Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Marky_D_Sahd on May 06, 2003, 04:30:59 AM
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Still trying to justify an $800 motherboard. What sort of productivity software is in the offing? Games that aren't ports of old games for other OS's? What's worth $800?
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dude just buy the thing.
i would if i had the cash...
winblows is certainly very usable but i scream at it on a daily basis.
i long for a supahdupah amiga to play with..
but then again, the grass always looks greener from the other side..?? :-P
i still want one. just cant buy one, want os4 tho for sure, even if all i'll do is tidy up my icons.
oh and watch divX's n play MP3s, DPAINT, Lightwave, imagefx etc etc... now that i think of it, theres a lot i would like to do but im stuck in this PC world :-(
where'd that amithlon go..??
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you can play late 1980's video games at 10 times the speed they where meant to be played at!!!! imagine playing PacMan at 10 times the speed??!?!??!?!?!?!? are they insane man!!! no... their not insane...their genuis!!!!
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well nothing is going to justify $800 for a motherboard with those sorry and outdated specs... os4 might be cool as long as its not just a rehash of 3.x. I wouldnt expect any amiga app software on the level of photoshop or MSoffice, but on the other hand ports of decent free software.. mozilla etc.. should be possible. honestly i wouldnt risk putting that $ into a system that might bomb (same with morphos or whatever), unless you got more $ where that came from to buy a decent pc/mac etc.
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Still trying to justify an $800 motherboard. What sort of productivity software is in the offing? Games that aren't ports of old games for other OS's? What's worth $800?
If you are this hesistant over buying it I think you shouldn't. Amiga One and OS4 just try to bring an updated Amiga to Amiga-fans. It is the first step and we can only expect new software to appear for it some time after OS4 has been released. Just wait a bit longer until AOS5 is out and application are coming in. In the meantime you buy that PC and when that one is outdated (shouldn't be much more than a year :-)) some true apps for the next generation of Amiga's might have appeared.
If you buy it now, while you think it is expensive and on top of that there's no new software for it, you're not going to like it and you're probably not the kind of person the A1 and OS4 is targetted at at this time.
I think the people buying an AOne should be completely in love with anything Amiga and/or want to help build a future for this machine by writing software for it.
Personally I can't wait for AOS4 to be finished, because I'll buy an Amiga One then. Although I need AOS4.2 for Amiga-Anywhere to be included, since that's what I'm currently developing for.
Just my 2 cents.
Onno
PS: Couldn't help myself with that PC outdated in a year crap.. not trying to start a flamewar... I've been working on the same PC for well over a year although I had to add a new processor, new memory and a new video-card to keep up to date a PC can INDEED work for you much longer than a year :-P
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Other than getting away from wintel you can install linux on it, then mac on linux and\or WINE which will give you access to a pretty big portion of Windows\linux\Mac gear.
Later on you also have the advantage of having OS4 and can move across to it at a steady pace instead of one big lump like I am gunna have to when I change to it.
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@IonDeluxe:
Sorry, but WINE Is Not an Emulator (http://www.winehq.com/?page=faq#Is_Wine_an_emulator)
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Marky, why don't you leave your $800 in your bank, and forget about it all until OS4 is out, and see for yourself before you buy.
Mind you, you obviously want to want one :-D. What do you do with your Amiga at the moment?
@Mips
I really don't understand your attitude. Sure, if you don't want an AmigaONE, or OS4, don't buy it, but you seem absolutely commited to make sarcastic comments and slam this project in every single thread where it is mentioned. Its unconstructive, tiresome, and pointless. It seems to be you and Paul_Gadd always coming out with stuff like "The AmigaONE is such a shoddy piece of utter crap and if you buy it you must be a total idiot", and things like that. Grow up.
And no, i'm not complaining about people excersizing their right to explain the bad points of AmigaONE or OS4, just the manor in which you seem to do it.
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But seriously, will the new AmigaOS be able to run the old games (as ADF's I presume.) or not? There is frightenly little information regarding the emulation part in AOS4...
(yes, I could and will shell out $800 on a machine just for the new OS and OLD games. That I can program it and other things is just a nice bonus.. :D )
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no I'm just joking... I actually think OS4 might be good... 800$ is quite a steep price though... but there is always pacman :P... if/when OS4 comes out and runs on my Pegasos2(when the Pegasos2 comes out) ... I'll be glad to pay 100+ dollars to run OS4 on my Pegasos alongside MOS...
and seriously... think about pacman at 10 times native speed...come on ... thats gonna be insane :P
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Desolator wrote:
But seriously, will the new AmigaOS be able to run the old games (as ADF's I presume.) or not?
On the whole, no. OS4 doesn't emulate the custom chipset. Of course, if you are running it on a Cyberstorm, the custom chipsets are still there, but the 68k will be a JIT emulation on top of the PowerPC; so you get perfect custom chipset functionality (from the actual chips), and everything gets a kick up the ass (speedwise).
The AmigaONE version will be for retargetable programs, for example; YAM, IBrowse, Voyager, AWeb, AmIRC, Photogenics, Art Effect, ImageFX, Perfect Paint, Personal Paint, SoundFX, Audio Evolution, Digibooster, Amiga Writer, Final Writer, Wordworth, Payback, Crossfire II, Aqua, (and much more).
(of course I can't say for definate which will work, but theres no reason to suspect any of those above won't work, along with thousands of other programs).
Of course, there WILL be new software for OS4. How much, and how useful is anyones guess, and I don't blame anyone for being pessimistic about it, but I like to think positively. Although the situation is better for me than most users; I'll be poistively on cloud nine just having an enhanced and extended PowerPC native AmigaOS4 to develop for; regardless of its commercial success. So, really, the decision is easier for me than most.
There is frightenly little information regarding the emulation part in AOS4...
You'll get a JIT 68k emulator. Of course, theres nothing to stop someone writing custom chipset emulation software later.
(yes, I could and will shell out $800 on a machine just for the new OS and OLD games. That I can program it and other things is just a nice bonus.. :D )
Well, the old games will probably require UAE. But, because of design decisions that were made by both Commodore and software engineers in the "good old days" that (usually) made perfect sense at the time, you have to lose some degree of compatibility to go forward. Thats just life.
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@Mips
OK thats cool. I'm just fed up of people shouting down others for their choices, rather than making constructive criticism; it really doesn't help anyone, and it happens far too much in our little "community"...
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Not to rain on my own parade, but most of the games I really loved (CinemaWare stuff, worms, etc) is available on Game Boy, system cost :100.00) If all I wanted was a really cool game machine, I could buy one for a whole lot less, and have enough money left over to buy a cheap Dell system. I REALLY love my Amiga, but the available word processors are lacking, the web browsers, though really cool, don't have the features nessesary to survive on the internet today, and we seem to have lost most of the best graphics software. I might be using my migger a lot now, but what about next year? It's not just a matter of speed (in fact, not a matter of speed at all, to me,) but a matter of functionality. Will this be worth it?
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@Marky
A year ago I would have been screaming BUY BUY. Now concidering all the delays and no idea at all of a release date I'd think wait. If OS4 comes out it would be easier to justify.
In the meantime you should really check out Peggy/MOS. The more I use mine the more I fall in love.
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A year ago, I was screaming "Buy! Buy!" Heck, I felt that way six months ago (Read some of my posts) It's just that all of the developments and developers that seemed to be waiting for the green light seem to have moved on. Getting them back doesn't really seem likely. Maybe the Amiga really is dead this time. (The last time, the community saved it. This time, there doesn't seem to be much community left.)
As for considering a Peggy, I had heretofore thought that the Amiga name and community would be a better draw for developers (especially those in the community). Now, I'm not so sure. Is the outlook on that side of the coin really that much better? (I mean obviously, it's out and it works, but does it have a future?)
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@Tickly
Nonsense, i have never insulted anyone who has got / or is buying an AmigaONE.
The AmigaONE is way to overpriced and compared to other boards out there it is pathetic when you can buy something which is better for a fraction of the price.
Selling hardware these days to normal home users at that price will do more damage than good imo especially for a tiny platform trying to get its feet back on the ground.
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Considering all the circumstances, it would be unrealistic to expect the AmigaONE to be any cheaper. This is business. Eyetech are not charging a relatively huge amount of money because they are greedy bastards. If there were millions of potential customers, rather than a few thousand (or even less), the prices would be more affordable. The price of the AmigaONE -will- fall eventually. Initially it is only for those who really must have it, or have a lot of money to throw at things.
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@Marky
Depends on what you want to do, and if the machine has possibilities of becoming successfull.
If you're used to AOS, and use stuff like DOS scripts, etc. and like the great multitasking of the OS, and specially if you like to program it, wich for many people is the main reason, I say go for it.
I suggest waiting till OS4 is out, and know other''s experiences first though.
You said:
"...and we seem to have lost most of the best graphics software"
Hmm, I don't think that would be true. Besides being able to use virtually almost all retargetable applications that exist today with emulation, it's been said that a few of the better apps will be ported natively for OS4. Stuff like ImageFX, Pagestream, Real3D(!!) (wich will/is being ported by Hyperion). There was also some cool sound app announced for OS4. Ok not many(thought there are more I didn't mention), but I guess the best of each kind are in there. Many will appear also. And you can run all existing PPC stuff.
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A dream fulfilled! :-)
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Piru wrote:
@IonDeluxe:
Sorry, but WINE Is Not an Emulator (http://www.winehq.com/?page=faq#Is_Wine_an_emulator)
I did not say it was.
I did get it wrong though, WINE is for x86...I missed that part.
@Marky
Perhas your vest bet would be to try an elbox solution.I THINK they are going to be OS4 compatible, I guess you will have to ask them.
It will cost a little money, but will provide some extra juice for your miggy, and extra functionality.
If I am right about this, you get some extra power, OS4 when it comes out, and get to keep the larger portion of that $800 in the bank while you watch and see what happens.Then you will be in a far better position to judge the correct way to go for you. :)
Anyway, check it out at www.elbox.com
P.S. I think they are also developing something new.No-one will talk about it, but this only serves to re-inforce my opinion.
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Marky_D_Sahd wrote:
Still trying to justify an $800 motherboard. What sort of productivity software is in the offing? Games that aren't ports of old games for other OS's? What's worth $800?
Personally I'd say leave your money in the bank and see what develops. If you were 100% certain you would have ordered already, and if your not - then waiting and seeing the goods may prevent you later heartache.
If the money is absolutely burning a hole in your pocket - go talk to a non-tech loved one (I usually discuss these things with my wife -- a total non-tech / no-bull$hit straight shooter if ever there was one) and they may help you put it in perspective.
In my case it was:
I want to get an A1.
Oh, what OS does it run?
None yet -- well Linux.
We have 3 machines running Linux already. Why do you need another?
Hmmm - well its an Amiga.
Will it replace your other Amiga?
Hmm, ah, no. It doesn't have Video Toaster.
Where will you put it? You still havent finished building your study/edit suite - and your workspace is already cluttered...
Ahm.....
$1000 eh? Tell you what - you can do that...... BUT you can't go to Sundance or Sturges.
(...... heavy thought in silence...... this really is a big desicion.....)
Tell you what, ask me again in six months - if you still want one then, and it's released, we'll talk about it.
After that it made me think 'do I REALLY want one right now?' and 'she's right - what AM I going to do with it before OS4 comes out' - and even after that....
(she co-signs all our checks - and she really is down to earth.... no Ami/Peg/Whatever for 6 months).
Siggy.
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Tickly wrote:
The AmigaONE version will be for retargetable programs, for example; YAM, [snip] (and much more).
(of course I can't say for definate which will work, but theres no reason to suspect any of those above won't work, along with thousands of other programs).
One can get a rough guess checking out which softwares run on the Pegasos/MorphOS. OS4 may be slightly more/less compatible, but roughly the same will run without problems.
An application being RTG is not a guarantee - in order to run on the AmigaONE it's a requirement that it doesn't bang the underlying Amiga hardware at all. (not only gfx, but every tiny bit included) Hovewer, compatibility will slightly increase with time (bugs and issues fixed), as well as more and more native apps will appear.
The less you expect, the more pleasant the surprise will be :-)
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Marky_D_Sahd wrote:
Now, I'm not so sure. Is the outlook on that side of the coin really that much better? (I mean obviously, it's out and it works, but does it have a future?)
Both solutions have a somewhat solid short range, and a blurry long range future. The short range future for the AmigaONE includes OS4.x versions (it requires a functioning AInc though, and plans going as scheduled), the new Warp3D, new AmigaONE mobos - for the Pegasos the MorphOS 1.x versions, Jungle, the Pegasos II.
The long range plans are for the AmigaONE are OS5 with AmigaDE(?) and sandbox OS4 compatibility(?), on the Pegasos Q/Box(?) and A/Box compatibility(?).
I see for both a nice future. (Many many wars and destruction as well tho) To tell which one is the better on the long run one has to be a wizard :-)
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A side note, maybe only for myself. IMHO to have two alternatives is a good thing, if one remembers how the development of WarpOS halted when the rival PowerUP's development stopped - regardless of the damage done, and the divided PPC Amiga community. So, despite that I have already chosen the Pegasos and happy with my decision, I'd like to see many AmigaONE/OS4 people around. :-) So I say go for it!
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IonDeluxe wrote:
>Perhas your best bet would be to try an elbox
>solution.
>...keep the larger portion of that $800 in the
>bank
The price difference here will actually be
negligible after buying the busboard, graphics
card, PPC card(?) and OS4.
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Folks... It's a pretty safe bet that any decent software written for Linux will be ported to A1/OS4. The advantage? It's an Amiga. Old apps? Chipset software emulation will be done as a quick fix... And I'm sure Jens at Individual Computers will come up with a flipper card for a hardware solution. He has a nasty tendancy of doing things like that :-P
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There is not much difrence between pegasos and amigaone prices from the pegasos web site features of morph os are very small im not suprised they got a beta version with the boards they sell The amiga one with os 4 has much better features i myself would only want a full os not a beta like with the pegasos .if cost is to much for you buy a pc. I like all the capacitors on the pegasos cpu module right next to the cpu where they will fail due to drying out from the heat just like the power supply in my patriot mini pc .If any board fails it will be the pegasos not the a1 which is a pop based motherboard desighned by the massive ibm . :-)
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Dr_Righteous wrote:
Folks... It's a pretty safe bet that any decent software written for Linux will be ported to A1/OS4. The advantage? It's an Amiga. Old apps? Chipset software emulation will be done as a quick fix... And I'm sure Jens at Individual Computers will come up with a flipper card for a hardware solution. He has a nasty tendancy of doing things like that :-P
Thanks! That is really very helpful! REALone Amiga? Opera? Mmmmmmmmm. If this is true, good days are indeed ahead!
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I know that SuperBase4 is being worked on. That's a good program. Also PageStream, the desktop publishing program is coming available.
Regards,
Bob
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@siggy
JESUS CHRIST!
Talk about hen pecked... it's clear to me who's wearing the trousers
in that household.
If you want an AmigaOne buy one. Don't ask permission from your
wife, what are you Dennis Thatcher?
:-D
If you already have three machines running Linux then your setup is a
little out of balance isn't it.
I don't see any harm in owning a machine with Windows (even though I
only have an Amiga) and there's no harm in liking Windows.
We in the Amiga community shouldn't still be "Boo hiss Windows"
because from what I hear WinXP is very stable.
From what I've read of this thread the software support for AmigaOne
is rubbish, but then so too was the support for the Playstation2 when
it first came out. PS2 just had some fireworks game and a few generic
shoot 'em ups.
Whoever is now holding the power, whether it be Hyperion or KMOS or
wherever things went, they need to come out of the closset and make it
clear what exactly is going on.
Things have gone disturbingly quiet since those reassuring days of
regular announcements from Amiga.com/Bill McEwen.
It would be beneficial to the community if Eyetech found a huge
contract in industry for these Micro-AmigaOne motherboards so that
they can be mass produced and sold to the community for maybe $400 or
less like the A500 was initially.
I'll wait until AmigaOS4 has created a stir in the press before
deciding to buy an AmigaOne, I'll never go down the Pegasos route, so
here's hoping it's more than just a Workbench overhaul with pretty new
icon set.
;-)