the somewhat "lo-fi" sound you get with 8-bit audio (I still play a lot of Mod-files every now and then on my PC).


Yes, lord knows I stick bit crushers on pretty much everything now... but just remember that unlike a bit crushing a hi-res sample, you can't any get better than 8bit with the Amiga.

Quote

Maybe I'll put up some soundfiles on a server when I succesfully have recorded some, but that could take months.


That would be cool to hear!

Quote

Does anyone know if it's possible to play the combined Amiga+guitar sound through my amp's speaker, or does the sound go through the Amiga sound output?


Not without a mixer.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: Jose on August 26, 2006, 02:03:06 AM
@bloodline
"Yeah, happens all the time... just buy a Mac instead!"

Hmm, what's the Mac booting time these days ?
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: bloodline on August 26, 2006, 03:05:33 AM
Quote

Jose wrote:
@bloodline
"Yeah, happens all the time... just buy a Mac instead!"

Hmm, what's the Mac booting time these days ?


My MacBook Pro gets from power on to desktop in 33 seconds... not quite the 17seconds my Amiga could do... but better than the 2mins my WinXP machine crawls through a boot up.
Title: Re: Amiga - MIDI - guitar
Post by: McVenco on August 27, 2006, 02:55:23 PM
Quote
bloodline wrote:

Quote

Maybe I'll put up some soundfiles on a server when I succesfully have recorded some, but that could take months.


That would be cool to hear!


I'll definitely keep you guys posted. Don't expect anything soon though! :-)

Quote

Quote

Does anyone know if it's possible to play the combined Amiga+guitar sound through my amp's speaker, or does the sound go through the Amiga sound output?


Not without a mixer.


Then I'll buy me one of those. My amp's MIDI module is already on the dutch equivalent of Ebay (www.marktplaats.nl) so I'll use the money I get for that to buy a mixer.

I also discovered FL Studio for windows today, which I might use as well for recording some stuff. But the miggy will get to do the most part in the digital music making of course!  :lol: