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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: blobrana on May 07, 2006, 08:04:12 PM
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A confidential UK Ministry of Defence report on Unidentified Flying Objects has concluded that there is no proof of alien life forms.
In spite of the secrecy surrounding the UFO study, it seems citizens of planet Earth have little to worry about.
The report, which was completed in 2000 and stamped "Secret: UK Eyes Only", has been made public for the first time.
Only a small number of copies were produced and the identity of the man who wrote it has been protected.
His findings were only made public thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, after a request by Sheffield Hallam University academic Dr David Clarke.
The four-year study - entitled Unidentified Aerial Phenomena in the UK - tackles the long-running question by UFO-spotters: "Is anyone out there?"
The answer, it seems, is "no".
The 400-page report puts it like this: "No evidence exists to suggest that the phenomena seen are hostile or under any type of control, other than that of natural physical forces"
It adds: "There is no evidence that 'solid' objects exist which could cause a collision hazard."
So if there are no such things as little green men in spaceships or flying saucers, why have so many people reported seeing them?
"Evidence suggests that meteors and their well-known effects and, possibly some other less-known effects are responsible for some unidentified aerial phenomena" concludes the report.
Source BBC (Link is down just now) :lol:
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I guess that's the way of things, if you can't answer a question, deny the question exists.
:sealed:
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Tripitaka wrote:
I guess that's the way of things, if you can't answer a question, deny the question exists.
:sealed:
Question? What question? ;-)
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I just watched Carl Sagan's 'Cosmos' series once again. As you'll probably know, Sagan was convinced that the universe is teeming with life. Part 12 ('Encyclopoedia Galactica') covers the saga of alien visitation and close encounters of all kinds. The upshot of it all is why would they come here anyway? Brilliant!
JaX
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Put it this way, if I were a discriminating boy-racer from the Tau Ceti system with my XLR GTI MK6 Saucer deluxe I'd take it for a spin over some of the more densely populated areas on Earth for a laugh before sitting back and watching the resulting furore way down below.
Once I was done having fun with the natives, I'd start buzzing some airbases to enjoy some drag racing with the local airforces.
Bet you anything you like, first contact between humanity and an alien culture will take place when one of the burberry clad interstellar chavs reverses his saucer into Mount Rushmore and stops to exchange insurance details.
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:lol:
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The National Sea Rescue Institute (NSRI) is monitoring a mysterious situation on the KZN south coast, South Africa.
"Numerous" eye-witnesses reported an unidentified flying object crashing into the sea on Saturday.
NSRI Shelley Beach station commander, Eddie Noyons, said eye-witnesses had reported an unidentified object - possibly an aircraft - crashing into the sea behind the breaker line off-shore of the Port Shepstone High School.
Police, rescue craft and a fixed wing aircraft were alerted to the scene to investigate.
Source (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1936528,00.html)
Port shepstone map (http://static.flickr.com/44/150736113_506810c939_o.jpg)(76kb, 800 x 528)
Latitude 30°45'0.00"S Longitude 30°26'60.00"E
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(http://www.totalreddwarf.co.uk/image_bank/rimmer/rimmer11.jpg)
'It's a Garbage Pod! It's a Smegging Garbage Pod'
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Local East Anglian legend has it that UFOs have been seen following the main A120 road, which is pretty straight and runs from Colchester to Harwich, on the North Sea coast.
I found that one out after having driven along that road twice a day for seven and a half years...
Thankfully, I wasn't stopped by tourists from Sirius B asking for directions to the Millenium Dome.
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I reckon most sightings are of parts falling from commercial satellite launch programs, even secret military launches.
There's a chance that a few are of 'Willo The Wisp' - the ball lightning phenomena. Japanese scientists created ball lightning in a lab using a microwave generator and the balls could either pass through ceramic plates leaving them intact, or pass through and smash them.
There was also talk lately that the Columbia disaster of 2003 may have been caused by a rare lightning that strikes up into space. It was hypothesised that the type of lightning is occasionaly seen by NASA in orbit and may have been attracted to the static/plasma generated by re-entry.
Then there's the chance that UFOs are unmanned reconnaisance craft (possibly with orbital capability). I'm sure people other than the residents of Baghdad have seen cruise missile variants flying overhead!
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Try explaining that to USAAF Capt Mantell, who was killed in 1947 when engaging a UFO in his P-51 fighter, or to the two Iranian F-4 Phantom pilots who engaged a UFO over Tehran in the late 1960s and experienced sudden systems shutdown when attempting to get a missle lock on a UFO. The latter pilots were very lucky, as control of their jets returned once the UFO dodged out of the way.
In the 1970s a Major Schaeffer (USAF) who while on exchange with the RAF was ordered to ditch his Lightning interceptor in the Irish Sea after a classified engagement with an unknown aircraft. Sadly Major Schaeffer was found dead in his dinghy shortly after due to exposure.
Several eyewitnesses who have reported seeing UFOs at close range have also been recorded as suffering first degree burns consistent with exposure to gamma ray radiation.
Try explaining that lot away "ball lightning".
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@ PMC
There have certainly been many incidents that could not be readily explained by the technology that was available at the time. How much of it was natural phenomena and how much was artificial, I don't know. The problem these days is that technology has advanced to the point where a UFO may very well be foreign terrestrial technology.
I have only seen one UFO (and I use that as a literal definition). It happened one evening at dusk while I was driving down a main road just north of Johannesburg in 1997. I saw in the distance something that I can only describe as a neon dash. At the time I instantly thought of the video game 'Elevator Action.' If you've played that and you remember what your character's bullets looked like, well that is what this looked like, only it was a crimson-purple colour. I suppose it would not have been out of place if they edited that 'thing' into a sci-fi film as weapons fire.
Anyway it must have been big because I had a clear view several kilometres to the horizon and it looked big from where I was.
But the thing that got me (the thing that I can't explain) was how quickly it went from one side of the horizon to the other. It must have been only 2 or 3 seconds, perfectly flat trajectory and then it was gone.
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In the case I detailed above, where an observer developed radiation burns it was reported that the UFO was being escorted by four US Airforce helicopters flying in loose formation. It doesn't take much imagination to hypothesise that the craft was of terrestrial origin, given that both the US and Soviets experimented with nuclear powered aircraft.
Certainly there are aircraft being tested right now which are kept hidden from the public - even the cash strapped UK has had more than it's fair share of sightings of unfamiliar shapes in the skies around our airbases and Wharton - British Aerospace's facility.
Remember that although the F117a was first unveiled in 1988, it had been flying in prototype form for ten years and had been in regular squadron service for five.
However, there are also some extraordinary reports - ie a Minuteman missile base being overflown by a UFO and subsequently being rendered defenceless as every electronic system on the base shut down and only restarted once the UFO had disappeared. The Iranian Phantom pilots reported a similar phenomena and certainly aircraft (and pilots) have been lost during UFO encounters.
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I suppose pilots might think they're being stalked by a UFO when it's possible that plasma might be attracted to the metal of their planes like a balloon is attracted to a wooly jumper.
There are many phenomena that we don't know about - look at dark matter. They can only detect it in the deepest mineshafts, and there's a powerful ray of energy that can penetrate right through the planet (only detected by changes in gravity in opposite continents or something).
:inquisitive:
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Hum,
As an update to the original post
Frans van Rensburg, a teacher at Port Shepstone High School, said on Monday it was simply a tornado that sucked up the sea water behind the breakers.
It was halftime during a rugby match between the first rugby teams of Port Shepstone and Ixopo when he noticed a dark cloud just before noon on a perfectly sunny Saturday morning.
Source (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1937431,00.html)
(the rugby score, someone told me, was Ixopo 13, Port Shepstone 12)
@Hyperspeed
neutrinos
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@ Blobzie
It sounds to me like Van Rensburg was partaking of copius amounts of mampoer before that sighting. Maybe he had just come back from the bokdrol spoeg competition.
I have enjoyed many a fine day on those beaches, in fact we would go to kelso (http://www.routes.co.za/kn/kelso/index.html) every year for our holidays when I was just a nipper. We've used all those beaches at one time or another, all the way up the coast and I even lived in Amanzimtoti for a while. Tornadoes in the absence of thunderstorm conditions, behind the breakers......nope I can't buy that.
What I can vouch for, is that the place has a certain magic. I am talking mainly about Kelso now. I would go for strolls along the beach at night and I always thought there was a certain presence there.
And the dreams.... :-o
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by X-ray:
I always thought there was a certain presence there.
And the dreams....
It's all in the lay-lines I tell you!
:idea:
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I don't usually bother telling people this, but I've also seen a UFO. X-Ray's sighting reminds me a little of what I saw. I was walking home from a friend's place at night, and took a shortcut through a repatriation hospital. There was no moon to be seen at all that night, and this hospital, as far as I can tell, is completely deserted after hours. There was no lamp lighting in the area, and all buildings were closed down for the night.
As I walked through the complex, I started to hear a low humming noise, very smooth and consistant in its timbre. I judged I was approaching the source of the sound, and thought I would check it out. I was curious, because it didn't really sound like a transformer (please no one mention our friends from Cybertron), and I also couldn't see anything which would be draining much electricity in the area, so as to require an audible source (well, I often think this way, being an engineering student). So, I veered to the left of the path, following the sound, through a copse of trees, and saw something which I had some difficulty in interpreting. The bit about unidentified certainly was true, and absolutely alien in the sense that it was dissimilar to anything I had seen before.
Above the top of an ~10 story building, there was a large, featureless rectangular white light, very similar in area to the building plan (that's as best I can say). The edges and angles were very sharply defined. I was trying to work out how that shape of light could be emanating from the building, as the nature of the perspective and partial obstruction of the light by the building were incongruent with any normal building lighting. Additionally, the building seemed to be otherwise completely shutdown, as were all the others. So, after staring at the object for several minutes, I came to the conclusion that it was hovering above the building.
I considered it was probably not prudent to get too close and be noticed, but I certainly didn't want to go away either. I was looking for any activity on the rooftop, but couldn't see any. After just a short time, the object seemed to instantly accelerate from stationary to a considerable, and apparently quite constant horizontal speed. This is the thing which grabbed me most: such rapid change of velocity, as I have never seen before or since. Also, it left in the opposite direction from that which I was coming. It gave me the sense that I had disturbed it when it had not intended to be observed.
It aroused my curiosity somewhat more, and I chased after it, but couldn't see any trace of it at all. Throughout the whole time, the humming had been constant, and smooth, though when the object departed, the humming very quickly ceased along with it. Upon inspection, the building was indeed closed down, and locked from the outside (yeah, I checked all the doors around the perimeter, just to be sure).
Well, a hell of a night that was. I was pretty ecstatic for the evening, but decided not to tell anyone, unless it came up. I figured if I went around telling people off the cuff,it would not lend any credibility to the telling.
I've also seen footage from weather satelites on documentaries, showing some pretty odd stuff flying around in orbit. There weren't supposed to be any other satelites in the area, at the time (the weather satelite owners checked this out). If they were millitary satelites, I suppose authorities could just have denied their presence, but it wouldn't make sense to fly them so close to weather satelites, and have such near misses as were caught on footage.
Anyway, after reading the government reports, I convinced that these are all just atmospheric phenomena, and weather ballons. :roll: Can't they come up with something remotely convincing????
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Oliver, did I not hear you once say you had experimented in mind altering substances in order to explore human psychology...
Or was that someone else.
:-)
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Hmm, that depends: only in as much as when you say 'was that someone else', it could possibly correctly refer to administering said substances to someone else. But look, mate, what I put in my boss's coffee during a performance appraisal, has nothing to do with wierd stuff hovering over hospital buildings.
In adition, I do not admit to such things in public...often.
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Laxative?
:evil:
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Have we met at some point?
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Yes, I'm your boss!
You're fired!
:laughing:
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Well, can I get you a coffe before I go?
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by Oliver:
Well, can I get you a coffe before I go?
Coffe? Before you go where... back to the asylum?
:-D
Are you sure, when you saw this phenomena, that you didn't stumble across an illegal rave and they turned the lasers off when they saw you?
:lol:
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On Saturday (10 June) UK's Channel 4 tv aired an excellent investigation into the whole UFO phenomenon. It provided some well researched evidence that the cold war was responsible for the American Government encouraging the UFO myth to help them hide their research efforts in places like Area 51 from the late 40s to the present day.
The 'flying saucer' may well have been part of that research. The US Government actually bought out one aeronautics company (was it McDonnel Douglas?) who'd built and flown doughnut shaped craft, said by top thinkers to be the future of high speed, covert aircraft. A film of the actual flights was shown. After the Government took control, the craft was never heard of again. However, it was probably seen many times by the public who were already conditioned to the myth and encouraged to shout 'aliens!'.
They even got the Russians hooked after an invasion of their airspace by an 'alien craft'. The biggest UFO search in history then started. Every single soldier in the USSR was ordered to watch the skies every night and report any 'UFOs'. That search continued for thirteen years! It seems the Russians rightly suspected the USA was behind it all.
Considering the phenomenal technologies developed by the USA in the aftermath of the U2 fiasco, what they have today is undoubtedly the stuff of science fiction. Considering the Blackbird (http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/sr-71/) spy plane was travelling at Mach3 in the early 60s, today even the fabled Aurora project is almost undoubtedly fact.
Imagine what you would think if a hypersonic craft flew past you! UFO? Aliens? Has to be.
Satellite photographic evidence was shown of a pulsed engine contrail traversing the whole USA, across the Atlantic, over Europe and over the old Soviet territories in not very many minutes. The speed was estimated at 8,000 mph. More on Aurora here. (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/aurora.html)
The Channel 4 investigator also visited a boffin's garage where he had what might be described as an anti-gravity drive fully operational. Even he doesn't know how it works, but the tinfoil and balsa wood machine was most definitely levitated. Mind blowing!
So, we don't need to look to the Cosmos to explain UFOs and such stuff. It's all man-made right here on Earth.
JaX
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Perhaps this snippet from the BBC website might shed some light on things:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/5079044.stm
It seems that British authorities are aware of US projects to field a hypersonic craft in service.
In 1994 an aircraft crashed mysteriously on approach to Boscombe Down airfield in the UK. Boscombe is operated by the DERA (Defence Evaluation and Research Agency)
http://www.militaryairshows.co.uk/unex5.htm
Described as being "twin tailled" (which rules out anything in the UK inventory), the craft was quickly surrounded by British secret service/special forces agents shortly after crashing and the wreckage was flown back to the USA.
Certainly, such a security operation would not normally be mounted to recover an F-15 (the only other twin tailled aircraft flying regularly from and around the UK):
http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/caab/articles/lakenheathcrash.htm
So what crashed?
Well, the USA operates F-15s in the UK (as per the above link), these fly from RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk. However the twin tails aren't "inward canted". This would also rule out the highly unlikely possibility of the aircraft being a USMC/USN F-18 or USN F-14.
Indeed, the only known jets with inward canted fins are the SR-71 (hardly fighter sized) and the F-117 prototype "Have Blue", which was redesigned with outward canted fins shortly after the first prototype flew.
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It was an SR-71. I would point out however, that most of that story has lots of flaws however. First of all there is no fixed wing aircraft in the US Fleet that fits in a C-5. The C-5 deck is 19 feet across and just under 14 feet tall, you can put the unmanned prowler in there, and an Apache if you are careful, but nothing fixed wing fits in the aircraft without completely shearing the wings and tail off and in many cases the landing gear.
-Tig
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@Tigger
I understand the SR-71 fleet went out of service in 1990 (but the USAF continued flying some until 1998). The 1994 Boscombe Down crash appears (according to the cited report) to involve a much more 'secret' vehicle than the Blackbird. The SR-71 was already on public display when that particular crash occurred.
You're right about fitting fixed wing craft into a C-5. The SR-71 is three times the width of the hold, but I've no idea how big, or small, the Aurora is.
I just read all this in Wikipedia following your assertion that it was an SR-71 that crashed. Are there any reports we could read?
JaX
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JaXanim wrote:
@Tigger
I understand the SR-71 fleet went out of service in 1990 (but the USAF continued flying some until 1998). The 1994 Boscombe Down crash appears (according to the cited report) to involve a much more 'secret' vehicle than the Blackbird. The SR-71 was already on public display when that particular crash occurred.
In 1981 we had a Blackbird declare an emergency and land at Eglin, my dad called me so I'd take the long way to get about as close to the bird as the roads would take me. Noone in the Air Force base crew was allowed to get close to the aircraft, its C130 Landed about 4 hours later, they fixed the bird, we had a big fight over who could refuel it, which led to a senior MS with a security clearance pumping JPL for the first time in years into the bird. It then took off, took in most of its fuel from a 135 and went home. This is what they did on a secured base, on US soil, in 1981. The plane wasnt a secret then either, but it was tarped as soon as they landed, etc.
You're right about fitting fixed wing craft into a C-5. The SR-71 is three times the width of the hold, but I've no idea how big, or small, the Aurora is.
Since my Apache fits in one, I'm very familiar with how big a C5 is, when we added longbow years ago, it was a big issue that it still be able to go into a Galaxy. Aurora is bigger then 19 feet across, the C5 came to repair the aircract not take it back.
I just read all this in Wikipedia following your assertion that it was an SR-71 that crashed. Are there any reports we could read?
I lived at Ramstein for years, and most who lived there will tell you stories about Blackbirds. If a blackbird got in trouble in Europe, a C5 from Ramstein would come fix it, thats standard OP, so though its fun to think its Aurora, most of what we know about Aurora give it much more a B-2 appearance (Or the cancelled stealth A-12) not an aircraft that is going to fit into a C5. A modified equipment SR-71, (my joke about Blackbirds is that there are 47 of them in 46 different configurations, which is partially true) makes much more sense, then a tiny secret aircraft so small they can fit it into a C-5, unless it was an predator, but that pretty tiny, though at that time it would have probably been secret, but of course the tail doesnt cant that way and it has a zero man crew.
-Tig
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An SR-71 doesn't have a forward hinged canopy.
I'm not suggesting what crashed at Boscombe during 1994 was the mythical Aurora (if it exists at all), but there has long been speculation that an A-12 (as in the cancelled US Navy stealth attacker) derivative was in use during the first Gulf war for identifying targets and vectoring the F-117s in over Baghdad. An advanced stealth craft being used as a modern day "pathfinder" with the ability to loiter over targets and illuminate targets for low flying attacker's laser guided munitions is a logical development.
Don't forget that the F-117 only carries two bombs in it's internal bay, no cannon or defensive armament is fitted so it's fairly limited in it's flexibility when compared to something like a Strike Eagle/Tornado/F-18E.
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PMC wrote:
An SR-71 doesn't have a forward hinged canopy.
Yeah, but the canopy does come off that way if its damaged or you need to get behind the control compartment.
I'm not suggesting what crashed at Boscombe during 1994 was the mythical Aurora (if it exists at all), but there has long been speculation that an A-12 (as in the cancelled US Navy stealth attacker) derivative was in use during the first Gulf war for identifying targets and vectoring the F-117s in over Baghdad.
A-12 was cancelled guys, I designed tons of stuff for it, I would love to believe the bird is flying, but its not, they day it was cancelled was a sad, sad day, though it was necessary given what Mac D had done to the program.
Don't forget that the F-117 only carries two bombs in it's internal bay, no cannon or defensive armament is fitted so it's fairly limited in it's flexibility when compared to something like a Strike Eagle/Tornado/F-18E.
A-12 had none either, though if if could have taken off with them (which it couldnt have on cancellation day), it would have had 4 weapon bays, not the two of the Nighthawk. But lets be honest, there isnt a stealth aircraft fielded today that wins a dogfight with an Eagle, in fact theres probably not an aircraft that wins a dogfight with the newest Eagle and an equal pilot, but thats a whole other discussion, and may change with Lockheeds new beasty, which looks good at Edwards when I'm out there.
-Tig
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Rather than carrying bombs, my theory was that a stealth plane could loiter unseen at altitude over targets and illuminate them with it's laser designator.
That way, the Tornados, Strike Eagles etc flying at low level have something to aim at and are thus capable of making a first pass attack, before the target even knows they are there.
Tigger wrote:
But lets be honest, there isnt a stealth aircraft fielded today that wins a dogfight with an Eagle, in fact theres probably not an aircraft that wins a dogfight with the newest Eagle and an equal pilot.
Saw a few circling over Suffolk prior to landing at Lakenhearh, they're still a damn handsome plane and judging by the tight formation they maintained, the pilots know a thing or two about keeping a plane steady. Pilots the world over are just show-offs at heart.
Still, I'm a huge fan of the old BAc Lightning which despite it's age remains the fastest aircraft ever operated by the RAF and could even show an Eagle a thing or two about climbing to altitude from a standing start.
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Tigger said:
"- - - the C5 came to repair the aircraft not take it back."
I was refering to one of the cited reports. (http://www.militaryairshows.co.uk/unex5.htm) I admit to knowing absolutely zilch about aircraft but it's interesting to compare eye witness reports with what is and isn't known as fact. The report (which is undoubtedly biased towards science fiction) does say the crashed plane was taken away in a C-5.
Have you any ideas about the trans-world 'knotted' contrail that was photographed by satellite? (see my earlier post). The tv program said it suggested a pulsed jet/rocket engine that's needed to acquire Mach 6 or whatever Aurora is said to attain. A couple of days ago, I saw reports of dozens of 'earth tremours' in the region it's said to get tested. I understand this is the effect of hypersonic speed, where the shock wave can't get away from the nose (something like that).
Cheers, JaX
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Dunno, but I'm wondering if the whole 'Aurora' thing isn't part of our apparent quest for a 'politically-acceptable ICBM:'
http://www.darpa.mil/tto/programs/falcon.htm (http://www.darpa.mil/tto/programs/falcon.htm)
(Current DARPA incarnation...)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/hyfly.htm
(More on previous testing...)
http://www.afa.org/magazine/Jan1999/0199mission.asp
(Nice shot of an aerospike test on a SR-71...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerospike_engine
(Seems toroid/annular configurations have become favored generally...)
I could be underestimating the need for a good reconaissance vehicle to scout the targets in the first place, of course... but stealth matters either way, and for some reason 'air strikes' don't create quite the furor that 'missile strikes' would.
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If they "Alien" life forms existed do you really think that the MOD would tell us?
NO of course not, it would not be in there interests to do so.
And why not?
Well............
1. Religion would take a nose dive.
2. Mass panic all over, are we truly ready for them?
3. Cult`s would be all over the place claiming that THEY had contact.
4. Most governments would try to grab a monopoly of there arrival.
5. Would we trust them?
6. Knowing man for how he truly is, some asshole some where would start a fight.
7. What would the muslims make of it? I suspect that to them it would be Alah coming down.
8. Personally for me, I would love the Idea if it meant it would be better for us.
9. What would we have to offer them? hmmmm how about cocain, drugs, booz, voilence, disrespect, arragance, greed, starting wars, killing, murder, stealing, rape, misstrust. Not a good start is it. (This is all fact)
10. Why on Earth would they come here apart from to observe us, we must be on the lower scale.
11. What good do we have? hmmmm Music, art, love, science, good deeds (now and then) apathy, (not all of us us are bad)
12. Lets face it, if they, were us, and we traveled to this world and made observations of how we behave and interact with each other, what would we think of us?
So if they do exist and I do think that they do, then its better to for our governments to lie to us, after all its what they are best at the world over.
Telling a pack of lies, we are on a need to know basis and WE DO NOT NEED TO KNOW.
Mike.
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There was an interesting program on Channel 5 last night called 'Stranger than Fiction'. Last week's episode focused on the competition between US and Russian surgeons in the transplant field (featuring two headed dogs and talk of human head transplants).
Anyway yesterday's episode was based on the Apollo 11 moon landing.
Now, myself and a few others like to keep a cynical view on this and whether or not it took place but the show did more to explain things this time.
It showed footage of the lunar module being tested on Earth with clips of Neil Armstrong ejecting from it after it went belly up.
The most interesting part of the documentary though was that when the astronauts got into space. They asked Houston something like "Where is the location of the S-IV" in relation to the last stage of the booster rocket. When Houston replied "It is 6,000 nautical miles away" the documentary explained that the crew had asked in this reserved manner (knowing others would be listening to the conversation) because they had seen an object with oval shapes around it hovering near the module. They didn't want to bring the mission into disrepute by suggesting 'something else' was up there with them!
When they went for some sleep, they reported seeing flashes of light. I initially thought this was leading to an explanation of radiation hitting their retinas from solar flares etc. but it turned out to be 'z-particles' penetrating the module and the crew.
Bizarre viewing and a welcome insight into the Apollo program. One wonders why such information has been kept from us for so long and why, nearly 40yrs on the technology has not been better utilised and exploited for the benefit of all mankind. Not just the "Eagle" that "landed".
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swift240 wrote:
7. What would the muslims make of it? I suspect that to them it would be Alah coming down.
Mike.
now that's pretty ignorant. allah does not have matter and form. nor will it ever have one. anyone claiming that an alien is allah would be considered a heretic in islamic belief.
actually, extraterrestial life is mentioned in qoran. The existance of extraterrestials is no big deal for muslims. However, as far as I know, this other life forms should also have been sent islam, according to islamic belief. So, if our visiting aliens do not happen to be muslims, the muslim world could see them as heretics and we could see suicide bombers heading for alpha centauri.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aliens_in_quran.htm
http://www.doomsdayguide.org/UFO/ufo_and_jinn.htm
64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Mk0_qIs-mNQJ:www.themodernreligion.com/science/aliens.htm+islam+and+aliens&hl=en&gl=jp&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a
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by countzero:
So, if our visiting aliens do not happen to be muslims, the muslim world could see them as heretics and we could see suicide bombers heading for alpha centauri.
Where would they store the explosives... Uranus?
:laughing:
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Hang on a second, you claim that Alah does not have matter or form..........
If you belive that (and thats fine by me, no offence here) then for all you know Alah may be nothing at all, just a piece of imagination that like all others have been formed from some one who wants power over others, look at history itself, that sort of thing is all over the place to keep the masses in order.
This is like every thing else put it in a book call it a bible or some other word that suits at the time and tell every one that its all true and then expect the gullible to fall in with it.
But any way, UFO`s either exist or they don`t. or better still alien life forms either exist or they don`t.
And if we take it that Alah does exist, then be shear definition Alah like all other man made God`s are Aliens (as the word Alien means a life form that does not originate from this world.)
Or do you think that is ignorant to?
But that may lead to another thing altogether.
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I think without question that UFOs exist: just consider the definition of that acronym:
UNIDENTIFIED Flying Object.
anything flying is a UFO until someone goes recognises it or it identifies itself by communicating to ground control. subtle point !
one man's UFO is another man's weather balloon...
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anyone have an opinion on these.
USO'S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_submarine_object)
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Unidentified Submerged Objects... hah, sounds like The Loch Ness Monster...
.. speaking of which, did you see that guy on the news yesterday who discovered a complete Plesiosaur vertebrae on a rockface somewhere in England?
I'm convinced that since there are 65,000 NORAD tracked orbiting entities around Earth that a good proportion of them are spy satellites and their launch stages.
The US is content to let the UFO thing spiral into mysticism because basically the isolationist egotistic arrogance that pervades this country generally keeps it from civil war. Let's hope people start questioning the US military establishment about it's Zionist agenda as opposed to it's Good Year Blimps.
Currently the UK is experiencing UFOs... Unauthorised Flights of Ordnance... I refer to the US passenger planes switched at the last minute for cargo planes filled with missiles for the Israelis to use on the Lebanese women and children...