Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Wilse on May 09, 2003, 05:27:14 PM
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I just got this e-mail:
> Your Pegasos is on his way.
Ya beauty!
This weekend looks even sweeter than most. :pint:
Chix on Dex tonight - all female DJ's - nice.
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Well sure jusy lord it over us why don't ya? :-D
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T_Bone wrote:
Well sure jusy lord it over us why don't ya? :-D
:lol: Sorry. I'm not normally one to gloat but:
It's Friday
I'm going clubbing
My Pegasos is on the way
AOS4 looks to be a bit nearer.
Life is sweet ATM. :-D
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Have a good night out & weekend :-D :pint:
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Hope everyone receives what he desires (those lucky buggers having both... is there such a person yet?) and will be happy with that. :-)
Hope you will love it when you receive - reviews, I want reviews. If you receive OS4 I want another review ofcourse :-)
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Vincent wrote:
Have a good night out & weekend :-D :pint:
Cheers, I'll do my best. :pint:
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I'm using my Pegasos now - and I promise you, it's the fastest, most responsive system I've ever used.
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KennyR wrote:
I'm using my Pegasos now - and I promise you, it's the fastest, most responsive system I've ever used.
Kenny, that is sweet music to my, eh, eyes. :-D
I need to source:
a case
a Hard Drive
Memory
a Sound Card.
Any tips on best types and prices will be greatly appreciated.
And if you can think of anything else I might need/want, let me know.
I already have a Radeon 8500 & plan to use the CD drive from my A1200.
Cheers,
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You don't need a sound card with a Pegasos! 16bit sound support is built in! As is network support.
Memory is a problem. You can't just get it from a PC hardware shop and expect it to work - most wont. I got my DIMM from kdh-datentechnik in Germany - a single 512MB one, PC133 registered buffered CL3, Kingston brand. Works perfectly. See the compatible memory list on MorphZone to pick DIMMS - and to see what ones to avoid.
You'll also need UDMA cables for the hard drive - the 80pin ones. KDH also sell these. You might need one for the CD-ROM too. Don't put the HD and CD-ROM on the same IDE channel or you'll slow the HD down.
Try to keep to PS/2 mouse and keyboard for now, and avoid USB. MOS currently needs PS/2 devices to boot, but this will change in the future.
In fact, I got my whole order from kdh - including the keyboard, which was a mistake on my part because it ended up being a German one! QWERTZ is really quite annoying. ;-)
Edit: A nullmodem cable is also a must-buy, so you can diagnose problems if your Pegasos fails to boot. Which kind depends on the serial port of the machine you want to read debug output on. The Pegasos's serial port is 9 pin male, same as most PCs. An amiga is 25pin male. I have a laplink one that has both sizes on each end.
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@Kenny:
You don't need a sound card with a Pegasos! 16bit sound support is built in! As is network support.
Nice one.See the compatible memory list on MorphZone to pick DIMMS - and to see what ones to avoid.
Will do.
Thanks for the advice.
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what I cant believe is KennyR is now a morphian wowowowowowowow
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My girlfriend has just rang to tell me it's arrived.
I'm itching to get home now. :-x
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My girlfriend has just rang to tell me it's arrived. I'm itching to get home now.
Why? Chances are it'll be sitting in its box in a cupboard until you get the stuff for it anyway.
/me throws a metaphorical bucket of water over Wilse ;-)
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@KennyR:
Why? Chances are it'll be sitting in its box in a cupboard until you get the stuff for it anyway.
Well, I pass PC-Store on my way home and am considering using Peter Plastic on a Case, HD and possibly memory, if they have the correct type. At least that way I can start building it right away.
Is a standard ATX case sufficient?
me throws a metaphorical bucket of water over Wilse
Sploosh! OK, I'm calmer now. :-o
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Is a standard ATX case sufficient?
Yes. Keep in mind your Peg wont boot without a PS/2 keyboard though - the first time, anyway.
If you get a blank screen with everything plugged in, make sure that CPU card is pushed in all the way. The bugger had me panicking for almost a whole day.
If everything is in and you still get a blank screen, your RAM is not accepted (blame Articia).
Unfortunately the only way to definitely see that your RAM is not accepted is serial debug output, which is why the nullmodel cable is a good idea. Blame the x86 init code on GFX cards...
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Oh, and bed down for some serious tinkering. I swore more times in one day than I have in 10 years, even if the end result was fantastic. ;-)
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@KennyR:
Keep in mind your Peg wont boot without a PS/2 keyboard though - the first time, anyway.
I'll use the one on my g/f's PC for now.
Unfortunately the only way to see that your RAM is not accepted is serial debug output, which is why the nullmodel cable is a good idea.
How does it work? I connect the peg's serial port to the PC's and then what? (Excuse my ignorance.)
Oh, and bed down for some serious tinkering. I swore more times in one day than I have in 10 years, even if the end result was fantastic.
I always thought that would be the case. :-)
Hopefully I won't swear too much.
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I'll use the one on my g/f's PC for now.
Be careful. I tried to use my family PC's keyboard and it wasn't detected. Cheap TIME crap. The Peg just stalled in the OF screen.
How does it work? I connect the peg's serial port to the PC's and then what? (Excuse my ignorance.)
Load some kind of serial terminal on the PC. I used AmTerm on the Amiga, I don't know what is available for Windows. Edit: its 115000 baud, no error checking and XON/XOFF handshaking. (Edit: NOTE: make sure machines are OFF before playing with serial cables. The Peg is ATX and isn't really off until you switch it off at the back (or pull out its power cable). This goes for playing with cards, dimms and cpu cards also!)
I always thought that would be the case.
Hopefully I won't swear too much.
Don't get too angry if MOS seems buggy at first - there's a lot you have to do to get it stable. For the first two days that reset button is your friend, so don't get a tower with the crappy little reset button that needs a pen to press. ;-) And DONT just copy all your Amiga files over to the Peg, if you have them.
I also recommend you burn some Amiga apps onto a CD for quick installation on the Peg, including Miami/MiamiDX and samba or an ftp server and client, (Edit: and ARexx commands, libs, and Rexxmast). Miami itself is a pain in the arse to install, since its installer is dumb and makes wild assumptions that fail on MOS. Easier just to copy from a CDRW and make the add the assign manually to user-startup.
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Cheap TIME crap. The Peg just stalled in the OF screen.
:lol: My missus is lower managment at Time head office. Indeed it is all crap. Never a truer word said.
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@KennyR:
I picked up some stuff on my way home:
300W ATX Case;
40gb Maxtor HD;
512meg Twinmos RAM which the shop said I could take back in it doesn't work;
1 UDMA cable.
Be careful. I tried to use my family PC's keyboard and it wasn't detected. Cheap TIME crap.
This one is Packard Bell.
I've fixed the mobo to the case and plugged the power supply into the socket at the top of the board.
Are there any other connections to the mobo?
I've also connected the Radeon 8500, the CPU card and seated the RAM in the first slot from the left 9nearest the cpu). Is this the right slot?
The HD and CD are on the same IDE channel for now as I only have one cable. I've connected them to the right hand channel, nearest the front of the case.
I just tried switching on the power and nothing happened at all, not even the fan in the PSU came on. I know I'm probably missing something obvious but any ideas would be appreciated.
Cheers,
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I just tried switching on the power and nothing happened at all, not even the fan in the PSU came on.
Have you tried plugging the 3-pin plug into the wall and flicking the switch Wilse? ;-)
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mdma wrote:
Have you tried plugging the 3-pin plug into the wall and flicking the switch Wilse? ;-)
:lol: I'm pretty absent-minded but I did try that. :lol:
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I just had a look at a photo on Morphzone and there are obviously some connections to the mobo I haven't made but the picture is too grainy to see exactly what. I'm not sure what the orientation is forconnecting the power switch lead to the mobo. It has two sockets, one connected to a red wire, the other white. The connection point has three pins.
My RAM appears to be in the wrong slot too.
-update- RAM moved to slot nearest front of case.
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I just had a look at a photo on Morphzone and there are obviously some connections to the mobo I haven't made but the picture is too grainy to see exactly what.
My RAM appears to be in the wrong slot too.
Hmmmm.... So I'd be wrong in assuming it's the same process as building a PC then?
Just a thought, is there any voltage settings that you might have missed or something like that?
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@mdma:
So I'd be wrong in assuming it's the same process as building a PC then?
I've no idea. This is first computer I've built. The nearest I've come to this before was towering my A1200.
Just a thought, is there any voltage settings that you might have missed or something like that?
Possibly but nothing I've noticed.
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Fuse?
Normally the PSU fan comes on unless there is:
1. a dead short
2. a blown fuse
3. you didn't switch on at the power
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@DaveP:
Fuse?
No, I tried the same kettle lead on my amiga and it powered up.
1. a dead short
Of the three options you mentioned, this is the only one I can't rule out. What is a dead short and how do I check for one?
Thanks again,
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I've fixed the mobo to the case and plugged the power supply into the socket at the top of the board. Are there any other connections to the mobo?
Yes, you must connect up the on switch to the board, otherwise the PSU won't even come on, because in ATX its the board that tells the PSU to fully power up. But your pegasos is on and dormant - you just can't see it. So be careful when you're hauling out dimms and stuff.
I've also connected the Radeon 8500, the CPU card and seated the RAM in the first slot from the left 9nearest the cpu). Is this the right slot?
It doesn't matter.
I just tried switching on the power and nothing happened at all, not even the fan in the PSU came on. I know I'm probably missing something obvious but any ideas would be appreciated.
Connect that PWRON on the motherboard to the on switch. Then you'll have luck. This is different from PWR-LED. See the sheet of A4 with the schematic that came with your Pegasos - but I can tell you right now its the "bottom" two pins on the connector that's just next to floppy connector. It looks like a connector for a cable but its just for jumpers and leads - that confused me a bit too.
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AFAIR If you have a Radeon 8500 and a fan on it, the first life sign will be the fan on the GFX card starts to spin, regardless that your ram is faulty, the whole mobo got trashed during transfer, whatever. When the mobo is on, the fan spins.
If you have some trouble, for example bogus rams, the debug output will tell you.
Wishing luck! Hope you will succeed. :-)
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@KennyR:
Connect that PWRON on the motherboard to the on switch.
Is that "POWER SW"? (I don't have "PWRON")
See the sheet of A4 with the schematic that came with your Pegasos
I don't seem to have one. I was actually thinking it was odd that there were no instructions. That explains it.
but I can tell you right now its the "bottom" two pins on the connector that's just next to floppy connector.
Should the orange wire go at the bottom or the top?
Cheers,
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Is that "POWER SW"? (I don't have "PWRON")
Yes. Edit: It's marked PWRON on the Pegasos schematic, and POWER SW on the tower cable.
See the sheet of A4 with the schematic that came with your Pegasos
I don't seem to have one. I was actually thinking it was odd that there were no instructions. That explains it.
Thankfully it should be on your MOS CD in pdf form. If you really need it, use a PC to view and print it. In fact, if you need it, you can find it here (http://www.immolation.go.dyndns.org/PegasosSpecs.pdf) on my webspace, in pdf. (I hope I'm not breaking any copyright here).
Should the orange wire go at the bottom or the top?
None of my wires were orange (AFAIR). It depends on the tower. Each of the tower connectors should have a small label on it. This is oriented upward towards the top of the tower case.
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@all
LOL! I can see the advertising campaign now:
"Pegasos, take valium before assembling. Genesi cannot be held responsible for any electric shocks or cardiac arrests that may result of the frustration from assembling this in kit form"
It can only get better. :-?
I wonder how people are getting on with their CommodoreONE mobos ( if any have been sold )...
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The naming convention of the wires depends on the case manufacturers. I remember sitting in front of the wires being puzzled, calling some friends which one can be the Power button. (At me it was SomethingMB or the like? I can't remember, honestly.)
Everyone around me received the schemantics in printed form tho. Maybe your dealer forgot to include it?
EDIT
It's still better than some Amiga cases. When I received my V-Tower for my A1200 the dealer forgot to send me the user guide. When I complained he told me that everything he received was sent to me. One day later they found the user guide though... And they have sent it to me. It was in german... I'll never forget the word "kabel-klampsmitter". :-)
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@KennyR:
It's marked PWRON on the Pegasos schematic, and POWER SW on the tower cable.
OK.
In fact, if you need it, you can find it here on my webspace, in pdf.
Thanks. Things are much clearer now. :-P Each of the tower connectors should have a small label on it. This is oriented upward towards the top of the tower case.
I'll have another go tonight when I get home.
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Be fair Dave, it's a Betatester board. It's pretty easy to actually build the system, it's just that Wilse (and myself when I went to try it) have no experience building ATX systems.
The hard part is still to come - installing MOS is a sinch but I expect Wilse will need my help again when he tries to get it to auto-boot - I'll have to spout some open firmware nonsense.
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It's pretty easy to actually build the system, it's just that Wilse (and myself when I went to try it) have no experience building ATX systems.
Indeed. I'm sure it would've been much more straightforward if I had the schematic.
The hard part is still to come - installing MOS is a sinch but I expect Wilse will need my help again when he tries to get it to auto-boot - I'll have to spout some open firmware nonsense.
Well, probably at least a couple of days away. I still don't know if the RAM will work and there's footy on TV tonight and tomorrow. Add to that my girlfriend has decided she's hogging the PC to learn Spanish, which means I'll have to dig my old monitor out from the very back of the cupboard under the stairs.......I may find myself in front of the goggle-box tonight. :-P
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@KennyR
I didn't mean to cause offence. Sorry if that sounded unfair.
Honestly!
It just seems absurd that whoever sold Wilse the board didn't send easy to understand step by step instructions printed out. What if it was your only system - and you were told that on the CD-Rom there was a PDF you could read ( but you don't have a system on which to read the PDF - catch 22! ).
Pegasos is still not out of Beta, nor is MorphOS despite what some people claim. Its not for the masses and the whole absurdity of how close yet how so far made me laugh out loud. I was getting mental images of Wilse being
electrocuted or getting so frustrated he popped a heart valve.
Now the freeview market has opened up in the UK there is some avenue for an easy to fit Pegasos based STB *this year* to be released. Its going to need to be a lot more developed to get that far.
It reminds me of a review I did of the Power Tower. Very near but VERY far from a finished consumer product.
I don't know if Wilse would have had the same experience with A1 or not - probably would but it bothers me that you say that the hardest part is installing MOS. Jeez. :-(
No review I read so far warned about that!
We are so near to a consumer system dammit!
EDIT: misread "is a sinch(sic)" but the autoboot is hard. Disregard the bit above!
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@Dave
No problem. I'm not offended. ;-)
It just seems absurd that whoever sold Wilse the board didn't send easy to understand step by step instructions printed out.
It was probably just overlooked by accident. I got the schematic and the other people who got this offer also did. He could have mailed or written to Genesi and sent him the schematic, I'm sure. Wilse should check if he has the full package and that nothing else has been overlooked.
Pegasos is still not out of Beta, nor is MorphOS despite what some people claim. Its not for the masses and the whole absurdity of how close yet how so far made me laugh out loud. I was getting mental images of Wilse being
electrocuted or getting so frustrated he popped a heart valve.
Heh. Yes, you are right. MOS and Pegasos are still in beta, MOS more so than the Peg. I expected the worst when I got it and for a while my worst fears seemed to have come true. If not for my friends at #AmigaZeux it probably would have taken me ages to set up. But in the end, almost all of the problems were caused by my negativity - I had really low expectations of MOS, but I was very pleasantly suprised when I got it to run.
Don't let anyone try to tell you MorphOS is perfect - it's not, and has frustrating bugs (edit: and frustrating omissions). Yet at the same time is absolutely amazing the job it's coders have done. It's fully stable, apart from Ambient which I do not like, even though it looks great.
I don't know if Wilse would have had the same experience with A1 or not - probably would but it bothers me that you say that the hardest part is installing MOS. Jeez.
The actual install is easy, once you get that far. It's basically a case of "Copy CD0:#? ALL DH0:". Partition the drive before install is also easy, and even if the partitioning tool (SCSIControl) which comes with MOS isn't my favourite, it is very powerful.
Open firmware is the rub. You have to give it some very obscure commands to tell it to auto-boot MOS, commands that aren't explained and aren't supplied with the board - except as the full open firmware manual, which doesn't help much. This isn't MorphOS's fault, but I'd be happier if Genesi included a quick install guide on paper with Pegasos.
We are so near to a consumer system dammit!
Nearer than ever. It's really within sight now. At long last.
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@Dave:
It just seems absurd that whoever sold Wilse the board didn't send easy to understand step by step instructions printed out.
There's a simple explanation, IMO. My original order, to pegasos-USA, got lost in the system and I still hadn't received my board two weeks after ordering. This didn't strike me as a major problem, bearing in mind I placed my A1 order six months ago and there is still no sign of it.
I made an enquiry to pegasos-USA and received a *very* prompt reply and apology from BBRV, stating that it should have been with me already and they'd rush me out another from Paris. That's just what they did - it arrived in matter of two working days.
So they forgot one piece of paper - I'll live. More important, they remembered the Peg, the cpu card, MOS CD, Feeble Files, Software Tycoon, Tales of Tamar and a T-shirt.I was getting mental images of Wilse being electrocuted
:lol: Not yet, touch wood.
TBH, so far it's been a lot less stressful than towering my Amiga was.I don't know if Wilse would have had the same experience with A1 or not - probably would but it bothers me that you say that the hardest part is installing MOS. Jeez.
Well, my A1 will come with linux, which I'd imagine will give me a lot more grief than MOS. Having said that, my A1 is taking so long, maybe AOS4 will be ready by the time I get it. ;-)
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Did you get the little Pegasos sticker?
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@KennyR:
It was probably just overlooked by accident.
Without a doubt.
I got the schematic and the other people who got this offer also did. He could have mailed or written to Genesi and sent him the schematic,
Well, I didn't know there was one but I've printed off the one on your site, so no matter. :-)
Wilse should check if he has the full package and that nothing else has been overlooked.
What was the whole package? I have to say I'd be surprised if there was anything missing, as the contents of the box are already spanking value for money. Three games, mobo, cpu, MOS and a T-shirt for not a lot of money. I was very impressed, even though I haven't played a game in ages. :-D
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KennyR wrote:
Did you get the little Pegasos sticker?
Yes, I forgot to mention that. :-)
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Yep, the games are pretty good - especially Software Tycoon. Point and click adventure game fans will love Feeble Files but I've never liked that genre (about the only Amigan I know who doesn't :roll:). Tales of Tamar looks good but I can't figure out how to play it... Knights and Merchants (which doesn't come with the stuff but you can buy it seperately) is a quality port of a quality Settlers-type game.
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It's marked PWRON on the Pegasos schematic, and POWER SW on the tower cable.
OK, that one's in place, with the POWER SW marking facing the top of the case. Reset, Power-LED & HDD LED are also in place.
The connecter that is supposed to go towards the top right, for USB, I have two of, marked 1 & 2.
The speaker connector is in place OK too.
I tried switching on with these connected up - still zilch.
After this I'm a little puzzled as the only connector I have left is a single hole one with 'SHIELD' written on it.
:-?
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:-(
All that I can suggest is that you recheck all your connections, and in particular make sure the ATX active power feed is in tightly. If it still doesn't work, you might have a broken tower, or a broken Peg. The first one is more likely. I can't help beyond that, sorry. :-(
You can tell the Pegasos is receiving power even if the PSU fan is off. If you plug in a network cable the link LED will light up (but it's not likely you'll have such a cable unless you have a LAN or broadband).
My tower didn't have a SHIELD. What do the docs of your tower say about it? Or the website if you have no docs?
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Hi Kenny:
All that I can suggest is that you recheck all your connections, and in particular make sure the ATX active power feed is in tightly.
It is. :-x
No network cable to check with either. :-(
I'm still trying to find a web site for the case - there's a single sheet of A4 with very basic instructions which don't even touch on the cabling. I can't even tell you who manufactured it. :roll:
The A4 sheet is headed "3008 ATX CASE" and the case says "Stealth" on the front. I got it from PC store, so I'll probably dismantle everything & take it back in & ask them to test it. Dang.
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Don't give up. :-)
There are pretty much things one can overlook. Let me mention two of my friends. Both complained that the board is non functioning. For the first it turned out, that he tried to use a 4x CD-ROM from the jurassic, and a 200Mb(!) HDD. (Most probably from Noah's PC store) When he bought a new CD-ROM and a more moden HDD it worked.
For the second it turned out however that it broke in transit... Genesi replaced the broken board though, so you lose nothing, except time.
For me, at first I tried the board with only a CD-ROM which turned out to be just too little for the ATX PSU of the house. When I added the HDD it magically started.
So don't give up, it's just a computer :-)
(I have to mention, that despite the Pegasos is available as Prebuilt systems, most of us purchased the mobo only - so we get what we deserve... :-))
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Hey Wilse,
I always have about a hundred projects going. So the day my Pegasos showed up I took it to a local box-stuffer, spent a few minutes on the [heavy discount] sales floor picking components, and handed them the Pegasos and the MB diagram that came with it. The assembled machine was out the door 50 minutes after that - they even verified that it was booting to the Open Firmware. The assembly only cost me 30 Simolians above the component costs. And while they were stuffing I managed to get another errand done downtown (if you can really call the Montana stix "downtown").
They were also extremely interested in the machine and asked scads of questions - especially when I insisted that I didn't need any extra cooling junk for it! They admired the clean design, dug the fact that it had its own custom OS and could also run Linux, and soon a bunch of others. All in all, a very satisfactory experience!
So let your fingers do the walking : }
...After that it was easy-peasy to format the drive and install MorphOS from the CD. Minutes after reading the doc on MorphOS-news.de I was in business and digging the main hard drive out of my beat and sinking, stuffed-to-the-gills-with-goodies Amiga 2000, and playing around with some of the software on it after changing a couple things in DOpus Magellan.
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@Warface:
Don't give up.
I won't. Not yet, anyway. :-)
Both complained that the board is non functioning. For the first it turned out, that he tried to use a 4x CD-ROM from the jurassic, and a 200Mb(!) HDD. (Most probably from Noah's PC store) When he bought a new CD-ROM and a more moden HDD it worked.
Hmm. The HD is brand new but the CD-ROM is an old 24x device from about 5 yrs ago. I'll try it with the CDRW in my girlfriend's PC. It's only about 2 years old.
Was his case completely dead before he changed these parts?
For the second it turned out however that it broke in transit... Genesi replaced the broken board though, so you lose nothing, except time.
Hopefully it isn't that. The board certainly appears to be OK, not that that neccessarily means anything.
(I have to mention, that despite the Pegasos is available as Prebuilt systems, most of us purchased the mobo only - so we get what we deserve... )
I guess so. :-)
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@Greenboy:
I always have about a hundred projects going. So the day my Pegasos showed up I took it to a local box-stuffer, spent a few minutes on the [heavy discount] sales floor picking components, and handed them the Pegasos and the MB diagram that came with it. The assembled machine was out the door 50 minutes after that - they even verified that it was booting to the Open Firmware. The assembly only cost me 30 Simolians above the component costs.
I'll try another CDROM tonight and if it still won't come to life, I'll take it into the shop.
They were also extremely interested in the machine and asked scads of questions
The guy in the shop I went to completely glazed over, as soon as I mentioned it was PowerPC and not running Windows, and stopped asking about it. :roll:
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Wilse wrote:
Both complained that the board is non functioning. For the first it turned out, that he tried to use a 4x CD-ROM from the jurassic, and a 200Mb(!) HDD. (Most probably from Noah's PC store) When he bought a new CD-ROM and a more moden HDD it worked.
Hmm. The HD is brand new but the CD-ROM is an old 24x device from about 5 yrs ago. I'll try it with the CDRW in my girlfriend's PC. It's only about 2 years old.
Was his case completely dead before he changed these parts?
He told us it's not functioning at all. (We didn't know about the parts he used, he just told us that it's crap. It was for us to find out, that he used those. (I have no idea how he managed to get such an ancient HDD))
He is a happy Pegasos user today. :-)
Are the HDD/CD jumpers all right? Are the units at the right place on the 80 wire IDE cable? Any life sign? (even if tiny?)
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@Everyone:
Are the HDD/CD jumpers all right?
I'm not at home right now, but I think so.
What configuration should they be?
Are the units at the right place on the 80 wire IDE cable?
Ahhhh.....When I asked for 80 pin UDMA cable, the guy in the local store gave me what looked like an ordinary IDE cable and told me they did the same thing. I'm beginning to think he sold me an ordinary IDE cable........I'll clarify this later today. :roll:
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Ahhhh.....When I asked for 80 pin UDMA cable, the guy in the local store gave me what looked like an ordinary IDE cable and told me they did the same thing. I'm beginning to think he sold me an ordinary IDE cable........I'll clarify this later today.
If it's an 80-pin UDMA cable, one end will have a blue connector, and this is the end you plug into the motherboard.
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If it's an 80-pin UDMA cable, one end will have a blue connector, and this is the end you plug into the motherboard.
I'm not at home but I'm fairly sure it didn't have a blue connector.
Could this stop the whole thing from powering up?
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Wilse wrote:
If it's an 80-pin UDMA cable, one end will have a blue connector, and this is the end you plug into the motherboard.
I'm not at home but I'm fairly sure it didn't have a blue connector.
Could this stop the whole thing from powering up?
Not on a PC it wouldn't, but it would stop your HDD from working. Have you called Genesi support yet?
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@MDMA:
Have you called Genesi support yet?
No. I didn't realise they had a support no.
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Wilse wrote:
@MDMA:
Have you called Genesi support yet?
No. I didn't realise they had a support no.
I was just assuming they have one.
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Ok, I confused people - the IDE cable needed for a Pegasos hard drive
is an ATA66/100 IDE cable. This has 40 holes on each connector but 80
wires inside. The older cables won't work with HDs but they might work
with CD-ROMs - but I'd get two ATA66/100 just to be sure anyway, and
forget the old cables.
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KennyR wrote:
Ok, I confused people - the IDE cable needed for a Pegasos hard drive
is an ATA66/100 IDE cable. This has 40 holes on each connector but 80
wires inside. The older cables won't work with HDs but they might work
with CD-ROMs - but I'd get two ATA66/100 just to be sure anyway, and
forget the old cables.
Them's the ones with a blue connector. :-)
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Mine (http://www.kdh-amiga-shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=717) don't have a blue connector, but they do have a tag saying telling you what IDE socket to plug it into - master, slave or controller. The controller tag is blue.
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I'm not at home but I'm fairly sure it didn't have a blue connector.
Could this stop the whole thing from powering up?
Nope. The Peg should power up whether it has HDs in it or not.
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KennyR wrote:
I'm not at home but I'm fairly sure it didn't have a blue connector.
Could this stop the whole thing from powering up?
Nope. The Peg should power up whether it has HDs in it or not.
That's worrying.
Is there a quick way to check if the board or case is dead?
Or will I have to lug the thing back to the shop?
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The only way I know to see if the board has power is to plug in a network cable or a USB device such as a keyboard or mouse. As for the tower - sorry, I don't know how to test a ATX tower, except maybe with a voltmeter or such.
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@KennyR:
I have a USB smartcard reader & USB digicam (although i've misplaced the camera :roll:). Would they do?
I was also thinking of stripping down the PC and swapping the cases round.
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They should show that they're being supplied power, I think. Lit LEDs, beeps, etc. Then again, maybe they would need an init message to power up from the USB stack in the host OS, so I'm not sure. If your PC is ATX try turning it off at the front (but not at the back) and connecting the devices to see what they do when supplied with power.
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Tried it on my ATX PC and it does not light up unless the power goes through the mainboard properly.
( on at back, off at front ) - no light
( on at back, on at front ) - light
( off at back, off at front ) - guess :-P
( off at back, on at front ) - oh please!
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Yeah, I just tried it too with my Pegasos (after raking around in a very small cupboard for half an hour to find a USB digital camera - ouch!). Power isn't supplied to the camera until poseidon is run on the Pegasos. Bugger.
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Well it's definitely not the case. I've just spent the last couple of hours dismantling it and the PC. I tried putting the PC mobo inside the ATX case. I connected the large white power plug and the little "Power SW" connecter. Switched on and the CPU fan on the PC spun up. I've now reinstated the PC in it's original case.( which isn't quite ATX?) Now the PC Modem won't work, much to the annoyance of my girlfriend.
I'm typing this via 28k Modem on my A1200.
I'm beginning to think it might be the Pegasos mobo which is goosed.
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Vorsprung Dork Technik :-?
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I'm beginning to think it might be the Pegasos mobo which is goosed.
If that is the case then contact Genesi and they will exchange it for you. However, let that be the last option. I know it's unprobable, but it can be that you simply overlook something.
The best option would be if there were a Pegasos user nearby, meeting him and trying out the mobo by replacing his mobo with yours. That'd give an exact YES/NO concerning whether it's a working or a damaged one.
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Hi Warface,
contact Genesi and they will exchange it for you. However, let that be the last option. I know it's unprobable, but it can be that you simply overlook something.
I've emailed them, asking if there is any way I can test the board. Last night I connected up only the board, cpu & graphics card. Something I hadn't noticed before was that the fan on the graphics card *does* spin up. It's so quiet compared to the PC and facing downwards, that I hadn't noticed it.
The output to the monitor is still blank though. (light grey/white screen)
The best option would be if there were a Pegasos user nearby, meeting him and trying out the mobo by replacing his mobo with yours. That'd give an exact YES/NO concerning whether it's a working or a damaged one.
Unfortunately I don't drive, so getting about is bit awkward.
OTOH, Kenny doesn't live too far from me. Hmm...you've got me thinking now.
Kenny, if you're reading this, perhaps I could jump on a train to Wishaw on Saturday, if you're free?
:-P
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I've emailed them, asking if there is any way I can test the board. Last night I connected up only the board, cpu & graphics card. Something I hadn't noticed before was that the fan on the graphics card *does* spin up. It's so quiet compared to the PC and facing downwards, that I hadn't noticed it.
The output to the monitor is still blank though. (light grey/white screen)
It sounds as if your DIMMs aren't being detected. If you got some nullmodem serial output you would be able to tell for sure.
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@Kenny:
It sounds as if your DIMMs aren't being detected. If you got some nullmodem serial output you would be able to tell for sure.
I'll see if I can bag me a cable on the way home.
Is the debug programme on aminet?
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Use any term program. AmTerm on Aminet will do the trick.
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KennyR wrote:
Use any term program. AmTerm on Aminet will do the trick.
I'll download it tonight, cheers.
What was the spec. of that null modem cable again?
9-pin serial to something or other? :-? :-P
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Peg->Amiga: 9 pin female to 25 pin female cable
Peg-> PC: depends, Edit: 9pin female to 9pin female is most likely (some PCs have a mix of serial ports).
A Laplink cable has both 9 pin and 25 pin on each end, and you can use whatever one you like. I recommend this cable.
But whatever you do, you MUST make sure it is nullmodem and not just a straight serial, or you will fry the chips of your Amiga!
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A Laplink cable has both 9 pin and 25 pin on each end, and you can use whatever one you like. I recommend this cable.
Cheers Kenny.
make sure it is nullmodem and not just a straight serial, or you will fry the chips of your Amiga!
Noted. :-)
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Something I hadn't noticed before was that the fan on the graphics card *does* spin up. It's so quiet compared to the PC and facing downwards, that I hadn't noticed it.
The output to the monitor is still blank though. (light grey/white screen)
That is a good sign. There IS electricity at least. :-) The serial debug will be decisive though - if you get no serial debug output at all, then the mobo is broken. If serial debug works - it will tell you what the problem is. :-)
Wishing it's the latter. Good luck!
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Sweet. I hope you add all what has been discussed in this thread into an FAQ or into something that gets shipped with later Pegasos motherboards ( on paper! ).
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Something I hadn't noticed before was that the fan on the graphics card *does* spin up.
Well, based on the assumption that a Pegasos is a PC motherboard with a different CPU and Northbridge, it's definately your RAM that isn't working. I'd order some more off the net.
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DaveP wrote:
Sweet. I hope you add all what has been discussed in this thread into an FAQ or into something that gets shipped with later Pegasos motherboards ( on paper! ).
For MorphOS there is a guide at here (http://www.morphos-news.de/beta2help/qsb2h_en.html).
As for the HW, if you order a preinstalled system you will not face problems, except damage caused by the transfer.
When you buy a standalone system and you buy all the accessories then you're on your own. The schemantics is pretty self explanatory in most cases.
A short troubleshooting guide and a few words about the OpenFirmware serial debug would be nice though. I agree.
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Its the debugging thing I think is important. It is too easy to lose self confidence when setting up hardware when it doesn't come on.
Thought process is:
1. #### #### ####!
2. Did I hit it with static electricity - I forgot to touch the radiator pipe before opening oh no that will invalidate my warranty.
3. Right, dissemble everything and start it without anything in.
4. #### #### ####!
5. Oh no, maybe I wasn't supposed to start it without anything in, maybe Ive ####ed it up by doing that!
6. Manual. Wheres the ####ing manual.
7. Ive got no bloody manual!
8. Ah schematic. What the hell does all this mean? Locking nut A and Flange B! WTF a flange?
9. Internet, Ill ask someone on the internet.
10. Oh no! They don't know what it is either.
Versus
"IF your Pegasos does not come on, don't panic, switch off and run a terminal program on another machine, plug in the provided serial cable between your debug machine and your Pegasos and switch back on again. It will give you an X-digit code. Here is a print out of what these mean"
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OK - getting somewhere at last! :-)
I have now got the Smartfirmware screen up. I'm still puzzled as to why it didn't work originally but....
Anyway, when I type:
boot/pci/cd boot.img
I get:
no such symbol "boot/pci/cd"
error: undefined word
no such symbol "boot.img"
error: undefined word
ok_
Will the terminal prog tell me what's causing it or do you think it's the RAM stick?
I have "Hyperterm" on the PC but haven't a clue how to set it up.
Anyway, main thing is, I've got something happening! :pint:
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@Wilse:
boot /pci/cd boot.img
(need a space after boot)
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Madgun68 wrote:
@Wilse:
boot /pci/cd boot.img
(need a space after boot)
OK, getting somewhere;
error: error while trying to load or boot
Could it be my aging CDROM?
Thanks again,
Robert
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Will the terminal prog tell me what's causing it or do you think it's the RAM stick?
You don't need the terminal prog any more. The only reason it was needed was in case no memory could be allocated to init the gfx card to show the openfirmware screen in the first place. The nullmodem isn't useless however, especially if you want to network your machines (or debug).
So your RAM seems to work, luckily enough. Question is, is it all detected or just half of it? You won't know until you boot MOS (or look at the serial debug).
error: error while trying to load or boot
Could it be my aging CDROM?
Very possibly. I hear people had problems with the Peg not recognising old drives - not older drives, old drives - ie. 1998 and before.
You're making progress. Bet you're glad you didn't send the Peg back now, eh? ;-)
And the problem was probably a loose CPU card. I thought my board was broken too, for a while. You have to make sure that thing is really in there.
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Hi Kenny,
You don't need the terminal prog any more. The only reason it was needed was in case no memory could be allocated to init the gfx card to show the openfirmware screen in the first place.
Good. Glad that's out of the way.
The nullmodem isn't useless however, especially if you want to network your machines (or debug).
Would I be able to transfer files from the A1200 to the pegasos or PC this way?
Very possibly. I hear people had problems with the Peg not recognising old drives - not older drives, old drives - ie. 1998 and before.
I think mine is from '98, actually. I'll switch this PC off in a minute and raid it! :-D
You're making progress. Bet you're glad you didn't send the Peg back now, eh?
Don't I just know it! :-P
Strangely, it always seems to be when I'm just about stumped that things start working again. Same thing happened when I towered my A1200. Then it turned out that the Scandoubler wasn't pushed down firmly enough.And the problem was probably a loose CPU card. I thought my board was broken too, for a while. You have to make sure that thing is really in there.
Possibly, as I did remove it, then replace it, although I was sure I'd wedged it in properly and it was a bitch to get back out.
I'll probably never know for sure. ;-)
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Would I be able to transfer files from the A1200 to the pegasos or PC this way?
Of course, a serial network. Don't ask me how to set it up though, it's something I've never done.
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OK, getting somewhere;
error: error while trying to load or boot
Could it be my aging CDROM?
Perhaps. Then again, perhaps it's something else.
At the firmware prompt, type show-devs and press enter. If it scrolls by too fast (and it probably will) then press space shortly after pressing enter. What you're looking for is an entry that has cd@x,y. It should be right near the entry for your harddrive. If you see one, use what you see to boot. For example, you might need to type:
boot /pci/cd@1,0 boot.img to get it to boot. If that fails, make sure it's connected. :-) If all else fails, yeah, the drive is probably too old.
Good luck.
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OK, it was the CDROM. I've replaced it and now have:
ok boot /pci/cd boot.img
followed by a series of columns and rows that look a bit like a tracker display. There are 8 rows and 16 columns, 0 to F. Under this is:
Root dir: " " flags-0x2 extent=0x17 size=0x1000
Any ideas what now? :-)
Cheers,
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Any ideas what now?
You might try the serial output again. You're real close.
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Ooooo, I know this one!
It's still the CD-ROM that's at fault, but possibly because of
location.
Move it to the other IDE channel. Switch from master to slave or
vice-versa, try the combos. one of my CD-ROM's would only work
properly if it was IDE1/slave and another only when as IDE1/master or
IDE0/slave.
Why? beats the hell out of me.
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@downix:
Ooooo, I know this one!
You see, that's the great thing about this site:
One minute we're all arguing about religion or whatever; the next, you lot are all helping do'nut here set up his machine. :-D
It's still the CD-ROM that's at fault, but possibly because of location
Well, I'm back at work again, but I'll be sure to move it around when I get back home (in about eight hours :-( ).
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@Madgun68:
You might try the serial output again. You're real close.
I never did figure out how to set up Hyperterm. Any tips? (It only seems to have options for dialing a remote computer via the 'phoneline.)
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I know it's bad form to reply to your own messages but:
OK, it was the CDROM. I've replaced it and now have:
ok boot /pci/cd boot.img
followed by a series of columns and rows that look a bit like a tracker display. There are 8 rows and 16 columns, 0 to F. Under this is:
Root dir: " " flags-0x2 extent=0x17 size=0x1000
I forgot to mention that, if I reset and try again, it does the same thing but also adds:
zlib: unknown error -2
error: abort
ok_
at the end.
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Is there a spinning character shown after that "dump"/"tracker-like" display?
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sdesros wrote:
Is there a spinning character shown after that "dump"/"tracker-like" display?
Yes. After about 10secs, it stops spinning then nothing else happens.
If I then reset and try again, it stops spinning after about 3secs and then says:
zlib: unknown error -2
error: abort
ok_
:-?
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I'm not an expert on the MorphOS low level, but it sounds to me like the boot image is failing to unpack. Contact Genesi immediately.
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KennyR wrote:
I'm not an expert on the MorphOS low level, but it sounds to me like the boot image is failing to unpack. Contact Genesi immediately.
Not the IDE channel then?
Oh dear.
Well, I've e-mailed Nicolas Sallin and passed on your comment.
Thanks,
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Hmm... I had similar symptons (although no "zlib" issues.) It was traced to a faulty CDRom drive. (The unit was actually faulty. IE: it wouldn't read the disk after it spun down, I had to eject to cause the drive to spin up again.)
Although it doesn't seem to be a problem with yours though. Especially with that error popping up?
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@ KennyR
Miami itself is a pain in the arse to install, since its installer is dumb and makes wild assumptions that fail on MOS. Easier just to copy from a CDRW and make the add the assign manually to user-startup.
I only encountered one problem with the Miami installer. It stalled, and the error message said that I needed MUI v3.8 or later. I knew that I had that (;-)) so I simply deleted that part (checking for MUI) of the installer script.
After that it worked flawlessly. :-)
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@ Wilse
As Downix said, try moving the CD-ROM; try different configurations of Master/Slave, try to set it manually by jumpers and not rely on "cable selection", try to have both the harddrive and CD-Rom on the same channel, try the opposite, try different channels, etc. Ultimately, try another CD-ROM. If it still doesn't work, I would go back to the store and ask for another kind of memory.
I hope you get your Pegasos working soon! Let us know when you are surfing from Voyager or Ibrowse! :-)
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@Wilse
I've missed this thread or I would have helped you out as much as possibel:-/ You probably would have been better to ask on the list you were susbcribed to, that is the support list. However email me if you need individual help, I'll try my best:-)
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@tmhg:
try moving the CD-ROM; try different configurations of Master/Slave, try to set it manually by jumpers and not rely on "cable selection", try to have both the harddrive and CD-Rom on the same channel, try the opposite, try different channels, etc. Ultimately, try another CD-ROM.
Well, I tried switching channels, same channel and I've had every jumper combination I can (HD master CD slave; HD master CD master; HD master CD cable select, etc..)
I even tried yet another CDROM (that's three now.)
Still no joy.
If it still doesn't work, I would go back to the store and ask for another kind of memory.
If I get this "Hyper Terminal" debug prog. working, would it be able to tell me if it was a memory problem?
I hope you get your Pegasos working soon!
Me too. :-D
Let us know when you are surfing from Voyager or Ibrowse!
I'm on iBrowse on my A1200 atm but am just about to switch to the PC. Don't worry, you'll know when I'm surfing via the peggy! ;-)
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@red:
You probably would have been better to ask on the list you were susbcribed to, that is the support list.
I know but I can't send mails from that address during the day (at work) and have found the guys on here very helpful. I should really subscribe to the list with an address I can use from work but I haven't got round to it yet.
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I only encountered one problem with the Miami installer. It stalled, and the error message said that I needed MUI v3.8 or later. I knew that I had that () so I simply deleted that part (checking for MUI) of the installer script.
After that it worked flawlessly.
And how would one download Miami if they didn't have it on CD?
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Wilse, you can also partition and format the drive using your Amiga (the boot partition must be FFS of course), copy the files from the CD onto it, and put it back into the Pegasos to boot without the CD-ROM.
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KennyR wrote:
Wilse, you can also partition and format the drive using your Amiga (the boot partition must be FFS of course), copy the files from the CD onto it, and put it back into the Pegasos to boot without the CD-ROM.
I never realised that but, before I start attempting that, I got the debugger running. The final line of output reads:
> f_go: error..machine_go returns
Any idea what that means?
I could post the whole lot but it's pretty huge.
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The final line of output reads:
> f_go: error..machine_go returns
Any idea what that means?
No, sorry. If you have an IRC client, fire it up and go to irc.vapor.com #morphos and ask there. Someone there will definitely know. I can't find anything on the mailing list about it.
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I've never used IRC but I guess now would be a good time to start.......
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Wilse wrote:
I've never used IRC but I guess now would be a good time to start.......
If you just want to access #morphos without setting up an IRC client you can access it through a web browser from morphzone.org (http://www.morphzone.org). You have to get an account at that site first ...
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Wilse wrote:
I've never used IRC but I guess now would be a good time to start.......
If you just want to access #morphos without setting up an IRC client you can access it through a web browser from morphzone.org (http://www.morphzone.org). You have to get an account at that site first ...
Cheers guys. I don't have time tonight - just going out for dinner - but I'll try tomorrow.
Thanks again,
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A little late, but moved to the appropriate forum.
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If you just want to access #morphos without setting up an IRC client you can access it through a web browser from morphzone.org.
Just logging in now.....