Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: mr_a500 on April 01, 2006, 06:07:44 PM
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The point of this thread is not to debate which is the best OS or babble mindlessly about an Amiga comeback. I want to hear what you think are great things about the Amiga Workbench that other operating systems still don't have in 2006 and wish they did. (no need to point out things Amiga doesn't have ;-) ) I'm more interested in hearing about specific things from a user perspective rather than "lack of bloat" and "doesn't suck like Windows" type statements.
Here are some things that I love about Workbench and I haven't found elsewhere:
Multiple screens: each application can have its own screen with different resolution/depth and fast flipping/dragging between them
Window depth: windows don't move to the front automatically when you click on them and they have depth gadgets to move to front or back (I LOVE this feature! Automatic click to front on other OSes makes me sick!)
Use or Save: unlike other operating systems, you can use current settings without saving them permanently or save them instantly and permanently - without waiting for "shutdown" for it to actually save (forget the Windows Apply/OK - both buttons do exactly the same thing - save at shutdown!)
Icon/Window Snapshot: unlike other operating systems, you can move icons and change window sizes without the change being permanent unless you specifically want to by snapshotting
Animated Icons: one image for normal, one for selected
All icons can be changed: separate info file for icons meaning every single icon can be changed
Leave out: icons can be left out on desktop without making a "shortcut"
Assigns: assign token to shorten long paths
No virtual memory: turn off computer instead of annoying shutdown (no constant HD swapping)
No keyboard/mouse buffering: actions not stored when system busy - avoids actions happening later when you don't want them (software dependent on Amiga, not OS - of Amiga programs, I think only IBrowse buffers - and I wish it didn't)
Windows not moved off screen: prevents "lost" windows, don't have to carefully move windows to avoid them being half off screen
Almost all characters can be used in filenames: only two characters can't be used - colon and slash (Windows can't even use question mark!!) even multiple "." can be used for elipses (try that on Windows)
Standard installer with readable text: you can read exactly what the install will do, edit it if you want or install manually (with other OSes, you don't know and have to trust it not to trash your system)
Help key: yes this is hardware, not OS - but still, why does everybody else have F1 for Help? It seems pretty lame to me. (yes I know, for historical compatibility)
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shift delete, shift cursor keys. Really annoys me when I'm not on amiga and I cant shift delete. Quick simple easy and very usefull
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shift delete, shift cursor keys. Really annoys me when I'm not on amiga and I cant shift delete. Quick simple easy and very usefull
Yeah! I forgot about that one.
And Shift-Up for Pg-Up and Shift-Down for Pg-Dn. It's much better than reaching for the paging keys because you've usually already got your fingers on the arrow keys when reading pages.
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@mr_a500
I agree about screen-dragging. I really miss that in P96 :-( And the window cycle gadget is much more user-friendly than windows automatically coming to the front when you click them.
Actually, I agree with all of your points :-) Workbench for me is the perfect interface. Other desktops, even OSX (which I love) don't come close.
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moto
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i like the fact that you can use the keyboard to move the mouse curser if you want. if you are working on a document you can keep your hands right on the keyboard.
i agree with most of your points except for virtual memory and disk cache stuff. shutdown isnt really that much of a hastle and the added performance way more than makes up for the few seconds you wait (if you do wait) for the system to shut down
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mr_a500 wrote:
Window depth: windows don't move to the front automatically when you click on them and they have depth gadgets to move to front or back (I LOVE this feature! Automatic click to front on other OSes makes me sick!)
This is the only feaure I miss from modern desktops.
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Leave out: icons can be left out on desktop without making a "shortcut"
Mmhh.. I dont see difference.
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i agree with most of your points except for virtual memory and disk cache stuff. shutdown isnt really that much of a hastle and the added performance way more than makes up for the few seconds you wait (if you do wait) for the system to shut down
Hmm, I didn't say anything about disk cache :-).
About the virtual memory - I developed a hatred for that using Windows 95, NT and XP at work over the years. On Win95, I had fun with "out of diskspace never-ending virtual swapping hell" a few times. On NT, shutdown regularly took 2 minutes and occasionally never shutdown and I had to just turn off after waiting a half hour. XP was faster, but still usually took over 1 minute - a major pain in the ass when you're in a hurry. Over the years I think I had around 7 harddrives replaced on my work computers because of corruption caused by failures when writing swap files (2 on XP).
I tried OSX a few times and shutdown was nice and fast. Maybe it's just Windows ;-).
Mmhh.. I dont see difference.
Yeah, that was one of my weaker points. Forget the "leave out" option then. ;-)
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ill have WB 3.0 with my A1200 when it comes.
wonder if i can get AmigaOS3.1 on a 3.0 ROM Chip ??
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i added disk cache because that is one reason you cant just kill modern system not because you mentioned it you notice i put what you said first
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Ah, got it. :-)
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Believe it or not, I like the Intuition menus, especially when coupled with a commodity like MagicMenu.
So much more "Intuitive"(sorry!) than the standard Windows "right-click" menus.
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It is a matter of what you are used to I guess. I work with WindowsXP so much that I no longer see any drawbacks interface wise. What I like about AmigaOS is that it is lean. Now that is ofcouse also because it hasn't developed for some time. Windows COM components drive me sick. If you install loads of them you are in for some swappin. Thank god .net is making them obsolete. Anyway AmigaOS doen't have something like that. So for me it is pure nostalgia that gives it the edge. It doesn't even use virtual memory (swap file). Then again it leaks memory like crazy (at least my setup does).
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I love the Amigas Ram disk!.. I wonder if any other os has such a thing..
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One small, but very practical feature is, that you can emulate a mouse using the keyboard. I'd love to be able to do that in Windows!
The default workbench/drawer system is very simple. I like having nothing but the drives on the bench.
Autodetection of floppies is pretty, neat, although useless. B-) PC's can also do that, but no OS'es support it.
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Yes, I like the RAM disk and right-click for menu too. I would have mentioned the "menu at top of screen instead of on windows" as an advantage, but Mac has this too.
Autodetection of floppies is pretty, neat, although useless. B-) PC's can also do that, but no OS'es support it.
I don't think autodetection of floppies is useless - it's quite convenient actually. In WB, when asked to insert a floppy and you insert it, you don't have to click "OK" - it just knows it's there. In Windows, you had to click on a requester or in explorer press F5 to refresh. I didn't mention it because Mac has autodetection too and this thread is about Amiga-only advantages. :-)
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When you have cd filesystem installed you get on the workbench a CD image/icon once the cd-disk is initialized, valid file format is read and the disk.icon found and displayed! Woot.. wtg WorkBench!
Also, a feature of WorkBench 3.1 was smart window refresh! amazing, when a window with text is displayed UNDER another window, it smart refreshes all text in that window!
No more Micro$oft Winblowz large blank rectangular random colour on display until the OS decides a screen refresh should happen... hmmm 30 seconds later maybe? whats the rush, its only the working screen area the user needs :-p
Az
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Man... is there someone still using FLOPPIES in the year 2006???? Everyone today in the real world is using USB memory sticks.
Geez.
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Man... is there someone still using FLOPPIES in the year 2006???? Everyone today in the real world is using USB memory sticks.
Geez.
What? It's 2006??? The last thing I remember was setting my time machine for 1989 and then... ah hell, the damn thing must have malfunctioned again. ;-)
Actually I only use floppies to WHDinstall the odd demo that's only in ADF format or back up a few small important things. Notice how I didn't include floppy auto-detection as one of my "Amiga advantages".
No more Micro$oft Winblowz large blank rectangular random colour on display until the OS decides a screen refresh should happen... hmmm 30 seconds later maybe? whats the rush, its only the working screen area the user needs :-p
I hate a lot of things about Windows, but one of the things that annoys me most (after the registry, of course) is the priority Windows has for screen redraws. A 1989 33Mhz Amiga might be a bit slow at screen redraws now and then, but it is absolutely pathetic for a 2006 3Ghz Windows computer with monster graphics card to regularly leave the screen half-drawn while it goes and does something in the background!
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who could forget... Amiga OS and WorkBench are VOLUME sensative.. you can path to not only device but also to volume, no other OS I know of has this ability!
Yay for Amiga :-)
Az
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This is totally a useless thread because none of these things are "unique" anymore. They exist elsewhere even on windows.. My F1 key says HELP on it :-)
The one thing I like about Amiga Workbench (and I hope wanderer gets this hey Aros GUYS!) Is snapshoted ICON positioning and .info files for icons.
I think the most annoying feature I could think of is AppICONS and how they are implemented. The idea is a good one, but no one has used them very effectively.
For those who doubt my post, about Windows doing all this stuff don't make me post a 3 page reply with graphics as proof.. It's such a waste of time here for an Amiga focused forum. We all don't live in 1991 here so please as the previous poster said keep this on point.. I personally would like to see an Classic AmigaOS/AROS extension that allows the CLI to also let us use UNC (UNIVERSAL naming conventions).
Universal Naming Convention Info (http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci214159,00.html)
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I like the way you can create any screenmode you like using P96 or CGX.
Say for example you want to play a SNES emulator, you can go into P96mode and create a 256x224 screenmode, run the SNES emulator, and select the newly-made screenmode in the requester box. Now you can play full-screen SNES games just like on a real SNES.
On PC / Windows you can't create your own screenmodes, just choose from standard Vesa modes. So for a 256x224 SNES display you'd have to play in 320x200 with borders left and right and with part of the top/bottom chopped off, or in 512 x 384 with big borders left / right / top / bottom, or in a higher res mode with the pixels 'stretched to fit' which never looks right.
If for some reason you want a 946 x 573 Workbench screen, you can do it, but if you want a 946 x 573 Windows screen, you're stuck.
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For those who doubt my post, about Windows doing all this stuff don't make me post a 3 page reply with graphics as proof..
Uh, I doubt your post and would be pleased if you could post a 3 page reply. ;-)
I know there are hacks to add "always on top" gadgets, have a "virtual desktop" with multiple screens (same resolution/depth) and I'm sure there are fancy animated icon hacks. And of course you could disable virtual memory. (and watch the crashes)
But I'd love for you to point out how:
1. Each application can run on its own screen with different modes/depths with "fast" flipping and draging (none of that wait for monitor to painfully switch crap)
2. ALL settings in Windows can be Used or Saved instantly and permanently - see first post for detail (permanently means that they won't mysteriously change back to MS defaults!)
3. You can prevent windows from being moved off screen
4. All characters except colon and forward slash can be used in filenames (that includes backslash!)
5. All install files for Windows applications are in plain text (this is a tough one - if you can show me that, I'm impressed)
If you can't show me these exact points, then Windows can't do it and this thread isn't useless.
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@mr_a500
this Thread is DEFINITELTY NOT useless..............it reminds us all why we still love using our Amigas and Proud of it.......(for those of us who still use them as Main machines)
And by the way the LEAVE OUT is a beautiful feature Ten times easier than freakin Windows..........I hate SHortCuts...............its nice to be able to put your toys away back where they came from Super easily..........and once again take them out if you wish. Thats the LEAVE OUT and PUT AWAY feature for ya.
and the Amiga Menu (Cuopled with ToolsDaemon and MagicMenu) is a killer...........like it better than START menu and FINDER on the Mac.
Now I am a little more assured of using my Amiga after these reminders of the Good things about Amiga and Workbench :-)
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well I see that some ppl here don't know very well windows features or gfx cards features or
1-virtual memory can be disabled on windows but someone here point that no virtual memory is a workbench advantage
2-you can create your own reolutions on windows on any new nvidia or ati card but someone here point that on workbench is possible
3-surfing through screens is also possible on windows pressing ALT-TAB
4-(amigaos shutdown is faster) ????
I never shutdown my computer using windows buttons...that's is for lamer users
also I have disabled scandisk or checkdisk to not work after a bad shutdown
I see that lamer windows users still don't know that
5-the only adantege of amigaOS is that boot faster that any windows version
btw,
Lando,
1-create you own resolutions on window is possible using original software ot third party utilities like power strip or rivatuner.I create my own (680x576) only for use with winuae to simulate a perfect amiga PAL screen
2-why you want create a 256x222 screen for nintendo when the visual quality is lot better using a resolution of 1600x1200 with hardware strech and a 2xsai filter ?
maybe you have a pc with an old gfx card? or
maybe you are a newbie on emulator zone?
bye,Laser
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Laser wrote:
I never shutdown my computer using windows buttons...that's is for lamer users
also I have disabled scandisk or checkdisk to not work after a bad shutdown
I see that lamer windows users still don't know that
or
maybe you are a newbie on emulator zone?
You must be very 1337 then.
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For me the big advantage of workbench is the small footprint and user friendlyness. Its true multitasking abilityies and low memory use.
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odin,
I don't know what the hell is that 1337
anyways I like that number
and anyways I see that some ppl here in this forum still live in primates times
and some lives in a world of NOSTALGIA
10 years ago:
Windows 95 =5
Workbench =5
The amiga user should be more objetive
cause the reality is diferen now:
Windows XP SP2 = 10
Workbench 3.9 = 0
that's the reality
anyways I like amiga os and sometimes use it but I not live in the past
bye, Laser
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@Lando
Say for example you want to play a SNES emulator, you can go into P96mode and create a 256x224 screenmode, run the SNES emulator, and select the newly-made screenmode in the requester box. Now you can play full-screen SNES games just like on a real SNES.
I'd say the most optimal would be if that particular SNES emulator supports overlay. With an overlay support a window, no matter what are its dimensions, can be zoomed to a fullscreen size.
I remember when I was viewing MPGs on my A1200/BPPC with AGA and I created optimal screen modes for video playback. Today I just use MPlayer on Pegasos to play those same videos and by pressing 'f' I get it scaled to the fullscreen. All this without special configuring from the user...
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Unfortunately, my clearest memories of WB are of v1.3 on an 1meg A500, it was ugly, slow as hell and difficult to navigate. I think this is what the majority of past Amiga (specifically A500) users will remeber. Not everyone went on to own big box expanded machines.
Later, I had an A1200 running 3.1 and a PC running win 95, the PC blew the 1200 away for versatility, usefulness and speed, the Amiga was more fun, though it could be a real pain in the ass if the machine crashed during an install, which happened surprisingly often with aging floppies and drives.
For me, comparing my WB experience on both these machines to modern OSes like XP, OSX or Linux running KDE and I seriously wonder why anyone would torture themselves?
I have used WB3.9 under emulation, (with Picasso Gfx ect) and it is quite nice but lacks the feel of cohesion of a modern "cling-wrapped" OS like XP or OSX, and is ultimately more a novelty than anything else.
Having said that if OS4 got ported to cheap hardware I'd be on it like flies on this guy; :horse:
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"3-surfing through screens is also possible on windows pressing ALT-TAB"
But can you configure it to change the screens immediately? I think it's much, much faster to switch to right screen, when you can see the actual screen when browsing with amiga-m than trying to figure out from small icons and text which is the right program to jump with alt-tab.
As said before, I love too the shift/alt/ctrl + arrow keys/del/backspace behaviour on Amiga. It's so quick to modify url in browser with shift-del for example... than paint wanted area with mouse or removing chars by pressing del long time etc. And getting wanted shell command from buffer... you don't have to browse all used commands with up arrow, you just can enter couple of first chars from wanted command and then press shift-up. This I'd really like to linux etc systems too!
Other thing is that different windows won't take too much space on screen. There isn't that much useless stuff on windows like on Windows :) Like menus visible on every window and too much extra space here and there...
And datatypes are great IMHO. I don't know if there's yet similar system on other platforms, but it just great that you can add support for new formats for several programs by installing one datatype. Remember the PNG issue? With datatypes Windows's browsers would have worked with png years earlier :) Amiga's browsers had support for it way before Windows :)
I also like that enter accepts the current input, not the whole window ;) Like in settings on Windows... enter means OK and closes the whole thing. I like Amiga's way when enter leads you to next option. It's logical from text editors for example.. you write line, press enter and you'll be on next line. It doesn't save all the changes and close the editor :)
And disk requesters and volume names on Amiga are just great. You can for example take CD out while reading it. Requester pops up and asks you insert that particular CD in drive, but you can insert some other CD, do the stuff with it, remove it and then insert the original CD on drive and original task continues. Try it with Windows for example and get in the blue screen h*ll :)
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"DEVS:" and "ENV:" were brilliant.
I also like the fact that AmigaOS uses volumes (instead of the mount points like UNIX does), and actual allows you to use NAMES for them. I always get my CD-ROMs confused, and it would be soooo much easier to just name them "CD:" and "CDR:"
The only drawback is that the colon is not very friendly to Internet connections, where it defines the protocol. Then again, Macs used to use colons as directory separators so you could use slashes in filenames (!), and Apple eventually made the migration to slashes.
All I care about is I don't have to worry about "../" causing problems. I hate having to do filtering on all my paths when writing web scripts. It would be so much nicer to just use "forum:", "forum-tpl:", "forum-pics:", and so on. Security would be a snap.
mra500: No virtual memory: turn off computer instead of annoying shutdown (no constant HD swapping)
Against my better judgement, I agree. Virtual memory used to be a crutch. Then, somebody got the idea of using it to "free" memory, which is dumb because maybe data shouldn't be in memory in the first place. Read it off the drive, then put it right back, so you have two copies. Great. Then, game programmers figured if they allocate tons of memory, it will force Windows to swap out EVERYTHING to VM, giving them the maximum amound of physical memory. That screws up background processes, causes swapping hell when you quit the game, and lots of other problems. I hate it when games allocate 900MB+ of memory when my system has 512.
As for shutting down, that's because of buffers. Windows is TERRIBLE with buffers, as it takes forever to write them. If you read a Flash card, it can take minutes if not hours for the buffers to be cleared, and if you take the card out, Windows will still complain even if the buffers are empty. It's sickening.
mra500: Window depth
Oh my God... I HATE the way AmigaOS does it! It seemed so lovely back in 1988 when the only alternative I had was a crappy Mac, but today I simply cannot stand it. It should be possible to move windows wihtout selecting them, which would have the same effect, or being able to "chain" windows together into groups. I'd love to be able to have a command prompt and a GUI view for a directory at the same time, in the same window. The Windows shell is braindead.
Then again, I hate tabbed browsing and use the taskbar to manage a dozen windows at once. Windows doesn't move things around on the taskbar randomly like other OSes will. I'm a Windows taskbar junkie. If only I could drag-and-drop to the taskbar (WTF, MS?! ADD THAT!!!)
bilko9070: I love the Amigas Ram disk!.. I wonder if any other os has such a thing..
There is a RAM disk driver for Windows, but it's a fixed disk size, so it's not that useful. Of course, buffers and caching make the RAM disk less useful than it used to be.
The big plus would be that there wouldn't be so many damn temp files all over the place. When I fix someone's computer, the first thing I do is delete the 300+MB of orphaned temp files in "%userprofile%/Local Settings/temp". :-) I also hate it when temp files are actually working files. If a file is going to be open and locked, it should be in the same folder as the application, not in an unstable location, like a temp folder.
mra500: Yes, I like the RAM disk and right-click for menu too. I would have mentioned the "menu at top of screen instead of on windows" as an advantage, but Mac has this too.
I find it awful that every OS has to have a specific way of doing things, instead of letting you choose. Where the menus are located is a matter of preference, and focing you to use them either at the top of the screen or on each window is dumb. Apple is really, really bad at forcing you into a paricular way of thinking: The Jobs Way(TM).
mra500: I hate a lot of things about Windows, but one of the things that annoys me most (after the registry, of course) is the priority Windows has for screen redraws. A 1989 33Mhz Amiga might be a bit slow at screen redraws now and then, but it is absolutely pathetic for a 2006 3Ghz Windows computer with monster graphics card to regularly leave the screen half-drawn while it goes and does something in the background!
X Windows has the same problem, actually. Responsiveness isn't a strong suit in many modern OSes. Even BeOS has driven me nuts a few times.
Lando: If for some reason you want a 946 x 573 Workbench screen, you can do it, but if you want a 946 x 573 Windows screen, you're stuck.
Two words: vector graphics. It's unforgivable how we're still using so much bitmapped graphics these days, especially on web pages, where the display is *supposed* to be ambiguous, and therefore you're not supposed to hard-code for any one resolution. In my opinion, the WWW needs to modernize itself about 15 years, and REST and XSL are not the way to do it.
I find the filtering is to blame. Most video cards have pretty lousy filtering. It'd be nice if someone made a video card with an optional hardware-based SuperEagle filter. That would ROCK.
Laser: 2-you can create your own reolutions on windows on any new nvidia or ati card but someone here point that on workbench is possible
Yeah, it's a hardware thing, not software. Multiple resolutions was fine for TVs running off a composite signal, but is not very friendly for HDTV or LCD displays. Better filters are what's needed, so everything isn't so damn blurry.
Laser: maybe you have a pc with an old gfx card? or
maybe you are a newbie on emulator zone?
Many emulators don't have a very good GUI framework. In fact, most emulators have a terrible GUI.
Laser: Windows XP SP2 = 10, Workbench 3.9 = 0
I appreciate AmigaOS for its design principles, not for its technology. That's why I tell people I want a new OS that works like Workbench, not a refactored AmigaOS.
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itix wrote:
Leave out: icons can be left out on desktop without making a "shortcut"
Mmhh.. I dont see difference.
Workbench methaphor is that its desktop is used as a buffer zone, not as a actuall place where you copy things over...
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Workbench methaphor is that its desktop is used as a buffer zone, not as a actuall place where you copy things over...
I find that inconvinient. I use my desktop as a working folder, and keep all my program shortcuts stashed away in other places, so I expect it to work just like a normal folder. If you're worried about clutter, multiple workspaces is a must-have feature for a modern OS, especially if it expects to attract power users.
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I also like the fact that AmigaOS uses volumes (instead of the mount points like UNIX does), and actual allows you to use NAMES for them.
Yes, I was going to add that to my list, but was unsure if other operating systems have it. Names for volumes is much better than the A: to Z: on Windows.
Window depth:
Oh my God... I HATE the way AmigaOS does it!
For the Amiga window depth to be really great, you need a good "Click to Front" program. Without this, it is a bit annoying trying to find the depth gadget if it is under another window. I like double-clicking a window to bring it to front, but single-clicking to make active (like for cut&paste between two windows).
If somebody knows of a piece of software for Windows or Mac that can do this exact thing, please post a link.
The big plus would be that there wouldn't be so many damn temp files all over the place. When I fix someone's computer, the first thing I do is delete the 300+MB of orphaned temp files in "%userprofile%/Local Settings/temp". I also hate it when temp files are actually working files. If a file is going to be open and locked, it should be in the same folder as the application, not in an unstable location, like a temp folder.
Exactly! I agree with you 100% on that one. I remember running out of disk space at work when I should have had plenty. I checked the many "temp" folders and I had 1Gb of temp files! The next annoying thing was trying to delete a block of files - if one file is in use, the delete stops instead of deleting all selected files NOT in use.
This reminds me of another "Amiga advantage": open files can be copied. In Windows if a file is open, it is locked and can't be copied.
I appreciate AmigaOS for its design principles, not for its technology. That's why I tell people I want a new OS that works like Workbench, not a refactored AmigaOS.
Yes, exactly! That is the whole point of this thread. I wanted to list the great design principles and concepts in the Amiga Workbench that should be in all modern OSes, but still aren't. It seems some people (not you Waccoon :-)) didn't read my first post carefully and think I'm saying that everyone in the world should be using a patched and hacked 1993 OS running on 80's hardware for all their business needs.
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DonnyEMU wrote:
This is totally a useless thread because none of these things are "unique" anymore. They exist elsewhere even on windows.. My F1 key says HELP on it :-)
Then why post to it? :-?
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Waccoon wrote:
"DEVS:" and "ENV:" were brilliant.
Indeed. It is that simple modular mentaility that got me hooked on AmigaOS.
The only drawback is that the colon is not very friendly to Internet connections, where it defines the protocol. Then again, Macs used to use colons as directory separators so you could use slashes in filenames (!), and Apple eventually made the migration to slashes.
Not quite, the colons are still there. There is a bodge whereby they are converted between colon ans slash depending upon which side is looking at it. I can't remember which one is the native HFS+ character though.
That's why I tell people I want a new OS that works like Workbench, not a refactored AmigaOS.
Why? Workbench itself was never really anything to write home about, hence why Scalos and DOpus are so popular. Things like those you mention above were part of the underlying OS not Workbench itself (Workbench was just another program)
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For the purposes of this thread Workbench = AmigaOS.
"AmigaOS" makes me have bad memories of 3.5/3.9 (when the term was introduced). I have always known the entire operating system as Workbench, so this is what I like to use. (yes, loadwb loads Workbench which is running on AmigaDOS)
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mr_a500 wrote:
Multiple screens: each application can have its own screen with different resolution/depth and fast flipping/dragging between them
I don't see the point myself personally
mr_a500 wrote:
Window depth: windows don't move to the front automatically when you click on them and they have depth gadgets to move to front or back (I LOVE this feature! Automatic click to front on other OSes makes me sick!)
I hate this behavior peronality. I just want to grab a window and bring it to the front.
mr_a500 wrote:
Use or Save: unlike other operating systems, you can use current settings without saving them permanently or save them instantly and permanently - without waiting for "shutdown" for it to actually save (forget the Windows Apply/OK - both buttons do exactly the same thing - save at shutdown!)
Agreed, it's much nicer. Still the apply button can be handy so maybe OK/Apply and save perhapse, or just have it the amiga way.
mr_a500 wrote:
Animated Icons: one image for normal, one for selected
Agreed, I like this.
mr_a500 wrote:
All icons can be changed: separate info file for icons meaning every single icon can be changed
I find the info thing annoying personally. Executable file's icon are stored internally on windows BTW.
mr_a500 wrote:
Assigns: assign token to shorten long paths
I like these and *NIX symlinks.
mr_a500 wrote:
No virtual memory: turn off computer instead of annoying shutdown (no constant HD swapping)
Disagree here: First of all, as said, the main reason for shut down is the disk cache. Also you're mixing up virtual memory with demand paging, that's what's doing the disk swapping. Virtual memory is how you get memory protection. Lack of memory protection is one of the biggest deficientcies of AmigaOS (there is a reason for it, it was written for the 68000 that doesn't support it other than user and supervisor mode).
mr_a500 wrote:
No keyboard/mouse buffering: actions not stored when system busy - avoids actions happening later when you don't want them (software dependent on Amiga, not OS - of Amiga programs, I think only IBrowse buffers - and I wish it didn't)
Not always OS dependant, the PC keyboard its self has someting like a 16 byte buffer in it.
mr_a500 wrote:
Standard installer with readable text: you can read exactly what the install will do, edit it if you want or install manually (with other OSes, you don't know and have to trust it not to trash your system)
This is good, though I've never had any trouble with the windows method.
mr_a500 wrote:
Help key: yes this is hardware, not OS - but still, why does everybody else have F1 for Help? It seems pretty lame to me. (yes I know, for historical compatibility)
doesn't bother me.
Anyway, the thing I liked about AmigaOS/Workbench was very simple to use and understand with simple modular concepts. This is where other OS developers should look at it. My dad could understand the amiga easily but has difficulties with windows (though he's getting better with use).
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Lamer wrote:
well I see that some ppl here don't know very well windows features or gfx cards features or
1-virtual memory can be disabled on windows but someone here point that no virtual memory is a workbench advantage
Please read carefully. I already said I know it can be disabled on Windows. But I dare you to run Windows without virtual memory and run all the applications you usually run - see how well that works. (crash!) This isn't one of my main points anyway - I know virtual memory can be useful if properly implemented.
3-surfing through screens is also possible on windows pressing ALT-TAB
Again, read carefully. I said "every application can run on its own screen". Example: can you open Word, Excel, Explorer each on its own screen with its own resolution? Can you drag those screens?? Is the flipping to different resolutions fast (less than 1/10 sec)??
4-(amigaos shutdown is faster) ????
I never shutdown my computer using windows buttons...that's is for lamer users
also I have disabled scandisk or checkdisk to not work after a bad shutdown
I see that lamer windows users still don't know that
You just try that at a large software consulting firm - see how far that gets you. My examples of shutdown problems were at work. Only a lamer wouldn't know that you can't install unapproved custom software or do custom configs on an office work computer.
5-the only adantege of amigaOS is that boot faster that any windows version
Please read carefully for other advantages listed.
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mr_a500 wrote:
For the purposes of this thread Workbench = AmigaOS.
"AmigaOS" makes me have bad memories of 3.5/3.9 (when the term was introduced). I have always known the entire operating system as Workbench, so this is what I like to use. (yes, loadwb loads Workbench which is running on AmigaDOS)
I understand what you mean, my reply was specific to Wacoon's post where he makes a differentiation between the two.
I've always preferred the name Workbench to AmigaOS. There really wasn't a proper name for the whole system, it was sorta Kickstart+AmigaDOS+Workbench.
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srg86 wrote:
I don't see the point myself personally
Well, the thing I like about running each application on its own screen is that you can have say 10 applications running, all maximized, and still have the desktop clear for any other windows you want to open.
Yes, in Windows you've got the task bar and can switch that way or with task manager or minimize all to see desktop. But what if you get a popup requester in one application? In Windows, depending on the requester, you could be stuck until you answer the requester or some windows might not minimize. In Amiga, you could have requesters open in each application and still quickly flip between them. Not only that, but you can have images each on their own screen in their own resolution. I regularly select a bunch of images to display and quickly flip between them. In other OSes, images are in windows and it's awkward moving between them. But, maybe there are fancy image display programs I don't know about.
I hate this behavior peronality. I just want to grab a window and bring it to the front.
I know what you mean, but as I said before, you need a click to front program. Then you double-click to bring the window to front. When I have to copy text between two or more windows on Windows or Mac, it's a pain in the ass because I have to size or tile the windows so that they don't keep overlapping each other, blocking my access to the text I want to cut&paste. On Amiga, if I see text in a window under another window, I can copy it without the window coming to front and overlapping the window I want to paste in. (whew!)
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I've always preferred the name Workbench to AmigaOS. There really wasn't a proper name for the whole system, it was sorta Kickstart+AmigaDOS+Workbench.
I have to say that AmigaOS doesnt trip of the tongue like AmigaDOS, but that doesnt describe the whole thing, but neither does Workbench.
I guess 'Amiga' will have to do ! (which also covers the HW, btw...)
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It's a bit nicer than "Amiga ROM Operating System and Libraries" that comes up on 3.1 :-)
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I think the GREATEST advantage of Amiga/WorkBench was that it was OPEN. All of the Rom Kernals and libraries and devices were available for a programmer to read thru, digest and use or improve upon. This was a major reason Amiga really was so popular and so many great utilities/demos/games/programs/artworks were produced.
No matter which version of DOS, WorkBench or Kickstart Rom you owned, you could buy the manuals, guides and books to help you discover the power of the OS/hardware
This is the real reason I love Amiga!
Windows and MacOS can go jump, any company that keeps secrets and closes knowledge from the people paying them money for that product have to be hiding something.. incompitence maybe? :-P
Az
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@Waccoon:
I find that inconvinient. I use my desktop as a working folder, and keep all my program shortcuts stashed away in other places, so I expect it to work just like a normal folder. If you're worried about clutter, multiple workspaces is a must-have feature for a modern OS, especially if it expects to attract power users.
This as you should expect is a matter of personal taste, and as such it should be possible to costumize it... but still, you can have programs on the desktop 'hardlinked'.
IMO what really helps to avoid clutter is using RAM as desktop.
I don't know if mac has a buffer zone, but Windows methaphor is a bit as linux 'everything is a file' way of doing things, as there are more effective ways to do it without going on using always the same metaphor
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Use or Save: unlike other operating systems, you can use current settings without saving them permanently or save them instantly and permanently - without waiting for "shutdown" for it to actually save (forget the Windows Apply/OK - both buttons do exactly the same thing - save at shutdown!)
Eh? Neither OK nor Apply do "save at shutdown" on Windows. Ok saves the settings while Apply, er, applies them until you close the preferences window or save them.
Windows not moved off screen: prevents "lost" windows, don't have to carefully move windows to avoid them being half off screen
Annoying as hell, especially at lower resolution screens. Can be patched on 3.1, it's already possible on OS4 and MorphOS.
Help key: yes this is hardware, not OS - but still, why does everybody else have F1 for Help? It seems pretty lame to me. (yes I know, for historical compatibility)
The Help key is an Apple thing, actually.
Multiple screens: each application can have its own screen with different resolution/depth and fast flipping/dragging between them
Apart from screen dragging, this is possible on every major operating system, INCLUDING Windows.
Leave out: icons can be left out on desktop without making a "shortcut"
It's not really much different from shortcuts. You just store the filename in a file and Workbench leaves it out.
Assigns: assign token to shorten long paths
You can make symbolic links on any UNIX-like system.
No virtual memory: turn off computer instead of annoying shutdown (no constant HD swapping)
This is not a feature, it's a downside, there's a good reason for virtual memory to be there, even though the Windows swapper sucks and sometimes never recovers from low-memory situations.
Virtual memory allows the application developer to load data that is by far larger than the available memory. If there IS available RAM, they will stay there, else they will be swapped out, to be loaded on demand. This is just ONE use of virtual memory, it has many. Do you like how the Amiga runs out of useful memory very very quickly, as it gets so fragmented that you can have 64MB of RAM free and 50kb largest available block? This can be fixed with VM, as the address space available isn't just the physical RAM space.
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One small, but very practical feature is, that you can emulate a mouse using the keyboard. I'd love to be able to do that in Windows!
You can, enable it in the Accessibility options.
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Also, a feature of WorkBench 3.1 was smart window refresh! amazing, when a window with text is displayed UNDER another window, it smart refreshes all text in that window!
SmartRefresh may appear smoother but it's slower.
Also, it's obsolete on OSes that draw stuff as 3D surfaces, OSX, (hasta la)Vista, XGL, etc.
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4-(amigaos shutdown is faster) ????
I never shutdown my computer using windows buttons...that's is for lamer users
also I have disabled scandisk or checkdisk to not work after a bad shutdown
I see that lamer windows users still don't know that
Nice... 1337 user... I've seen so many Windows installations get trashed because of bad shutdowns that I wouldn't advise that at all...
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Disagree here: First of all, as said, the main reason for shut down is the disk cache. Also you're mixing up virtual memory with demand paging, that's what's doing the disk swapping. Virtual memory is how you get memory protection.
Disk cache and disk buffers are different things.
The main reason for the long shutdown times are disk indexes, which are rebuit every time the system shuts down. I've noticed that the more files I have on my desktop, the longer Windows takes to shut down. If I delete a few gigs of working files, Windows shuts down a LOT faster.
Also, memory mapping is a requirement for proper virtual memory, but is not itself VM.
mra500: Please read carefully. I already said I know it can be disabled on Windows. But I dare you to run Windows without virtual memory and run all the applications you usually run - see how well that works. (crash!)
Yeah, Windows expects VM, so if you turn it off, it will get VERY unstable. Having VM is not the problem -- it's how the technology is used. AmigaOS programmers are obviously more aware of memory limits than Windows hackers.
mra500: Example: can you open Word, Excel, Explorer each on its own screen with its own resolution?
Why would you want to? Look at what Apple does with its virtual texture desktop. That's the direction Amiga should be heading. Scrolling screens and virtual workspaces are a snap to add to the system once you have that nice, scalable graphics engine working.
mra500: Only a lamer wouldn't know that you can't install unapproved custom software or do custom configs on an office work computer.
Good point. I forget that people don't really have control over the computer when I recommend that they download a particular tool. Today's computers really need a new security model.
uncharted: I've always preferred the name Workbench to AmigaOS. There really wasn't a proper name for the whole system, it was sorta Kickstart+AmigaDOS+Workbench.
Workbench is what most people see, if they don't really know how to use the shell.
One thing I really, really liked about AmigaOS is that it wasn't afraid to make the shell available. I don't understand why there has to be such a hard line between the shell and the GUI, so long as people aren't forced to use one way of doing things. I hate that Linux makes me use the shell all the time (even when distros insist you don't have to), and everything else wants you to click click click all day. Everybody else is into "integration", but Workbench isn't afraid to show you what's underneath. ;-)
mra500: When I have to copy text between two or more windows on Windows or Mac, it's a pain in the ass because I have to size or tile the windows so that they don't keep overlapping each other, blocking my access to the text I want to cut&paste. On Amiga, if I see text in a window under another window, I can copy it without the window coming to front and overlapping the window I want to paste in. (whew!)
I just ran into that problem today! Now I see what you mean. Duh.
In Windows, "Always on top" seems like a kludge.
Azryl: No matter which version of DOS, WorkBench or Kickstart Rom you owned, you could buy the manuals, guides and books to help you discover the power of the OS/hardware
Yeah, you can't get any books on programming Windows or MacOS these days. ;-)
The REAL problem is that Microsoft just keeps changing things all the time. They just can't figure out what they want to do.
Pixie: I don't know if mac has a buffer zone, but Windows methaphor is a bit as linux 'everything is a file' way of doing things, as there are more effective ways to do it without going on using always the same metaphor
Old Macs do have a buffer zone, where the files existed in certain places on a device and only showed up on the desktop. If you moved floppy items onto the desktop, ejecting the floppy would clear all the icons for things stored on the disk. Newer Macs work more like Windows, and have files stored in a "special" folder in "Home".
It would be nice if everything actually was a file on Unix. It isn't true at all. FTP is a prime example of this; you have to use special programs to shuffle "files" around, instead of good old shell commands. I wish Plan9 had gotten more attention. UNIX is powerful, but it still seems old to me, surviving only because it is better than Windows, underneath. Being "Good Enough" or "Better than Windows" (take your pick) seems to be the only real qualification for an OS these days. If Linux fans are so rebellious, why can't they stand to break UNIX tradition and shuffle off compatibility with 15-year-old tools?
That's why I want a new Amiga. I'm tired of everybody just starting with UNIX and just making some new Crystal(TM)(R)(C)(FU) icons for it. Gimme a new shell to replace Bash, and I'll be impressed.
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This reminds me of another "Amiga advantage": open files can be copied. In Windows if a file is open, it is locked and can't be copied.
It can be copied on both Amiga and Windows. Can't be deleted/moved on either.
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If it's locked in read mode, the file can be copied. If it's locked in write mode, it cannot. That's the way an OS is supposed to work. AmigaOS bends this rule a bit since it doesn't really have the ability to enforce it.
The problem is that nobody should open and lock a file for an extended period of time. The file should be opened when needed, updated, and then closed, allowing the OS disk buffers to handle all the dirty work. It makes it easier for the OS to handle the filesystem efficiently, too, and reduces the likliness of open links not being closed properly.
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Sorry, yes, I just don't think that files locked for writing should be readable by anything else at all (>>corrupted data).
BTW, I have tried turning swapping off in Windows. It does not make them unstable, you just run out of memory WAAAAY too quickly.
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What i like about the AmigaOS is that it is Fast,Small and Simple.Just like every OS should be! :-D
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[EDIT]: Just realised all of this had been adressed already... so this post is rather unecessesary. Oh. Well. Anyways.
shift delete, shift cursor keys. Really annoys me when I'm not on amiga and I cant shift delete. Quick simple easy and very usefull
However, I have had the problem of rather often, by accident, deleting quite long lines written in the shell, ed or wherever that very combination, shift+delete can be used.
virtual memory can be disabled on windows but someone here point that no virtual memory is a workbench advantage
However, according to many people that have tried this, and according to my own experiences, this isn't really recommended to do. Not only does Windows (XP, in this case) start to behave really odd when the memory is running short, but also I've encountered many many crashes of the system. XP and many applications seems to have been designed without ever considering the possible consequences of the end-user not having the virtual memory turned on.
you can create your own reolutions on windows on any new nvidia or ati card but someone here point that on workbench is possible
How do you do that? I have never heard of the possibility! I'd love to do that very thing! Especially since I often use emulators, and have to either scale the graphics into some ugly non-perfect pixel aspect ratio or add a filter to make the graphics look smooth. I would LOVE to make a perfect SNES sreenmode, and a perfect Genesis screenmode, and a perfect whatever screenmode, instead of playing with filters or ugly scaling. [Edit: just noticed your recommendations, I'll check them out]
surfing through screens is also possible on windows pressing ALT-TAB
...but it is everything but fast...
I never shutdown my computer using windows buttons...that's is for lamer users
Or, rather, people that really care about the data stored on their harddrives? I've managed to crash the entire filesystem on a partition by shutting down Windows by simply flicking the powerswitch.
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AmiGR wrote:
Eh? Neither OK nor Apply do "save at shutdown" on Windows. Ok saves the settings while Apply, er, applies them until you close the preferences window or save them.
Believe me, I've spent a lot of time testing this so I know what I'm talking about here. Do a test for yourself. Open a Windows setting (Windows background for example). Make a change and click "Apply". Now click "Cancel". It should revert back to original because you clicked "Cancel" right? Wrong - but that's OK because it shouldn't have saved right? Wrong! It is saved (reboot Windows to find out). Clicking "OK" does EXACTLY the same thing - it only prevents you from having to click "Cancel" to exit the settings window.
Now for "saving at shutdown" - how do I know this? Test like this: make a settings change and click "OK". It should be saved right away if it doesn't save at shutdown right? Now turn off Windows or have a crash or something to prevent shutdown from occurring. When Windows starts again you'll find that your setting change is not there.
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Believe me, I've spent a lot of time testing this so I know what I'm talking about here. Do a test for yourself. Open a Windows setting (Windows background for example). Make a change and click "Apply". Now click "Cancel". It should revert back to original because you clicked "Cancel" right? Wrong - but that's OK because it shouldn't have saved right? Wrong! It is saved (reboot Windows to find out). Clicking "OK" does EXACTLY the same thing - it only prevents you from having to click "Cancel" to exit the settings window.
Weird, either it worked differently on older versions of Windows or I was under some illusion. :-P
Now for "saving at shutdown" - how do I know this? Test like this: make a settings change and click "OK". It should be saved right away if it doesn't save at shutdown right? Now turn off Windows or have a crash or something to prevent shutdown from occurring. When Windows starts again you'll find that your setting change is not there.
Ah, that's what you meant. Well, that's normal, settings are generally saved on shutdown for a few, very good, reasons. First of all, the system is not supposed to be turned off without a shutdown. Secondly, if a crash was caused by a certain setting, it will be reset to it's previous state. From the user's point of view, it saves it instantly, the user shouldn't turn the machine off without a shutdown.
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3246251196 wrote:
ill have WB 3.0 with my A1200 when it comes.
wonder if i can get AmigaOS3.1 on a 3.0 ROM Chip ??
WB3.1 works just fine on the 3.0 kickstart. You will only need to uprade with amigaos 3.5 and higher
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AmiGR wrote:
..the user shouldn't turn the machine off without a shutdown.
Yes I definitely agree with this, but I've had many occasions where I spent 20 minutes or more making lots of settings changes, only to have an unrelated application crash (many hours after the settings change) and cause the "blue screen of death" - meaning I had to make all those damn setting changes again!
After those wonderful experiences, I now reboot Windows after making lots of settings changes to make sure they actually ARE saved. (... until they slowly and mysteriously revert back to MS defaults!)
This brings me to yet another major "Amiga advantage": preferences/program settings are stored in only a one or two locations and can be easily backed up and restored. In Windows, settings are stored in the Registry and many different locations (10 or more!) and are impossible to back up and restore. There are some "hidden" backup programs but they only backup very few preferences. Backing up Registry keys is a nightmare. (don't debate me on this point - I have MAJOR experience attempting to backup Windows & program preferences!)
Waccoon wrote:
Why would you want to? Look at what Apple does with its virtual texture desktop. That's the direction Amiga should be heading. Scrolling screens and virtual workspaces are a snap to add to the system once you have that nice, scalable graphics engine working.
I already explained why in my response to srg86 (on page 2). But hey, if Apple has a better solution then that's great. I don't insist on doing everything the "Amiga way". If there's something better then I'll go for that. :-)
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KThunder wrote:
i added disk cache because that is one reason you cant just kill modern system not because you mentioned it you notice i put what you said first
of course you can just kill a modern system, I do it daily!
I'm livin on the edge baby! :lol:
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CLI commands in English - easy to learn, something unix (and like) systems seem to completely ignore.
Responsiveness - very few others can even get close, the only one I can think of is BeOS. This is a design point of the Amiga which again others have not bothered with.
Simple system layout - again something other systems seem to completely ignore.
No swap - I consider the ability to run *effectively* without swap a major performance and resource efficiency advantage - it means you can build a system without a HD, try that on any other system... Yes, you can build a minimalist Linux system but you'd lose a lot of functionality in the process.
Note: The lack of VM is a distinct disadvantage but VM is not the same as swap.
Title bar at top of screen - Ever since going over to the Mac I've become convinced this is a good idea, however the mac implementation is better as it does not require you to press the right mouse button.
A standard scripting language - the fact of a standard meant everyone uses it, the lack of a standard scripting language on other systems means they are not used even if their capabilities are better.
Experimental GUIs, this is difficult on other systems but Amigas embraced it back in the day, it didn't always work but some non-standard apps had excellent interfaces.
DOpus 4 (not the later versions). IMO the highest point of file management applications.
History - many ex-Amiga users have fond memories of the Amiga, this is not true for pretty much any other system out there today.
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I like that programs go into folders. And folders goes into sub folders. So if I would have Photoshop on my Amiga it would go into the Graphics folder on my Work partition. And when I would start Photoshop I would go into my Work partition and into my Graphics folder and then into my Photoshop folder. When I am in my Photoshop folder I see a couple of icons, one is Photoshop and some read me icons, the other icons belonging to Photoshop is hidden because they have no .info files.
Windows is a huge mess when you are trying to organize folders and programs. The startbar is not a good idea I think because programs are put in strange startbar folders like companyname/program/program.exe
I think Workbench was great in that you could organize your programs however you wanted it. And if you wanted to uninstall something you could always just delete a folder, in some cases some files where left on DH0: but in most cases those files where so small it did not matter they where still left.
Currently I run XP and have set up mini icons on my startbar for most of the popular programs I run every day, I rarely go to programs in my start bar anymore because it is just a huge mess. Sometimes I go into c:\program files and it just amaze me how much JUNK gets collected there.
Linux and Unix are messy to. I am not suppose to critize them because some big bearded fat Unix-wiz with dirty jeans would probably type up a three page long list of argument why they rule the world. But to be honest with you Unix just feels old and dumb in some ways.
And I do not believe in that people who like functions of Workbench are living in the past. The small things in Workbench is what I like about it like pressing amiga + m and amiga + e.
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cv643d wrote:
Windows is a huge mess when you are trying to organize folders and programs.... I think Workbench was great in that you could organize your programs however you wanted it.
Yes! You know, I once tried to organize Windows programs. With a fresh Windows installation, I installed all programs on a second partition for applications in neatly organized folders like "Graphics", "Music", "Development", "Productivity", etc. instead of the default "C:\Program Files". It was an absolute disaster! Even though install files give you the option to select location to install, there are major problems if you don't use the default location. I ended up having to wipe the harddrive and reinstall Windows.
Windows is massively flawed. Theoretically, Windows is extremely customizable. But the reality is if you do customize settings, you will end up getting screwed. It seems that Microsoft and most software companies expect users to use the default settings (because most users do) and do not carefully test the impact that non-default settings will make on their software. I have had so many problems that I don't even bother trying to customize the default anymore. (I wrote detailed notes of every problem I encountered too - just to prevent me from going insane and heading to Redmond with a shotgun ;-) )
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@ thread.
I loath Virtual memory. I much prefere beeing able to just turn off my PC and not worry about a thing.
AMIGA OS is so efficient and requires so little memory, it was never a real need to have virtual memory.
It would be a nice feature to have as an option, but that's all. I still prefere the performance, small foot print of AMIGA OS and it's applications over bloatware any day of the week period.
So for me, it's a multitasking enviroment gui in under 512k memory ;) lol!! and all the other points above.
I love AMIGA OS. The ONLY thing it's missing for me is a safe multi user enviroment and server abilities. Perhaps that will be called AMIGA OS Server :)))))))
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minator wrote:
A standard scripting language - the fact of a standard meant everyone uses it, the lack of a standard scripting language on other systems means they are not used even if their capabilities are better.
Erm, AppleScript? ;-)
Experimental GUIs, this is difficult on other systems but Amigas embraced it back in the day, it didn't always work but some non-standard apps had excellent interfaces.
Non-standard GUIs almost always broke with system upgrades. In the beginning (pre GadTools) the toolkit was too limited, and developers were forced into rolling thier own. Thankfully today custom GUIs appear to be the presrve of OEM scanner and printer software.
DOpus 4 (not the later versions). IMO the highest point of file management applications.
That's an application though not a part of the OS. That's cheating :-)
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Does anybody know how does it boot to NT system?? A black magic happens between MBR and user shell being loaded. Amiga has startup-sequence. Even mac 9&10 is better that way.
Click-to-front: damn, how i hate it!. I prefer doubleclick-to-front with MCP or other tool in AmigaOS.
Virtual Mem/paging - having 128Megs of Fast in my a1200 for more than 2 years, i never ran out of it. In pc i have 768 and always run out of it. Mac - i have 384MB. In OS9 i disabled VM, in OS X it`s enough to run OK and damn stable.
Stability - No comments about Windows. It simply crashes without reason from time to time, no matter of what hardware it is running on, and how is it configured.
A correctly configured AmigaOS is stable as hell.
Even my patched Mac OS 10.3.9 running on unsupported Mac model is stable. (now it runs primarily as Internet access gate almost 24h/day for more than 2 months, and when i have to shutdown other machine for a while (normally 3-4 times a day), i always run iTunes and some muzaxx on it :D AFAIR, for those two months I NEVER HAD A CRASH on mac!!!)
Desktop conventions - Windows suxx. No stable conventions. AmigaOS - gives you choice. Conventions clear and simple. Mac OS X - has some preconfiguration, but does not really make difference if you fell free to break them.
Applications installation/uninstallation - Windows pain - always leaves tons of sh*t in many folders. AmigaOS - Just delete related files and remove assigns (if any), and sometimes libraries, but I used to not delete libs - as they almost always may be handy with other apps. Mac OS X rules here. Not only it rarely stores application-related files in system folders, it also (by default) shows the whole application folder as (this) application itself only! You simply put that in trash - and it`s uninstalled !!
Screen flipping/dragging - virtual desktops have nothing to say. AmigaOS is excellent with these capabilities. Not only (with native graphics) it switches the screens ABSOLUTELY IMMEDIATELY, but also it allows you to see as many screens as you like, when you drag all of them down a bit.
If only i had AmigaONE...
Or even if I had a faster (at least a 500MHz) Mac..
I would never want to look at the Windoze again then.