Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: Blinx123 on July 22, 2006, 10:43:53 AM
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Hi guys,
First I´m new here so I don´t know if this was already asked but my question is: Would it be possible to run AMIGA OS 4.0 on other hardware than an Amiga One using PearPC for example. I would really like to see Amiga OS 4.0. working on a Windows or Linux machine.
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OS4 currently officially runs on Classic PPC (only released to betatesters) and AmigaOne. Unoficcially it is said to run on other hardware aswell as reported by quite some people (not in its original released form, though, and not neccesarily legally). Running under PearPC it is so far not yet proven to do although there are rumours of some people having done that very thing.
If you are waiting for an official X86 release you will probably have to wait a VERY long time (if not forever), and since OS4 is locked to the AmigaOne hardware at the moment you won't be able to run it under PearPC unless hacking the OS.
So... to answer your question... possible? Yes, but no. Depending on how you look upon it.
EDIT: Typoo.
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I SERIOUSLY doubt it, unless someone cracks it, which will probably happen sooner or later, sadly :(
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Hyperion REALLY should see too that it get an official beta release for Classic PPC since they have got nothing to lose. If not only to get some more people developing for OS4, but of course it would be a nice gesture towards the community aswell. I would be surprised if there were more AmigaOnes out there than Classic PPC accelerator cards.
No logical answer whatsoever has been given to as of why Hyperion haven't released OS4 beta for Classic PPC yet. If they are worried about having to give support they could just get someone to write an guide on how to install the OS on Classic PCC and from that point distance themselves from any further support. If they are worried about disturbing their planned Amiga 'comeback' a Classic PPC release wouldn't do much of a difference since the OS already is out there for the AmigaOne owners to use.
No logic, whatsoever. Extremely annoying. But one has gotten quite used to not so logical decisions being made when it comes to the Amiga scene in general. Not saying that Hyperion doesn't do a god job otherwise, but anyways.
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@Legerdemain
You know.. i used to have exactly the same opinion with you until i read a very disappointing post from a hyperion team member, elsewhere. In which he admits that: The drivers of the classic version are a total mess, mediators are not supported yet thus the beta runs on AGA(?) and C/Bvision equipped PPC Amigas (which is good enough for me ;-)) and last but not least that very little time has been invested in developing the classic version of the OS... *sigh*
Iirc, the classic development has been halted lately and only the A1 still progreses, but i'm not sure about that. IF this is true, it's horrible!
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No logical answer whatsoever has been given to as of why Hyperion haven't released OS4 beta for Classic PPC yet.
the reasons are not logical for us but (unfortunately) they are from a commercial POV.
AmigaOS4 (like it or not) is a commercial product. Try to figure if an hypothetical AmigaOS4 for PowerUP version would been released without an installer and/or all the driver perfectly working! it would be a mess! Theres MOS for PowerUP around ;-)
ah! i'm one is waiting for that release! but i'm slowly loosing the hope.
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Framiga:
On certain points I don't agree with you. I don't see OS4 an a commercial product as of yet since only betas have been released. But, yes, when the final is released commercially it will of course be a commercial product.
Betas are supposed to be buggy (or at least, bugs are expected to be found). If a beta is released with someone, preferably someone outside of Hyperion since Hyperion obviosly doesn't want to have the 68k version of the OS consuming their time, having compiled some information on how to install the OS and Hyperion also very CLEARLY states that the beta is nothing but AS IS software wihtout any further support from them being available at the moment... I think people trying out the beta would know pretty much what to expect (and thus wouldn't be dissapointed to such a high extent concerning what the OS would lack at the moment).
The main point here, however, is that I think a beta release would not only give people in the community something to play around with for a while (while waiting for the final product, which, as I see it, could be years away since Hyperion isn't exactly developing the OS only to please the community but also is hoping for some kind of attention from people outside the community. I mean, it is not people in general that feels like the OS has a deadline, because they don't know about the OS at all and anytime released would be something 'new' to them. But the community however feels like the release is having a deadline which must be set sometime in the near future) but also give more people the chance of developing software for the OS. Which is ESSENTIAL is OS4 ever will be released as a commercial product.
But, then again, if the Classic PPC version of the OS is pretty much unusable and can't be used for developing software for the OS, well, then it wouldn't be of much use for software developers.
So, I do see your point, but I can't agree with it completely.
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don't get me wrong. I understand prefectly your (and others) POV but in the meanwhile i accept Hyperion' decision (thats nothing that we can change anyway).
The problem, currently is the lack of hardware. I'm quite sure that when it will be available, things will change.
Ah and yes, AmigaOS4 is and will be a commercial product :-) (even if in a sort of "custom" way)
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@Blinx123
Back to your original question: "Would it be possible to run AMIGA OS 4.0 on other hardware than an Amiga One using PearPC for example. I would really like to see Amiga OS 4.0. working on a Windows or Linux machine."
The short answer is .. no, not legally.
As far as I am aware, at the moment the pre-release version of Amiga OS 4.0 only runs on the AmigaOne family of products (AmigaOne SE, AmigaOne XE and MicroA1 aka µA1-C) and certain PPC equipped classic Amigas owned by beta-testers. I do not know the details of which classic Amiga models are supported or which PPC accerator cards are supported or which add-on cards are supported.
There are rumblings about new hardware coming from ACK and Troika. Although they will be PPC based, these products will use different chips than what was used in the AmigaOne. Perhaps that is one reason for the delay in releasing Amiga OS 4.0.
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redfox
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@Blinx123
There is no way to legally purchase and run OS4 at this time. If you want to try OS4 you have to buy an expensive used or possibly refurbished, buggy and failure prone, "AmigaOne" motherboard.
As for other hardware or emulators? As others have mentioned, no, not legally and probably not illegally either. There have been rumors of bootleg versions for Pegasos hardware and/or PearPC, but I'd guess these rumors as being false until I see proof otherwise.
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Thank you guys. So maybe I´ll buy a AMIGA ONE sometime in the next year.
BTW: Why aren´t there new AMIGA ONEs sold? Should there be a AMIGA ONE XG in Micro ATX Format or something like this? I read about it on wikipedia.
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So maybe I´ll buy a AMIGA ONE sometime in the next year.
Why aren´t there new AMIGA ONEs sold?
Because no new AmigaOnes are made. There won't be any new AmigaOnes.
ACK and Troika are said to be designing some new hardware that could run OS4, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Neither have been able to show even rudimentary previews of the new HW, and it seems they haven't even been able to finish the design.
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That's the problem of the Amiga in the last 10 years. No company who ever owned Amiga wasn't able to produce new Amigas. There are many days I ask myself why couldn't Hyperion produce an Amiga OS4 for the x86 platform, or for ppc Mac. With an x86 version of AOS4 many of us who own or owned a classic Amiga and now are sitting in front of an Windows or Linux system would be run to the next dealer around the corner to catch one package of AOS4. And I believe that this market would be a much bigger one than the 1000 or less Amiga Ones they've bought until today. For a price of about 100 Euro by about 1 millions sold packages, what a great deal it would be. But I think we will never see this x86 version or a version that would run under Mac OSX on ppc platform, because they dont't really believe in the succes of these OS and these versions. We got Windows as mainstream system, Linux as developer system and MAC OS as designer system. And now where Apple has left the ppc market, is there a future for ppc hosted systems ?
But by the way, is there a way to run AOS4 under the Mac platform and furthermore on which computers was AOS4 developed before the Amiga One hardware was finished ? I think there must be an emulation platform for AOS4 to develope. Anyone who knows something about ? It would be a great pleasure to develope programs for AOS4 but without hardware it isn't really so easy.
CU
Vamp100
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Would it be possible to run AMIGA OS 4.0 on other hardware than an Amiga One using PearPC for example.
Yes, it would be possible and Adam Kowalczyk (ACK) has already allegedly managed to boot OS4 under the PPC-version of QEMU.
No logical answer whatsoever has been given to as of why Hyperion haven't released OS4 beta for Classic PPC yet
Indeed, many answers were given, but none of them contained any common logic. They prefer to wait for some basement soldering instead of selling OS4 to hardware that is already there (CSPPC and BPPC). :roll:
They will always find new stupid reasons *not to sell* what they have been working on for 5 years. Idiocy must be part of the Amiga-curse I guess...
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There are many days I ask myself why couldn't Hyperion produce an Amiga OS4 for the x86 platform, or for ppc Mac. With an x86 version of AOS4 many of us who own or owned a classic Amiga and now are sitting in front of an Windows or Linux system would be run to the next dealer around the corner to catch one package of AOS4. And I believe that this market would be a much bigger one than the 1000 or less Amiga Ones they've bought until today.
I'm pretty confident that this is something being heavily considered by Hyperion. Frankly, you don't spend a couple of years developing software that won't be able to be run on any hardware. My guess would be that they have tried running the OS on some different hardware platforms, and are hoping to find a way of releasing the OS while not having to be tied to the Amiga One motherboards (because, let's face it, the Amiga Ones are scarce already and a couple of machines dies of every year). Would anyone in their right mind continue developing such extensive software for a platform that, as of today (might of course change if some new hardware will be released), has no future whatsoever (and now I am not talking about all those people developing software for OS4, but the OS in itself)?
Hyperion is probably not aiming at pleasing only the community. Like someone said elsewhere: the community might feel there is a deadline for the 'return of Amiga'. People in general don't have that deadline, because to them Amiga has been dead since ages, and it won't matter if it will make a return in 1,2 or 5 years time.
The major problem, according to me, is that people that want to develop software for the OS isn't able to do so as of today. According to me, if they want software, they should aim at releasing the OS4 beta for classic PPC as soon as possible (relasing it as is, of course, and only if it is in such a shape that it is possible to use it for developing software for the OS).
Then there is also the problem of communication. Which is one of the major problems with some of the software and hardware developers still developing for the Amiga. Elbox, Hyperion, ACK, and many many others... they simply can't do good communication with the community. And, in the end, we all know what happens... people will start to doubt... there will be flaming... god knows what... and in some extreme cases the developers will be so upset by this (oh, it should really come as a surprise to them, no?) that they just quit doing what they are doing.
Heh.
I lost my focus. Sorry if this post makes no sense whatsoever.
It is, in the end, pretty ridicilous that the one thing that makes me not bothering about anything annouced for the Amiga today... (until it actually is released)... is bad communication. You don't announce things that you don't know for sure that you can deliver, you don't set deadlines which you can't keep, you don't promise things over and over again just to over and over again let the people you promised this and that down...
It isn't really strange that things look the way they do. With so much anger, hatred and doubt... in the community as of today... but, whatever, I am not really part of that any longer. I'm happy with the software/hardware I've got... and I will be happy with it for many years to come... so, if there will be no new hardware I won't be disappointed, and if OS4 won't be commercially released I won't be disappointed... but if... just if... I will of course be happy. But it will be a bonus... and not something that I've expected or eagerly awaited... and, thus, I feel rather well with one of my hobbies, the Amiga.
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No logical answer whatsoever has been given to as of why Hyperion haven't released OS4 beta for Classic PPC yet
Indeed, many answers were given, but none of them contained any common logic. They prefer to wait for some basement soldering instead of selling OS4 to hardware that is already there (CSPPC and BPPC).
They will always find new stupid reasons *not to sell* what they have been working on for 5 years. Idiocy must be part of the Amiga-curse I guess...
I believe i gave some clues about this in my previous post on this thread. And to add some more drama to the already tragic "OS4 for the classics" situation: One of the most well-known OS4 classic testers, Ryu, has recently left the Amiga scene.. I'm sure he had his reasons if you know what i mean...
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@AmigaMance
re:Ryu
A betatester in Amigaworld irc indicated today that Ryu still participated on the beta mailing list.
Ryu (Darren) also indicated in the main channel of irc that he had a recently rekindled interest.
re:hardware/Amy & Coldfire
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46625
I have posted some links within this thread that I hope you will find of interest concerning BB4,
Amiwest, and the hardware scheduled to appear at same.
Note:developers are usually in the Amigaworld irc main channel (#amigaworld) and they, almost daily,
answer questions from our membership and our visitors. In fact, Adam of ACK controls is doing this
as I make this post.
re:ACK
CPU upgrades/replacements for A1s scheduled for release Q3.
New hardware demo Q3 and scheduled for release Q4.
#6
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With no hardware in sight why not emulation or virtualisation? If I was clever enough I would create such a program (unfortuanally I only know how to emulate a 6502A ;-) ).
I see two ways this could be done (with expertise and time from people),
One way is to emulation with x86's. There could be a Virtual A1 program or a UAE modification that emulates a PPC accelerator. Sounds slow but I would'nt be surprised if a Core 2 Duo could emulate a 600MH G3 faster than the real thing. I would like to hear from x86 Mac's using Rosetta if this realistic or not.
The otherway is virtualisation on a older PPC Mac. The processors are the same, and I find virtualisation 80% speed of the host as long as I don't try and do 3D graphics on it.
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Blinx123 wrote:
Thank you guys. So maybe I´ll buy a AMIGA ONE sometime in the next year.
BTW: Why aren´t there new AMIGA ONEs sold? Should there be a AMIGA ONE XG in Micro ATX Format or something like this? I read about it on wikipedia.
It is a long story, but the jist of it is the supply of some
of the A1 components dried up. I do not recall which chip
nor from which company they came.
C Snyder
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@billchase
It is a long story, but the jist of it is the supply of some of the A1 components dried up.
Really? You mean that they would have continued to produce the hardware with defect chipset if they hadn't run out of some of the chips? Tell me it ain't so...
Well, I guess it makes sense. They did sell 3 different "AmigaONE" motherboards to people, all defective the same way (more or less). 4th wouldn't have made a difference.
Seriously now, my understanding is that they finally figured out that the northbridge they used (Articia) was hopelessly flawed. Instead of investing tons of money to new design with new northbridge (which wouldn't have sold more than couple of hundred units) they decided to pull the plug. Good move financially.
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@Legerdemain
If there had been hw available then upd#4 would have been the official os 4 release though! And rogue posted on aw.net that they are still doing bugfixing and polishing,and therefore i think that there will be new hw. Else i think they would have dropped the whole os by now.
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Who knows about legal implications? Maybe Hyperion is doomed to release the version for AmigaOne first - and with Eyetech dead in the water they can't release anything at all.
A smart move would've been to take advantage of the Mac platform - not to attack OS X, but to make use of modern hardware without the hassle of having to design it. Now the PPC's dead (in respect of an independent platform) and Hyperion would have to go x86 - no way this is gonna happen.
I've pretty much given up on AOS4. With every year that's spent in 'development' the number of people outside the community that might get interested drops from very small to even smaller. I'm pretty sure whatever future the Amiga has is called AROS.
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:horse:
beat that horse....
we should diss-own hyperion and amiga inc and move forward.
I am blown away by the fact that some people are still holding out hope for this! AMAZING! Who cares about some bad PPC motherboard in 2006? Yes we need to more to intel....no hyperion will not be able to pull it off, let's just call it like it is save some time and engery.
if you want a new amiga NOW consider the pegII a nice machice VERY amiga like. You can also run linux and OSX on that motherboard.
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@pierre
You on a campaigne for mos or something? Do you think they are still developing os4 for the a1's for fun? You're pretty amazing too. x86 have been discussed billions of times so why bother discuss that over again and again? I believe that hyperion will eventually release os4 final.
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fist sorry for the slight OT...
secondly:
yes I'm on a campaigne for things that are actualy good for the amiga. morphOS is VERY cool and you can buy one unlike the a1 thingy.
"Do you think they are still developing os4 for the a1's for fun? "
I am pretty sure they are developing OS4 as some type of hobby as they don't appear to have a very good plan... (amatures in the business field for sure, no I'm not dissing the coders!) Sad that they are in charge of the amigas future, shame!
x86 is the future! It will be talked about again. What's wrong with that. It makes sense to talk about something other than oldschool PPC chips, that's so yesterday!
maybe hyperion will release os4 maybe they won't who knows! Do you?
I did't realy care if hyperion ever releases os4, if they do I will check it out if they don't I won't care... its realy quite old at this point anyway. what should I write a love letter to hyperion telling they how wonderfull they are and that I will wait FOREVER for any crap they put out? Why genisi has delivered something cool to the amiga commmunity they deserve props for that, no?
@antique
"You're pretty amazing too." (antique)
I know I am amazing, thanks for telling me!
sorry if you can't handle my opinions, thats all they are.
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I believe that hyperion will eventually release os4 final.
well, they already have in everything but name only.
OS4 works just fine. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Yes, the BIG problem is the lack of HW to run it on for new users.
I have a peg, I like it, but if there was an A1 (or whatever it would be called) to run OS4, and I had the money to buy it, I'd want that too.
call me greedy :-D