Amiga.org

The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: dammy on May 17, 2006, 03:09:05 PM

Title: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: dammy on May 17, 2006, 03:09:05 PM
Typically, I would be posting this over on the AROS subboard, but I feel this should be mentioned to the UAE (as well as Classic Amiga users) subboard readers since this could be of major interest.

TeamAROS' has two (and third brewing) bounties Phase I (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=23) and Phase II (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=24) bounties that would lead to a AROS kickstart replacement for Amiga kickstart for UAE.  There is a Dev that is looking at it but is holding off till more $ is added to make the huge task more worth while to do.

This could be leading to new kickstart ROMs being burned for your machine or use in UAE.  Yes, individual amiga series would have to additional work done to it, but this is your chance now to push forward and leave Amiga Inc to the history books.

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: motorollin on May 17, 2006, 03:45:29 PM
There's already a Linux bootloader for classic Amigas, so could an AROS Kickstart ROM be based on that?

--
moto
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: SamuraiCrow on May 17, 2006, 03:55:49 PM
A bootloader uses Kickstart routines to do everything.  We're talking about a whole new ROM image here.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: Oli_hd on May 17, 2006, 03:59:30 PM
That would be a great thing to see done, a binary compatiable ROM that you could load workbench on until Aros is perfected.
I wish whoever gets assigned this the very best of luck.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: SamuraiCrow on May 17, 2006, 04:05:22 PM
Ummm... Workbench is contained in the Kickstart ROM as well.   :roll:
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: nadoom on May 17, 2006, 04:11:34 PM
wonderful idea! lets do it..
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: motorollin on May 17, 2006, 04:11:52 PM
Oh ok, so without the original Kickstart, the Linux bootloader would fail to work.

Serves me right for trying to be clever  :-P :lol:

--
moto
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: SamuraiCrow on May 17, 2006, 04:27:27 PM
IF the AROS Kickstart ROM were done correctly it would still work.  But there's always the chance that some programs wouldn't use the Kickstart in the correct way or would try to patch the system to use different functions.  For example, the new Kickstart would require the removal of the SetPatch command from your s:Startup-sequence file.  It would probably boot faster but at the expense of some compatability.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: dammy on May 17, 2006, 05:20:00 PM
Quote
wonderful idea! lets do it..


Just takes cash or code.  :-D

Dammy
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: Tricky on May 17, 2006, 06:14:55 PM
This would certainly be useful for making your own Amiga using FPGAs.  It's been done!
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: Oli_hd on May 18, 2006, 11:05:07 AM
Quote
Ummm... Workbench is contained in the Kickstart ROM as well.


Err, the CLI is in the kickstart, the GUI (Workbench) is on floppy/CD-Rom/harddrive.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: Piru on May 18, 2006, 11:14:36 AM
@Oli_hd

Nope. Workbench is in Kickstart ROM at least since KS V36.

For example KS 3.1:

workbench.task
wbtag 39.1 (20.4.92)
workbench.library
wb 40.5 (24.5.93)
icon.library
icon 40.1 (15.2.93)

The parts on floppy are LoadWB (to launch the WB) and version.library (workbench version). A4000T KS ROM 40.70 is special, it has a floppy based workbench.library.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: jdiffend on May 18, 2006, 11:30:08 AM
Gee, the bounty is almost up to $300... about 10 times what it was when I looked at doing it when the bounty was set up.

Too bad that's still probably less than $1/hr for the amount of work required.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: jdiffend on May 18, 2006, 11:34:21 AM
@Oli_hd

Piru is right... it's in the ROM for later releases.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: dammy on May 18, 2006, 12:29:01 PM
Quote
Gee, the bounty is almost up to $300... about 10 times what it was when I looked at doing it when the bounty was set up.

Too bad that's still probably less than $1/hr for the amount of work required.


It does take time to build bounties up.  The more people who see AROS as a workable alternative, the faster donations are accumulated.  The larger the community builds up, the more donations flow in, more devs are attracted to AROS developement.  Long ass process, but that's the nature of a community based OS.

Yes, the bounties still need more cash, which is why I'm posting on here.  I can see an alliance between the Classic Amiga owners, Emulators, and AROS community being beneficial to everyone.  Classic owner can see a ray of hope for updating WB and kickstart.  Emulators can gain freedom from having deal with Amiga Inc's IP.

Dammy
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: Oli_hd on May 18, 2006, 01:33:37 PM
Quote
I can see an alliance between the Classic Amiga owners, Emulators, and AROS community being beneficial to everyone. Classic owner can see a ray of hope for updating WB and kickstart. Emulators can gain freedom from having deal with Amiga Inc's IP.


That would be a deam... however the Amiga AROS has been left for so long now I would bet a complete redesign from scratch  would be needed to suit the newer source code.

Ahh if I could program this is what I would be working on.. but I cant so  :-(
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: nadoom on May 18, 2006, 02:42:27 PM
Quote
Just takes cash or code.


i provide moral support for the time being :) but once i am settled i will hopefully provide some monetary assistance.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: Oliver on May 18, 2006, 04:41:45 PM
Quote

nadoom wrote:
i provide moral support for the time being :) but once i am settled i will hopefully provide some monetary assistance.


I'm sorry I can only provide immoral support: it's a pitfal in my character.

When I get out of uni, and get some money, there is a number of projects/services deserving of my donations.
Title: Re: AROS Kickstart Replacement Phase I and II
Post by: jdiffend on May 18, 2006, 06:23:11 PM
Quote

Oli_hd wrote:

That would be a deam... however the Amiga AROS has been left for so long now I would bet a complete redesign from scratch  would be needed to suit the newer source code.

Ahh if I could program this is what I would be working on.. but I cant so  :-(


Don't feel bad.  There are quite a few people here that can program that don't even want to touch it.  Me included and I've written stuff like this for embedded systems.

Redesign?  Well... I don't know about that.  It has to match the original OS design rather than AROS.  However, it never had to do a lot of things that the ROM does so I'm not sure how usefull it would be anyway.

The original kickstart tests hardware, sets up the cpu (identifies it, sets interrupts, etc), sets up memory and autoconfigs other hardware.  It has to set up timing used for task switching and sets up the structures in RAM for the exec.  Once it gets that far it says the exec is running and you are technically on the AmigaOS.  However, then you need all the exec lib working on the 680x0 if you are going to do anything from the amiga OS to bootstrap the machine.  Then there is that cool AROS logo someone wanted put up, etc.
I do belive that the graphics lib was also neaded somewhere early on so that you can display system alerts if there is a problem... and you have to write the alert code for the miggy.

Even if it is just enough code to bootstrap the rest of the kickstart from disk it still has to have some device driver for a floppy or hard drive.  Unless you just lock out a fixed location on the drive for the rest of the kickstart to load from then you need a file system.

And on top of all that you have to make sure the code is ROMable, blah, blah, blah.

It's not that any of these jobs by themselves can't be handled.  It's that it would be a full time job for several weeks to see any real results.  Sure, you could hack together something using part of the original kickstart but then there would be copyright issues.