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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: bak006 on July 24, 2006, 06:36:32 PM
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Hi,
I have a question:
If I have a x86 motherboard, is it possible to remove the cpu (Intel or Amd is indiferent) and put in the socket a board whit a powerpc cpu? Obviously this new board is a filter between hardware and cpu...
So "only" with this "chip" board will be possible obtain a new and not obsolete motherboard for AmigaOS?
Fantascience or is it possible?
Luke
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No.
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There was a project called Riored-J but for older motherboards.
http://www.czuba-tech.com/RIORED-J/english/overview.htm
Unfortunately the project itself was never finished.
Perhaps the best candidate for AmigaOS 4 is modified Project Blackdog with PowerPC 405:
http://www.projectblackdog.com
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bak006 wrote:
If I have a x86 motherboard, is it possible to remove the cpu (Intel or Amd is indiferent) and put in the socket a board whit a powerpc cpu? Obviously this new board is a filter between hardware and cpu...
So "only" with this "chip" board will be possible obtain a new and not obsolete motherboard for AmigaOS?
The bus timings of the chips are incompatible, the BIOS would need to be rewritten, there would need to be new drivers written for the northbridge and southbridge...
Even AROS has limits on which x86 boards it will work with.
As Piru said, "No."
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Fantascienza!! :-D
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it is possible but enormously difficult. it would be better and perhaps even easier to just build an all new mobo.
powerpc cpu > complex glue logic > pc mobo
a new bios wouldnt be necissary because you would have to have a flash rom on the board to start it up and it could easily be made to ignore what is on the mobo
the glue logic asics or whatnot would do all of the interfacing between different timing and singnals between cpu and mobo. this is very similar to what 030 accelerators that plug into the 68000 socket do but on a much bigger scale.
basicly what would would have is a very complicated card that is using a cpu socket as a weird external bus.
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http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/mainboard/ecs-sima-a9s-sis756.html
"ECS PF88 Extreme Hybrid is quite an unusual and controversial product. On the one hand, we should do justice to ECS engineers, who implemented the idea to support completely different processors."
There is an ECS PF-88 motherboard with CPU cards that can be used with either Intel or AMD CPU.
I do not know if it is possible to create a special PF-88 CPU cards for PowerPC.
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Or a PPC on PCI card. X86 boots the BIOS and PCI card takes over from there. Maybe the HD plugs onto the PCI card instead of internal IDE/SATA connector. Again, maybe cheaper just to build a new PPC mobo than a card like this anyway.
Software PPC Emulator being more likely and X86 port being smarter. Who cares about the "future" though, I mean, I don't really think it even exists. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.
AmigaHeretic
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but then, why not go the other way?
plug a nice little P4M into a classic amiga's cpu slot/socket? good thermal characteristics, current ram tech. kinda like a mini PC on a card running a 68k emulator, with the amiga CPU slot as a "weird external bus" ;-)
might get a few add ons for free, like USB/IDE/mini PCI/onboard GFX/SO-DIMM RAM...
but then i guess we would need a genius to come up with the logic / firmware to interface the two...
:-D
Dree-e-e-e-eam, dream dream dre-e-eeam, dree-e-e-e-eam.... :lol:
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CRAZY! consider this if you put a jet engine in you car is it now an airplane? Go ahead try it out...
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consider this if you put a jet engine in you car is it now an airplane?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/23/flying_car/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/23/flying_car/)
The truth is out there.
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pierre wrote:
CRAZY! consider this if you put a jet engine in you car is it now an airplane? Go ahead try it out...
umm yeah you could call it an airplane. if it flies, why not? it might be a little crazy but if it works who cares.
actually a cage like deal with rotor blades could turn any car into a helicopter.
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but then, why not go the other way?
plug a nice little P4M into a classic amiga's cpu slot/socket? good thermal characteristics, current ram tech. kinda like a mini PC on a card running a 68k emulator, with the amiga CPU slot as a "weird external bus"
Heh. I was accidentally slashdotted about a year ago when I published this little piece of similar silliness: http://www.danaquarium.com/article.php?story=2005022810275733
Even ended up in print: http://www.danamania.com/temp/theaustralian.jpg
dana
:roll:
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back to the thread though i think that its a bit less crazy and more feasable than a jet powered airplane car. as the mobo will work perfectly no matter what cpu s connected as long as all the signals and data get to where it needs to be when
ICE (In Circut Emulators) are devices that do just that. this would be similar but for non testing use
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Possible, I'd say yes. Practical, I'd say no.
I'd never heard of the Riored thing, but that's basically what you'd have to do. As current busses to northbridge are much faster than G4, there may be timing problems if there aren't wait states in the bus protocol. The northbridge needs to be able to waste time while the PPC/FPGA provide data, and it also needs to be able to stop sending data to CPU when it can talk much faster than the FPGA/CPU can listen. But I'd guess it's still "possible".
Then you'd need a BIOS on the CPU adaptor card for the PPC. I don't think you'd really need a new BIS for the motherboard, but an x86 emulation would be handy to "run" whatever is native to the motherboard. An extension to the graphics BIOS emulation already in uboot...
Even if it could be made to function, it'd still be akward to fit into the AMD or Intel sockets of today and then fit a heatsink properly. Could be tricky. But not "impossible".
All in all, to get enough knowledge of modern northbridge busses and get the logic translation working in an FPGA would be a lot of work. It'd probably be easier with one of the coming SOCs that have DDR and PCI-Express built-in, or maybe a G5+northbridge all on the CPU adaptor card. Then you could either hypertransport out of the card for the G5+northbridge, or finangle a hypertransport/PCI-Express bridge to that part of the AMD CPU socket, then connect the DDR interface directly to that part of the AMD CPU socket, etc. AMD sockets might be easier to fit into as hypertransport is documented, and so is DDR, I don't know what else is in an AMD socket these days. I don't know what Intel's protocol is or if it's documented in a form useful to these crazy ideas. I'd rather do G5+northbridge than try to inangle an FPGA to translate directly from G5 elastic bus to Intel bus.
But, using a G5+northbridge that way, is kindof akward sounding, plugging an almost complete computer into another computer. I don't know of a PCI-Express to Hypertranport bridge that works in that direction, the ones I have heard of between those two need the CPU connected to hypertransport end and cannot handle CPU conencted to PCI-Express end, which is exactly backwards to being able to use it with an 8641 or PA Semi. I'm not against plugging a nearly complete computer into another computer, but some don't like the idea.
I think the amont of work involved and the expense make this very unlikely, but I wouldnt' call it "impossible".
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consider this if you put a jet engine in you car is it now an airplane? Go ahead try it out...
Somebody already did... :)
jet car video (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2006/04/30/MNGJGII7BB1.DTL&o=0)
jet car (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/06/jet-powered-vw-bug-takes-to-the-street/)
Heck, why stop there? How's about a jet-powered bike? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5437209871684663077&q=bike)
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Ok check this out,
sparc on intel (http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Sparc_on_Intel_translator_due_in_weeks/0,2000061702,39266934,00.htm)