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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: glitch on August 13, 2006, 08:48:01 PM

Title: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: glitch on August 13, 2006, 08:48:01 PM
Here's another article listing a few of my favourite models:

PCWorld 25 Greatest PCs (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,126692-page,14-c,systems/article.html#)

See what you think!

Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: weirdami on August 13, 2006, 09:26:29 PM
Neat.

They're using "PC" to mean "personal computer", which is odd nowadays because "PC" means "those IBM things", which is lame. I saw an episode of X-Play the other day where they reviewed Lemmings for the PSP and said that it started out as a "PC game". Sheesh and a half.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Damion on August 13, 2006, 09:39:05 PM
Pretty cool, but where's the C64?
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: MarkWatson on August 13, 2006, 10:04:16 PM
The Atari800 (baby Amiga) made it, but not the C64:-)

Mark
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Matt_H on August 13, 2006, 10:37:04 PM
Quote

-D- wrote:
Pretty cool, but where's the C64?

Definitely. The C64 should have been on the list. It holds a Guinness Record, damnit!
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: adolescent on August 13, 2006, 10:41:42 PM
Having an Alienware in there and no C64?  Sounds like they're on the take.  :-D  Also, the Pet deserves some love there also.  
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: dandelion on August 13, 2006, 11:11:43 PM
Whoa. VERY US-centric. Where's the Acorn ARM powered machines? The Speccy? Tsk. I don't know. Went in to PC World for the first time ever today, loathed the god-awful place.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: leirbag28 on August 14, 2006, 12:34:34 AM

All this does is confirm to me once again.......that the so called "Experts"  Don't know what they are talking about and are misinformed................we certainly know that if they Truly were experts..how can they have missed the Commodore 64 and the fact Amiga should have been wayyyy higher on that list?

Im careful to believe any  so called "experts"  perfect example are those "Bible Experts"  from National Geografics, 20/20  CNN and such programs who amazingly know nothing at all about the Bible....never even done enough research, and talk as if they were more educated about it than any Pastor!

If you know what I'm talking about, it's the same in the Computer world.......when we Amigans are watching someone else talking about how much they know about Computer history, and never even used a Commodore64 or an Amiga before..........and often they say "an Omega what?"

the C=64 is top selling computer of all time!  how can one not know?


People just love to follow the flow if the world.........and just trust so called "Experts"

that list is pretty much rubbish!............well...........at least they mentioned the Amiga..............but probably for the sake of appearing to know haha.....I have seen people do that kind of stuff ya know! :-)
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Hyperspeed on August 14, 2006, 02:35:25 AM
Oh, for crying out loud...

The Amiga ranks 7th on the list of 25?

And what is an IBM ThinkPad and Sony Vaio doing in there? Hey, why not put in a photo booth and a cash machine while you're at it!

Just out of curio... does anyone have at hand the sales figures for each Amiga model? I'm curious as to why the C=64 sold 20m+ and the Amiga range only 6m...

:inquisitive:
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: LoadWB on August 14, 2006, 02:45:38 AM
To me, computer rankings should be discriminated against by their originality, ease of use, and so forth.  IMHO, computers which run Windows are all the same.  There's nothing special about a Sony Vaio versus an HP versus a Dell -- commercially they run the same OS, so other than package deals, there is nothing to set them apart.

Criteria should include ground-breaking technology, not the same rehashed crap over again.  The various Ataris, Apples, Commodores, Amigas, Sinclairs, and so forth... these computers brought forth various revolutions.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: justthatgood on August 14, 2006, 02:50:15 AM
Geez, it's just a list.  There is no reason to take all the stuff all seriously.

Yes, it's just a list on a website comprised of data from other people on the internet. I usually take things with a pillar of salt at times.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: LoadWB on August 14, 2006, 04:30:49 AM
Quote
justthatgood wrote:
Geez, it's just a list.  There is no reason to take all the stuff all seriously.


heheh, from the /. blurb:

Quote
Clearly this subjective and arbitrary list is subjective and arbitrary!


:python:
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: TjLaZer on August 14, 2006, 04:47:16 AM
I think what they were trying to do is include the #1 ranking computer of a manufacturer, so the Amiga was Commodore's best  success (as in technilogical breakthroughs, not sales figures!, plus they do mention the Commodore 64 in the Amiga writeup) and the Atari 800 was Atari's (haha ST)  BUT with that said they Apple has more than one nominee ?!?!?

And yes get the damn think pad out of there! WTF!!!
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: odin on August 14, 2006, 10:51:45 AM
These #? of all time lists are so useless and boring. Almost on par with this post.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: rockape on August 14, 2006, 11:06:11 AM
Hi,

Unfortunately this is how History is re-written.

eg: "Quote And the four-voice stereo sound chip (Paula) provided speech synthesis"

thats very wrong, tis Four Channel Stereo not Four Voice :(

Regards, Michael

aka rockape
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: bloodline on August 14, 2006, 01:39:25 PM
The C64 wasn't a revolution... it was an evolution of what came before it.

The Apple Mac, was a revolution in OS design.
The Amiga was an evolution of the Mac's OS (adding features like Multitasking and colour Gfx etc), but it was a revolution in Hardware... True some of the meachines listed didn't really fill this properly... but credit where credit is due!
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: cecilia on August 14, 2006, 02:05:17 PM
I'm shocked they listed the A1000 is as High up as number 7!

even though it should be higher up.

I know that there's were tons of people like me who were completely uninterested in computers because they didn't do anything interesting or creative. It was ONLY after I saw the Amiga that I realized a computer could be used to make ART. It could be used as a Tool to access the parts of human beings that make us unique and special.

if THAT isn't a F%cking REVOLUTIONARY idea, I'll eat my shoes. And, I don't eat shoes.
The Amiga showed the world that a computer is more than hardware. (And, believe me, I saw my friend's Apple at the time and I was Not impressed)
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: mrescher on August 14, 2006, 03:02:16 PM
Quote

And yes get the damn think pad out of there! WTF!!!


Hey hey! The thinkpad is actually a pretty good machine. solid construction, best keyboard you can get on a laptop etc.

The only other laptop brand I'd consider is Apple, but their hardware isn't what it used to be and it was never as good as the IBM.  Or toshiba at a pinch.

Mine's definitely not the flashest model, never was, but it's lightweight and dependable. only machine that's lasted longer is my A500!
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: adonay on August 14, 2006, 03:21:29 PM
And why of all amigas the crappyest one seriously dont understand that if pick a model why not the 500 if the erliest ones the 1000 is beyond me to understand..

Anyways thats only my opinion..
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: bloodline on August 14, 2006, 03:51:56 PM
Quote

mrescher wrote:
Quote

And yes get the damn think pad out of there! WTF!!!


Hey hey! The thinkpad is actually a pretty good machine. solid construction, best keyboard you can get on a laptop etc.


You consider a "pretty good machine" with a great keyboard revolutionary?

Quote

The only other laptop brand I'd consider is Apple, but their hardware isn't what it used to be and it was never as good as the IBM.  Or toshiba at a pinch.


How is Apple's hardware not what it used to be? How is it not as good as IBM or Toshiba?

Quote

Mine's definitely not the flashest model, never was, but it's lightweight and dependable. only machine that's lasted longer is my A500!


Urg...!
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: redrumloa on August 14, 2006, 04:04:17 PM
You guys nailed my complaint perectly. How could a list of the "25 Greates PCs of all time" not include the Commodore 64? That is sad! :angry:
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: maffoo on August 14, 2006, 04:43:28 PM
Quote

adonay wrote:
And why of all amigas the crappyest one seriously dont understand that if pick a model why not the 500 if the erliest ones the 1000 is beyond me to understand..


Probably because it was the first Amiga. The A1000 was revolutionary, the A500 with its lower price just made it accessible to the masses.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: swift240 on August 14, 2006, 05:19:10 PM
Expets eh! what a load of rubbish, I have known experts to be wrong on many occastion.
And yes where is the C64?

If a load of other so called "experts" were called in it would be diferent.

There so called "experts" did they ask me or any of you? for an opinion?  No they did not, so who did they ask?
A hand full? a few more? a couple of hundred? a couple of thousand?
I say its all b****** we all know the C64 should be there (not because I am a fan of the C64) but simply because the C64 is that good.
A few peoples opinions dont make it true or fact, it simply makes it on the day and no other.

So all these experts can go back to there place of greatness and we will wait for them to bestow upon us humble no nothings there next set of opinions and judgements.

And we will all be so gratefull.  And totaly belive in all the say and write.

Mike.   :pissed:  :pissed:  :pissed:
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: cecilia on August 14, 2006, 06:30:58 PM
Quote

adonay wrote:
And why of all amigas the crappyest one seriously dont understand that if pick a model why not the 500 if the erliest ones the 1000 is beyond me to understand..
you must not have had your hands on an Amiga1000. I have. It was a transcendent experience.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Hyperspeed on August 14, 2006, 09:33:45 PM
I feel a tad left out when people talk of the Commodore 64. I had a Sinclair ZX Spectrum +2 128k and found it quite unreliable (maybe the tape head was wonky), but I did love it.

Wasn't the Spectrum more popular than the C=64 in the UK?

I remember being amazed at a friend's C=64 in that it had a keyboard and a cartridge slot just like my Master System. It could also use tapes and disks.

When it comes to 'revolution' though, doesn't this imply the masses? The A500 would have started the momento in the Amiga revolution but the A1000 was 'pioneering'. I don't personally like the idea of 256k RAM and loading Kickstart off floppies but if I had an A1000 in '85 I would have been a happy child.

:-D
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Homer on August 14, 2006, 10:15:23 PM
Hic :pint: Hic !
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: jdiffend on August 14, 2006, 11:01:12 PM
Just another useless list.  Every forum out there has a link to it and everyone is hammering it.
The number of DOS/Windows machines was absurd.


The Apple II was a hack (see the video display hardware if you doubt it) and survived on marketing and being one of the first color machines for the "hobbyist".  It was also one of the first to push disk drives.  Does it deserve a #1?  It wouldn't have even existed if it weren't for the Altair WOZ saw at a users group meeting and personal computers might not have arrived for several years.

Missing computers?

Missing the C64 was pretty stupid.  Lets face it.  The C64 drove the price war that devestated the home PC video game market from '83 to '85 and killed the growing number of 8 bit vendors.

The Tandy Color Computer was the first home PC with a real pre-emptive multi-tasking OS... OS-9.  Not to be confused with Mac OS9.  It was a Unix like OS for an 8 bit when CP/M was thought of as powerful.  Yes, it beat the Amiga by a few years.

The Spectrum which was a big hit in the UK/Europe and almost created the low cost market.  The ZX80/ZX81 were first but didn't last long.  
Commodore actually created the C116/264/Plus 4 just to compete with the low cost Spectrum... at least until management raised the price from $49 for the 116 to $79 for the 264 and finally to $299 for the "business" Plus 4 which turned a likely hit into a flop.

The Acorn RISC systems brought RISC to the desktop for the first time and the CPU created for it is the grand parent of the most popular embedded CPU out there.

The Oric and BBC Micro at least deserve an honerable mention.  I though BBC Micro was the school computer in the UK.

Um... pocket PC's?  Anyone remember those?  The author didn't.  They were the predicessor of the palm computers and the Newton didn't even get a mention either.


And as for giving credit where credit is due, the one thing that made the home computer market possible more than any other... the introduction of the 6502 CPU.  Prior to it other CPU's were hundreds of dollars.  By the end of the computer show it was introduced at every other CPU manufacturer had dropped their prices and a home computer cheaper than a car was possible.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Matt_H on August 15, 2006, 12:30:41 AM
Quote
Um... pocket PC's? Anyone remember those? The author didn't. They were the predicessor of the palm computers and the Newton didn't even get a mention either.

Unfortunate that things like this aren't made any more. I saw a 'real' pocket PC in a store in Canada in 1997. Low-end Pentium, 16MB of RAM, Win95, and a full keyboard (can't remember if it had a numeric pad... probably not). Wouldn't win any awards for technical specifications, but it was smaller than a DVD case.

PocketPCs now are significantly smaller, but they can't run the same programs as your desktop machine!
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: jdiffend on August 15, 2006, 01:19:09 AM
Quote

Matt_H wrote:
Quote
Um... pocket PC's? Anyone remember those? The author didn't. They were the predicessor of the palm computers and the Newton didn't even get a mention either.

Unfortunate that things like this aren't made any more. I saw a 'real' pocket PC in a store in Canada in 1997.
[/quote]
:roll:  PC as in Personal Computer, not IBM PC.  Man I used to hate that when I worked in a computer store.  Somehow the IBM was suddenly a "PC" and nothing else was even though the term had been around for over a decade.

I'm talking the little handheld PC's from the 80s that Radio Shack and a few others had.  Way before what you are talking about.  They were programmable in BASIC or assembly and were about the size of a checkbook.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Hyperspeed on August 15, 2006, 03:16:44 AM
What... like the Atari Portfolio in Terminator 2?

:-D
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: jdiffend on August 15, 2006, 06:09:18 AM
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
What... like the Atari Portfolio in Terminator 2?

:-D

Think 1980.  A Pocket computer when there weren't many desktop computers.
The Portfolio was kinda neat but came 9 years later.

Pocket Computer 1 (http://oldcomputers.net/trs80pc1.html)
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: TjLaZer on August 15, 2006, 06:47:17 AM
Quote
And why of all amigas the crappyest one seriously dont understand that if pick a model why not the 500 if the erliest ones the 1000 is beyond me to understand..


They picked the A1000 because it was revolutionary for it's time (1985) and it was the computer that broke new grounds in Graphics, Sound, Multitasking.  Plus this is the original Amiga, the rest were just minor improvements. ;)
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: justthatgood on August 15, 2006, 10:59:13 AM
@Anyone that actually cares about THIS list's results


Alright I guess it's time to kill this thread. Every once and a while some of you come up with some good threads that start a good discussion, a little bit of debate.

That's all good and all, but sometimes... Sometimes there are a few POINTLESS threads like this that are just blind system advocacy, rabid fanatic rants, and cultist elistist "Holy OS War" chants redux.

 :violin:  
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: r0jaws on August 15, 2006, 11:46:13 AM
@ Matt_H

Do you mean the Toshiba Libretto 50ct?Adorable Libretto Homepage (http://www.silverace.com/libretto/)
I had one with those specs, about the same size as a Video case. It was a dinky little thing, quite handy, managed to get Vextorlinux and Win98 running dual boot, it came with windows 95 but it could run Win2000 with a 32mb ram upgrade.
I also managed to wirelessly network it and get all sorts of useful stuff running on it, I eventually sold it though as it's short battery life really hampered it's useability (using wireless knocked it down to about 30mins!)
A new battery could probably have sorted that out though, the 100ct is much more useful though they sell all the time on eBay.
Not revolutionary by any means just a handy little beastie. :-D
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: SyrTran on August 15, 2006, 11:32:49 PM
@jdiffend

Quote
Um... pocket PC's? Anyone remember those? The author didn't. They were the predicessor of the palm computers and the Newton didn't even get a mention either.

Remember them?!??  Mine's sitting right here!  Still works pretty well, too (except for the fact that the mercury-filled 675s were banned and the zinc-oxide S76s don't last nearly as long).  Got mine sometime in '81.  Had to replace the display about 15 years ago after I dropped it.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: SyrTran on August 15, 2006, 11:38:00 PM
@Matt_H

Quote
Unfortunate that things like this aren't made any more. I saw a 'real' pocket PC in a store in Canada in 1997. Low-end Pentium, 16MB of RAM, Win95, and a full keyboard (can't remember if it had a numeric pad... probably not). Wouldn't win any awards for technical specifications, but it was smaller than a DVD case.
not).

PocketPCs now are significantly smaller, but they can't run the same programs as your desktop machine!


Samsung Q1 (http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/mobilecomputing/ultramobile/np_q1_v000suk.asp)
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: SyrTran on August 15, 2006, 11:50:06 PM
Did any of the complainers read the full story linked on the list page?  They give a bit of reasoning for the computers they picked.  They also give a list of 25 "near-greats."  Unfortunately, PC World is definitely an American-centric magazine, so the BBC Micro isn't on the near-great list, either.

From the full article:
Quote
No single characteristic makes a computer great. But we managed to boil down an array of winning qualities into four factors, all of which happen to begin with the letter I.

Innovation: Did the PC do anything that was genuinely new? Did it incorporate the latest technology?
Impact: Was it widely imitated? Did it become part of the cultural zeitgeist?
Industrial design: Was it a looker? Did it have clever features that made using it a pleasure?
Intangibles: Was there anything else about it that set it apart from the same ol' same ol'?


IMO, the C64 fails the Innovation part.  It was really just a souped-up Vic-20.  OTOH, it definitely had the Impact part down (mostly due to its cost at the time).  I'll bet there's still more professional game programmers that got their start on the C64 than any other machine.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Matt_H on August 16, 2006, 12:56:48 AM
@ r0jaws

I'm not sure if it was that, but it was pretty similar. Thanks for pointing this out!

@ Syrtran

That Q1 looks nifty, but more expensive.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: motrucker on August 17, 2006, 05:18:07 PM
Commodore never gets its due. So often Apple is credited with starting the computer revolution, but they don't think about the PET computer line, OR where Apple bought their CPUs from.
Since Apple bought their great CPU from Commodore (MOS technologies, which CBM owned), How can Apple be "first"?
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: bloodline on August 17, 2006, 08:20:15 PM
Quote

SyrTran wrote:
@Matt_H

Quote
Unfortunate that things like this aren't made any more. I saw a 'real' pocket PC in a store in Canada in 1997. Low-end Pentium, 16MB of RAM, Win95, and a full keyboard (can't remember if it had a numeric pad... probably not). Wouldn't win any awards for technical specifications, but it was smaller than a DVD case.
not).

PocketPCs now are significantly smaller, but they can't run the same programs as your desktop machine!


Samsung Q1 (http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/mobilecomputing/ultramobile/np_q1_v000suk.asp)


Yet another AROS capable machine... :roll:
:lol:
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: CLS2086 on August 18, 2006, 10:58:34 AM
Hum, very strange list.
It should be named : 25 Greatest innovative Desktop systems of all time.
But why there is an Atari 800 in it (Atari 400 was made before with half ram...)   :-?
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: jdiffend on August 19, 2006, 05:36:25 AM
I like how other computers were treated like separate models but the "Apple II" was all Apple II models lumped into one.
The Actual Apple II didn't sell that long before it was replaced with the II+.  It was around a little longer and then replaced with the IIe which accounted for the majority of the lines sales.
If you separate the models the II was just a blip of sales from all the production runs.
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: chrispb on August 24, 2006, 07:37:50 PM
The Amiga 1000 was the first and it was a truely great machine. It had that keyboard garage and I loved the flexibility of loading kickstart from disk. (it stayed resident and only needed doing on power up). Much cooler looking machine than the 500 too IMHO....

BTW why no PET on the list - both the PET and Apple were shown at CES but the PET actually beat the Apple II to market...Hell it was even shown in Startrek II.... :-D  :-D
Title: Re: 25 Greatest PCs of all time - Yes, Amiga made the list!
Post by: Hyperspeed on September 04, 2006, 01:52:09 AM
Quote
by jdiffend:
Think 1980. A Pocket computer when there weren't many desktop computers.
The Portfolio was kinda neat but came 9 years later.


Just what use could you have for a tiny machine with 1.5k of RAM and a 24 character display?

I thought the Atari Portfolio was basic but these old Radio Shack things take the biscuit!

How did they interface with reality? They're a bit like the moles of the computing world!

:lol: