Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 01:06:34 AM

Title: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 01:06:34 AM
..well, I am quite dissapointed with the "results" I get on my A1240 with SB 128 in Mediator - AmigaAMP just can`t play mp3s properly!!! I thought it would not be a problem for a soundacrd correctly installed in system! Btw my Amiga doesnt want to boot just now for unknown reason.. great, it sux all..
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: dillinger on August 13, 2006, 02:21:24 AM
would help if you explained your problem a little better. "just can`t play mp3s properly!!!" doesn't tell us much. Is the sound quality low and grainy? Skipping and jittering?

If .mp3s play but quality is low then run sys:prefs/ahi (AHI prefs prog) and try increasing the card's frequency setting. default is usually quite low, so just whack it up fully (around 48KHz, i think). see if that helps.

if the quality is ok but you have pauses and skips try increasing the buffer settings in AmigaAMP.

Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: god64 on August 13, 2006, 09:16:24 AM
also check the mixer, i have installed a terratec recently and have to move the mixer volume sliders after each reboot to get sound (not noly master, there is a dropdown where you can adjust volume for each output)

than try AmiAMP instead of AmigaAMP (this are two different programs, you can get AmiAMP on aminet), AmiAMP works much better for me than AmigaAMP
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 10:31:20 AM
Quote

dillinger wrote:
would help if you explained your problem a little better. "just can`t play mp3s properly!!!" doesn't tell us much. Is the sound quality low and grainy? Skipping and jittering?

If .mp3s play but quality is low then run sys:prefs/ahi (AHI prefs prog) and try increasing the card's frequency setting. default is usually quite low, so just whack it up fully (around 48KHz, i think). see if that helps.

if the quality is ok but you have pauses and skips try increasing the buffer settings in AmigaAMP.



..thanx, ok, I experience pauses and skipping while playing a song, changing buffer doesn`t seem to help as the best results I get with 64 KB or 32.. I thought, that playing mp3s with a soundcard is not so CPU time consuming! I almost got better results playing mp3s through Paula years ago.. IMO it is the mpega.library problem.. is there any other possibility or should I try a newer version?

Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: lempkee on August 13, 2006, 10:39:01 AM
a soundcard use more resources than our little sound chip and also.. AHI is most of the reason why u are having problems.

Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Karlos on August 13, 2006, 10:58:37 AM
Quote

I thought, that playing mp3s with a soundcard is not so CPU time consuming! I almost got better results playing mp3s through Paula years ago..


I guess you thought wrong, then. All the soundcard does for you is to give you a better DAC. It *might* even accelerate some mixing stuff, depending on the driver and hardware.

One problem you might have is AHI. This can take some configuring for optimal performance. Its probably old news, but every version I tried after 4.12 (basically any AHI v5 revision I tested) sucked the life out of my CPU, no matter what I did with the settings - and that was just using paula for output.

I would hope that current versions are somewhat better in that regard, I've not updated it as I don't have a soundcard.

Quote

IMO it is the mpega.library problem.. is there any other possibility or should I try a newer version?


This could also be part of your problem. Frankly mp3 decoding can be heavy work for a 680x0. There were integer versions of this library that are supposed to be a lot faster if you don't have a 68060.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Legerdemain on August 13, 2006, 11:20:08 AM
My experience tells me, however, that you can not play MP3s in full quality on a 68040... I might be wrong here, but I haven't managed at least (and I do not think that my friends with 040 have managed either). Either way, playing MP3s on your 040 will most likely drain so much system resources that the OS will be more or less unusable.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: motorollin on August 13, 2006, 11:24:50 AM
A Soundblaster won't assist the 040 with decoding of MP3s. The CPU will still be doing all of the work. If you want to play MP3s without using all of your CPU, then you will have to get a clockport sound card like Delphina or a parallel port MP3 decoder (MASPlayer).

--
moto
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Seiya on August 13, 2006, 11:51:02 AM
Quote

MASACREWILL wrote:
..well, I am quite dissapointed with the "results" I get on my A1240 with SB 128 in Mediator - AmigaAMP just can`t play mp3s properly!!! I thought it would not be a problem for a soundacrd correctly installed in system! Btw my Amiga doesnt want to boot just now for unknown reason.. great, it sux all..


68040 can play mp3 only in 44khz in mono with 80% of cpu load. :(
Or 22,5 khz in stereo but always with 80% of cpu load..

I alwasy told, is not a limit of 040 power, but bad optimization of mpega.library :(
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Seiya on August 13, 2006, 11:59:26 AM
Quote

This could also be part of your problem. Frankly mp3 decoding can be heavy work for a 680x0. There were integer versions of this library that are supposed to be a lot faster if you don't have a 68060.


on every version of mpega.library (fpu or integer) mp3 in high quality cannot be played with 68040 :(

it can play at high quality only in mono...

On Amiga howerver you can install Delfina audio card, its DSP processor can play mp3 with no cpu load :)
With Soundblaster 128 we can get the best output quality.


Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: CLS2086 on August 13, 2006, 12:01:25 PM
The 040 lack of FPU power to decode on the fly MP3 stream... and if you use AHI you reduce its power too...
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: swift240 on August 13, 2006, 12:13:15 PM
Something is wrong with what you have for sure.
As when I run Amp or AmigaAmp or even Songplayer latest version, I play MP3's with no problem.
I run a 1200 with Mediator SX, SB128 and Apollo Turbo at 40Mhz with 32 meg Fast ram.
AHI is setup correct.
I hope you get it up and running soon, as with your setup it should run MP3 with no real problem
If i can do it on my setup up, you should do it on yours.

Mike.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: lurkist on August 13, 2006, 12:52:26 PM
This can depend on the 040 in question.  A 25 Mhz will most likely fail, a 40 (like the original poster's) should be fine (but don't expect to multitask).  Use mpega and Paula if the SB is too CPU intensive.  And I do mean mpega the program, not just mpega.library.  Don't bother with overblown packages like Amplifier etc which use AHI.

Cheers
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Tahoe on August 13, 2006, 01:02:26 PM
Sorry, bit of a newbie on the Audio front...
But... Is it possible to use the Delfina as a co-pro for decoding it while the output runs through the Soundblaster?

This would give the best of both worlds....
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Framiga on August 13, 2006, 01:07:00 PM
indeed! the 040@40 Mhz is the bare minimum for MP3 at full quality even if you'l get an expensive MP3 player box only then ;-)

IIRC (when i had a 040@28Mhz) i used the original plain 2.4 mpega.library and Paula (with 14bit driver/calibration). OR when i got the Repulse card, AHI 4.180 because it is the ligher(?) available.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: amiga_3k on August 13, 2006, 01:13:27 PM
On the old A3000D I had (with Commodore's 040/25 accelerator) I used to first copy the MP3 to the RAM disk then run MPEGA to play them over Paula. It went quite well on 96kBit MPEG3s. I also had to increase its buffer-settings to fully load the MP3 into the buffer. I was never fond on using the Amiga clones of Winamp as they seem to suck up all the CPU power for their GUI's.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: jj on August 13, 2006, 01:23:19 PM
are there PPC verions of the mpega library and could I expect to be able to play MP3's at full quality through paula or does the old context switching rear its ugly head?
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Karlos on August 13, 2006, 01:30:21 PM
Quote

JJ wrote:
are there PPC verions of the mpega library and could I expect to be able to play MP3's at full quality through paula or does the old context switching rear its ugly head?


Yes there are. And you only get context switches for each chunk thats loaded, decoded and fed to ahi, which if you use anything more than 64KB is never an issue in my experience.

I find playing 44kHz mp3 via ppc on 3.x no problem. AHI was almost always the bottleneck (until I dropped back to v4)
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 05:43:19 PM
..hi there, thank You all for explanation, well, it seems that I am going to have another free PCI slot, becouse there is no need for me to use SB128 then anymore.. :angry: :lol: ..btw TV Card went off last week as I have TV-Tuner in LCD now (but I don`t use it anyway).. :-P ..ok, then I go back to Paula 14 bit output and will use just MpegaGUI for mp3.. (maybe..) thanks anyway
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 09:37:31 PM
Quote

swift240 wrote:
Something is wrong with what you have for sure.
As when I run Amp or AmigaAmp or even Songplayer latest version, I play MP3's with no problem.
I run a 1200 with Mediator SX, SB128 and Apollo Turbo at 40Mhz with 32 meg Fast ram.
AHI is setup correct.
I hope you get it up and running soon, as with your setup it should run MP3 with no real problem
If i can do it on my setup up, you should do it on yours.

Mike.


..If only I could get an idea WHAT is wrong in my system..  :-(
..AHI is set correctly (IMHO), I have chosen SB128 HiFi 16 bit stero ++ modes, but I think that bottleneck in my system  (beside the CPU) is 4xEIDE disk controller.. simply IDE consumes so much CPU power..
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Piru on August 13, 2006, 11:17:30 PM
@MASACREWILL
Quote
I think that bottleneck in my system (beside the CPU) is 4xEIDE disk controller.. simply IDE consumes so much CPU power..

Actually, reading the compressed data (mp3) off the disk takes less time than transferring the decoded sampledata (stereo 16bit) over Mediator. A1200 Mediator has no DMA to amiga system memory, it's all CPU poking and peeking.

However, in this case the obviously most time consuming part is the mp3 decoding. SB128 can't speed that up.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Karlos on August 13, 2006, 11:22:01 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:

A1200 Mediator has no DMA to amiga system memory, it's all CPU poking and peeking.



Cue the resident elbox fanboy ;-)
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 11:26:49 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
@MASACREWILL
Quote
I think that bottleneck in my system (beside the CPU) is 4xEIDE disk controller.. simply IDE consumes so much CPU power..

Actually, reading the compressed data (mp3) off the disk takes less time than transferring the decoded sampledata (stereo 16bit) over Mediator. A1200 Mediator has no DMA to amiga system memory, it's all CPU poking and peeking.

However, in this case the obviously most time consuming part is the mp3 decoding. SB128 can't speed that up.


..I must agree. 060 would make significant difference? I guess so.. but mp3 playing is not my priority in Amiga usage.. (well, I don`t know what is it actually, as I just watch demos and play around with workbench when I get some time)  
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Piru on August 13, 2006, 11:31:19 PM
060 would allow you to listen to most mp3s, but still it would suck considerable portion of the CPU time and it would still be easy to get hickups and gaps by just doing something CPU intensive.

I prefer to use G4 @ 1GHz, mp3s take couple of percent CPU time there... plus I can watch all my movies with it.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Framiga on August 13, 2006, 11:35:05 PM
Quote
.If only I could get an idea WHAT is wrong in my system..
..AHI is set correctly (IMHO), I have chosen SB128 HiFi 16 bit stero ++ modes, but I think that bottleneck in my system (beside the CPU) is 4xEIDE disk controller.. simply IDE consumes so much CPU power..

theres nothing wrong with your 040 system!

swift240 was speaking about his Apollo 1240 at 40Mhz... its all another matter with a 040@40Mhz!

You can only play MP3 at 22050 using an original mpega.library 2.4, AHI 4.180 and mpega or an old version of SongPlayer (the latest is more heavy)

Ah... if you use SongPlayer, set a large buffer and DON'T enable the tones (or leave it at 0)

and install asyncio.library, then enable it in SonPlayer prefs.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 11:39:01 PM
..well, this discussion is quite pointless for me now as I use 3100+ Athlon64 PC on everyday basis for everything needed.. SB 128 will go off my Amiga in the weekend, so there will be some more fresh air again ;-)

btw what OS do You use with that G4?
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 13, 2006, 11:43:07 PM

Quote

Framiga wrote:

theres nothing wrong with your 040 system!

swift240 was speaking about his Apollo 1240 at 40Mhz... its all another matter with a 040@40Mhz!



..why it is all another matter when I have got Blizzard 1240 at 40 MHz??
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Piru on August 13, 2006, 11:49:16 PM
@MASACREWILL
Quote
what OS do You use with that G4?

MorphOS, Mac OS X and Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23429).
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Framiga on August 13, 2006, 11:53:05 PM
@MASACREWILL

i didn't noticed you have a 40 Mhz CPU.

Anyway follow what i wrote about software.

Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 14, 2006, 12:03:54 AM
..very interesting, very! If I wasn`t quite satisfied with my PC system, than maybe, maybe.. ;-)
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 14, 2006, 12:05:07 AM
Quote

Framiga wrote:
@MASACREWILL

i didn't noticed you have a 40 Mhz CPU.

Anyway follow what i wrote about software.



..yes Sir.. ;-) thanks
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Piru on August 14, 2006, 12:05:29 AM
I'm not quite happy with my PC, generating more heat/noise than the two Pegs combined. I should underclock/downgrade it or something.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 14, 2006, 12:13:50 AM
..err, mine too, but its overclocked (233*9) and I play games quite often, so it has a right to be a heater ;-) Anyway I use some of those Zalmans big copper CPU coolers, so it is not so noisy actually.. but nothing beats a good water cooling anyway.. (thats another story..)

..who actually sells Pegasoses?  :-D
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Piru on August 14, 2006, 01:05:35 AM
@MASACREWILL
Quote
who actually sells Pegasoses?

Mostly amiga dealers, for example Vesalia (http://www.vesalia.de) and GGS Data (http://www.ggsdata.se/index-en.html).

Anyway, you might want to check The Pegasos Book (http://thepegasosbook.wikipeg.org/), it has tons of information about the system and what's possible with it.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 14, 2006, 01:52:29 AM
..thanx, I also found Czech Pegasos User Group at pegasos.jinak.cz..
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 14, 2006, 01:56:52 PM
..and what about choosing Warp 3D decoder in the Amiga Amp instead of mpega.library? Would this help? (I can`t try it untill thursday..) :roll:
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Piru on August 14, 2006, 02:02:52 PM
@MASACREWILL
Quote
what about choosing Warp 3D decoder in the Amiga Amp instead of mpega.library?

There is no Warp3D decoder in AmigaAMP. There is WarpUP one though. Warp3D != WarpUP.
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: MASACREWILL on August 14, 2006, 02:06:42 PM
..well it is the same thing.. or is not? :-? Or is WarpUP just a PPC thingie? Ahh, I see..
Title: Re: I thought that SB128 and 040 can play mp3s!!!
Post by: Seiya on August 14, 2006, 10:58:39 PM
Quote

Piru wrote:
I'm not quite happy with my PC, generating more heat/noise than the two Pegs combined. I should underclock/downgrade it or something.


All people that use A1 or Peg have always some problems with their PC  :-P