Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Martin_Lee on March 18, 2006, 06:56:59 PM
-
Its hard to get the overpriced out dated Amiga hardware, so why cant we just have it run on other PPC hardware?
Id buy a copy for my Mac
-
Take a look at forums on amigaworld.net to learn more about current OS4 hardware situation.
-
Politics.
-
Take a look at forums on amigaworld.net to learn more about current OS4 hardware situation.
...and make sure to take some antidepressants before reading. You could develop a desire for committing suicide. :-P
-
But Macs are not PPC! :lol:
There are lots of reasons. Lack of documentation of the Mac PPC hardware, licencing issues, politics, fear of piracy, ...
Try a search of the forums here and at AW.net.
-
Martin_Lee wrote:
Its hard to get the overpriced out dated Amiga hardware, so why cant we just have it run on other PPC hardware?
Id buy a copy for my Mac
This question has been asked a million times.
Amiga Inc want to make money from hardware without actually making or selling any.
So, they restrict the machines on which they will allow OS4 to run to those companies who agree to pay a license fee for each piece of hardware sold.
Apple will not pay a licence fee, hence you will never see OS4 running on your Mac. Genesi won't pay either a license fee either, so you won't see OS4 running on a PegasosII, Efika, or anything else.
Amiga Inc have doing their level best to kill AmigaOS and anything to do with the Amiga computer since they bought the name, and to all intents and purposes they have succeeded. The user base is now probably 10% of what it was when they took over 6 years ago.
You can either email Apple and ask them to pay some money to Amiga Inc and start bundling Macs with AmigaOS, or you can email Amiga and ask them to lift the licensing restrictions. It is likely that neither will even bother to reply.
-
ts hard to get the overpriced out dated Amiga hardware, so why cant we just have it run on other PPC hardware?
The remaining Amiga companies are stupid, they would rather sell damn expensive hardware with a OS to a small fan base than port the OS to hardware what millions of people use.
Anything is better than a OS with no hardware.
-
Savan wrote:
ts hard to get the overpriced out dated Amiga hardware, so why cant we just have it run on other PPC hardware?
The remaining Amiga companies are stupid, they would rather sell damn expensive hardware with a OS to a small fan base than port the OS to hardware what millions of people use.
Anything is better than a OS with no hardware.
And no software...
Even if AmigaOS could run on Macs, who would bother with it when they have OS X with hundreds of times more features and thousands of times more software applications.
People may install AmigaOS and boot into it on occasion out of curiosity, then boot back into OS X to get some real work done or play a game that isn't from the last century, but switching between the two just serves to highlight AmigaOS' deficiencies.
A computer is a tool, you use the tool which is right for the job. The problem is, AmigaOS simply has nothing to offer any more. In the past people didn't run Amigas just because of the OS. They used Amigas because of the software - they had Video toasters, they ran Lightwave or Imagine, Vista Pro, DPaint, they played games etc. All the software that was better than the equivalent on other machines at the time. None of this applies any more.
Maybe some will be happy to sit and customise their Workbench screen all day and wonder at the marvels of watching two MPEGs and playing an MP3 at the same time, but to normal users, who actually need their machine to do something useful, OS4 is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
-
Lando wrote:
...OS4 is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
At least you could eat the chocolate fireguard! Perhaps OS4 and Amiga Inc should be submitted here (http://www.thechoccies.com)? :-)
- Ali
-
There was an announcement in 2005 that AmigaOS 4 had been ported to PowerPC 405. There is no detail / information about the hardware, only the type of the CPU.
I do not know if this statement is true or just a hoax/scam/vaporware.
-
jejejejee
humpaa answer was real funny but right
some posts here are depresives
I think it's time to change and depresive ppl must be banned
and my opinion about that OS4 is that is pure crap
I don't care if ppc or mac or intel
if anyone here believe that os 4 will be useful or good maybe also believes in santa claus
I agree with Lando when says that the miggy OS is obsolete nowdays
I enjoy my A1200 and winuae and I play classic games
Im expert amiga user since long time ago and for good news only wait for new WinUAE releases
and...I think that WinUAE is more powerful than any amiga and is the best emulator on any platform
and
I think that the future of the miggy will be WInUAE
bye Laser
-
Laser wrote:
I think it's time to change and depresive ppl must be banned
Yeah, just ban all the realistic people so the rest of us can kid ourselves :roll:
Laser wrote:
and my opinion about that OS4 is that is pure crap
Can you explain why you think that?
Laser wrote:
I agree with Lando when says that the miggy OS is obsolete nowdays
Why are you using it then?
Laser wrote:
and...I think that WinUAE is more powerful than any amiga and is the best emulator on any platform
I think that the future of the miggy will be WInUAE
bye Laser
Yeah bye....
--
moto
-
Even if AmigaOS could run on Macs, who would bother with it when they have OS X with hundreds of times more features and thousands of times more software applications.
A rather odd comment, don't you think. Why does anyeone bother buying extremely epensive hardware to run AOS4 at all? Because it is what they want to do! Or maybe you meant people outside the Amiga community? Well, at least they would be able to TRY OUT the OS, unlike now, when no hardware is available.
If it was adapted (a port wouldn't exactly be needed) to other PPC-platforms or even a regular port to x86, of course people would go for those alternatives instead because it would be CHEAPER.
I am pretty confident that if something doesn't happen soon the little that's left of the Amiga will vanish into thin air. Not making the OS available for other hardware than the A1 (not counting the PowerVixxen or the Amy here, because in all fairness they haven't been released yet and the updates concerning their upcoming releases are everything but frequent).
-
I agree that amiga inc arent doing us any favours at all.
theyre making a joke out of the amiga name with their stupid little games for amigaanywhere
Id say if youre not already supporting AROS then you should be! (this isnt meant to be trollish)
-
Face it, the commercial viability of OS4 is zero. Let us set aside for the moment of Eyetech contract for Amigas with Amiga Inc. A1 sales prove there is no viable market left. Peg sales reaffirm the market is not viable.
Cut back to Eyetech, they have a contract for AmigaOnes. If Amiga under cuts Eyetech with a new contract, I wouldn't doubt Eyetech would take it to court asking for compensation. I do question if Eyetech has ever turned over a royality check yet to either Amiga Inc or Hyperion from earlybird sales. Regardless if Eyetech saw a profit out of those sales considering some retailers reportedly stiffed Eyetech.
Stick a f0rk in OS4, it's done. Instead of whining about OS4 not being ported (it won't), you would be better off looking at alternatives or working on improving your native machine and it's OS. :roll:
Dammy
-
dammy wrote:
I wouldn't doubt Eyetech would take it to court asking for compensation.
..snip...
Regardless if Eyetech saw a profit out of those sales considering some retailers reportedly stiffed Eyetech
Hmm, didn't Coder mention a week or 2 ago on Amigaworld.net that Eyetech were currently in the middle of legal action ?
-
Dunno, I only visit AW if there is an link to a AW article from another site. Otherwise, I never go there.
Dammy
-
Stick a f0rk in OS4, it's done. Instead of whining about OS4 not being ported (it won't), you would be better off looking at alternatives or working on improving your native machine and it's OS.
Well, unless you are one of the people working on OS4 your comment means nothing to me. If not, you are not the one making the decision wether or not the OS will be ported to other platforms or not. Hyperion have hinted that they wouldn't mind porting the OS, or adapting it to other PPC hardware, but in the end I guess it is very much not their decision. And, that is all what matters to me since that is pretty much all one can 'touch', factwise.
My guess is that they rather would see that they have done this with some kind of 'future' of the OS in mind, rather than just releasing the final version and then just not bother what happens. I'm having a real hard time believing you spend a couple of years making an OS, just to satisfy the needs of some people craving to see an 'impossible' revival of something that was and never will be again.
The thing is, I am not stuck with my Amiga and I am not better off looking for any other OS since I already have what I need on my PC, probably going Mac sometime in the future. My interest in OS4 strecthes as far as the fact that I want to play around with it, and support it, on anything but obsolete and unavailable hardware (which I am not going to buy, expensive as hell, second hand). I can't support something that I don't see have a future, and by sticking to the A1 and some classic Amiga PPC-cards, I don't see a future. If PowerVixxen and Amy gets released and unlike the A1 becomes unavailable after a short period of time, well, then I see something worth supporting. If OS4 will be ported to other hardware, well, then I definitely see something that is worth supporting.
But what it all comes down to is the fact that there's a limit to much I am willing to spend on my hobby.
-
Amiga Inc. should allow OS4 to be ported to PegasosII & Efika ASAP. Say what you want about Genesi but they do manage to keep hardware available and flowing to customers and developers. Hell, many developers even get their hardware for nothing. Amiga computer politics suck. It just keeps our market small.
:(
-
Argo wrote:
But Macs are not PPC! :lol:
There are lots of reasons. Lack of documentation of the Mac PPC hardware, licencing issues, politics, fear of piracy, ...
Try a search of the forums here and at AW.net.
The piracy issue is a joke. By the time piracy could be measured, there would have to be enough applications to justify the OS as the only one you need. Since Hyperion would be supplying games for sale on OS 4, assuming they are copy-protected, pirated copies of their OS could still generate revenue for them in the form of game sales. That's another way to measure piracy - let's say they sold 10 copies of their OS but 50 copies of a game for the OS...hmmm...
At it's current state, each copy of the OS could be serialized and OS updates could be made to function on registered copies only. Requiring an internet connection for validation in this day and age is not unreasonable. Anybody here of Microsoft's Genuine Advantage program?
Registering could be done by dealers at the point of sale.
If someone sells their system, an online interface on Hyperion's site could handle the licensing transfer.
Honestly, the only reason OS4 is not on another platform is EYETECH. Time to repackage it as "KickStart/Workbench PPC 1.0" and eliminate the term "Amiga OS 4.0" and the sole hardware partner from the equation as well.
I have an even more novel idea:
Make OS 4 free yet retain all rights to it. Then make money on licensed software sales. Sort of like how consoles work. Release OS 4 free on mulitple PPC platforms. Who ever wants to download the install can - for free. No applications included. Sell developer's kits. Sell software.
-
Lando wrote:
Even if AmigaOS could run on Macs, who would bother with it when they have OS X with hundreds of times more features and thousands of times more software applications.
Perhaps, but what about people with older PPC Macs where OSX will only run very slowly, if at all? There are probably many people who would buy a copy of OS4 (if it were at a reasonable price) just to play around with it on an old Mac that they no longer use. This would vastly increase the hardware base for the OS, I have to say I'd probably get a cheap PPC Mac off Ebay so I could try it.
And just think, by installing it on an old PPC Mac laptop there would finally be a laptop Amiga that doesn't need UAE :-)
-
the whola thing here is that amiga inc is choking aos4.0, their amiga users and hyperion... it looks like amiga inc is finally trying to kill everything amiga related and them self in one go.
after the aos4.0 amiga inc told hyperion they are taking over and are gonna do everything in house.. as far we have seen what amiga inc is capable of. this tell us by now that there will not be any new amiga os after aos4.0, and we wil not see any new hw to run the ao4.0 on either..
amiga inc dont want YOU!... the amiga user.. they are only intressted in mobil games and other none related amiga stuff...
all we can do is sit on the fenc and see the amiga inc choke everything... we cant do nothing, they own the licence, they own the name...
bye bye amiga, rip 2006
________
Hurt from nexium (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)
-
some very good points here
1. there is no reason why AOS4 couldnt be on macs except for:
2. Amiga inc are killing our OS
3. shouldnt we be focusing on AROS now?
-
Defender of the Faith,
well..at lest we agree on some points !
ok..I think that OS4 is pure crap cause is a fantasy for kids that will be never realesed
For the most orthodox miggy users Aros will be the best choice
and Im not think that OS 3.x is obsolete
I use that OS all days under WinUAE
I use always AMIRC cause is the best irc client on any platform... and I use ibrowse under winuae only on amiga websites like amigaorg,aminet,whdload site, and others
Im writing this text now on ibrowse under winuae under winxp
(I hate ibrowse cause it have tons of bugs but I use it anyways)
ahh...I use always Songplayer cause the sound of that mp3 player is wonderful under WinUAE
bye, Laser
-
If you want to know about Apple, check out darwin.org
the core of the OS is open source, and hundreds and even thousands of apps have already been ported.
Amiga OS 4 should release the core as open soure then others could port the software themselves. Open source is better than commercial. Why do you think Apple used it for the core of their OS. BSD Free Unix. OS4 is superior. Hyperion doesn't even answer their emails, neither does Amiga, INc. They don't talk to their customers. Apple gives free developers tools.
They make a profit because everything is open source. It allows you to have thousands of programmers at your side without paying a cent. They only thing they have to pay for is the Gui and the parts they have added on which is also mostly open source based. Objective C certainly was.
They just packaged it intelligently. Hyperion should just market the software and hell with the contract. It is an unjust one at that. I have contacted amiga inc. Silence so far. Status quo for every owner of amiga inc since Commodore Business Machines when it was a real contender run by real business men that anwered their phones and ran a professional operation. They actually made a billion a year.
I had no problems with them.
-
there is a theme recurring in this and many other theads. many people are upset at amiga inc.s handeling of everything amiga. to heck with os4 even if it is released and released with hardware. not enough of us want it anymore to make it worth it. AROS is the future os for amiga and other hardware. it runs on x86, and 68k hardware it will run on ppc hardware it is being done right now, and it has a measurable amount of respect from most of the amiga fan base, which is much more than anyone can say for amiga inc. and os4
-
I think what we need to form is a company that is run by a real amiga enthusiast and programmer that knows how to run a business. I have a copy of a letter I posted to amiga, inc.
on the technology licensing platform and a letter I am mailing priority mail to the last address I have for the amiga.
Action needs to be taken. Just complaining is for the birds. They are unresponsive. Bill Mc Ewen was not, whatever his mistakes.
He at least talked to the customers. They all missed the boat. why do you think their are affiliate programs in internet marketing. The principle is that the more people you have selling your product, they assume the marketing risk and you split the profits. A win/win situation. The way to market the amiga. Customer service is what killed Amiga, Inc. Apple provides it. Their stock is rising steadily. I hope these people from hyperion and amiga inc will read these posts like I asked them too.
-
that is what is so great about AROS. the aros team is doing this just for the love of the machine and os, and they take lots of advice for people. even if they dont take your advice they provide all you need to do whatever yourself and contribute to the effort.
what do any of us have a say in in the dev of os4.... nothing
-
So it's settled then... We the Amiga community have decided OS4/A1 is now defunct. AROS is now the way we're going. Thank you, buh-bye.
-
people keep on talking about it though. just watch the forums for every "when is os4 coming out?" there is at least one "here is anouther part of aros completed and ready for download" they just completed ati radeon drivers.btw and just before that was nvidia.
-
sure captain obvious....
________
Infants Avandia (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/avandia/)
-
i is a admiral, admiral oblivious
-
AROS is definitely the way to go. Without hardware there's no AOS4 coming out, and there's no market for overpriced hardware that might - or might not - come from Eyetech.
AROS is progressing slowly. But it is progressing.
-
Kathyone wrote:
If you want to know about Apple, check out darwin.org
the core of the OS is open source, and hundreds and even thousands of apps have already been ported.
Amiga OS 4 should release the core as open soure then others could port the software themselves. Open source is better than commercial. Why do you think Apple used it for the core of their OS. BSD Free Unix. OS4 is superior. Hyperion doesn't even answer their emails, neither does Amiga, INc. They don't talk to their customers. Apple gives free developers tools.
They make a profit because everything is open source. It allows you to have thousands of programmers at your side without paying a cent. They only thing they have to pay for is the Gui and the parts they have added on which is also mostly open source based. Objective C certainly was.
They just packaged it intelligently.
Kathy, it's not that simple. Apple spends $100 million or so a year on their OS development. MS spends several times as much.
Apple subsidizes that with millions of machine sales a year, as well as several million retail sales of the OS. MS sells 200 million copies a year, retail, and bundled.
Both companies have other software as well.
The various Amiga companies have had what? No money in, no product out.
Yes, they should repackage this to run on a Mac Mini, preferably with Intel chips.
But, even obsolete Apple hardware is much better than obsolete Amiga hardware.
-
It actually is that simple :rtfm: !!!
Open Source starts with close to nothing, just with what comes from the mind. Look at Linus Torvald's Linux. There are people making a living through the making/use or distributing of Open Source. Millions already.
It's just the stupids :-? at Commodore, GATEWAY (I'm sure I forgot one or more) and finally Amiga Inc. that never ever got it, and most probably still don't. They, my fellow Amigans, are the ones that focus on maximum gain in minimal time and all crash and burn sooner or later.
They are also the ones that unfortunately still "divide and rule" our community. This and other fora prove that time and time again. We are the ones to stop them and just let them go.
Go for the Classic Amiga's of the past (uptil OS3.9) go for Aros, or go for Pegasos with MorphOS and Linux. Just go for one of them. Let OS4 go. The {bleep}S simply don't deserve our money after testing our patience for such a long time.
I'm a happy OS3.5 user and from time to time I still invest in software or hardware and I will use it 'til the grave. I've been using MacOS for work on the side. I've started to learn Linux with Ubuntu and I hope to get aquainted with the Pegasos in the next year or so.
But there is not one hair on my head, thinking about buying A1 or OS4. We should stop quarrelling amongst ourselves, face the music and dance!
If you second me, say AYE !!!
-
AROS is not a magic bullet!
As much as I think Open Source is the way forward, there are issues that need to be thought about with AROS.
First and most importantly there needs to be a clear roadmap, is 3.1 the be-all and end all of the project? What lies beyond. (If this is already available, then I'd be greatful for someone to pass along a link)
Backward compatibility. This one will rage as long as MWB vs. Newicons I think ;-) It needs some very serious consideration. Sadly it's a reflection of our recent (and not so recent) history that we need to rely on old dead 68k stuff to make up a bulk of the software library.
AROS is not as advanced (functionality wise) as OS4/MOS. Even though 68K and x86 users probably outnumber Peg/AOS users, we would need as many on board as possible. There are a number of people out there that want nothing less than what is offered by the commercial offerings.
MORE APPS! - 'nuff said
How would a sudden rise in popularity affect AROS? For a long time now, the AROS group has been relatively small (but growing). Would a mass exodus, as seems to be suggested here, cause problems? Would you suddenly get a huge number of people all pulling in different directions? Would you start getting splintered development?
I'm glad people are activly thinking about the future direction of the platform, there's still life in it yet. Just don't want people to jump the gun.
P.S.
Matt if you are reading, I've been meaning to reply to you excelllent post on MP AROS, but I've lacked the time to do it properly. And it deserves to be replied to properly.
-
It seems to me that no one ever took AROS seriously, its like some ba**ard child hidden in the basement.
Users backed the commercial path because the potentional of quicker development and modern features. (? am I right)
But think if everyone had backed AROS and put their faith (and cash) in the Open Source model then we might have ended up with something more viable for the future
This is just my opinion on it. Im not saying Im right
But I dont think its too late.
Why is the AROS-exec forum so quiet?
Why arent more REAL amigians supporting this?
Why? :) tell me people!
-
(http://members.lycos.co.uk/dollf0rce/gfx/crap/os4-ready.jpg)
________
Bmw z9 history (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_Z9)
-
*ROFLLL*
very nice pic indeed! I love it!
I'm pretty sure, once AROS is done (whatever that means) it will develop further. OS 3.1 is an important milestone, the progress to something 3.9ish shouldn't take too long. 4.0 mainly adds portability, something AROS's had from the start. Taking AROS to 4.0+ will definitely take considerably less than the 12 years we've waited now.
-
@Martin Lee
The problem (?) with AROS is that you cant run existing 68k software on it. You must be a developer to get something out of it. One could argue is existing 68k software really useful but at least it provides something to use...
I dont think anyone consider AROS is bad or something. It just loses to WinUAE (but there is AfA).
-
i think aros is a magic bullet. there are just a few things that are needed at this point: a good hd installer among other things. backwards compatibility is really that much of a problem uae is already ported to aros and most of the apps people would need would run fine. porting software to aros is not too difficult.
i dont think it really matters too much if os4 has more functionality, aros is actively openly being developed. and it is free. open source etc. anyone can develop anything for it and it can run on just about any hardware. none of that can be said about os4.
ok maybe it isnt a magic bullet, it is however the most promising bullet ive seen in a long time. look at all the projects that have been anounced for accelerators pci, usb and stuff, they just propetuate classic hardware. which is a good thing and has kept many witht this platform for a long time. but none of them provided a real future, a real nex'gen possibility. pegasos, boxer, amigaone and a few others tried but didnt get around one unescapable fact. none of us has the capability of producing respectable hardware for a nex'gen machine on par with anything considered modern.
here is the solution: dont. let pc hardware manufacturers sink billions int hardware development and lets use their results
-
This whole situation sucks, even censorship central (Amigaworld.net) members are expressing their disgust without being moderated down.
People are pissed off, there is nowhere to turn. The damn trio has made this whole mess happen and now the end result is, the people have gone from licking dog {bleep} from the trio`s boots to turning on them.
-
The problem (?) with AROS is that you cant run existing 68k software on it. You must be a developer to get something out of it. One could argue is existing 68k software really useful but at least it provides something to use...
To run 68K apps, you have to use EUAE. Is that a bad thing? There is a bounty (http://www.thenostromo.com/teamaros/bounty_details_7.html) for AROS UAE intergration. It can use more $ or some developer to take on the bounty. To most of the current AROS Devs, intergration is of low priority because they are more focused on native coding and EUAE is already ported.
Dammy
-
@dammy
EUAE still loses on about everything to WinUAE and editing text files in UAE is not funny (because your favorite text editor is not available and native offerings are crap).
When I moved to Pegasos I copied contents of my Amiga HD to Pegasos and continued using my favorite programs and tools (had to delete some). I could continue using system I was used to and it certainly makes it easier.
-
@ c64_d0c
Are ye gonna upload that picture to AW.net?
;-)
Go on! you know it makes sense!
-
Martin_Lee wrote:
Its hard to get the overpriced out dated Amiga hardware, so why cant we just have it run on other PPC hardware?
Id buy a copy for my Mac
Because Amiga INC wont let anyone got a license. A few hardware manufactors did actually contact amiga inc in the purpose of trying to buy a license, but they either did not get any response or amiga inc werent willing to go with the terms.
There are 2 hardware manufactors that claim they are making new hardware that will run OS4, but neither of them have answered the questions regarding licensing issues.
Hyperion also say that they want 20k euros for the porting job, but they say there are other legal issues that will be in the way even if you cough up those 20 grands. :-(
-
Here is a better one.
(http://static.flickr.com/36/115777158_80ab2e85eb.jpg)
-
@ humppa
Haha, nice one too!