Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Matt_H on May 07, 2003, 03:00:55 AM
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We all know that since Commodore went bust, mainstream developers have fled the platform in droves.
I've been thinking about some of the benefits though. Those of us that have stayed with the platform are probably some of the most self-reliant computer users out there. Where would we be today if we still relied on Commodore for everything? I think that most of the characteristics that (used to?) define the Amiga
community came about from mutual abandonment.
I think the average Amigan today knows far more about the internal workings of the platform than the average Amigan from 1994, even if it is the same person. So much more information has been made publicly available by now.
Opinions?
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I think the average Amigan today knows far more about the internal workings of the platform than the average Amigan from 1994, even if it is the same person. So much more information has been made publicly available by now.
Hmm.... Maybe. I think that was the case early on. (Say, maybe the average user in 1997 knew more than the average user in 1992.) But I think a lot of the real Amiga knowledge-holders have moved on to newer machines at this stage, either leaving the community, or dropping into the first of the three groups listed below...
Personally, I think all the remaining Amigans fall into one or more of the following three groups....
1) Reminiscers - People who used and loved the Amiga back in the day, and still have an interest in the community, if not the daily soap opera of Amiga Inc. These are your fans of hardware, and/or unique emulation solutions, like the Amithlon/Umilator. These users are the most knowlegable, but have probably forgotten half of it, by now.
2) Classic Gamers - people into retro gaming. Don't necessarily know much about Amiga, don't really care to, beyond booting the old games. May or may not have an A500, and probably looking for "ROMs", yet are confused when "Kickstart" versions are mentioned.
3) Trolls / Zealots - Need I say more? ;-) (Slips into asbestos suit)
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@ Ilwrath:
While I agree that your 3 groups do exist, where do active users fall?
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While I agree that your 3 groups do exist, where do active users fall?
Same catagory as the sasquatch? Mostly mythical, I believe. Really, even in the video production world, it's been a few years since I last serviced or even saw an Amiga in the wild. There are still a couple small shops that use them for a few lone jobs, but mostly they either sit unused or have been sold off long ago. I honestly can't imagine using one as a day-to-day computer anymore. Just the lack of a serious browser alone makes it difficult to use. Heck, I don't even use my 4000 to come here!... and I'm the only one left out of the group of people I knew from the local C= group who still has an Amiga set-up, instead of boxed and in storage.
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Hi,
I think most people who claim they know Amiga are really a bunch of PC or Winblows users, I bet that most so called Amiga users today use PC's to surf the internet and the only reason they stay here is to see if the soap opera will continue.
FACE IT
The Amiga is dead.
Gateway killed it.
Mr. Bill M. don't even know where to start to bring it back.
I enjoy my A1000, A500, CD32, A1200, and A3000 but usually use a PC with winblows to surf the net. I started playing with Linux a short time ago to see how it is but still continue to use winblows for major surfing.
Why don't I use the Amiga, quite simple, no longer enough power to surf with.
Do I want the Amiga to come back?
Is bill gates a billionare.
Does Dolly Parton have big boobs?
Does bill clinton smoke cigars?
AND
Does Monica like cigars?
bye
Smerf
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And I think there is a fourth group of Amiga users, people like me.
I used to own Amiga back in 90's, sold the parts somewhere around 1999 because the mobo died. After that, bought a PC, ran Windows, BeOS and Linux with, tired to find the same feeling which I had with computing earlier. No chance, so I sold the PC and bought PS2. Thinking something like "I'll wait for new Macs to come out" etc.
Then I got a job in IT, compay provided a laptop running W2k. Ok, I can read mail, browse the web with. Do some trivial tasks. Tweak the OS? Not much. Patch the OS? Of course, with security patches and tons of 3rd party software (Windowsblinds etc). But still, it's not Amiga. And it hasn't got the same feeling. The feel of ease.
Now I have A4000 with CS MKII 060 + Voodoo and stuff. And I'm damn happy I bought them. All of sudden, using a computer seems to be fun, something that you wait for. I'm trying to get a telnettable BBS running at the moment, after that comes a web server and maybe a ftp server. Why am I doing these things with Amiga instead of PC which didn't cost me anything? Because it's fun with Amiga, and only Amiga makes it possible.
Keep the flag up, you newer if there's more people like me, tired of Intel world, tired of reading security holes in Windows, tired of hearing what the operating system does behind there back. Ok, there's other systems besides Windows, but I'm talking from my point of view.
And of course, I'm writing this with Miggy.
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I still use my 1200 all of the time, even for
e - mail and "basic" surfing. Sure, it's
limited it MANY ways...but it's fun, and I'm
still surprised at how much it actually can
accomplish. I like the little guy...
Realistically though I very much need a new
PC...or maybe even a MAC. And of course I'll
be buying a nice Peg2. ;)
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Same catagory as the sasquatch? Mostly mythical, I believe.
Hey cool! I'm mythical! I'll have to ring my mum, she'll be so proud :-D
In my flat I have an Amiga 4000, an Amiga 1500, an Archimedes 4000, and 3 C64s. Thats it. No PC, no Mac. I have broadband internet, and my Amigas and Archie are all linked via ethernet. I use my A4000 for IRC, Web, e-mail, some games and programming. Before the paula died, i used to watch demos on it, make music and play old games, too.
I use my A1500 for old games, writing music. I never feel like i'm "missing out", because I thoroughly enjoy using my Amigas.
I'm not a blind zealot though; I have developed for DOS, Windows, and (to a much lesser extent) Linux. I have used MacOS 9 and X. I do KNOW what I am missing, but I don't miss it, if you see what I mean.
We do exist, you know :-D
I mean, what about all those Mediators sold? Do you really think people tower up their Amigas, add Voodoo's, soundcards, tv cards, USB etc., and spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds, and then not actually use it? Come on, that doesn't make any sense!
I'm not saying the Amiga is still as alive today as it was 5 years ago, thats nonsense, but I think there is evidence to suggest that active users still exist.
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I'm 1/2 thru my A1200-re-boxing project, which as I explained to someone at work is a pretty pointless task (said person was confused as to why i had just blown £40 at Maplin on connectors and screws).
New clothes do not a powerful computer make, and I know that my A1200 wont be any better in his new house (albeit with the addition of a CD-ROM).
So why am I doing it ? Because I love my Amiga. I have always loved Amigas, I work with PCs day in and day out, from power-desktops to massive server rooms full of the latest 1U rackmount servers, and none of them have the feel that the Amiga does.
I can't explain it better than that, it just is.
-Jar.
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@redcougar
absolutely and wholeheartedly agree with you.
I do my surfing (when not at work ;-) ) on a towered A1200 with a turbo1230 lite board. yeah, its a bit cramped (only 8MB fast ram) for surfing, but if its not too graphically intensive its fine. YAM2.0 serves me for my emailing needs, IBrowse 2.3 is a vast improvement on 2.2 (and is a lot more fun to use than Internet Exploding and Nutscrape).
for my Wordpro needs, Wordworth (6 ? 7 ? cant remember - its on a CD :-) ) suits me fine. I have never got to grips with any of the Amiga Spreadsheets like I have M$ Excel, but thats one of the few M$ products that doesnt irritate the cr@p out of me.
in fact the only time I really have problems, is if my mother sends me some jpegs of my daughters that 2MB chip RAM can't handle (ie: 1600x1200).
My eldest is juuusst getting to grips with the mouse and PPaint (keeps her amused for ages!)
and since I got patience (the one with about 15 games) I have trouble turfing me missus off the damn thing !
I still enjoy games too. even occasionally buying one !
I bought Genetic Species (dont play it much - 8MB Fast Ram sometimes means AHI doesnt want to make noises) and managed to track down a copy of OnEscapee (definitely top drawer - in the mould of Flashback).
I second the 4th category - people who need detox after spending their working day on Windoze etc.
and no - linux/unix doesnt cut it either - far too slow (or rather unresponsive) even on stonking hardware.
I think MacOS (in its X incarnation) is going the same way - so for people like me, there is only one alternative that will properly satisfy - AmigaOS.
if it never materialises (although it doesnt look like going the way of the Spectrum) I will probably get a cheapo Power Mac, but its not a patch on even an old 1200 really.
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@Matt_H
Sorry Matt, but I couldn't disagree with you more if I tried. Hang on, let me give it a shot... hnnnnnngh.
Nope, no good.
While your point about Amiga users becoming self reliant is certainly a valid one, I think Commodore's demise was the worst possible thing that's happened the Amiga. We became self-reliant out of neccessity and that's not always a good thing. We no longer had a central nervous system from which everything was controlled. A good thing? Not neccessarily.
With Commodore, at least, we had direction.
True, that direction was often confused and sometimes meandered aimlessly but ultimately, I believe, it was headed in the right direction. All hardware and software decisions were made by Commodore. This obviously tied us down as we were at the mercy of whatever the management decided to incorporate (or not) in any new models - but again, we were all rowing in the same direction. We may not have often agreed with that direction, but it was a unified move. We were all in the same boat.
The biggest problem with the Amiga since Commodore's demise has been the attempt to move the Amiga from custom hardware to non-custom hardware. The market has pulled itself in ten different directions without strong leadership. There's been a lot of duplication of effort, split energy and of course a huge amount of in-fighting with everyone threatening to sue everyone else. It's one big sorry mess.
While Commodore may have made some spectacularly bad decisions, I think they were the only hope that the Amiga had of making this difficult transition from closed to open hardware. Whatever the future for the Amiga might have been, I think they were best candidates to take it forward to that future.
Looking back at magazines from 1994, it's interesting to see how many people whooped for joy at Commodore's fall. The future of the Amiga would be brighter without them, they predicted, and the machine would gain in strength from the "community".
Instead we've had various vultures circling the machine picking off the parts it wants while the rest of us bicker about Amiga One cases and whether or not OS 4.0 will be out in time for Christmas.
Per-leese.
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In my flat I have an Amiga 4000, an Amiga 1500, an Archimedes 4000, and 3 C64s. Thats it. No PC, no Mac.
Gah! Figures! You really can find all kinds on the internet. ;-)
We do exist, you know
Hmm... Well, at least one exists that read this thread. ;-)
I mean, what about all those Mediators sold? Do you really think people tower up their Amigas, add Voodoo's, soundcards, tv cards, USB etc., and spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds, and then not actually use it? Come on, that doesn't make any sense!
I'm not saying Amigas aren't used anymore. My 4000 still logs a few hours a month... Just that it is a very rare case for it to be someone's primary computer. It's like any other functional hobby someone might have. Take cars, for example... Lots of people collect, restore, tinker, and show old cars. But rarely is that hobby car the vehicle chosen to drive up to the mega-mart on a rainy day.
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@Smerf
Agreed about BillM there, no clue how to save the platform. Worst
part was, at a time I tried to sell them on the plan to do it.
Ah well, such is life.
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@Ilwrath:
Hmm... Well, at least one exists that read this thread.
Well, two by now ;-)
And I guess that the several hundred people that are usually buying Hyperion Games are active users too. Don't forget the 600 Pegasos customers.
Not that much of a crowd, but it's a start.
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I just spent a sh*t load of money on upgrading my 1200,i dont own another computer and i planto buya mediator.So as far as im concernd it does what i want it to do.
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I had my trusty A1200 since 1992 and used it on a nigh on daily basis since. I have a PC for web design/office/audio capture.
Everything else I do on my 1200T.
Which pigeon hole do I fit?
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Hrmm...
I think commodores demise thwacked the Amiga platform a good one on the chin personally. I'm a hobbiest. A minority in computing these days, but still here. I'm too young to reminisce (nice? nis? I may be american, but we all know that doesn't really help your English) about old games I played as a youth. I like having fun with computers. Sure I hope that my Amiga 2000 can serve a useful purpose when I'm done with it, but I don't do it to have a new web machine. Danged expensive things to get new stuff for, almost everything is for the A3000 and ups too, but fun. I probably know more about how this amiga works than how my PC works, and I care more too. It is mroe fun, but the fuzzy B&W of the composite TV screen hurts my eyes, so I haven't had the all nighter kind of fun yet. Its just... more fun the windows and less uncooperative than Linux.
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And what category do I fit into? I use my PC to play the new games and surf the web. I use my A1200's to play old games ,using PPaint to edit pictures, use ProTracker to create music, and I just started out with Photogenics to see what that program can do.
I still buy Amiga games regulary from an internet site, and I was overjoyed when I found Covert Action. :)
My next paycheck probably goes to a turbocard if I can't find a new A1200 rig with CD-Rom for sale somewhere cheap.
So.. I would call myself an active Amiga user...
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I'm not saying Amigas aren't used anymore. My 4000 still logs a few hours a month...
Hmmm... well...
Original question:
While I agree that your 3 groups do exist, where do active users fall?
Ilwrath's answer:
Same catagory as the sasquatch? Mostly mythical, I believe
I class "active user" as anyone who uses their Amiga to perform a task on a regular basis, be it email, web browsing, programming, writing music, or whatever.
But, i'd say that the vast majority of people who bought Mediator kit for their Amiga's would be active users, simply because they're still spending cash on it, and you don't by a Mediator for an Amiga that you only use to play Sensible Soccer once a month!
So, I think you've classed quite a lot of the people who replied to this thread, most Mediator/Promethius/G-Rex purchasers, and quite a few other people I know personally as mythical :-D
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You hit the nut with the cracker! Got to have the feeling. And I`d like to get that feeling back with the old A1000 I picked up a year ago but I can`t find a Kickstart disk to see if the machine is roadworthy. Yes, Amiga`s are amazing but until I get Kickstarted I`ll have to get that feeling with my European release C128D and good old GEOS 2.0. Only wish AOL was still Quantum Link. Ted Turner probably does too...
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Nuklear wrote:
Only wish AOL was still Quantum Link. Ted Turner probably does too...
AOL was originally CVC, who offered Atari 2600 games over the phoneline. It was a spectactular failure; shortly after its inception, the 1984 videogame crash occurred, and who would want to pay $1.00 to download a game you could only play 8 times when carts were in the shops for $0.50? :-D
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Agafaster wrote:
I think MacOS (in its X incarnation) is going the same way - so for people like me, there is only one alternative that will properly satisfy - AmigaOS.
Not really on topic, but the 'trick' to having a stable OS- as X, XP, Linux, and *BSD are supposed to be- is that you can goof off with it even after fighting it all day. How well it works in practice is a tossup- most XP headaches will be over spyware and the usual Microsoft issues, but with any of the others, you can probably fire up xgalaga safely even if the rest of the system is hosed. ;-) Same went for Amiga, of course- get sick of debugging your startup-sequence, and there's always that Sensible Soccer disk to boot from..
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Um, we lost a lot from Commodore's demise, but we have gained a Free OpenSource AmigaOS clone and freedom from custom hardware (shame, but important nowadays.). :-)