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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Jose on July 19, 2006, 10:26:47 PM

Title: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 19, 2006, 10:26:47 PM
Hi. I thought when a card had some problem (as long as it wasn't fried I guess) it just wouldn't be recognized or would work badly. But today I finally took some time to try to install a PIV I won on eBay and the A4000D (the 4000T is waiting for a disks module to arrive...) stopped booting!!! The screen just stays dark grey. The IDE drive seems to try to start spinning a 2nd time but stops right away (as in the 1st). Jumpers are set to ZIII and I see nothing else that could affect it. Card is well pushed in (already also tested with a CV64 that works withoug pushing it into the zorro slot as much).... I also took off the Paloma and Concierto modules just in case... same result. Can't reflash the card as it doesn't boot at all, (floppy drive doesn't start clicking either...)

Any ideas ? :-(

Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: PhatAgnus on July 19, 2006, 11:44:31 PM
Try re-seating the PLCC chip on the PIV. Could have become jossled with shipping or worked itself loose from hot/cold contractions. My 2 pennies.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 20, 2006, 12:15:02 AM
No luck...
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 20, 2006, 10:03:35 AM
Ok, just an update:  Removing the two 8 pined chips next to the Zorro connector, as suggested on another thread, the thing boots again! But the PIV is not recognized.
So that means at least the FPGA is working:)
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Blade on July 20, 2006, 10:37:43 AM
Ok, this is probably very unlikely, but you don't have an A3640 Commo CPU Board
in this A4000, do you?
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 20, 2006, 10:42:52 AM
@Blade

Actually I do! Why ? It's a Rev 3.1 card.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Blade on July 20, 2006, 10:47:48 AM
Ah, well there you have found your Problem then ;)
Those two cards simply won't work together (other revisions of the 3640 do iirc, but not those particular ones)
So you should get either another cpu board, or don't use the PIV in this A4k.
I had the very same problem when my PPC Card died and I tried to replace it with an A3640. No chance to get it work.
the 3630 Board actually did, but hell was that sloooooow! (Had just a fresh Install of my newly bought OS 3.9 back then..
no fun! ;) )
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 20, 2006, 11:01:36 AM
@Blade
That would rule! But in my search I've seen some references to apparently working combinations of those 2 cards.

I'll of course try with a WarpEngine when I get home :-)
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Blade on July 20, 2006, 11:22:31 AM
Well, they might have used other Revisions of the CPU Board ;) Also, I just can tell from my personal
experience, and that was what I discoverd back then :) However, good luck (and hopefully the card is still
working :)) btw, I just found the thread with the advice of removing those chips near the zorro conector,
and it seems as there is also an A3640 involved... Another CPU Board might had helped here too :)
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Oli_hd on July 20, 2006, 12:55:04 PM
Just an FYI,
That 8 pin chip holds the instructions for the FPGA chip (The big black thing between the GPU and Zorro slot, if you remove it the FPGA doesnt know what to do, and as such does nothing.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: alexh on July 20, 2006, 12:56:57 PM
I have all the different A3640 cards (3.0, 3.1, 3.2) and they all work with my PIV.

Only thing is my 3.1 has an LC040
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: MastaTabs on July 20, 2006, 02:48:19 PM
If the card blocks the machine with the 8 pinners removed, its a sign that the FPGA is dead.

So just to check that its not. Remove them. Sure, the card wont work without them.

regs
MastaTabs
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Blade on July 20, 2006, 02:54:20 PM
Well as I said, I just can confirm my own experiences with the A3640 + PIV.
The (officaly) missing FPU might be just enough, also the fact that in some
(rare) cases a 3.1 rev board isn't exactly a 3.1 rev board.

However I have to admit that I am surprised that not more problems with this combo
are mentioned (ok I didn't probably google hard enough) however I think when
two exact combos (with my experince three) give the same non working result,
I guess we have at least a strong evidence here and the change of the cpu card
might be a good starting point :)
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: MastaTabs on July 20, 2006, 03:58:26 PM
I have no problems with a 3640 either with or without FPU. Well, its a rev. 3.2 card.

And its always a good idea to upgrade older 3640s to that revision.

regs
MastaTabs
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 20, 2006, 05:23:17 PM
Hi. I just tested without the 2 8 pin chips and also with the WarpEngine. The computer does boot with those chips removed. Strange enouph, if I plugged in my 4091 at the same time it wouldn't boot.
As for with the WarpEngine, pretty much same result, except the with the 3640 it seemed to try to boot 2 times, with the WE the screen changes tone of grey in around 2 or 3 seconds interval. I guess the WarpEngine is smarter and tries to boot constantly while the 3640 gives up at 2nd time.

@MastaTabs
Any chance you can check up the card for me ?
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Tahoe on July 20, 2006, 07:07:53 PM
You DO have a rev 11 buster; don't you?
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: alexh on July 20, 2006, 08:34:12 PM
He has to have a rev11 if he has a 4091
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Tahoe on July 20, 2006, 09:03:38 PM
Eh, the machine wouldn't boot with the A4091 installed...

EDIT: I might have a PIV flash chip laying around (the autoconfig one), but it might be a real dig to find it. Let me now if you need it. It's the small IC next to the PCI port, above the larger MACH one.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Mordo on July 20, 2006, 09:25:19 PM
If you have more than one of the PIV flash chips let me know. I've got a PIV in an A4000T that only works in Z2 mode. I was told that the onboard SCSI is not compatible with the PIV unles the PIV is revision 1.4. Incidently, I believe the 4091 causes issues with running the PIV in Z3 mode. Setting it toe Z2 mode may make this combo work.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: MastaTabs on July 21, 2006, 09:54:39 AM
You need an update of the PCI bridge if its not already rev. 4.

I can provide it if you like.

Actually the problem with the A4091 is related to a Buster bug. It is highly recommended to use a Buster rev. 11 with such a setup, means with DMA ZorroIII PICs.

regs
MastaTabs
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: zipper on July 21, 2006, 12:31:18 PM
Useful for A4000 owners:


A4000 Hardware Guide (http://wonkity.com/~wblock/a4000hard/main.html)

It's on Aminet,too.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 21, 2006, 05:17:39 PM
Update, this is getting weird...

Just tried a bunch of stuff...
The A4000 boots if I set the PIV to Z2 mode!!

[EDIT] But the card is NOT recognized


BUT:
1- The flicker fixer diplays nothing!!. The PIV boot menu never appears (yes, I have it connected to a VGA multiscan (>30hz) monitor too).
2- After installing Picasso96 software it says it can't create board context and after that it can't open PicassoIV.resource.
3- I tried to run P4info and P4FlashUpdate but both say PicassoIV card couln't be detected!!! :-o  :-o
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2006, 02:58:42 PM
Hi. I think I prefer tp not try returning the card (probaly very hard), specially considering I got it for a very good price with the Paloma and Concierto modules (I'd probaly get the money back if I sell the modules seperately on eBay).

So does anyone know of a good place that could repair it ?

Should I take Tahoe's offer on the flash chip and ask him to try to find it ? Or given the symptoms it's unlikely that's the problem ?
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2006, 08:46:38 PM
Not that it makes much difference but I just discovered that the card is actually never recognized. The ZIII device that appears is boards list is actually related to the WarpEngine (maybe the Scsi controler). So the card is never recognized, it hangs in ZIII mode but not in ZII mode.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: X-ray on July 22, 2006, 08:59:29 PM
@ Jose

A surefire way to test the card is give it to me. I have a PIV with Concierto and Paloma. If you send me your card I can test it in my A4KT if you like. I'll just take mine out and put yours in and see what happens.
Title: Re: Non booting A4000 when PicassoIV installed!!!
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2006, 09:20:19 PM
@X-ray
When the ports module for my A4000T arrives I'll also be able to test it there 8-) I have a Cybervision64 and A4001 that work well on the A4000D though...