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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: x56h34 on May 07, 2006, 01:59:11 AM
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As many of you already know, DCE continued manufacturing Blizzard accelerator cards for Amiga 1200 after acquiring rights from Phase 5.
In the case of DCE Blizzard 1230, 1240, and 1260 lines, the on-board battery has been changed from the standard VL2020 Panasonic rechargeable lithium battery, to the regular CR2032 Varta Lithium battery (non-rechargeable).
Now, the standard Phase 5 used VL2020 is a special type of rechargeable lithium battery and while your Amiga is on, it recharges through the accelerator. The regular CR2032 could potentially explode if tried to be recharged.
Recently, I've desoldered the CR2032 battery from my DCE Blizzard 1260 accelerator and replaced it with a brand new VL2020. To my surprise, VL2020 started to receive charge and it was recharging normally as it does on Phase 5 made Blizzards.
Could it be that Blizzards auto sense which type of battery is used and according to type recharge or not recharge it?
This would be good to know, as there could be a lot of DCE made Blizzards out there with dangerous regular non-rechargeable CR2032 lithium batteries on them which could explode by receiving charge.
Anyway, just wondering if anyone knew an answer to this puzzle. :-)
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Yikes that sounds dodgy!
DCE's reputation took a beating in the later years with the CyberStorm PPCs all going back for repair and disappearing into a black hole.
Also, my SCSI-IV kit is a v8.5 DCE version and isn't too reliable. Not only did I get it new and it lacked a rear expansion retainer but it has nasty transmission errors all the time and a giant capacitor where the 2nd SIMM should rest.
CR2032 is ridiculous, particularly soldered on!
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Where did you get the information from?
I also have a Varta battery on mijn Blizzrd 1260 an used it about six years.
Most new PC motherboards also use the same battery 2032.
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Hmm, please dont make this another "im mad at DCE so i have to spread dirt" thread.
Ok, i havent got a DCE board near me so i had to look at a picture of it.
I noticed a difference between the Phase5 and DCE version, the DCE has a diode instead of (what i think it is) the charging resistor.
(Near the 150 pin connector, between the battery and the crystal.)
It would be perfectly ok to use a CR2032 if you just modify the board, and im sure DCE also did it.
I dont understand why you got the idea to replace a CR2032 with a VL2020 in the first place..?
I do respect that people are angry at DCE but personally i have never had ANY problem with their products.
"Could it be that Blizzards auto sense which type of battery is used and according to type recharge or not recharge it?"
No, if a CR2032 is used, you should replace it with a CR2032.
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"Hmm, please dont make this another "im mad at DCE so i have to spread dirt" thread."
why not? its against the Geneve Convention?
They are doing a good job NOW with the NG Amiga mobos but they still thieves for most of us. (remember the dozens Classic board NEVER returned back)
@x56h34
if your card was brand new and you are 100% sure that the battery was never replaced, then yes it was theyr fault. (not really a news) ;-)
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"hey are doing a good job NOW with the NG Amiga mobos"
Are they making new mobos really? I thounght it was eyetech.
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apart that eyetech is making and has never made a bleep (they are not an HW manufacturer), i was speaking about Pegasos, eh!
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Framiga wrote:
"Hmm, please dont make this another "im mad at DCE so i have to spread dirt" thread."
why not? its against the Geneve Convention?
What i mean is that i dont want any more false rumours, making Blizzard 1260 owners nervous and changing battery to wrong type and maybe destroying their card while doing so.
No offence,if youre angry with DCE of course tell us about it, no problem.
Im just tired of rumours that are not true...
Some other "facts" that are floating around:
1.DCE made Blizzard 1260 has no 68020 fallback mode: not true...
2.DCE made turbocards are badly soldered: well i have had both a Phase 5 and a DCE 1260.
The DCE made was much better soldered.
3.Phase5 Blizzard 1260 are of higher quality than the DCE 1260: i had no problem with my DCE card, my Phase5 failed and i had to change cpu.
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@PG:
I am not trying to put down DCE in any way. I am just trying to get educated on the topic, that's all.
I've replaced the battery since the VL2020 usually works rock solid for 10+ years (I've never had a P5 card with a VL2020 that needed to be replaced yet due to being dead) unlike the regular CR2032 which on my 1260 card was around 5 or 6 years old already, and I simply wanted to swap it. :-)
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Ok, after some reading i understand more why many people are so angry with DCE...
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My DCE SCSI-IV kit had design flaws and bits missing that the Phase 5 version didn't (despite having an updated ROM). No retainer bracket for the rear expansion port and a capacitor blocking the 2nd SIMM slot - and I bought this brand new.
I remember the hassle of changing the dual-CR2032 setup on the Sega Dreamcast's 'VM' memory cards and they cost 5 GBP a pair! They would slowly drain down and you couldn't charge them back up. The same for the N64 memory paks and the Sega Saturn's internal RAM.
The VL2020 type can be recharged. Who wants to keep putting batteries into their Amiga trapdoor every 3-6 months and then into landfill?
And here's another tip: If you want a PCMCIA SRAM card for memory or solid state disk access look for the Centennial brand as the Mitsubishi Melcard uses the same cruddy CR2032 batteries.
Think of the environment, think of your wallet, think of your time - DCE may have screwed up on this but I love them. If just for the SX32-Pro.
:-D
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"The VL2020 type can be recharged. Who wants to keep putting batteries into their Amiga trapdoor every 3-6 months and then into landfill?"
Yes, VL2020 is a rechargable battery, but you cant just replace a CR2032 with VL2020 if the board is designed for a CR2032.
And, a CR2032 will last much longer than 3-6 months, that is a fact.
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What confuses me is that a VL2020 works fine and keeps recharging on a DCE B1260 card, after removing the original CR2032 from it.
I guess it could be that either type can be used with Blizzards, but DCE simply wanted to save money on production and did not include the more expensive VL2020. Just a guess. :-?
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To be honest it confuses me to.
Are you sure about this, how have you measured the loading current?
Normally, you CAN (if you know what you are doing) replace a rechargable battery (for example a VL2020) with a NON-rechargable but then you have to find and replace the charging resistor with a diode.
So you only have current flowing in one direction and no loading current.
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Would you solder on the CR2032 though? Where would that leave the consumer when its' charge died?
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What is the difference between a soldered CR2032 and a soldered rechargeable battery?
Havent you seen the leaking (rechargable) batterys on Amiga 4000 and Apollo 1240, they are soldered arent they?
Even a rechargable battery (VL2020 included) wont last forever.
I dont think the consumer is in a much worse position with a CR2032 than with a VL2020.
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I've got a DCE scandoubler, g-rex 1200 and BPPC, all working fine ... stop accusing them, the quality of their products is fine, maybe the personell is wrong... those things are irrelevant to each other...
EDIT: Just ckecked my DCE BPPC, it has a Panasonick VL2020 battery...
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The only place where non-rechargeable batteries are soldered permanently is novelty monkeys from a kids' shop!
Even early 90's 386s had rechargeable batteries and yes, the A4000 ones leak - because they're 14 years old and the size of house!
:-D
Apollo cards were never up to the standard of Phase 5 cards, they made a 75Mhz '060 board with no FPU.It got 10% less score than the 50Mhz Phase 5 '1260 in Amiga Format.
Maybe in the future our time will be kept by the internet or radio waves. Pity help us if a virus targets that though!
;-)
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Hyperspeed wrote:
The only place where non-rechargeable batteries are soldered permanently is novelty monkeys from a kids' shop!
Well, your obviously not an expert in electronics.
Here is another novelty monkey for you.. ;-)
http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=t1230
Even early 90's 386s had rechargeable batteries and yes, the A4000 ones leak - because they're 14 years old and the size of house!
:-D
If you didnt knew it, most modern PC:s use CR2032 as backup battery.
Apollo cards were never up to the standard of Phase 5 cards, they made a 75Mhz '060 board with no FPU.It got 10% less score than the 50Mhz Phase 5 '1260 in Amiga Format.
Phase5 AND DCE Blizzard 1260 cards has the same problem.
Ever tried to clock a Blizzard 1260 in 75Mhz?
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by PG:
Well, your obviously not an expert in electronics.
Here is another novelty monkey for you..
http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=t1230
Oh Jesus, Mtech/Apollo accelerators... I think I'll take the novelty monkey. Those boards were so cheaply designed they probably knew the battery would outlast the board!
:-)
by PG:
If you didnt knew it, most modern PC:s use CR2032 as backup battery.
Yes, with a replaceable clip to pull them out when they die. You can replace them without having the need for an electronics degree.
by PG:
Phase5 AND DCE Blizzard 1260 cards has the same problem.
Ever tried to clock a Blizzard 1260 in 75Mhz?
No, because Phase5 used the XC68060RC50A which has a full FPU and MMU. It is however widely in use at 66Mhz and far more reliable.
I always remember the Amiga Format reviews of the Blizzard cards and they were basically like Ferrari to the Apollo/Magnum boards (the Ladas).
Now, I'm going to spank my novelty monkey.
:-D
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My SX32 Pro's battery Exploded! it was loud too..thank goodness it didnt damage my CD32
(the SX32 was made by DCE correct?)
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So, you DO have a modern PC..?
Have you replaced your CR2032 with a rechargable battery yet?.. ;-)
(After all, that was what this thread was all about, to begin with)
Quote:
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by PG:
Phase5 AND DCE Blizzard 1260 cards has the same problem.
Ever tried to clock a Blizzard 1260 in 75Mhz?
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No, because Phase5 used the XC68060RC50A which has a full FPU and MMU.
So did ACT with their A1260 50 Mhz version.
It is however widely in use at 66Mhz and far more reliable.
So you say, and you know what you are talking about from your own experience?
I always remember the Amiga Format reviews of the Blizzard cards and they were basically like Ferrari to the Apollo/Magnum boards (the Ladas).
You shouldnt believe everything you read, you know.
Sure there are people that will agree with you, but also others that are very happy with their Apollo:s.
I agree with you to the point that i also think the Blizzard is a better card in many ways, for example its memory design.
The Apollo is however slightly faster.
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I didn't use any equipment to measure if the VL2020 is receiving charge when installed on the B1260, however this particular battery has been sitting new and unused in my storage for a few years and during that time it would be pretty much safe to assume that the battery has been discharged due to lack of usage, so as soon as I've installed it and let it recharge for a few hours, powered off and powered back on my A1200, the time was correct, so it would be safe to assume that it is recharging.
In any case, I've spoken to a friend of mine who used to be an Amiga repairman back in the day, and he says that Blizzards most probably have an RTC clock chip on-board which is autosensing the battery type. This could be proven by reading the chip's model # and looking up the specs through Google, but unfortunatelly the chip itself is covered by the battery, and I don't want to desolder it just to be able to read the chip's model number. :-)
Anyway, I guess I'll see how the card behaves in regards to keeping the time correctly for the next few months and in case it completely loses time at some point, I'll assume that the VL2020 is recharging.
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x56h34 wrote:
I didn't use any equipment to measure if the VL2020 is receiving charge when installed on the B1260, however this particular battery has been sitting new and unused in my storage for a few years and during that time it would be pretty much safe to assume that the battery has been discharged due to lack of usage, so as soon as I've installed it and let it recharge for a few hours, powered off and powered back on my A1200, the time was correct, so it would be safe to assume that it is recharging.
Ok, thanks for explaining that, i think the puzzle is solved..:-)
You know, even if your battery has been in storage in many years, it should still be 2-3v.
That is why your time is correct and it doesnt prove that the battery is recharging, i think its not.
In any case, I've spoken to a friend of mine who used to be an Amiga repairman back in the day, and he says that Blizzards most probably have an RTC clock chip on-board which is autosensing the battery type.
No offence, I dont want to miscredit your friend but i say thats impossible.
This could be proven by reading the chip's model # and looking up the specs through Google, but unfortunatelly the chip itself is covered by the battery, and I don't want to desolder it just to be able to read the chip's model number. :-)
As i said before i dont have a DCE 1260 near me but i checked the Phase5 version and the chip is a M6242B from OKI.
I checked the data sheet (just to be sure..:-) and it doesnt have any such feature.
Im pretty sure the DCE version has the same chip.
Anyway, I guess I'll see how the card behaves in regards to keeping the time correctly for the next few months and in case it completely loses time at some point, I'll assume that the VL2020 is recharging.
:-)
I think it could take some time before your VL2020 drops below 2V (M6242B wants at least 2V battery backup)
but when it does i suggest you replace the battery with a CR2032.
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Hehe, it's a tough call to make without proper equipment to prove facts. :-)
By looking at the pictures of Phase 5 B1260 rev II and DCE B1260 cards, they look identical, other than the battery.
I guess I could always install a socketed CR2032, should my VL2020 turn out to not recharge. :-D
I'm just wondering in case you are right about the clock chip not being auto-sensing of the type of battery, then which component is responsible for not letting the battery receive charge (in case of DCE B1260)? You can take a look (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/dce1260_fr_big.jpg) at the picture of DCE B1260 found on the Big Book of Amiga Hardware site, and check here (http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=blizzard1260&file=Blizzard1260) for a picture of Phase 5 rev II card.
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x56h34 wrote:
Hehe, it's a tough call to make without proper equipment to prove facts. :-)
I have the opposite, proper equipment but not a DCE card..;-)
By looking at the pictures of Phase 5 B1260 rev II and DCE B1260 cards, they look identical, other than the battery.
I guess I could always install a socketed CR2032, should my VL2020 turn out to not recharge. :-D
It is a really good idea if you want to be able to change battery, without having to desolder it.
But, i think there might be a height problem, if you want to use your card in a desktop A1200.
I would take the easy way out and just solder in a new CR2032, it will last for years.
I'm just wondering in case you are right about the clock chip not being auto-sensing of the type of battery, then which component is responsible for not letting the battery receive charge (in case of DCE B1260)? You can take a look (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/dce1260_fr_big.jpg) at the picture of DCE B1260 found on the Big Book of Amiga Hardware site, and check here (http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=blizzard1260&file=Blizzard1260) for a picture of Phase 5 rev II card.
Yes, if you look closely at the picture you will find that the DCE card has a diode instead of the 330 ohm resistor that the Phase5 version has.
Look below the battery, to the left.
There might be other changes to, so please dont just change the diode to a resistor on your card.
If you do so, you take the risk of damaging your card.
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PG wrote:
Yes, if you look closely at the picture you will find that the DCE card has a diode instead of the 330 ohm resistor that the Phase5 version has.
Look below the battery, to the left.
There might be other changes to, so please dont just change the diode to a resistor on your card.
If you do so, you take the risk of damaging your card.
Yes I see it. There's also some components that are missing on the DCE card just above the simm socket (blank solder pads) and I've just noticed that my own DCE card is also missing a capacitor (at least I think it's a capacitor :-)) just underneath the battery at the very edge of the card. Weird. :-?
I hope those are all effects of design changes (depending of production batches at DCE) and not actual missing parts. :-)