Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Nitro on June 27, 2006, 12:14:06 AM
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Man talk about ripping off the Amiga name, look here http://www.amiga.com.au/j-computers.htm
What next?
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Cheesy.. and not even decent specs...
*EDIT*
I suspect a hoax. The only clickable link on that page is the web stats link at the bottom.
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Gojirax wrote:
I suspect a hoax. The only clickable link on that page is the web stats link at the bottom.
Full contact details are on their homepage..http://www.amiga.com.au/ (http://www.amiga.com.au/) give 'em a call and find out
Or look 'em up on archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.amiga.com.au/)
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Or.... just sick Ray on em for trademark violation... :)
Wayne
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Or.... just sick Ray on em for trademark violation... :)
I was thinking that myself :lol:
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Other than the name, I didn't see any of the "Amiga" logos
used. I am not sure a lawsuit would hold up in court in this
case.
C Snyder
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@billchase.
Not at all. If Amiga Inc actually chose to push the issue, it should be a simple cease and desist order...
Wayne
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Regardless of logos, if you use someone elses company name to hock (not sure if spelling that right) rubbish products then you deserve to be sued.
Quite frankly I don't think AInc deserves the money though. In this case who is the lesser group of scumbags?
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Amiga Inc aren't in competition with this company. Their business is selling PocketPC games.
If Amiga Electronics in Australia was also selling PocketPC games then they'd be in direct competition and Amiga Inc may have a case of trademark violation.
But they aren't, so these PC's are no different than Amiga sanitary towels (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=6gr67a.2.27) or Amiga bathroom furniture (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=6gr67a.2.4). Nothing to do with Amiga Inc, and not even in the same business.
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Wayne wrote:
@billchase.
Not at all. If Amiga Inc actually chose to push the issue, it should be a simple cease and desist order...
Wayne
Well, looking on the ASIC company name search here in Aus it seems there are plenty of co's using the -word- "Amiga" in their name:
ACN 080 557 213 REGD AMIGA PTY LTD
ACN 109 860 808 REGD AMIGA AUTOMOTIVE PTY. LIMITED
ACN 006 590 174 REGD AMIGA ENGINEERING PTY. LTD.
ACN 111 455 844 REGD AMIGA ELECTRONICS PTY LTD
ACN 064 036 737 REGD AMIGA HOLDINGS PTY. LIMITED
WA BN09348360 REGD AMIGA INNOVATIONS
ACN 005 725 324 REGD AMIGA INVESTMENTS PTY. LIMITED
NSW Q7844813 REGD AMIGA DENTAL SERVICES
NSW Y3031014 REGD AMIGA DOWNUNDER UG INCORPORATED
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Sigh... I thought to point out that the name Amiga is trademarked in relation to computer hardware and software, not PTW, AUTOMOTIVES, Engineering, electronics, holdings, innovations, investments, dental services, or "downunder UG" whatever the heck that is, but I'm getting too old for logical arguments where the Amiga is concerned.
As such, Amiga Inc has very clear, firm, and undeniable ground with which to defend their trademarks (not that they will). As a matter of fact, under Trademark law, if they do not defend their trademarks, they stand LOSE their claim to trademarks to begin with.
Factually, while people like e-Bay may blindly bend to meaningless legal threats from non-entities such as Amiga Inc, I'm not sure -- from a legal standpoint -- that Amiga Inc *could* legally defend their trademarks any more, even if they had the money since they've allowed it to be diluted so badly by their neglect at defending it.
Wayne
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Lando wrote:
Amiga Inc aren't in competition with this company. Their business is selling PocketPC games.
Sigh...
I don't think anyone debates that point, but their LEGAL TRADEMARKS (which is what this thread about) are for computer hardware and software -- not PocketPC games -- for which the site we're talking about is in CLEAR violation of, by naming their computers "Amiga".
Wayne
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Somebody should really report this
this would defame the Amiga name,
I know some would argue that the name is already defamed hehe......but you know what I mean
That website looks extremely corny.
THey must definitely know what the AMiga is........so this must be intentional....................nevertheless they need to be reported.
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Maybe the AMIGA license name in Australia was not payed by A.INC, so i was not registred anymore and free to use... unlike what happen to the SEGA MegaDrive renamed GENESIS in the USA... (a pong got the name first ONLY in the USA)
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Who's going to buy a PC called Amiga (whatever)??
Hardly a reputable name amoung PC peoples!!
and does anybody seriously give a toss???
No! Seriously?? :-?
Amiga Innovations (http://www.amigainnovations.com/) is an actual amiga reseller :-)
Downunder UG is an amiga usergroup too!
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Nitro wrote:
Man talk about ripping off the Amiga name, look here http://www.amiga.com.au/j-computers.htm
What next?
Somebody would have to report it to A.Inc
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billchase wrote:
Other than the name, I didn't see any of the "Amiga" logos
used. I am not sure a lawsuit would hold up in court in this
case.
C Snyder
begin to sell computers with the Microsoft name without using the logos and see what happens to you, clever
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Ok, I´m that "somebody". I wrote an email to Amiga.inc. Let see if they care to reply. :-)
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Hum,
is it April the first?
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I got an answer from Amiga.inc, they appreciated the heads up. Amiga.Inc´s legal team will investigate this.
Sounds good to me :-)
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Since "Amiga Inc." is a software company and "Amiga Electronics" is a thrid party pc reseller, the legal lines are drawn a bit fuzzy here. The two companies aren't in direct competion, so the pc bunch should be able to call themselfs "Amiga WHATEVER" if they like without legal issues. The fact they are both in the computer industry would cause some confusion that Amiga Inc. might like to try and eliminate. Aside from asking politely, offering bribes, or scare tactics I'm not sure how far they can go with this. I've done a little brand name research with a friends new business, so I've seen some similar company names and trademarks in operation. But I still know very little about all the legals and it will be interested to hear how this works out.
Plaz
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Australia != USA. Is Amiga internationally registered trademark? Because if Amiga trademark (for computers) is registered trademark in the USA only then Amiga Inc lose.
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@plaz
Amiga Inc owns both Amiga trademarks for software and hardware (look US patents office). The question is do they have a registered trademark in Australia and if they do it must cover computers...
However I would assume Commodore registered Amiga trademark in Australia and it was transfered to Gateway->Amiga Inc->KMOS->New Amiga Inc (keeping a trademark alive costs almost nothing).
(Edit) Here it is:
Word: AMIGA
Owner/s: Amiga, Inc.,
a Washington Corporation
24403 256th Avenue SE
PO Box 887
Ravensdale, WA 98051
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Class: 9 Computers and computer peripherals, and parts, accessories, components and fittings therefor; computer programs and software
Found from ipaustralia service.
Amiga Innovations being computer store abuse Amiga trademark too.
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@ Crusher
I think Amiga Inc. should look into it. When someone takes the word "Amiga" and puts it on a computer, it takes advantage of a legendary computer system. If the day comes that there is an Intel based Amiga, it should atleast be an official one.
With all the forums about OS4 or classic and why it can`t be ported without a license, it just doesn`t seem right for a company to pick up the name and use it in that way.
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@Nitro, exactly. :-)
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I think Amiga Inc. should look into it. When someone takes the word "Amiga" and puts it on a computer, it takes advantage of a legendary computer system
They may not have even known of the old Amiga computer. Hardly anyone under 25 or anyone who wasn't into computers in the late 80's remembers the Amiga any more. Mention Amiga today and you just get 'Omega? What's that? Is it like a Playstation?'
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Lando wrote:
They may not have even known of the old Amiga computer. Hardly anyone under 25 or anyone who wasn't into computers in the late 80's remembers the Amiga any more. Mention Amiga today and you just get 'Omega? What's that? Is it like a Playstation?'
I would advise anyone starting a business to do a quick search to see if the name thay want is in use already. The fact that amiga.com was already registered should have been enough. A quick search for "Amiga computer" would have given enough evidence that a company called Amiga that sells computer stuff is already in existence.
Failure to check if your chosen name is already in use can be disastrous.
Hans
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I wrote them an e-mail:
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It's great to see Amiga going to x86 processors! Does your Amigas have the latest version of AmigaOS? I'd like to know how can I order one of these next generation Amiga computers!
Well I'm kidding :P Did you not know that there is already a company called Amiga (http://www.amiga.com/corporate/?PHPSESSID=4ee76f373b8b39dacdb4d7678c59cda2)? With this name you trick (involuntary or voluntarily) your customers that you actually sell Amiga computers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga)!
How about naming your computers Apple? That's a great idea.... not :-)
==
:-D
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Hans_ wrote:
Lando wrote:
They may not have even known of the old Amiga computer. Hardly anyone under 25 or anyone who wasn't into computers in the late 80's remembers the Amiga any more. Mention Amiga today and you just get 'Omega? What's that? Is it like a Playstation?'
I would advise anyone starting a business to do a quick search to see if the name thay want is in use already. The fact that amiga.com was already registered should have been enough. A quick search for "Amiga computer" would have given enough evidence that a company called Amiga that sells computer stuff is already in existence.
Failure to check if your chosen name is already in use can be disastrous.
Hans
Well, their company is called Amiga Electronics, and they sell mainly electronic components and PCB's.
What confuses me is that there exists many other companies who also sell computers and parts or services, such as Amigakit.com, Amiga Center France, Amiga Super Bit in Spain, Amiga City in Belgium, or Amiga Innovations in Perth, but we haven't had threads about those companies or people sending emails to Amiga Inc to get them shut down (or maybe they have, I dont know)
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Lando wrote:
such as Amigakit.com, Amiga Center France, Amiga Super Bit in Spain, Amiga City in Belgium, or Amiga Innovations in Perth, but we haven't had threads about those companies or people sending emails to Amiga Inc to get them shut down (or maybe they have, I dont know)
As stupid as I believe this whole thing is, The companies you mention (just as amiga.org) actively support the Amiga computer community. It would be against their best interests to shut down support for their own audience.
Wayne
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Lando wrote:
Well, their company is called Amiga Electronics, and they sell mainly electronic components and PCB's.
Ok, so they can sell electronic components and PCBs under that name. However, if I had a company called Sun electronics, do you think I'd get away with selling "Sun Workstations"? I suspect that Sun Microsystems would shut me down pretty quickly. It's te same with this company. Their naming might sound logical, but they are infringing on someone else's trademark.
Hans
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Lando here (http://www.amiga.com.au/j-computers.htm) I see the sell computers that they call Amiga, my e-mail wasnt referring to other things that they may sell. I think it is misleading naming the computer they sell Amiga as it would be if it was called Atari or Apple.
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Looking at their page statistics (http://www.webstats4u.com/s?tab=1&link=1&id=3355159), it appears that we've caused a bit of a spike. I wonder if they're wondering why they've suddenly got such an international interest (look at the last visitors list). :lol:
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Lando here I see the sell computers that they call Amiga, my e-mail wasnt referring to other things that they may sell. I think it is misleading naming the computer they sell Amiga as it would be if it was called Atari or Apple.
But but... what if they already licensed Amiga trademark from AI and have AROS running on their computers? It is not impossible ;-)
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Lando wrote:
Hans_ wrote:
Lando wrote:
They may not have even known of the old Amiga computer. Hardly anyone under 25 or anyone who wasn't into computers in the late 80's remembers the Amiga any more. Mention Amiga today and you just get 'Omega? What's that? Is it like a Playstation?'
I would advise anyone starting a business to do a quick search to see if the name thay want is in use already. The fact that amiga.com was already registered should have been enough. A quick search for "Amiga computer" would have given enough evidence that a company called Amiga that sells computer stuff is already in existence.
Failure to check if your chosen name is already in use can be disastrous.
Hans
Well, their company is called Amiga Electronics, and they sell mainly electronic components and PCB's.
What confuses me is that there exists many other companies who also sell computers and parts or services, such as Amigakit.com, Amiga Center France, Amiga Super Bit in Spain, Amiga City in Belgium, or Amiga Innovations in Perth, but we haven't had threads about those companies or people sending emails to Amiga Inc to get them shut down (or maybe they have, I dont know)
The difference is that these stores actually resell amiga software and hardware, instead of slapping on a Amiga sticker and selling something not connected as an Amiga, when it is infact not.
If they on the other hand sold toilets under that name, then there would probably be no problems though.
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Wayne wrote:
Not at all. If Amiga Inc actually chose to push the issue, it should be a simple cease and desist order...
Which would get you nowhere here in Australia. There are four companies in Australia using the name of my employer, and they're all valid, legally registered entities. They're all competing in the same fields as well.
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itix wrote:
Amiga Innovations being computer store abuse Amiga trademark too.
Nah, Amiga Innovations are a Perth based Amiga reseller. Btw, their prices are breathtaking.
I think Amiga Electronics crossed the line when they started calling their PCs "Amiga", it's not only tacky, it's pointless, no one who still knows what an Amiga is, is going to rush out and buy an "Amiga" named bog-standard PC.
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@fransexy
I see your point, but since the word "amiga" is an everyday
spoken word in the spanish language, this reseller could argue
that this is what they are referencing. The word "Microsoft" is
not traditionally an everyday word in the English language, nor
is it even in the dictionary (at least Webster's online dictionary).
It is certainly of more clarity of what that word refers to. Again,
my logic might be far off base, but I hope it makes sense.
C Snyder
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Crusher wrote:
I got an answer from Amiga.inc, they appreciated the heads up. Amiga.Inc´s legal team will investigate this.
Sounds good to me :-)
I really wonder why we should play police for them? IMO they
have abandoned the community long ago (The A1 and OS4 don't
count as someone else did all the work for that). Once they
start supporting the community again, then I will look out for
them. Sorry to go OT, but just ranting. I will leave my soapbox now.
C Snyder
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Regardless of the fact that Amiga Inc don't have the balls to do anything about anybody, the reality is that they'd have a cast iron trademark infringement case against this company. Ignorance of the original use of the Amiga name is not a defense.
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That company should be driven out of business. I mean, those PCs they're selling are complete crap, even for PCs. 256 megs of RAM? On board video? Gimme a break.
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Amiga Inc owns both Amiga trademarks...
Word: AMIGA
Owner/s: Amiga, Inc.,
a Washington Corporation
24403 256th Avenue SE
PO Box 887
Ravensdale, WA 98051
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Class: 9 Computers and computer peripherals, and parts, accessories, components and fittings therefor; computer programs and software
According to Washington state records (http://www.secstate.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?name=AMIGA%2c+INC.&ubi=601983734) this company is "Inactive" and without a business license since 2004, so it would appear that they have little if anything to "protect" any more:
> AMIGA, INC.
> UBI Number: 601 983 734
> Category: Regular Corporation
> Profit/Nonprofit: Profit
> Active/Inactive: Inactive
> License Expiration: Date 09/30/2004
The current Amiga, Inc. is a totally unrelated company, incorporated in Delaware. Of course this constant changing names and going back to the same name but with a different company is deceptive if you ask me, but I am sure many Amiga users will disagree.
If this trademark was worth something to them, one has to wonder why they were not able to transfer it. Maybe in Australia you have to prove what you say? Maybe somebody would have had a difficult time trying to convince law and order that the retroactive deal from 2003 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45322) was for real.
Not everyone is like the US Patent and Trademark Office who will accept (http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=tm&qt=sno&reel=&frame=&sno=76096557) a change where two different legal entities with confusingly identical names are involved as if it were as simple as an address that needs to be updated (rather than two different companies):
> CORRECTIVE ASSIGNMENT TO CORRECT THE ADDRESS AND STATE OF
> INCORPORATION FOR THE RECEIVING PARTY ON CHANGE OF NAME
> DOCUMENT PREVIOUSLY RECORDED ON REEL 003211 FRAME 0156.
> ASSIGNOR(S) HEREBY CONFIRMS THE CHANGE OF NAME.
The fact that amiga.com was already registered
should have been enough
Registered? To whom? amiga.com does not belong to Amiga, Inc. (at least not to the current Amiga, Inc.) Apparently it was not transferred to Itec, LLC (if anything ever was), which is why KMOS could not purchase it. As anybody doing their homework (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/) could easily verify, amiga.com is registered in the name of a company that is inactive and without a business license, i.e. IMHO the Australian company is worth more respect than that:
> WHOIS Record For
> amiga.com
>
> Registrant:
> Amiga, Inc.
> P.O. Box 887
> Ravensdale, Washington 98051
> United States
Just my two cents. It only took about five minutes to look up these simple factoids.
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@ JoePillow
If all it took was for a company to be inactive, there would be flocks of companys selling Amiga brand computers. There would be OS4 hardware here and now, but it doesn`t work like that. This is about computer and the brand name.
From the Amiga Inc. site:
The Amiga brand name is recognized worldwide. Amiga frequently receives requests from parties seeking to use our name, logo or image for merchandising purposes. While we do reserve the right to deny legal access to merchandising rights to anyone, Amiga is committed to assisting and growing the Amiga community with legitimate and positively directed business efforts.
To ensure that our brand is used properly, we have implemented a procedure that comprises
Initial review: asks the merchandiser to respond to complete an online questionnaire pertaining to their business, product, and desire to use the Amiga name.
Licensing agreement: including business terms and a US$1,000 administrative and legal non-refundable fee.
Signing off: on logo/image/name to be used.
Signing off: on an actual product sample.
Granting of rights: via signed licensing agreement.
If they pay for a license to call their computers "AMIGA" then fine. It`s just not fair to other companys trying to produce hardware for Amiga OS4, that are required to buy a license. At any rate the website in question appears to be down now.
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This thread is a joke right? Some of the responses lead me to question the sanity of the poster, not to mention the excessive amount of spare time some of you must have to; one, find the site, two, write a letter of complaint to a virtually non existant company. Wouldn't you rather see Amiga.inc spending their time and money on developing a new Amiga? Personally, I see Amiga.inc as Amiga enemy number one, anything and everything Amiga related should have been passed over to the community under a GPL loooong ago, instead all this time has been wasted by a bunch of knob heads trying to mooch every last cent they can out of the Amiga name.
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@ adz
I agree the OS should have been made GPL, and It realy doesn`t matter to me and apparently not to Amiga Inc if they receive money from the name and products. The fact still remains there are rules and laws in this world that have to be followed.
Just because a business is not making the most of it`s property it doesn`t give someone else the right to take and use it. Even a music group still would have to pay the group or record label for the use of a song of a dead musician.
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Nitro wrote:
@ adz
I agree the OS should have been made GPL, and It realy doesn`t matter to me and apparently not to Amiga Inc if they receive money from the name and products. The fact still remains there are rules and laws in this world that have to be followed.
Just because a business is not making the most of it`s property it doesn`t give someone else the right to take and use it. Even a music group still would have to pay the group or record label for the use of a song of a dead musician.
At the same time it is not our job to seek out and report violations of Amiga Incs rights, let them worry about it, because at the end of the day, nothing useful will come of it.
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adz wrote:
At the same time it is not our job to seek out and report violations of Amiga Incs rights, let them worry about it, because at the end of the day, nothing useful will come of it.
I haven't seen a better, more accurate sentiment in many, many years.
We can bring it up to them, but if they choose not (or are unable) to act, then it's really none of our business. As McEwen said once "[We're] not the ones who shelled out 5 million for the name".
Wayne
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Nitro wrote:
At any rate the website in question appears to be down now.
Nope. Still there. And still selling Amigas.
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@ Lando
Must just be my computer, I just get a error page.
Quote: Nope. Still there. And still selling Amigas.
Oh well, always good to see new AROS hardware.
I hope they have better luck than KMOS err.. Amiga Inc.
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Nitro wrote:
@ JoePillow
If all it took was for a company to be inactive, there would be flocks of companys selling Amiga brand computers. There would be OS4 hardware here and now, but it doesn`t work like that. This is about computer and the brand name.
From the Amiga Inc. site: The Amiga brand name is recognized worldwide...
Well, this is the point I was trying to make. Companies named "Amiga, Inc." are already flocking. :-) If each US state can have one company with a given name, there soon may be 50 "Amiga, Inc." companies, and if one hands out a press kit the other will feel it has a right to have it removed from eBay, and nobody in the community will even think for a second (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22252) that these are different entities, and that company B maybe has no right over what company A handed out.
As I indicated, official records show that the web site and the trademark mentioned in this thread in relation to the Australian company are owned by the former Amiga, Inc. of Washington, not by Amiga, Inc. of Delaware. These are two separate companies. Redrumloa sold on eBay something that the Washington company had handed out. But it was another company, based in Delaware, who complained to eBay. Why do we keep treating them as one, if ownership of domains and trademarks is not in the hands of only one? Why do we always accept that they can keep confusing us with this game of identical names but different companies? This game is not honest, IMHO.
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@ JoePillow
Indeed the name game was confusing. A lot of people have theory’s that it was just away of avoiding debts. When I came across the site it just threw me off, after having read so many forums about possible x86 ports of Amiga OS and why it can never happen. Perhaps the company has indeed legal rights as you`ve said. In that way it reminds me of how Yellowtab is able to market Zeta(BeOS), without getting involved with PALM after they bought it from Be Inc.
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leirbag28 wrote:
this would defame the Amiga name,
Yeah, damn them for making computers. Amiga Inc. has to fight to uphold their long standing tradition of not making hardware. What does Amiga Computers think they are doing by actually having computers available for purchase? What is the Amiga computer world coming to?
Pete
(Yes I realize that the Amiga Computers are only Amiga in name, but if you haven't figured out the liberal dose of sarcasm applied to this post by now then just move along, nothing to see here.)
:-D
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WA BN09348360 REGD AMIGA INNOVATIONS
Amiga Innovations is a one man part time Amiga Dealer. (Likes to ramp up the prices too).