Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Mugo on May 29, 2006, 07:03:20 PM
-
Hello Guys,
I have an A4000D, with a CPPC (060@50/604e@200), and a 17GB SCSI HD (68 pin) connected to it's onboard interface.
The problem is that i can only have transfer rates of 11MB/s top.
Tried some benchmark utils (DiskMonTools, SCSIBench and SysSpeed) and all of them shows about the same results. These figures are with sequencial read, using 156kb files or higher !
This HD is the only device in the chain. The cable is attached to the CPPB by a connector in the middle of the cable, and there's an active terminator after it (on the end of the cable), then the other end goes to the HD, that have termination enabled.
Everything works fine, but i feel it could be faster.
So i would like to know if any of you guys have a similar configuration, and can achieve higher transfer rates ?
If so, could you tell me your settings in the PPC firmware's menu ?
Thanks !
PS to moderators: sorry if this is the wrong forum section . . .
-
I'd play with UnitControl a bit. My guess is that you might need the unitcontrol command in user-startup sequence for the drive.
-
The only thing you should need to do is to set the transfer-mode to synchronous and 20MHz for the ID-number of your harddrive in scsi-part of the bootmenu-settings (entered by pressing esc at boot). For the other settings of the harddrive id, just set them to auto. If your cabling/termination/harddrive doesn't manage those speeds, the controller will sense that and run it slower.
/Patrik
-
I have same setup only 9 GB harddisk.
Just tried with sysspeed gave me around 18 MB/s
Only I am using SFS instead of FFS because is quite faster!
I used to have same speed as yours until I adjusted the scsisettings and using the other filesystem(SFS).
-
-
The two flags which are contained in the RDB - the Synchron and Reselection flag, are only used if "Async/Synchron" (Auto) mode respective "Auto Reselection" is used.
If you, in the bootmenu set "Async" or "Synchron" respective "Reselection" or "No Reselection" the values for these flags set in the RDB will be ignored.
Also, say if you set 20MHz synchronous and the controller judges that your cabling/termination/harddrive combo isn't up to the task, it will revert to a lower speed, which can make it feel like the settings in the bootmenu doesn't make much difference.
/Patrik
-
Mugo wrote:
This HD is the only device in the chain. The cable is attached to the CPPB by a connector in the middle of the cable, and there's an active terminator after it (on the end of the cable), then the other end goes to the HD, that have termination enabled.
Let me get this right... it's like this:
TERM====CSPPC====HDD+TERM
Is that how it's set up? If so, why don't you try it like this:
CSPPC====HDD====TERM
The SCSI interface should terminate one end of the chain, so you shouldn't need a terminator before it. And maybe the terminator in the hard drive isn't working very well, which is why your transfer speeds aren't very good. If you put your active terminator after the drive, it may work better.
--
moto
-
@motorollin:
The CSPPC/CSMK3 doesn't have an onboard terminator, so his setup is as it should be.
/Patrik
-
Oh OK, didn't know that :-)
--
moto
-
Even my slowest UWSCSI disk does about 24 MB/s raw, fastest 30-31 MB/s. The most important is synchron mode, async stays well under 20 MB/s.
-
Hi Guys,
Thank you all very much for your advices.
Just to add some points i've forgot:
This HD have 4 partitions. 2 of them are used to my two boot partitions with different system setups, and they are FFS, because i really don't rely on other FS that much. If something goes wrong, i need at least one partition with tools in it, that can try and repair the problem with other FS.
The other 2 partitions, have PFS3 on them. Also i've added lots of buffers to all the partitions.
I tried to benchmark all of them, and the results are almost the same. Nothing that could show so much difference. And this is another thing that make me think something is not the way it was supposed to be . . .
I didn't know about the UnitControl utility. I didn't know it could be called with parameters from the Startup script. I tried it from WB, but i thought that a reboot was needed to make the changes to take effect. I'll try this later.
And i thought about the RDB thing. Seems that this can be the problem.
This HD was previously used in my A1200T BPPC SCSI interface ! So the partitions was created there, and the system was installed there as well. As i don't have any other HD at hand, i just moved the HD to this new machine, and corrected some system configurations, so it could work on the A4000.
I'll try to get an IDE HD to copy all my files over, and repartition this SCSI HD. But let me first try the UnitControl trick.
By the way, what about the 40MB/S figures that I've read in somewhere, and is mentioned in the Cyberstorm Manual ? How can this be if there's only a maximum 20MB/s option on the Firmware's menu ? Is that information (in the menu that is) wrong ?
Thanks again guys. I really appreciatte your help.
-
zipper wrote:
Even my slowest UWSCSI disk does about 24 MB/s raw, fastest 30-31 MB/s. The most important is synchron mode, async stays well under 20 MB/s.
Damn . . . forgot some info again. :roll:
In the CPPC SCSI menu, this HD's ID is already as Synchron, and the reselection is already on.
I'm really looking forward to achieve 30MB/s !
-
Perhaps your drive cannot go as fast as 30MB/sec?
I've seen SCSI-3 drives which would not go faster than ~10MB/sec with CSPPC SCSI, yet when swapped with a different brand/spec/size SCSI-3 drive under the same chain and cabling, I'd get 30 or more MB/sec.
Not all SCSI-3 drives will play nicely with CSPPC. Most will work, but your mileage and performance may vary.
-
@Mugo:
The speed-setting for the synchronous setting in the bootmenu is in MHz. As it is a wide scsi-interface (16-bit), 20MHz * (16bits/8) = 40MB/s.
The flags in the RDB are ignored if you set it to "Synch" or "Asynch" for the synchronous flag and "No Reselection" or "Reselection" for the reselection flag. They are only read from RDB if you set them to "Asynch/Sync" respective "Auto Reselection".
As the controller will sense if your cabling/termination/harddrive can manage the speeds you have set 100% reliable, it might be something isnt up to the task. I think it reverts back to asynchronous if that is the case, but I am not sure I remember right. Anyhow, try setting it to asynchronous and just a bit over 10MHz - say 11 or 12MHz and see if that increases the speed over previous attempts.
Measure the raw transfer-rate with ScsiSpeed from the DiskSpeed (http://aminet.net/package.php?package=disk/moni/DiskSpeed42.lha) package, then filesystem won't interfer with the results.
/Patrik
-
I'm really looking forward to achieve 30MB/s !
You'll probably need u160, better u320 drive to that speed.
-
80 pins SCA are enough to achieve 36 Mbsec, with large transfers-256k-512k (PFS3).
Smaller transfers drops the speed a lot.
With another UW 68pins, i achieve lower tranfer/rate (about 25MBSec)
All this with the "optimistic" Scsibench with the CPU load meter DISABLED.
-
@Mugo
Try using UnitControl to set your parameters in Workbench
before benchmarking. Unitcontrol will enable the settings
regardless of the RDB flags (until you reboot at least) You
should see a difference.
@Patrik
In my setups, the RDB flags have always overrided the SCSI
boot menu settings. I really can't explain why.
C Snyder
-
Hi again Guys,
Thank you all very much for all help.
I tried to mess a little with UnitControl, and managed to achieve better transfer rates with my harddrive.
Seems that 40MB/s Synchron, with 10 bytes handshake is the optimal setup for me.
SCSIBench reported 24MB/s rates in same sector readind with a block size of 16kB ! Previously it was about 11MB/s . . .
The problem is that i want to use UnitControl in my User-startup, but i cant get it to work from the shell.
It says "Commandline error", or something . . .
Do someone knows the right command arguments ? I'm trying something like this:
UnitControl cybppc.device 6 Wide Reselection FWC
Also, what are the best settings for the controller no the PPC Menu ?
And do someone knows if the SCSI controller on the Cyberstorm support 32-Bit Devices ? Would it be noticeably faster ?
I'll look for another drive, and would like to have a faster one if it's possible.
Oh God . .. so many questions :-P
Thanks guys !
-
If you take a look at the template: Device/K,...
/K means the option name must be present. Thus:
UnitControl Device cybppc.device 6 Wide Reselection FWC
[EDIT: fixed typo]
-
Piru wrote:
If you take a look at the template: Decice/K,...
/K means the option name must be present. Thus:
UnitControl Device cybppc.device 6 Wide Reselection FWC
Ops ! My mistake. Seems that i'm overlooking somethings . . . :roll:
Thank you Piru ! I'll try this again as soon as i have time.
-
Is it possible to use SSD's with CSPPC? I got myself a sata to scsi3 adapter and might try using an SSD with it. Is there anything to keep in mind when choosing which ssd to use? I had been using ide to scsi3 adapter with a 120gb Seagate ide hdd and was achieving around 35mb/sec transfer rates as far as I remember. What's the upper limit with CSPPC?
About termination... I had been using the Acard SCSIDE set to "termination on" and did not have any issues with just one ide drive. (my scs cdwriter was connected to A4000Ts scsi2 port) Now if I plug 1 ide hdd, 1 sata ssd, and a scsi2 cdwriter converted to 68pin what should the configuration be like? I also got myself a cable with active termination at the end. (Previously I was using an ordinary cable with one ide device)
-
Yes you can use an SSD with the CSPPC, but the UWSCSI will max out around 36 MB/s. For that the type doesn't matter unless you feel autotrim is needed (not IMHO).
Termination with an UWSCSI should always be "Active and Wide" at both ends of the cable. Unless you are running OS4.1, I would use the slow devices on the slow buses, i.e., the SCSI2 CDROM on the SCSI 4091 for quicker throughput. Keeping devices on different buses allows copying to occur without bus slow downs and reversals.
-
Is it possible to use SSD's with CSPPC? I got myself a sata to scsi3 adapter and might try using an SSD with it. Is there anything to keep in mind when choosing which ssd to use? I had been using ide to scsi3 adapter with a 120gb Seagate ide hdd and was achieving around 35mb/sec transfer rates as far as I remember. What's the upper limit with CSPPC?
About termination... I had been using the Acard SCSIDE set to "termination on" and did not have any issues with just one ide drive. (my scs cdwriter was connected to A4000Ts scsi2 port) Now if I plug 1 ide hdd, 1 sata ssd, and a scsi2 cdwriter converted to 68pin what should the configuration be like? I also got myself a cable with active termination at the end. (Previously I was using an ordinary cable with one ide device)
If you have more than one device as you describe with the ACard - remove the two jumpers from the ACard and put active terminators on each end of the cable. Then it will work - I have that config :)
-
Hello Guys,
I have an A4000D, with a CPPC (060@50/604e@200), and a 17GB SCSI HD (68 pin) connected to it's onboard interface.
The problem is that i can only have transfer rates of 11MB/s top.
According to the CSPPC speccs its UW-SCSI II host has transfer rates of up to 40 mB/s.
...
This HD is the only device in the chain. The cable is attached to the CPPB by a connector in the middle of the cable, and there's an active terminator after it (on the end of the cable), then the other end goes to the HD, that have termination enabled.
Your SCSI chain should look like this:
active Terminator ---- CSPPC ---- HD ---- active Terminator
Everything works fine, but i feel it could be faster.
So i would like to know if any of you guys have a similar configuration, and can achieve higher transfer rates ?
If so, could you tell me your settings in the PPC firmware's menu ?
. . .
Sorry, but I have a different config.
I also have SCSI-II devices like CD-ROM, CD-RW, DVD-RW and flatbed scanner in the chain - just the HDs run in UW-mode.
Upper 8 Bit of the UW-SCSI properly actively terminated behind the HDs and the lower 8Bit connected to the SCSI-II devices and properly actively terminated behind the last SCSI-II device.
As I am satified with the overall speed I never cared to measure the actual transfer rates.
-
Ops ! My mistake. Seems that i'm overlooking somethings . . . :roll:
Thank you Piru ! I'll try this again as soon as i have time.
This is what I used in my startup when I had a csppc
Ofc you need to change the values to your liking but you can try my settings, just change the unit number number.
UnitControl Device=cybppc.device Unit=1 Period=20 Offset=10 Wide Reselection FWC