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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: SIR-GERMAN on March 21, 2006, 12:40:59 AM
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i need some help because i think i am going crazy .
i just buy a fastlane and i got a seagate barracuda 4 gigas 68 pins , so i got the connector to 50 pins but it did not work .
the board does not see it .
ok then i went to ebay i got a ibm 17 gigas 80 pin , and i buy
the connector to 50 pins . ok os 3.9 sees the hardrive but i does not let format or partition .
ok i went and i buy a new quantun altas 9 gigas 80 pins i got the connector to 50 pins and again 0s 3.9 does not see it again like the seagate .
then i went and i got rom 8.5 for the fastlane , still same result .
i try a old 1 giga ibm 50 pins and it work ok , and i try a 50 cd rom work ok .
wich hard drive should i buy ??
anyone can tell me what are they using in the fastlane ?
thank for your time
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SIR-GERMAN wrote:
i need some help because i think i am going crazy .
i just buy a fastlane and i got a seagate barracuda 4 gigas 68 pins , so i got the connector to 50 pins but it did not work .
the board does not see it .
ok then i went to ebay i got a ibm 17 gigas 80 pin , and i buy
the connector to 50 pins . ok os 3.9 sees the hardrive but i does not let format or partition .
ok i went and i buy a new quantun altas 9 gigas 80 pins i got the connector to 50 pins and again 0s 3.9 does not see it again like the seagate .
then i went and i got rom 8.5 for the fastlane , still same result .
i try a old 1 giga ibm 50 pins and it work ok , and i try a 50 cd rom work ok .
wich hard drive should i buy ??
anyone can tell me what are they using in the fastlane ?
thank for your time
What Amiga are you using the Z3 in & what version Buster chip does it have?
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i think is 8 but i am not using any memory
so is that relevant ?
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amiga 4000d
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Okay, these cards had LOTS of issues with different CPU's.
Like the Z3 needs to be on firmware 8 or above to use in an A4000 with 060 CPU. You appear to have 8.5 so this is ok.
Also, there are some issues with certain SCSI drives on certain SCSI controllers. Largely, the Z3 should conform to most SCSI II drives but there may be compatability issues as well as obvious performance issues with SCSI III drives.
It is after all, a SCSI II card, though DCE usually got things right.
Z3 Info (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1231)
As an example, if you are using an A3640 card version 3, you are probably experiencing DMA issues, especially if the Z3 has No onboard RAM.
Also, you will need OS3.9 Hard Drive toolbox to Prep & format drives of that size but ideally, you should be using the Prep software that came with Card.
you can get the software from:
here: (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?id=fastlane)
and here: (http://phase5.a1k.org/index.php?id=0)
Best of luck! :-)
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These are all internal drives, right? It sounds more like a SCSI problem than a Fastlane problem. You tried a drive with 50 pins and it worked fine, but all the drives you tried with adapters gave you trouble? I'm using an IBM 9GB 68pin drive with a 68->50 adapter, and a Seagate 4.3GB 50pin drive on my Fastlane. They are in an external case with an active terminator ending that chain. I have no internal devices and I'm using the passive terminators on the Fastlane to terminate that end of the chain. How much memory you have on the Fastlane isn't going to affect the SCSI.
I'd first double-check the SCSI termination and adapters. What kind of adapters were you using? Some of them have special requirements when you connect them, such as setting jumpers or terminating a certain way. If you have access to another computer with SCSI (not necessarily an Amiga), it wouldn't hurt to see if that computer can "see" the drives.
It's a wonderful thing when it works, and downright frustrating when it doesn't. Took me an age and a day my first go around, too. Once I got the termination right, everything was fine.
-David
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dnelsonfl wrote:
How much memory you have on the Fastlane isn't going to affect the SCSI.
It will BIG time if he has NO RAM on the Z3 & his Buster is a Rev 9. Without the Rev 11 Buster, this card will NOT access DMA correctly, but I concur, if his termination isn't right, he will have issues if using more than 1 device. Terminating the Hard Drive on a Single Device setup will be ok, though he will need to Terminate the Cable with an Active Terminator if he is using more than 1 SCSI device on the Bus. Sometimes, terminating the Last device is not always sucessful & an Active Terminator Pack on the cable itself is the only solution
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Some wide SCSI drives, esp. some IBMs I've seen, are very picky about termination: they require the upper (unused) byte to be terminated correctly, otherwise they won't transfer anything. Better use a narrow SCSI (ie 50pin) drive for testing to rule this out.
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there are some 68 to 50 pin adapters that terminate the upper 8 data lines correctly, other than that, have the 68pin drives on the ends of the bus with active termination enabled.
the other option is to only have 68/80pin devices with a 68wire ribbon cable hooking them all together. then at least the upper 8 bits are terminated, and the host adapter with a 68-50pin plug is on the lower 8 bits.
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what i need then is get a 50 to 68 pin device then get a 68 pin cable with a termination and try .
i still dont get it about the 8 bit termination can you explain more ?
thank for your time
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can you tell me the jumpers for the fastlane if i am using in internals devices ?
thank for your time
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This explains why I couldn't get my Z3 to see a
hard drive. Someone was kind enough to sell me
the 8.5 Rom chip for it and I have a file that's
called z3-8.5rom. How would I go about flashing
the Rom after I install the 8.5 rom chip? Is
it similar to the way you flash an MKIII? Thanks.
Bob Reising
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BR wrote:
This explains why I couldn't get my Z3 to see a
hard drive. Someone was kind enough to sell me
the 8.5 Rom chip for it and I have a file that's
called z3-8.5rom. How would I go about flashing
the Rom after I install the 8.5 rom chip? Is
it similar to the way you flash an MKIII? Thanks.
Bob Reising
Those chips are EPROMs, not flash. You'll need a EPROM programmer.
But if the chip was sold to you as a 8.5 rom, then it most likely is already programmed.
-Paul
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@SIR-GERMAN:
68-pin drives are so called Wide SCSI drives, compared to 50-pin drives which are Narrow SCSI drives. The difference is that the Wide SCSI drives have a 16-bits wide databus, while the Narrow SCSI drives have a 8-bit databus.
Like all I/O-signals on the SCSI-bus, the extra 8-bits on the Wide SCSI drives, usually called the upper Byte needs to be terminated.
So, if you attach a Wide SCSI drive (68-pin) to a Narrow SCSI bus (50-pin) using a 50->68pin adapter that doesn't terminate this upper Byte, it will in most likely cause the drive to to malfunction as those signals (the upper Byte)then will be in an undefined state (the drive doesnt know if they are ones or a zeroes).
Check this (http://www.scsita.org/aboutscsi/SCSI_Termination_Tutorial.html) page for more information.
/Patrik
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what do i have to do to fix that problem ( uper bites ) with the 68 pin devices ?
thank for your time
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SIR-GERMAN wrote:
can you tell me the jumpers for the fastlane if i am using in internals devices ?
thank for your time
Have you Not read the Manual from my earlier Links? :smack:
Z3 German PDF Manual (http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/Fastlane.pdf)
Jumper Pics - English (http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/Fastlane_jumpers.pdf)
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i did but maybe is something i am doing wrong , or another thing wich i have no idea
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Sir German,
See your Pm's.
Email this man & explain Which type of hard drive you are trying to fit. He sells Amiga stuff & has a good knowledge of getting SCSI III drives to work. As far as I am aware, he sells the 50 - 68 pin convertors & I might be barking up the wrong tree, but the type you require might need a Molex connector to it.
Do check him out tho, he's a complete Star! :-)
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what is a molex connector ?
i am going to send a email to him, thank for your pm
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@SIR-GERMAN:
To fix the problem with the upper Byte, you need a 50->68pin adaptor which terminates the upper Byte.
/Patrik
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SIR-GERMAN wrote:
what is a molex connector ?
i am going to send a email to him, thank for your pm
A "molex" connector is the type of connector you shove into the Hard drive for its Power. I dont know if the hard drive takes it's power from this gizmo as well & at the same time, I could be talking from the wrong hole. I have had no need to employ one of these devices. Mail Marcin as I know he has sold these items from his site. Tell him Charlie sez "ello" & tell him I'll be writing soon! Thanks.
Best of luck! :-)
*edit* Cr4p, just looking at his site, I can't see the adapater I was thinking about. Dont forget to mention all your problems & the advice about the upper & Lower 8 bits being addressed correctly. Some very good advice there! :-)
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where do i buy that 50->68pin adaptor which terminates the upper Byte?
thank for your time
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i thought i saw some on scsi4me (http://www.scsi4me.com) but i can't find them at the moment.
68pin drive to 50 pin adapters that terminated the upper 8 bits. grrr i can't find them at the moment...
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SIR-GERMAN wrote:
where do i buy that 50->68pin adaptor which terminates the upper Byte?
thank for your time
Hmm, without wanting to appear rude, it would appear you have a small amount of knowledge regarding the issues you are experiencing & despite lots of usefull help here, you still appear to be flapping around in the wind.
This Item will allow a 68Pin SCSI Drive to connect to a 50 Way Ribbon cable.
SCSI 50M-68M (http://www.efunzine.com/efnz.php?a=pro&id=156&sid=e958be6439ebbf9cae9f680762853a41)
As to it Terminating the Upper/Lower 8 Bits correctly, I don't know if this Item will do it. But as in my PM to you earlier, Email Marcin & ask him these questions regarding the 8bit termination. Point him to this thread if you are having communication issues. He speaks & writes Excellent English.
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i find this adaptador in ebay
is that the one i am looking for ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5126879820&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT
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SIR-GERMAN wrote:
i find this adaptador in ebay
is that the one i am looking for ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5126879820&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT
Yeah, probably, but if you use the Link from marcin's Website, it will only cost you $10.8199 USD instead of $24.95 USD & the Postage will be alot cheaper as well.
Chill out & stop rushing around like a headless chicken because that will just burn a hole in your pocket. :crazy:
*edit* Dont forget, you will also need to put an Active Terminator on the 50 way SCSI cable.
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"the other option is to only have 68/80pin devices with a 68wire ribbon cable hooking them all together. then at least the upper 8 bits are terminated, and the host adapter with a 68-50pin plug is on the lower 8 bits."
i am going to try this one
fastlane 50 pin + 50 to 68 pin + 68 pin cable -------80 pin hardrive ----------80 pin hardrive ---------end Active Terminator
i think if i do it that way i dont have to terminated the upper 8 bit.
to use the 80 pin hd i have the connector 68to80 pin.
is that ok
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SIR-GERMAN wrote:
"the other option is to only have 68/80pin devices with a 68wire ribbon cable hooking them all together. then at least the upper 8 bits are terminated, and the host adapter with a 68-50pin plug is on the lower 8 bits."
i am going to try this one
fastlane 50 pin + 50 to 68 pin + 68 pin cable -------80 pin hardrive ----------80 pin hardrive ---------+ terminator
i think if i do it that way i dont have to terminated the upper 8 bit.
to use the 80 pin hd i have the connector 68to80 pin.
is that ok
This is strating to hurt........... :cry: :shrug: :mickeymouse: :roflmao:
Have you had a reply from Marcin yet?
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no reply yet
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Seriously, & with all respect, Kick back a Chill about this.
Your Z3 SCSI II 50 way Ribbon cable will need terminating in accordance with the number & type of SCSI devices you have attatched to it. If you are going to confuse matters by adding SCSI III devices to SCSI II Controllers, you will need to terminate the SCSI III devices Upper/Lower 8 bit addresses through the Converters you attatch to the SCSI III Devices in order to get the SCSI II controller to talk to them with the correct Protocols, but ONLY when you have terminated the SCSI II Controller correctly. This can change depending on what type of SCSI devices you have on the BUS.
SCSI is a complex protocol to terminate properly. Normally, more than 1 SCSI device on ANY type of SCSI bus (1, 2 or 3),
then the SCSI standard says you have to terminate the LAST device in the SCSI chain with an Active terminator.
I have had a scenario with 2 SCSI drives and an Archive 250Mb SCSI Tape Streamer on the end of the Bus. If I put termination on the SCSI Bus (the cable), the tape streamer would NOT fucntion & that was on an Octogon SCSI card with RAM.
SCSI in the real world does NOT always conform to SCSI Standards & a guy I know as a Systems Manager on UNIX will confirm what I'm saying here.
Some of this stuff with SCSI is a "suck-it-and-see" scenario. Give Marcin chance to reply & see where you go from there!
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i will dont worry , i did not buy anything yet , i am just waiting . thank for your time
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You are more than welcome, everyone replying on this thread is trying to help you, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
:-)
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Sir-German;
Any news or advances for you yet?
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i got from ebay a 80 to 50 pin adaptador with the upper bit termination and i did not work .;
i guess is a problem with the scsi hardrive so
does anyone can tell me a good scsi hardrive that will work with the fastlane for sure
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Sir-German, are you conversant with SCSI Protocols & how to set SCSI configurations up?