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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: CHR_ZD on March 21, 2006, 11:18:46 AM

Title: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: CHR_ZD on March 21, 2006, 11:18:46 AM
They are not able to see changes in modern computing and stick to obsolete and unavailable hardware. I believe they are very far from releasing anything so they stick to this unavailable hardware as an excuse to not release anything. Their website never gets updated! They could post work in progress but nothing, it seems very very dead to me. They can't even see the base of possible users is getting very tired and angry about them. They'd better make some new announcements immediately. I think they lost any credibility.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: Savan on March 21, 2006, 11:50:41 AM
Dont they have to pay people (amiga inc and eyetech) if the OS goes "final"? if yes then that explains it.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: CHR_ZD on March 21, 2006, 12:11:29 PM
that would be really great. They know they have to pay royalties to get the os final and they decide to develop it for hardware which does not exist so that they have noone to sell it to. Are they trying to emulate Commodore business strategies too?
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: Red_Melons on March 21, 2006, 12:24:29 PM
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Their website never gets updated!


That's what you think - have you seen this?

http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/news/2006-03-21
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: MrZammler on March 21, 2006, 12:33:48 PM
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CHR_ZD wrote:
They could post work in progress but nothing, it seems very very dead to me.


Many people are using Hyperion's "work in progress" and it doesnt feel dead to them.

I agree though, lack of hardware is frustrating. I'm not sure who's fault it is, but I'm not going to hold Hyperion responsible for that without knowning facts. As far as I'm concerned, they've done a very good job.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 12:40:45 PM
Amiga Inc. needs to pay $25.000 to Hyperion to transfer all source code, interest and title (property rights) in OS 4.0 to Amiga Inc.

This can be done either before OS4.0 is released or no later than 6 months after the release.

If this doesn't happen, all rights fall to Hyperion.

See the tactics here? Don't release the OS and hope that Amiga Inc. will go belly up soon.

Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: jahc on March 21, 2006, 01:42:04 PM
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Amiga Inc. needs to pay $25.000 to Hyperion to transfer all source code, interest and title (property rights) in OS 4.0 to Amiga Inc.

This can be done either before OS4.0 is released or no later than 6 months after the release.

If this doesn't happen, all rights fall to Hyperion.

See the tactics here? Don't release the OS and hope that Amiga Inc. will go belly up soon.
Quote

What?! Where did you hear that from?
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: trgse on March 21, 2006, 02:26:31 PM
why would Amiga inc. have to pay hyperion, for using their trademarks, source code and copyrights, (and some patents).

it's hyperion that will have to pay amiga inc. a wad of cash as soon as OS4 is released (and then continue to pay for the entire commercial life of OS4.x), and hyperion seem to be perfectly happy to keep sending out pre-releases since they reach all A1 owner's and will probably come up with some ingingous way of making money (Warp3D,Mesa, for money?).

if anyone expects troika etc. to be able to fork out the money hyperion demands for porting OS4 to new hardware... it ain't going to happen.... ever.

Strange that no-one has started a mozilla like thing for collecting money to get hyperion to port AOS4 to pegasos? (perhaps noone in the pegasos camp actually want it, they simply state that they want it because they know it will make some people go bananas -friedens for instance-.)
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 02:38:18 PM
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why would Amiga inc. have to pay hyperion, for using their trademarks, source code and copyrights, (and some patents).


They don't "have to" pay Hyperion, they pay Hyperion either as a reward for their job on OS4 (6 months after release of OS4 final) or if they intend to regain total control over the OS (e.g. getting development in-house), or want to retire from the contract made between the AmigaOne partners.
If they don't pay Hyperion however, all rights on the OS will fall to Hyperion. That would be quite nice, unfortunately we still need to wait a long time before Amiga Inc. goes bancrupt.

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if anyone expects troika etc. to be able to fork out the money hyperion demands for porting OS4 to new hardware... it ain't going to happen.... ever.


That's what everybody is wondering about. They have put a lot of BS on the website, but never answered if they have a license. I also don't know where the money for the port should come from. Hyperion has not even seen a prototype yet. Would Hyperion finance a port to the Troika? So why are they asking 20.000 EUR for the Pegasos 2 port then?

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they simply state that they want it because they know it will make some people go bananas -friedens for instance-


The Friedens have said that they don't have anyting against a port for Pegasos 2. It's just a matter of who is paying for the port and if they can solve the license issue. The latter is rather unlikely.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: Colin_Camper on March 21, 2006, 02:43:17 PM
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This can be done either before OS4.0 is released or no later than 6 months after the release.


I don't think this is right! do you have any evidence for this?
I understood that Hyperion could develop and sell OS4.x exclusively under license to Amiga Inc. One of the terms of this license being that Amiga Inc can control which platforms OS4.x can be sold on.

You can't accuse OS4 of having a crappy website!  :-o

It has IMHO the best website in Amigaland (http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/)

Even better than cloantos Amiga forever or Genesi's site.

(Although at the moment AF and Genesi probably beat it into third place because these two are actually shipping product!  :lol: )
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 02:51:46 PM
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I understood that Hyperion could develop and sell OS4.x exclusively under license to Amiga Inc. One of the terms of this license being that Amiga Inc can control which platforms OS4.x can be sold on.


How does this contradict with my statement?
Yes, Hyperion is a contractor of Amiga Inc. for the development of OS4.0.
Yes, Amiga Inc. controls the licensing policy for OS4.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: Colin_Camper on March 21, 2006, 03:00:24 PM
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Amiga Inc. needs to pay $25.000 to Hyperion

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If this doesn't happen, all rights fall to Hyperion.


This is what I was querying!

It doesn't ring any bells. It doesn't sound like a sound proposition (for Hyperion).
Maybe if it was $2,500,000....

I was just asking if you had any evidence for this assertion.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 03:08:40 PM
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It doesn't sound like a sound proposition (for Hyperion). Maybe if it was $2,500,000....


Hyperion completely underestimated the time needed for porting AmigaOS to PPC of course. This can be seen from their numerous completely false statements regarding the release date.

Of course $2.500.000 does sound more realistically for 5 years of work on the OS.
Now Hyperion's only chance to get some profit out of it is to make it "their OS" and doing whatever they intend with it. This means to delay the release of OS4 final until Amiga Inc. goes bancrupt.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: Savan on March 21, 2006, 03:15:34 PM
If Hyperion have any sense they would never release "os4 final" because they will not have to pay people royalties.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: Argo on March 21, 2006, 03:45:52 PM
Um, What is this final release suppost to run on? :-?
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 04:06:57 PM
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Um, What is this final release suppost to run on?


Good question, do you refer to the terms of the contract or what is realistically to be anticipated?

Concerning the communication between between the contract partners see the IRC-chat:

[2005-12-28 20:56:50] VidarL "Are Hyperion in regular contact with Amiga.Inc?"
[2005-12-28 20:57:01] Rogue "*coughs* :)"
[2005-12-28 20:57:04] Rogue "Alright, about Mesa..."
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: JoannaK on March 21, 2006, 04:36:32 PM
CC: You have to understand that the original *deal* (at least the version floated on net) was supposidely made Before Hyperion even started the OS4 porting project (late 2001).. IF you'll look old posts (or happen to remember) it was Hermans&Team who bragged publicly that they can Cram OS4 port to working/sellable condition in mere 3 months..

If it had only taken 3 months, the payment might have been more-or-less reasonable, but unfortunately (or on pupose? who's to tell) it's taken them four years and it's still not 'ready' ...

Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: JoannaK on March 21, 2006, 04:42:25 PM
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 04:46:10 PM
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If it had only taken 3 months, the payment might have been more-or-less reasonable, but unfortunately (or on pupose? who's to tell) it's taken them four years and it's still not 'ready' ...


Exactly. Ok, let's make a contest: Who digs out the earliest estimated release date of AmigaOS 4 will get a free non-existing Amy'05 prototype.

Let me start with a conservative release date: It says "commercial release in early 2005" on the website of Amiga Inc.
:lol:
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: CHR_ZD on March 21, 2006, 07:15:25 PM
please. they don't even have a mailing list. they should let people know what is happening so that they create interest... os4 site is totally dead and in an e-commerce point of view it's stuck at the first stage (there are 3 stages in e-commerce theory), if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: JoannaK on March 21, 2006, 08:16:22 PM
Humppa: IMHO.. one should not mix those totally empty promices made by AmigaInc to Hyperion's.. Hyperion at least has started the project for real when they said they are going to and got it in reasonably well shape during these years...

Of course it's to each and every individual to determine if current version of OS4 is ready enough.. Some individuas say it is ready and fits their needs, but in wider spec, it's stil lacking in many key areas valued today before it could be markettable for bigger crowds. (and years late)
Title: Re: OS 4 developers aren't able to see change
Post by: humppa on March 21, 2006, 09:45:42 PM
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Of course it's to each and every individual to determine if current version of OS4 is ready enough..


Hyperion's statements to the question wether OS4 is "ready" or not were quite contradicting recently, to say the least.

Around X-mas, when everybody was speculating for a final release and much hope was raised, they explained that OS4 final is basically ready, but won't be released due to missing hardware. At that time, also the Classic version was said to be principally "near final" and there was not much difference between the A1 and Classic version.

Nearly 4 months later, hardware is still missing. Looking at the bad sentiment at the moment and the fact that more and more users are giving up, Hyperion could finally release the Classic version to pump some fresh air into the boing ball.
But now they say that there are so many drivers missing, there is no point, they can't afford the support, etc.

Also the argument that they need to release both version (Classic and for new hw) at the same time is very weak imho: Would anybody (Slashdot, Register) notice when the Classic version get's released? I don't think so. They could still have their news when new hardware is released someday (maybe in 2007).
They just twist their arguments how they best fit with their policy. I get the feeling that they are in fact hoping for Amiga Inc. to go bancrupt soon and therefore are not interested in releasing OS4 to soon. They will only get $25.000 within 6 months after they release. That's nothing compared to the efforts and man-hours they put into it. Surely, they could earn some money from OS4 sales, but that's nothing compared to the possibility to get the rights for AmigaOS sourcecode, trademarks, simply everything.

It's a bit like gambling for "all or nothing".