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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Entertainment => Topic started by: X-ray on June 29, 2006, 03:17:41 PM
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Well I am a big Catherine Tate fan. As far as I am concerned, that is second only to Smith and Jones in terms of pure comic genius. I am waiting for the Smith and Jones DVD to be released.
Anyway, I bought the Catherine Tate DVD series 1 for my sister in the US. I sent it over and she tells me it doesn't play. According to her it has this black and white venetian blinds effect. Now that sounds to me like a PAL/NTSC problem, but here is the deal: when I was there last year I bought my folks a brand new TV, DVD, and VCR player. I researched the DVD player very carefully before I chose it. I made sure it could play anything: any region, any disc. Am I right in saying that this can't be a region problem, because the disc does play. Is there something I can tell her to try? I have already suggested that she tries it on the PC. I checked the disc here before I sent it and I know it is fine because it played here at home.
I thought that sort of problem only happened with tapes...
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/Lauren.jpg)
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Getting her to test it on the pc is the first priority.
The dvd has probably been encoded to PAL.
I'll take a grab of my NLE to show you what I mean.
Screeny (http://www.am-hgv-resources.co.uk/TheSkip/NTSC.jpg)
Region is only concerned with copyright. It has nothing (afaik) to do with output ..ie : NTSC, PAL, SECAM etc.
Hope this is of assistance to you.
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@ The Editor
Ja, I'll see what happens when she tries the PC. I hope she gets it to play on the PC because as far as I can tell no NTSC versions exist.
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@X-ray
What DVD player did you get?
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The_Editor wrote:
Getting her to test it on the pc is the first priority.
The dvd has probably been encoded to PAL.
...
DVD's are never PAL/NTSC/SECAM encoded. Technically speaking, PAL/NTSC/SECAM refer to the color encoding schemes for color analogue video.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
DVD's are never PAL/NTSC/SECAM encoded. Technically speaking, PAL/NTSC/SECAM refer to the color encoding schemes for color analogue video.
I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong. First of all PAL, NTSC and SECAM differ not only in color information but also in frame/field rates and frame/field size. DVDs are definitely encoded to either PAL or NTSC. In fact DVD are basically MPEG2 streams in D1 format, though lesser formats are supported in the DVD spec. DVDs base format is what we call D1, D1 resolution in NTSC is 720x480 with 29.97 frames per second, PAL D1 on the other hand is 720x576 with 25 frames per second. The description above is the classic PAL DVD playing on a NTSC player, there is basically too large of frames and too few for what the player wants. There are dual mode DVD players available, but either this one isnt one, or its one of the ones that doesnt autoswitch.
-Tig
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Thankyou Tigger.
Either you already knew or you took the time to look at the frame rate etc in the right hand box of the settings in my screeny.
:-)
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@Tigger
Actually you're wrong. The color encoding schemes can be quite independant of the number of lines and refresh rate (ever heard of 'PAL 60' ?).
It just happens to be coincidence that nearly all countries that use PAL color encoding for TV also use 50/625, and all that use NTSC use 60/525.
DVD uses MPEG 2 compression with a YUV color model. Because it's digital it has nothing to do with PAL/NTSC (the color encoding systems), however, it is common for
DVD producers to use the terms PAL and NTSC to refer to the different resolution and refresh rates, presumably out of laziness.
I hope that clears things up.
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Hi,
seems more to be a DVD player problem.
It seems like she have a PAL M/NTSC 3.58 Player, not a simple NTSC player.
So the disc is detected as PAL and setted to PAL M 60 Hz.
I suppose that her TV set can't handle anything else than NTSC, and that NTSC and PAL use the same négative monochrome carry signal, she can see it on B&W.
This is similar to what happen with PAL "modded" PSx1 in composite mode.. the RGB cable was the solution (it brings ARCARDE @T HOME Vidéo quality ;-) )
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@ All
This is the player click (http://bargainoffers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=165)
As you can see it should play any DVD. I haven't heard back from my sister yet but I am wondering why it plays like that...
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Looking at that player it should be just a case of changing the output to be NTSC. There's usually something in the prefs to keep it on NTSC permanently instead of Multi or PAL.
The TV can't handle PAL, but the player should output PAL as NTSC easily.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
It just happens to be coincidence that nearly all countries that use PAL color encoding for TV also use 50/625, and all that use NTSC use 60/525.
Its not a coincidence, its an artifact of the power source and the color information in the country, you are acting as if they resolution was decided independently, it most definitely wasn't.
DVD uses MPEG 2 compression with a YUV color model.
Which part of MPEG2 D1 streams did you not understand?
Because it's digital it has nothing to do with PAL/NTSC (the color encoding systems), however, it is common for
DVD producers to use the terms PAL and NTSC to refer to the different resolution and refresh rates, presumably out of laziness.
No because they are playing it on NTSC or PAL TVs. Digital cable and digital satellites TV also arent analog, but digital, but are still broadcast in a form that is viewed as PAL or NTSC formats. DVRs the same. As for the Pal 60 format you talked about, or the PAL I, PAL N, etc all of them are based on different frame rates, sizes because of local conditions, this basically proves my point not yours. The same with the Japanese version of NTSC. In addition, understand NTSC started out as a monochrome format at 60 Fields, and 525 lines (not all viewable), there was no color, so implying that NTSC only has to do with color is silly, it was a monochrome spec (adopted in 1941), we later added the color carrier wave with NTSC II, and of course now with NTSC III (which was adopted due to digital cable switchers in the 1980s.
I hope that clears things up.
No, it looks like you just were throwing mud. DVDs are sold as PAL and NTSC formats for a reason, even D-VHS is sold in PAL and NTSC formats unfortunately. With Blu-Ray and HD DVD we are finally getting away from multiple formats, but until then its important to see which format is supported on the labels.
-Tig
-Tig
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Its probably defaulted to PAL DVD, I've got a similar model and I have to pick PAL on a MENU to play PAL DVDs on my NTSC TV.
-Tig
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I'm finishing my DVE product for Newteks video toaster, since it does both PAL and NTSC, those numbers are beat into my head at that moment :).
-Tig
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@ All
Thanks, that seems logical, I'll tell my sister to try to change the settings on the DVD player. I know if I was there I would have the problem licked soon enough...but you know women :-P
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Its not a coincidence, its an artifact of the power source and the color information in the country, you are acting as if they resolution was decided independently, it most definitely wasn't.
Actually, I'm not. I wonder where you get that idea!
PAL is a tweak of NTSC (color). Do you suppose that the phase is reversed every alternate line _only_ for 50Hz countries? Hmmm.. why do that? No, the color systems are independant of refresh rates & number of scan lines.
Which part of MPEG2 D1 streams did you not understand?
Well, according to what I've read D1 doesn't exactly define a certain resolution.
As for the Pal 60 format you talked about, or the PAL I, PAL N, etc all of them are based on different frame rates, sizes because of local conditions, this basically proves my point not yours
But that IS my point.
My point all along was that PAL is independant of resolution/framerate. And you argued against me, and now you're arguing exactly what I was arguing - contradicting yourself, mind you - and now telling me that I was wrong??
In addition, understand NTSC started out as a monochrome format at 60 Fields, and 525 lines (not all viewable), there was no color, so implying that NTSC only has to do with color is silly, it was a monochrome spec (adopted in 1941), we later added the color carrier wave with NTSC II,
I know. I'm using 'NTSC' in the context of NTSC Vs PAL, as in the differences in color signal (obviously, PAL only existed after color NTSC).
DVDs are sold as PAL and NTSC formats for a reason, even D-VHS is sold in PAL and NTSC formats unfortunately.
Hang on, didn't you just 'agree with' my point about color signals (ie NTSC Vs PAL) as being independant of resolution/framerate?
Anyway, that doesn't mean that what's recorded on the media (especially in the case of digital) is PAL or NTSC. It's really neither.
Geeeezz...
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iamaboringperson wrote:
PAL is a tweak of NTSC (color). Do you suppose that the phase is reversed every alternate line _only_ for 50Hz countries? Hmmm.. why do that? No, the color systems are independant of refresh rates & number of scan lines.
PAL isnt a format, PAL is a bunch of formats, when they talk about PAL people are talking about 50Hz 625 line color video at a certain bandwidth.
Well, according to what I've read D1 doesn't exactly define a certain resolution.
You need to read more, I suggest the NAB site, or digital video site, or even wikipedia.
My point all along was that PAL is independant of resolution/framerate. And you argued against me, and now you're arguing exactly what I was arguing - contradicting yourself, mind you - and now telling me that I was wrong??
PAL isnt a single format, PAL is a method of storing color information in 9 TV formats. When most people are talking about PAL, they are 50Hz PAL which has a set format etc.
I know. I'm using 'NTSC' in the context of NTSC Vs PAL, as in the differences in color signal (obviously, PAL only existed after color NTSC).
Which is wrong in the first place. NTSC defined the resolution, bandwidth etc for TV, then we added color, you cant say NTSC is only color information when it started out WITH NO COLOR.
Anyway, that doesn't mean that what's recorded on the media (especially in the case of digital) is PAL or NTSC. It's really neither.
It is. I used to have a D1 & D2 deck (yes they were very expensive, yes they are virtually worthless now), the Flyer was a D2 NTSC device, my new toaster is a D1 multistandard device. Your basic argument is that I record an NTSC signal into my D2 equipment and it becomes a non-NTSC signal, despite the fact that when I play it out it wll once again be an NTSC signal. To make the question even easier, do you believe that those little satellite boxes (which my company has made 35 million of) or digital cable is not NTSC and PAL because its digital? When you author a DVD, the D1 stream that goes into it is either NTSC or PAL, they dont make one DVD and it plays everywhere. Now your DVD player may transcode it, mine does, but the DVD player decodes it to its saved format before that happens.
-Tig
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Make peace !
Buy and import french materials because its accept all range of 50&60 Hz PAL/NTSC/SECAM input and all got pure RGB input :lol: